Banned
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,603
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[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Will,
I have stated our position on religion. I will state it again: We are a racial organization, not a religious organization. I would type it a hundred times for you if I thought it would make it any clearer. We do not “soften our position...”
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I'll stipulate to that. Of course WR doesn't soften a position that it never took, except that WR states that it won't unnecessarily offend Xians. We certainly wouldn't want to go out on a limb and offend people.
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Maybe you are right that the people of Raleigh will chase us out of town...We won’t save the world that day, nor will we be in another part of town “working with hardcore activists…to build an effective White resistance.” I must admit when you wrote that I imagined a small meeting with 4 or 5 people in a safe house. I am gladdened to learn that my mental image was incorrect and that there will be “hundreds of people of European stock.”
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"Another part of town?" You have this thing about conjuring up these mental images, Ben, making false assumptions from them, then presenting those assumptions as argument. I won't even be in North Carolina the day you participate in the clown act on Capitol Square. Anyone who is reading our little exchange here and paying halfway close attention can see how you are twisting things. You take your Chairman's words which I quoted, then ascribe them to me as quotes. That's clever. Fortunately for me, anyone can just jump up a few inches on his monitor screen and see the direct statements I quoted from your Chairman, Billy Roper. I hope you have good weather and a good crowd and good press coverage. I don't wish you anything but good luck next Saturday, but I can still disagree with your stated umbrella approach
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You must be thinking of a different ADV. In the ADV I was talking about Dr. Pierce was definitely talking about White chicken-pluckers. But I don’t want my criticism of Dr. Pierce to appear too harsh lest you think I am waging a smear campaign.
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Like Billy's harsh criticism?
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Suffice is to say that Dr. Pierce’s ADVs were brilliant and influenced thousands of people. His radio programs were the most effective propaganda we’ve had in the last 30 years and they are not to be duplicated. Certainly not by me and most certainly not by Kevin Alfred Strom, who sounds less like Dr. Pierce and more like my sister.
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Between your personal criticism of KAS and Billy's rash criticism of WLP it sure sounds like an ongoing smear campaign to me. Haven't you fellows of WR already gotten all the former Alliance members over to your ranks that you're going to get without keeping up the cheap shots? Are Pierce and Strom your enemies, or just the competition? Pierce is dead, for Christ's sake! I hope it's not Billy who writes the history of NA, or Victor. Do you criticize the Sons of Yahweh, the Klan, Aryan Nations or the NSM, or any other pro-Whites groups that you use, or do you only reserve such harsh criticism for Pierce and Strom and Pierce loyalists who disagree with your umbrella strategy?
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Yes, I did state in clear language that I would prefer to see our people appear in suits and ties at demonstrations. It was also in clear language that this was as opposed to traditionalist Klan robes and not directed towards working class people, or “White chicken-pluckers,” who can’t afford a suit and tie.
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There you go again, using Billy's quotes. I never used such language.
Ben, You do realize that you'll be deliberately standing next Saturday with people in KKK robes, don't you? I can't remember the last time anyone demonstrated in Raleigh in KKK robes. I'd venture to guess it's been twenty years or more, before the White Patriot Party's heyday in the mid-1980's. They were all from around here, wore camoflage fatigues and berets and presented an impressive image. The last fellow who paraded around in Raleigh in a full, homemade Nazi uniform with swastika armband and Nazi flag was none other than "Weird Harold" Covington. He can't even come into North Carolina without being arrested for outstanding criminal warrants, yet you, who prefer to see your people appear in suits and ties will be standing proudly with these uniformed Nazis from somewhere up north.
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Therefore it would be faulty logic for you to conclude that my comments contradicted Chairman Roper’s comment, which you claimed was “more dishonesty,” but was instead a simple statement of fact. Thank you for repeating the message of the top recruiter and the top organizer in our movement. It is profound enough to be repeated again: “It turns out that rejecting and ridiculing Christians and frowning at working-class men who don’t own a suit and tie has proven to be a disastrous recruitment strategy…”
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Whatever. I'm curious; when did Billy Roper crown himself as "the top recruiter and the top organizer in our movement?" You can type that a hundred times, as you say, but Billy's continued boasts and self-importance will leave more than a few old-timers snickering. Such hubris might even turn off the newbies. How in the world do you justify such a claim?
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Your comments about accepting jews and queers was gibberish.
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You mean this: "If all we want to attract is 'decent people of good European stock' we have to look no further than the Presbyterian Church or the Republican party, right? These outfits are full of decent folks of good European stock who might fit under your umbrella of White unity, if ONLY you'll compromise your principles just a little more, like not being so racist and intolerant, or make room for the decent queers, the ones of good European stock, that is, and the decent Jews; be just a little more Xian. Where exactly do you folks at WR draw the line, Ben, in an effort to get more warm bodies? I like where Dr. Pierce drew the line, whether you and Billy and Vic and Erich do or not."
Dubiously dismissing one's opponent's point in a debate as gibberish, without counterargument, could be seen as the last refuge of the side who is losing the debate. It's those watching the debate who keep score, not the debaters.
Our debate adresses the relative merit of WR's short-term, fast-growth big tent approach v. the more exclusive, more deliberate, long-term, slow-growth approach as advocated by Dr. Pierce; the latter, I propose, being the more honest and more likely to attract the best people. The interesting twist to our debate is that the new NA Chairman, Erich Gliebe, has adopted the same approach as has WR, the umbrella strategy, abandoning what was established and followed so carefully by NA's founder, Dr. Pierce, for over 30 years.
If WR's tent gets much bigger, Ben, you'll be like the Council of Conservative Citizens; they accept Jews and queers. They're not very comfortable being seen arm-in-arm with robed Kluckers and uniformed Nazi, however.
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