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Old April 4th, 2007 #61
Slamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Patriot View Post
So there goes that whole myth that the Jews were stuffed into Poland and the Allies didn't bomb Polish Factories.
Just curious - who claims that the allies did not bomb Poland?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocau...bextracts.html

Extracts from the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, summarizing 15th Air Force bombing attacks in August and September 1944 on Oswiecim (Auschwitz)


SYNTHETIC OIL PLANT OF I.G. FARBEN AT OSWIECZIM NEAR KRAKOW, POLAND


What myth are you referring to?
 
Old April 4th, 2007 #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Just curious - who claims that the allies did not bomb Poland?
What myth are you referring to?
Treblinka, Poland - the mass graves were the result of deaths from Russian bombing.

Jewish holocausters claim that the deaths at Treblinka were not caused by bombing.
Quote:
"Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location - two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater"

Soviet Archives, Polish Archives: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html
See footnote [1]

Treblinka.

305 bodies were found at Treblinka, no more. Cause of death -- Allied bombing of Treblinka (Soviet).


Chapter III:
Investigations, Camp Plans, Statistics

1. Soviet Investigations and Forensic Examinations

In the middle of August 1944, the 65th Soviet Army conquered the region around Treblinka. The Military Examining Judge of the Military Office of Prosecution First Lieutenant of Justice Jurowski went to work immediately, supported by other officers - Major Kononjuk, Major V.S. Apresjan, First Lieutenant F.A. Rodionov, Major M.E. Golovan, and Lieutenant N.V. Kadalo - and carried out investigations between August 15 and 23 on the grounds of the camps Treblinka I and Treblinka II.

He furthermore questioned witnesses: Samuel Rajzman, Lucjan Puchała[, Marianna Kobus, Stanisław Zdonek, Barbara Zemkiewicz, Józef Pukaszek, Stanisław Kon, Miecz[font=Times New Roman]ysław Anyszkiewicz[SIZ, Tadeusz Kann, Franciszek Wesolowski, Max Lewit, and Kazimierz SkarzySIński.[2]

On August 22 and 23, the investigatory committee, accompanied by local Polish officials, went to Treblinka in order to carry out investigations on the spot. Three mass graves and 13 individual graves were discovered by this. The exhumation of the bodies yielded the following picture:
1. Grave 10 m × 5 m × 2 m in dimension, with 105 bodies, which had been buried in layers of 5 to 7 each. Upon each layer of bodies, a layer of earth 45 to 50 cm thick had been piled.[3]

2. Grave 10 m × 5 m × 1.9 m in dimension, with 97 bodies in layers of 5 to 6 bodies respectively, with interposing layers of earth 50 cm thick.[4]

3. Grave 10 m × 5 m × 2.5 m in dimension, with 103 bodies in layers of 5 to 6 each, with 50 cm of earth lying between.[5]
On August 24, 1944, a commission composed of the Soviet officers previously named as well as representatives of the local Polish authorities produced the first official report concerning the camps Treblinka I and II. With respect to Treblinka II it says there:[6]

Quote:
"The camp Treblinka II was an enormous death combine."

- Jewish propaganda
All public viewers can see that the Jews here don't provide facts and in fact lie, since when are 305 bodies buried after a bomber attack, becomes purely through JewUSSR propaganda.... "enormous".

How do 305 bodies become 700,000?

Soviets had 800 of the B-25 Mitchell bombers, they used them to bomb German armament factories in eastern Poland where Jews worked.


B-25 Mitchell


B-25 Mitchell bombing.
B-25 Mitchell bomber was supplied to the Soviets in WWII as part of the lend lease program. Of the over 9000 made, over 800 were provided to Russia. The Soviets then bombed Treblinka and Polish armament factories in which Jews worked.

Please see footnote [8]

If you want to debate the Whites, who have a higher IQ than Jews, you'll have to come to VNN.
______________________________________

References

[1] Soviet Archives, Polsih Archives: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

[2] GARF, 7021-115-11, pp. 15-43.

[3] Document n. 1, undated but clearly compiled on August 22 or 23, 1944. GARF, 7021-115-11, p. 1.

[4] Document n. 2, August 23, 1944. GARF, 7021-115-11, p. 2.

[5] Document n. 3, August 23, 1944. GARF, 7021-115-11, p. 3.

[6] Document, August 24, 1944. GARF, 7021-115-9, pp. 103-110.

[7] Treblinka: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/

[8] 800 B-25 bombers the USSR: http://www.combatfs.com/index.php?lo...s&Category=RUS
 
Old April 5th, 2007 #63
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You did not answer the question.

YOU implied there are those that claim that the allies did not bomb Poland.

Quote:
So there goes that whole myth that the Jews were stuffed into Poland and the Allies didn't bomb Polish Factories.
What myth? I want to see the myth.

I've never heard the claim the allies did not bomb Poland or Polish factories.

Please tell us who, specifically, claims the allies did not bomb Poland.


Quote:
Soviets had 800 of the B-25 Mitchell bombers, they used them to bomb German armament factories in eastern Poland where Jews worked.
What German armament factories were near Treblinka?
 
Old April 5th, 2007 #64
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The problem with the Jews is they live in a fantasy world, they want to have things both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
What German armament factories were near Treblinka?
You mean out in the forest, in the woods around (near) Treblinka?

Jews were working in the German armaments factories at Treblinka. That is the reason Treblinka was bombed, the Jews killed and the Soviets documenting the bomb craters and mass graves.

Quote:
And in another essay, Herbert notes that "the deployment of concentration camp inmates as forced labor in the Reich (especially during the final phase of the War), as well as the Head Office for Economy and Administration (… W.V.H.A.) of the S.S.”

Ulrich Herbert, University of Freiburg, “Labour and Extermination: Economic Interest and the Primacy of Weltanschauung in National Socialism,” p. 144, 148

Please see footnote [3]
On the one hand they want to be Paid for their work at Treblinka in NYC courts and on the other hand they all want Reparations from being killed at Treblinka.

Criminals are usually caught when they live in a fantasy world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post

What German armament factories were near Treblinka?
http://www.nyed.uscourts.gov/pub/rul...996/697499.pdf.

In Re HOLOCAUST VICTIM ASSETS LITIGATION (Swiss Banks)
SPECIAL MASTER’S PROPOSAL, September 11, 2000
R&O-697499.1

H - 1
SLAVE LABOR CLASS I

I.

INTRODUCTION

Otto Count Lambsdorff, who represented the German government in the recently concluded negotiations that led to the July 17, 2000 establishment of the German Foundation “Remembrance, Responsibility and the Future” (the “German Fund”) and its forthcoming payments to slave and forced laborers, remarked that “there was hardly a German company that
did not use slave and forced labor during World War II.”

1
The German Bundestag, in its preamble to the statute, clearly acknowledged that “the National Socialist State inflicted severe injustice on slave laborers and forced laborers, through deportation, internment, exploitation which in some cases extended to destruction through labor, and … that German enterprises which participated in the National Socialist injustice bear a historic responsibility and must
accept it.”

2
The Settlement Agreement, by including Slave Labor Class I, is designed to
provide compensation to certain persons who were forced to perform slave labor during the Third Reich. According to the Settlement Agreement, Slave Labor Class I consists of “Victims or Targets of Nazi Persecution who actually or allegedly performed Slave Labor for companies or entities that actually or allegedly deposited the revenues or proceeds of that labor with, or transacted such revenues or proceeds through, Releasees, and their heirs, executors,
he responses to the Initial Questionnaires also indicate that “Victims or Targets of Nazi Persecution” performed slave labor in a variety of locations throughout the German Reich and in the occupied territories.

Class Members have reported being forced to work at the
following locations, among others:

Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Birkenau, Buchenwald, Dachau, Mauthausen, Ravensbrück, Sobibor, Theresienstadt, Treblinka, the Cracow, Lodz, and Warsaw Ghettos, and ghettos in Austria, Belarus, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, and the Ukraine, among others.
http://www.fonds-ez.de/eng/about_the...ty_and_future/

http://www.claimsinfo.org/article.as...article_id=242

The reason Jews claim Terblinka was both a German war materials factory and a "death camp" is because the Jews want to claim both for working and dying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
What German armament factories were near Treblinka?
Your own Jews have filed a Class Action labor lawsuit based on H-1 Slave Labor regulations based on their work for the German war machine at Treblinka. A site which was bombed by the Russians because it was contributing to the German war effort.

Why do Jews lie so much? Well I chalk it up to their lower IQ and having to try to lie to get ahead in life. Like the Negro, the SemiteJew has a lower IQ than the White and thus is prone to crime.

The linguistic phrase to debate is: at Treblinka.

Please see footnote [4], the us.gov. official report to Congress states At Treblinka.As required by Section 704 of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2003 (as enacted in Public Law 107-228)

Take up your false claims against the other Jews who have already filed with U.S. Congress under Federal Law; Public Law 107-228.
__________________________________

References

[1] Cited in testimony of Deputy Treasury Secretary Stuart E. Eizenstat before the House Banking Committee on Holocaust Related Issues, September 14, 1999 at 6, available at: http://www.house.gov/banking/914/99see.htm.


[2] Preamble to Law on the Creation of a Foundation “Remembrance, Responsibility and Future” (“Gesetz Zur Errichtung Einer Stiftung ‘Errinnerung, Verantwortung und Zukunft’”), July 17, 2000,
informal translation prepared by the United States Embassy in Berlin, available at http://www.usembassy.de/dossiers/holocaust.

[3] Herbert, “Labor and Extermination,” at p. 144, 148. Ulrich Herbert, “Labour and Extermination: Economic Interest and the Primacy of Weltanschauung in National Socialism,” Past and Present, No. 138 (February 1993) (hereinafter, “Labour and Extermination”),

[4] Report to Congress: German Foundation "Remembrance, Responsibility, and the Future". Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs March 2005. [As required by Section 704 of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2003 (as enacted in Public Law 107-228)] http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rpt/44484.htm
 
Old April 5th, 2007 #65
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Celtic

Why do you keep avoiding the questions?

Try answering my questions rather than the ones you want to answer.

1) I want to see the myth that the allies did not bomb Poland or Polish factories. Just one published example of this will suffice. I provided proof they did so and in fact published data - you dodged like the coward you are.

2) What German armament factories were near/at Treblinka? Name of facility would suffice.

I'll give you a hint - a class action settlement in which Treblinka is mentioned as a slave labor facility does not make Treblinka an armament factory. There are lots of example of slave labor that do not include working in an armaments factory. (burning bodies, building roads, repairing rail lines, etc,)

And please do not move the goal posts in mid game - you started with a claim of the armaments industry - now you are using the German war machine as you measuring stick - the readers are not as foolish as you think.



If however you misspoke - please feel free to admit it and I will drop the questions.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #66
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The discussion with this Jew therefore begins with whether or not Jews at Treblinka were bombed. Which disproves the Jew claim that Treblinka was "an extermination camp".

ENGAGEMENTfirst post by the Jew)
#61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Just curious - who claims that the allies did not bomb Poland?
What myth are you referring to?
There is the game, the goalposts. Poland and Treblinka being bombed by Allies. You contest the fact that bombing took place, suggesting that somebody besides Jews believe Treblinka was not bombed.

ENGAGEMENT SPAM:
#63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
What myth? I want to see the myth.
I've never heard the claim the allies did not bomb Poland or Polish factories.
The argument is defined by when you took engagement - which was at the point of Poland bombing. To try to pull the discussion off track onto already proven points is seen by everybody as not substantial and lacking in ability to win the core argument -- which again was your Poland bombing denial.

PROOF:
I've proven with Germar Rudolf's site, vho.org, that the original Soviet reports show Treblinka as having been bombed. I've proven that Jews have filed claims they were working in the German war effort there.

THEN:
#65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Try answering my questions rather than the ones you want to answer.

And please do not move the goal posts in mid game - you started with a claim of the armaments industry - now you are using the German war machine as you measuring stick - the readers are not as foolish as you think.
I've also proven that Jews have claimed Forced/Slave Labor compensation at Treblinka.

1. Jews were working in the German war industry at Treblinka.

2. Treblinka was bombed.


I know you are over at the Phora now, but you have set this thread to give you e-mail warning to come back to try to sleaze your way out.



EDUCATION OF THE JEW:

DAW: Deutsche Ausrstüngs-Werke (German Arms Factories) set up in Polish work camps including Treblinka.

15th Air Force: USAF - Italy
15th AF based in Italy, repeatedly targeted three cities with factories empolying jews in Poland


Bombing Targets of 15th Air Force B-24's in Poland.
376th Heavy Bomb Group
461th Bomb Group


8th Air Force USAAF: England


Quote:
TREBLINKA -

"Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location - two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater"

Soviet Archives, Polish Archives: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #67
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Does anyone think Celtic Patriot answered either of my questions?

Quote:
1) I want to see the myth that the allies did not bomb Poland or Polish factories. Just one published example of this will suffice. I provided proof they did so and in fact published data - you dodged like the coward you are.
I am not the one claiming they did not bomb Poland - published maps of bombing campaigns proves my point not yours.

Quote:
2) What German armament factories were near/at Treblinka? Name of facility would suffice.
Still waiting for the name of the German armaments facility near Treblinka.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Does anyone think Celtic Patriot answered either of my questions?
It works like this Jewboy, you don't get to ask the questions.

What you do get to do is provide links to help VNN grow. So get started posting your Holohoax links to prove your point.

Prove it. Prove your Holocaust happened. Start off with Treblinka.

Prove your side of the debate, use your best rhetoric. Prove that the Jews who died at Treblinka did not die from Allied bombing and were killed in larger numbers, more than the 305 documented, and by German means.

It's funny how the Phora has reduced your debating skill to debate without links and sources. You have lowered your credibility.

Aircraft M.I.A. Project (AMIAP) is a group of researchers who collect information on USAAF aircraft that crashed or landed in Polish territory during the WWII (see map).

Polish MIA website tracking B-17's and B-24's shot down over Poland.
http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str147.htm



USAAF and USAF boming Targets in Poland during WW II.

The USSR Air Force repeatedly bombed Polish targets from both Italy and Britain. The DAW: Deutsche Ausrstüngs-Werke (German Arms Factories) increasing set up armament and munitions factories employing jews in the Polish city ghettos and in camps such as Treblinka.

Quote:
TREBLINKA -

"Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location - two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater"

Soviet Archives, Polish Archives: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Patriot View Post
It works like this Jewboy, you don't get to ask the questions.

What you do get to do is provide links to help VNN grow. So get started posting your Holohoax links to prove your point.

Prove it. Prove your Holocaust happened. Start off with Treblinka.

Where are all the millions of ivory teeth at Treblinka? Where is the evidence?
So you are unable to defend either statement made by you - now we know you lie at a whim to prove a point and that basically, your rhetoric is wilthout merit.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #70
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You have not answered my question. Prove that more than 305 Jews were killed at Treblinka and prove that they were killed by other means than Allied bombing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
So you are unable to defend either statement made by you - now we know you lie at a whim to prove a point and that basically, your rhetoric is wilthout merit.
You have not answered my question. Prove Treblinka killed more than the 305 dead.

Quote:
The word “Kommando” (“Kdo.”) was used to refer to groups of concentration camp prisoners assigned to a particular work detail. Innenkommandos were assigned to work inside the camps. “Außenkommandos” were assigned to work outside the camps. “External installations,” or auxiliary or sub-camps, were later built closer to the actual place where work was assigned. The term “Aussenkommando” came to mean the external installation or sub-camp itself. See Martin Weinmann, (Hgg.), Das nationalsozialistische Lagersystem (3d Edition) (Frankfurt: Zweitausendeins, 1998), at XXII.

-Treblinka

Where are all the millions of ivory teeth at Treblinka? Where is the evidence?

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question. Where are all the teeth, the hard evidence from the Jewish holocaust claims about Treblina? There is only established evidence, Primary evidence, for 305 bodies in three mass graves.

Quote:
Amtsgruppe W Wirtschaftliche Unternehmungen
Amt W IV 1 Deutsche Ausrüstungswerke GmbH

- Treblinka

Report to Congress: German Foundation "Remembrance, Responsibility, and the Future". Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs March 2005. [As required by Section 704 of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2003 (as enacted in Public Law 107-228)]

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rpt/44484.htm
Provide links, help VNN grow, abandon your time at the Phora, welcome to VNN. I'm glad we could attract you to post links here. Where is your evidence?

I'm still waiting.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #71
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Do we have a disguised Phora member here now? I know a small group of Phora "Intellectuals" from the revisionist section have been itching to take a piece out of Celtic_Patriot.

Last edited by Bill; April 6th, 2007 at 10:11 AM.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #72
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Celtic - I made no claims concerning Treblinka - I merely asked questions about your claims, thus I feel no compulsion to answer your questions.

 
Old April 6th, 2007 #73
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Oh you're "Slamin" alright 0 for 0.

Since you won't answer my questions about Treblinka, of where is your evidence, the teeth, of more than 305 dead, we will move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Celtic - I made no claims concerning Treblinka - I merely asked questions about your claims, thus I feel no compulsion to answer your questions.
It's not whether you feel compulsion or not, you simply have to.

Because if you don't and keep bumping this thread it will go up in the international rankings on search engines, with all it's data and links, and little White Kids from all over the world will be finding it and putting it into their School reports.

That is what your Phag Phora will cost you.



http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/6.html

Quote:
Chapter V:
Treblinka Trials

1. Confessions as a Basis for Historiography


In 1979, Gitta Sereny mounted a furious attack against revisionists, particularly against Arthur R. Butz. She made reference to her conversations conducted in 1971 with former Treblinka Commandant Franz Stangl, who was incarcerated in a Düsseldorf jail and who, according to her claims, had admitted the mass murders in that camp; she wrote:[476]
"Stangl is dead. But if [...] Butz [...] actually had been interested in the truth, Stangl 's wife and many others would have been at his disposal to bear witness."
Butz could have indicated in his response that G. Sereny was unable to prove what the actual statements of Stangl were, due to the lack of a taped record, but he nonetheless made an argument from an entirely different perspective:[477]

"We do not need 'confessions' or 'trials' to determine that the bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima, or the reprisals at Lidice following Heydrich 's assassination, really took place. Now, the extermination legend does not claim a few instances of homicide, but alleges events continental in geographical scope, of three years in temporal scope, and of several million in scope of victims. How ludicrous, then, is the position of the bearers of the legend, who in the last analysis will attempt to 'prove' such events on the basis of 'confessions' delivered under the fabric of hysteria, censorship, intimidation, persecution, and blatant illegality that has been shrouding this subject for 35 years. [...]
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/6.html

Appendix: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/13.html
The salon of the Phora Phags placate themselves, like dandies, with the vanity of rhetoric. We work with facts here.


Germar Rudolf, for his journal Viertelsjahrhefte für freie Geschichtsforschung (VHO)

____________________

References


[476] "The Men who whitewash Hitler," New Statesman, November 2, 1979.

[477] Butz's reply to G. Sereny was not printed in the New Statesman. Its text can be found in the lecture given by Butz in 1982 at the Conference of the Institute for Historical Review, which was published in a paper with the title "Context and Perspective in the Holocaust Controversy", reprinted in A. R. Butz, op. cit. (note 109), pp. 379-407, here p. 382.

[478] In a letter written on January 3, 1976, Kurt Franz, who continually protested his innocence, strongly denied having been camp Commandant. He wrote: "I served in Treblinka with the military rank of a Oberscharführer of the Waffen-SS responsible exclusively only for the guard detachment and with the men for the guarding of the camp. An Oberscharführer is a Technical Sergeant and not an officer!" The letter is printed in no. 44 of the Historische Tatsachen (note 105) on p. 23. Kurt Franz, who was charged with participation in the murder of 300,139 Jews, had lived in Düsseldorf under his own name up to 1959. (A. Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager..., op. cit. (note 62), pp. 44f.); therefore he obviously had a good conscience and it had never occurred to him that he could be accused of anything! Only in 1993 was he released, a gravely ill and broken man, after decades of imprisonment.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #74
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Actually, if anyone googles Celtic Patriot - this is what they get:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...and-stuff.html

Must suck to be you.
 
Old April 6th, 2007 #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
Actually, if anyone googles Celtic Patriot - this is what they get:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...and-stuff.html

Must suck to be you.
Funny, I did the same search, & came up with this.
 
Old April 30th, 2007 #76
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Backup from 4/6/07 - In your face Jew.

You have not answered my question. Prove that more than 305 Jews were killed at Treblinka and prove that they were killed by other means than Allied bombing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
So you are unable to defend either statement made by you - now we know you lie at a whim to prove a point and that basically, your rhetoric is wilthout merit.
You have not answered my question. Prove Treblinka killed more than the 305 dead.


Where are all the millions of ivory teeth at Treblinka? Where is the evidence?

We're still waiting for you to answer my question. Where are all the teeth, the hard evidence from the Jewish holocaust claims about Treblina?

Provide links, help VNN grow, abandon your time at the Phora, welcome to VNN. I'm glad we could attract you to post links here.

Since when has a few Jurors of the public decided the validity of historical events?

Do lawyers now decide History?

Lawyers and Judges are not qualified or trained to evaluate the political influence on the historical record, they are at most superficially trained in evaluating social behavior with regards to current written statutes.




Chapter V:
Treblinka Trials

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/6.html


2. West German Treblinka Trials



In a trial conducted in Düsseldorf from October 1964 to September 1965, ten persons, among them Kurt Franz who was described as the last Commandant of the camp,[478] were charged with participation in the alleged mass killing of Jews in Treblinka. Four of the defendants, Franz among them, were sentenced to life imprisonment for the collective murder of 300,000 persons and for a number of individual murders; a fifth defendant received the same punishment for the collective murder of at least 100,000 people; prison sentences of twelve, seven, six, four, and three years were imposed on five others accused for assisting in the collective murder of 300,000 or 100,000 persons, respectively.

At a further Treblinka trial, which took place from May to December 1970, likewise in Düsseldorf, only one defendant appeared before the court, namely the former SS-Hauptsturmführer and second Treblinka Kommandant Franz Stangl. The latter was sentenced to the loss of liberty for the rest of his life for the murder, committed together with others, of at least 400,000 Jews, but he died in 1971 before the German Federal Supreme Court had decided about the appeal filed by him.

At the first of these two proceedings more than 100 and at the second more than 50 witness were heard in and outside of Germany. Adalbert Rückerl, at that time Director of the Ludwigsburg Central Office for the resolution of National-Socialist crimes, documented these trials as well as those of the members of the camp staff of Bełżec, Sobibór, and Chełmno in his already mentioned book NS-Vernichtungslager im Spiegel deutscher Strafprozesse (NS extermination camps as reflected in the German criminal trials), which was published in 1977. This book cites long passages from the verdicts. In his introduction to Rückerl 's work, Martin Broszat, Director of the Munich Institute for Contemporary History, wrote, see [479]
"Without wishing to anticipate an historical investigation and assessment of the role of German justice system in the prosecution of NS crimes, one thing can be maintained already today to be the result, also of the activity of the Central Office [in Ludwigsburg]: the significance of the extensive prosecutorial and judicial investigations, which began in this area at the end fifties in the Federal Republic [of Germany], cannot be measured just by their - often low - quota of sentences. In particular regarding investigations and proceedings dealing with mass killings of Jews [...], the systematic clearing up of the aggregate of crimes had a general public and historical relevance extending considerably beyond the criminal prosecution. [...] Although the fact of the 'Final Solution to the Jewish Question' is noted in nearly all history and school books about the NS period, the individual modalities of this horrible event have scarcely been systematically documented up until now. Their methodical concealment by the administrative departments of the regime and the thorough eradication of the traces after the conclusion of the operations, above all in the carefully hidden large extermination camps in the occupied Polish territories, have made it difficult or have hindered an exact reconstruction of the events. Despite an unfavorable point of departure, the years-long painstaking work of the judicial investigation have finally led to broad clarity of the facts and connections."
First of all, it ought to be stressed that Broszat 's claim that "the large extermination camps in the occupied Polish territories" were "carefully hidden" is blatant nonsense. Auschwitz was situated in an industrial zone swarming with civilian workers, and the prisoners constantly were coming into contact with them; Majdanek directly bordered on the city of Lublin, so that from their houses at the edge of the city people were able to look into the camp; in Treblinka, the farmers cultivated their fields almost directly up to the fencing of the camp, and the brisk trade, already described by former inmates, between the prisoners and the civilian population[480] guaranteed a steady flow of information from the camp into the outside world.

Let us move on to the "historical relevance" of the trials, as emphasized by M. Broszat. When he writes that the "individual modalities of the horrible events" have "scarcely been systematically documented up until now," but "the years-long painstaking work of the judicial investigation" have "led to a broad clarity of the facts and connections," then this means in plain words that the historiography up until then had not investigated the events in Treblinka and the other 'pure extermination camps,' but had left that task up to the Law.

Now, it is by no means the purview of the judge to write history; he has, instead, to make a finding about the guilt or innocence of a defendant. The mission of the judge is therefore a fundamentally different one from that of the historian.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/6.html

The question to ask yourself is: "Lawyers don't have History degrees, do they?"

Lawyers, Judges, study and memorize the legal statutes, they do not read, analyze and evaluate historical sources, which often evolve around the evidence of writing and the way in which written history is recorded -- especially with regards to politics of the time.


________________________________________

References

[478] In a letter written on January 3, 1976, Kurt Franz, who continually protested his innocence, strongly denied having been camp Commandant. He wrote: "I served in Treblinka with the military rank of a Oberscharführer of the Waffen-SS responsible exclusively only for the guard detachment and with the men for the guarding of the camp. An Oberscharführer is a Technical Sergeant and not an officer!" The letter is printed in no. 44 of the Historische Tatsachen (note 105) on p. 23. Kurt Franz, who was charged with participation in the murder of 300,139 Jews, had lived in Düsseldorf under his own name up to 1959. (A. Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager..., op. cit. (note 62), pp. 44f.); therefore he obviously had a good conscience and it had never occurred to him that he could be accused of anything! Only in 1993 was he released, a gravely ill and broken man, after decades of imprisonment.

[479] Adalbert Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager..., op. cit. (note 62), pp. 7f.

[480] See Introduction: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/6.html (Excerpt: "The untenable nature of an historical picture, which is based merely upon confessions of alleged offenders and eyewitness narratives, could hardly be more glaringly demonstrated! In what follows we will explain how the legal systems of the Federal Republic of Germany and of Israel have sought to strengthen the traditional image of Treblinka by means of trials, at which confessions by alleged offenders and eyewitness narratives comprised the sole basis of evidence.")
 
Old May 1st, 2007 #77
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Where did the thread go?
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Just as modern mass production requires the standardization of commodities, so the social process requires standardization of man, and this standardization is called equality.
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Old May 1st, 2007 #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ural View Post
Where did the thread go?
The Jews couldn't win an argument to hide History, so they tried to destroy it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
So you are unable to defend either statement made by you - now we know you lie at a whim to prove a point and that basically, your rhetoric is wilthout merit.
It's not about rhetoric jewboy, it's about facts.

Treblinka was examined by neutral party forensic teams, which are listed below.
The bomb craters may be evidence of a munitions factory at Treblinka (from which the Jews revolted due to the danger of bomb assembly), or Allied bombing, either way it shows Jews were killed by bombs and not gas chambers.
1. Primary Soviet study Treblinka (forensics 305 bodies, bomb craters, no gas chambers)
2. Leuchter
3. Rudolf
4. Ball

MICHAEL TREGENZA - Contradicts himself and Reverses his earlier claims.
- Tregenza, Michael, "Christian Wirth: Inspekteur der SS-Sonderkommandos 'Aktion Reinhard', in: Zeszyty Majdanka, Vol. XV, 1993.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/16.html
Michael Tregenza has alredy been discredited

Michael Tregenza misidentifies photos.

"It's clearly visible how primitive the fence was. The extermination camp should only remain until all Jews of its catchment area would have been exterminated. According to Michael Tregenza this fence belonged to the Belzec labour camp. The man wearing a hat could be the Romany "king" Kwiek."
http://forum.codoh.info/viewtopic.php?p=26899

Michael Tregenza contradicts himself and revises his earlier claims.

Chapter II: Origins and Development of the Official Historical Version, p. 35
2. Revisions and Contradictions by Michael Tregenza, p. 41
http://vho.org/GB/Books/b/
HOLOCAUST Handbook Series, vol. 9:
Carlo Mattogno:
Bełżec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History
Translated by Henry Gardner
Chicago (Illinois): Theses & Dissertations Press,
Imprint of Castle Hill Publishers, June 2004
ISBN: 1-59148-008-6
ISSN: 1529-7748

© by Carlo Mattogno

Distribution Australia/Asia: Peace Books, PO Box 3300, Norwood, 5067, Australia
Distribution Rest of World: Castle Hill Publishers
UK: PO Box 118, Hastings TN34 3ZQ
USA: PO Box 257768, Chicago, IL 60625

-----------------------

JAN MARKIEWICZ - Inconsistencies with Scientific Procedure.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/cq/leuchter.html

SCIENTIFIC PROCEDURE NOT ADHERED TO

The Polish (Merkiewicz, et al) study did not conform to establshed scientific fact and it's chemical findings are in direct contradiction to the following laboratories:
  • Alpha Analytical Laboratories
  • Institute Fresenius
  • Institue for Environmental and Pollutant Analysis
Lack of Cyanide binding in white plaster samples:
My test samples 19a and 19b show that samples that show no blue dyeing can also have high levels of cyanide. They came from the Birkenau delousing chamber BW 5b. Both samples were gray to brown-gray but had cyanide levels of 1860 mg CN-/kg in the outer layer of plaster and 3880 mg CN-/kg in a deeper layer.

It must be kept clear that the analytic results of the Cracow scientists are in no way reconcilable with the data from Alpha Analytical Laboratories, the Institute Fresenius and the Institue for Environmental and Pollutant Analysis. Since one cannot assume that these three renowned institutes would use a nonsense method to measure the same nonsense for decades, the error must lie in the analytic method of the Polish scientists which is completely unusable to professional chemical analysts and which cannot detect the large part of cyanide content. It would be advisable for the Polish scientists to allow their samples from the delousing chambers to be analyzed by an independent institute using the DIN procedure, and it would be best if they would not mention the source of the material in order to guarantee the independence of the analysis.
Germar Rudolf requests that they have an independent laboratory analyze their samples. They, Merkiewicz, et al, have not done so.

POLITICAL BIAS

You write that the expressions that you have taken from Exterminationist publications on the Revisionists were necessary to enable the Polish reader to understand the purpose of your work. According to this, the purpose of your research is to combat the presumed tendency of Revisionists to white-wash the Hitler system. You also want to prevent that the onus on the Hitler system might be mitigated by certain research results. This is not a scientific intention, but solely a political one.

If you should wish to enlighten the uninformed Polish reader on this topic it would have been better, for example, to discuss the following points for him, so that he could understand the problem of detection of cyanide in masonry:

1. From the '20's of this century Zyklon B was the most often used insecticide against all kinds of pests (lice, bedbugs, corn beetles, wood-borers).

2. In the 2nd World War Germany and her allies consumed many thousands of tons of Zyklon B in order to combat these pests in military as well as civilian facilities (pest control in barracks, food storage areas, ships, trains, prisoner-of-war camps, work camps and concentration camps).

3. In KZ Auschwitz devastating typhus plagues occurred often. This disease is carried by the louse. To combat the louse the prisoners' barracks and all other habitable places in Auschwitz as well as all prisoner's belongings including their clothing were repeatedly deloused with Zyklon B.

4. The Auschwitz Lager, the only one in which it is claimed that there was mass killing with Zyklon B, did not receive markedly more Zyklon B relative to its size than other camps. The established research takes that to mean that even here 95% to 98% of all Zyklon B deliveries were used for harmless delousing purposes.

5. In Auschwitz the SS spent many million Reichsmarks (many millions of DM by today's values) to erect up-to-date facilities for pest-control and prevention of epidemics - unfortunately first in 1943, so that the previously devastating typhus plagues claimed tens of thousands of victims.
This basic knowledge is absolutely necessary for the reader in order that he can correctly evaluate the significance of Zyklon B. Today all we hear about this agent is that in Auschwitz it was exclusively or principally used for killing people. Naturally, viewed from this distorted angle the detection of small traces of cyanide in the morgue-cellar 1st of crematorium 2nd in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the supposed gas-chamber - which I have found not to be reproducible -, is taken as evidence that people were killed there.

It is a fact that even with the Exterminationist premise of a 98% use of Zyklon B for pest control there is a probability of just 98% that the traces of cyanide that we find today come from simple pest control operations - apart from any quantitative considerations that I will not review here. The use of Zyklon B in Auschwitz does not in itself signify killing of people, although you have portrayed it that way in your article.

If you would like to enlighten the Polish reader, I would like to ask you to explain this one thing, how Zyklon B could have come into morgue-cellar 1st of crematorium 2nd in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the supposed gas-chamber. The witnesses describe three or four insertion hatches in the roof of the cellar. It should have been obvious to you from your researches in the ruins of this cellar that in the roof of this cellar of the supposedly most-intensively operated killing gas-chamber of the 3rd Reich, which still holds together, those holes are not there. On this point one must concede to Prof. Faurisson when he says, "No holes, no Holocaust!" See footnotes [1][2][3].

No reply ever received from JAN MARKIEWICZ et al.
____________________________________

References


[1] The analytic results of Leuchter's and Rudolf's samples from Auschwitz were confirmed later by J. C. Ball: Ball, Der Ball-Bericht, Samisdat Publishers, 206 Carlton Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5A 2L1 Canada 1993.


{2] An Engineering Report on the alleged Execution Gas Chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, Poland, Samisdat Publishers, 206 Carlton Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5A 2L1 Canada 1988, 195pp.; in German: Leuchter, Der erste Leuchter Report, Samisdat Publishers, 1988; british edition: Leuchter, The Leuchter Report, Focal Point Publications, London 1989, 67 pp.

[3] G. Rudolf, Das Rudolf Gutachten, Cromwell Press, London 1993, obtainable from CHP, PO Box 118, Hastings TN34 3ZQ, United Kingdom (DM 35); cf. also: E. Gauss, Vorlesungen über Zeitgeschichte, Grabert, Tübingen 1993; G. Rudolf and E. Gauss, in: E. Gauss (ed.), Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte, Grabert, Tübingen 1994.
 
Old May 3rd, 2007 #79
Celtic_Patriot
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Backup from 4.10.06 Right Back in your Face Jew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin View Post
NOt sure what that last part means, but yes, Leuchter's report is dead.

The Leuchter Report: Sustained

German engineer, Wolfgang Schuster (Dipl.Ing.), pointedly defended the validity of Leuchter's findings against the criticisms of French pharmacist Jean-Claude Pressac in a five-page essay published in the German quarterly journal Deutschland in Geschichte und Gegenwart (Tuebingen, June 1991).
 
Old May 4th, 2007 #80
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Celtic,

How could Leuchter be an engineer in Missouri? Did you read the application?

http://pr.mo.gov/professionalenginee...tion-forms.asp


EXAMINATION APPLICANTS

Please answer the following questions before completing an application form.

Do you hold a Bachelor of Science degree in engineering
accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, Inc. (ABET)? An engineering technology degree is not acceptable.
Have you taken and passed the Fundamentals of Engineering Examination?
Have you acquired at least four (4) years of satisfactory engineering experience following the date you received your ABET accredited Bachelor of Science in engineering degree?
If you answered “no” to any of the above questions, call the Board office, (573) 751-0047.

------------

Leuchter's education is in History.

So the question remains, how can someone who is not an Engineer produce an Engineering report?

------

If Wolfgang Schuster and Lindsey support him, produce their reports for review.
 
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