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July 4th, 2011 | #21 |
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Zeth, I dont give a flying fuck what you think.
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July 4th, 2011 | #22 |
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July 4th, 2011 | #23 |
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woop
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July 4th, 2011 | #24 |
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July 4th, 2011 | #25 |
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Are you Jewish, Zeth?
You seem to believe that if a rabbi writes something, we should view it as important, and authoritative, as you certainly do. Why is that? What connections do you have to the Jews that they are so important to you? Anyways, these folks say something very different, half way down the page, that his name was concealed. What they say makes sense, what you say doesn't. So there you go. Your mission was not accomplished. You have failed. Miserably. Whether there is a god or not, doesn't matter. The debate regarding gods has gone on millenia. It has nothing to do with our struggle. http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud1.htm
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July 4th, 2011 | #26 |
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Wow, that's great, Hugh.
Now, do you have any arguments for why you think Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud? Nah, I didn't think so. |
July 5th, 2011 | #27 | |
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the right jew?
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July 5th, 2011 | #28 |
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The tragedy for Zeth is that long after Zeth is dead no one will ever wonder if he really existed or not, because no one will care to remember poor little Zeth, he's just not important enough, but people will be still talking about Jesus (whether he really existed or not) until the end of time.
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July 5th, 2011 | #29 |
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Well, so far I haven't heard any arguments from the Christian conspiracy theorists about why they think Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud. I also notice that none of them have posted any comments in the three other threads I've created proving that Jesus is a Jewish literary myth. Why is that? This particular thread here isn't even about the Jesus myth theory, yet it is attracting all the VNN resident Yahweh worshipers for some reason. Kind of strange.
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July 5th, 2011 | #30 |
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R. Yochanan is saying that Balaam had tremendous potential and started out as a true prophet of G-d. However, he turned to evil and in the end of his life became a sorcerer (i.e. user of black magic).
That sounds like Darth Vader. |
July 5th, 2011 | #31 | |
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July 5th, 2011 | #32 |
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I wouldn't be surprised if that's where George Lucas originally got the idea.
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July 6th, 2011 | #33 | |
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Quote:
The article I linked to lists very clearly where in the Talmud Jesus is mentioned. You simply evade and deny. You also evade the fact that the passages in the Talmud referring to Jesus originally were later censored to avoid Christian backlash. I'm not arguing with you, just stating what my sources such as the ADL, the Talmud, Jewish encyclopedia and encyclopedia Judaica say. You are arguing that these sources are wrong, because, well, because you read an article. Do you know where you are? From the Encyclopedia Judaica http://www.galegroup.com Activate cookies first, then copy and paste http://go.galegroup.com/ps/retrieve....2587502546#378 or http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...3_0_02546.html Both of these traditions were originally brought in the Babylonian Talmud, but they were eliminated in part from later editions as a result of Christian censorship, for reasons that will be made clear immediately. The later printed texts of TB Shabbat 104b read as follows: "R. Eliezer said to the Sages: Isn't it true that Ben Sṭara brought witchcraft out of Egypt by marking on his flesh? They said to him: He was an idiot, and one does not bring proofs from idiots". Here the sugya ends in the later printed editions. The continuation of the sugya, as represented by all manuscripts and the earliest printed text, reads as follows: "[Was he] the son of Sṭara (or: Sṭada)? Wasn't he rather the son of Pandira! Rav Ḥisda said: Sṭara was [his mother's] husband; Pandira was [his mother's] lover. [But his mother's] husband was Papos the son of Judah! Rather, his mother was Sṭara (or Sṭada), his father was Pandira. [But] his mother was Mary the hairdresser (magdala)! Rather [she was called Sṭada] because of what they say in Pumbedita: She cheated (saṭa da) on her husband." The name "Ben Pandira" was understood in the Babylonian Talmud as a euphemism for Jesus (cf. Tosefta Ḥul. 2:24, TB Av. Za. 16b-17a). It is fairly clear, therefore, that this entire talmudic passage is an anti-Christian polemic, ridiculing the doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus (see D. Rokeah, "Ben Sṭara is Ben Pantira"). In keeping with this anti-Christian tendency, the version of the second baraita as brought in the uncensored text of TB Sanhedrin 67a reads as follows: "And that is precisely what they did to Ben Sṭada (or: Sṭara) in Lydda, and they hung him on the day before the Passover" – apparently a reference to the crucifixion. The text then continues as in Shabbat ("Was he the son of Sṭara? Wasn't he rather …"). The ADL confirm that leading Jewish scholars confirm that Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud: http://www.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/the_talmud.pdf From page 11 Quote In the opinion of most scholars, the Talmud only refers to Jesus in a handful of places, and though these references may not reflect the courteous ecumenicism of the modern world, neither are they particularly inflammatory. Endquote The ADL go on to contradict the Jewish encyclopedia, which states Jesus was Balaam, but Whites don't really care about the squabbles of Palestinian Arab tribes like the Jews. We can see the Jewish encyclopedia stating that Jesus is referred to as Balaam in the Talmud. The online Jewish encyclopedia. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=161&letter=B The references in the Jewish encyclopedia are underlined, with the relevant Talmudic reference. http://www.israelect.com/Come-and-Hear/je/je_469.html http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/279.html Here are the references to little baby Jesus being boiled in excrement and semen. http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling...eaths_to_Jesus Here a rabbi at 00:45 confirms Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud, and states that the references were removed in Christian countries Yawn. As if we much care. Our opinions of Jews are based uponwhat Jews do, not what they believe. Anti-Judaism is caused by Jewish behaviour.
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July 6th, 2011 | #34 |
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I was hoping someone would gut Beef 'O' Brady's neo-conservative re-imaginings.
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July 6th, 2011 | #35 |
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Sorry, Hugh, but nothing in your post refutes the arguments in the original posts in this thread.
No modern scholars think that Jesus is discussed in the Talmud. There is no evidence to support it. If you read the original posts in this thread you would see that it is completely ridiculous to think that Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud. I also have to wonder why you and the other Christian nuts seem obsessed with this particular thread, but have completely ignored the other threads I've posted which contain solid evidence that Jesus is a literary myth. I think the reason is because you realize that you're too ignorant to counter those arguments. |
July 6th, 2011 | #36 | |
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Do you mean he wants to see if the deception in his article would fool anyone, so thought he'd try test the article here? Quite possibly, but I think the article was written quite a while ago. It would make sense he would try here, though I get the impression we may be dealing with a beginner or new graduate from their internet defence league or some such. He has no arguments himself, just simply keeps repeating over and over we don't convince him. He even fails to understand that he needs to convince us, which he has not done. Maybe they view VNN as some kind of graduation test. If they can last here, then they are ready to be set onto Wikipedia etc. Well, if that's the case, he has failed miserably. Even a baby could rip his "arguments" to shreds.
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July 6th, 2011 | #37 | |
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Why do you think we would care whether you are convinced? You stated an opinion, and you claim to have posted convincing evidence. Well, it isn't convincing. You are the one who needs to convince us, so kindly proceed to lay out some credible evidence. Simply stating you view the ADL as a B.S. organisation and that they, together with the Encyclopedia Judaica and Talmud should be ignored, is meaningless. Pray proceed to convince us, with hard facts, peer reviewed research, statements by credible Jewish research organisations. Get to work Zeth, and stop lazing about.
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July 6th, 2011 | #38 | ||
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He's made it clear he understands the *cough* "literary" genesis of Jeboo, and frankly doesn't give a damn. |
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July 6th, 2011 | #39 |
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Hey, those are some great ad hominem attacks, guys(complete with the "you're a Jew!" argument). But I have to say that I'm not really interested in your childish emotional venting. I'm more interested in if you can show why the arguments contained in the two original posts in this thread are incorrect.
Oh well, maybe next time. |
July 6th, 2011 | #40 | ||||||
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You mean other than Peter Schaefer (2007, 'Jesus in the Talmud', Princeton University Press) for one example?
You should note that Schaefer specifically disproves your little 'theory' which is based on Johann Maier's 1978 claim that none of the 'Yeshus' in the Talmuds can be identified with the Jesus of Christianity (based on not a little intellectual sophistry I might add). Quote:
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Last edited by Karl Radl; July 6th, 2011 at 05:12 PM. |
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