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Old January 22nd, 2015 #801
procopius
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The US doesn't have the option to sell cheap oil, all our new production comes from expensive fracking. Only the Saudis have the flexibility to lower the global price. They can profit selling oil for $20 a barrel, which will drive most US producers out of the market. The Saudis aren't being discouraged from keeping prices down, that's where your theory may be a factor.
I doubt the Saudi princes would do anything against their Western partners without their consent.
 
Old January 22nd, 2015 #802
Sean Gruber
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I wonder how many Israelis have a piece of Saudi oil.

ZOG's tactics and Walmart's tactics are jew tactics. It's called jewing.

Anyone awake can see what a nasty jewing entity ZOG is as it jews Russia.

Jewishness is what's wrong with capitalism.
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Old January 22nd, 2015 #803
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I haven't read all the 40 pages in this thread but I want to point out that NS Germany was not some sort of workers' socialist paradise. In fact it was more a sort of proto-neoliberal Reagan/Thatcher style economy.

http://www.ub.edu/graap/EHR.pdf

And I remember among other things workers couldn't quit their job without permission from their employer. Doesn't sound too great does it?
 
Old January 22nd, 2015 #804
Sam Emerson
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I doubt the Saudi princes would do anything against their Western partners without their consent.
That's simplistic, it depends what's at stake. The Saudis are absolutely forbidden to wage war on Israel, for example, but they have a lot of flexibility otherwise.

The US doesn't have a party line on oil prices. Oil producers and (ironically) environmentalists want the price to rise, almost everyone else wants it to fall. Since the seventies high oil prices have been a problem for politicians in the US. So when the Saudis decide not to cut back on production, allowing prices to drop, there aren't a lot of complaints.

It's hard for WNs to believe, but this may just be old fashioned supply and demand, not a conspiracy against Russia.
 
Old January 22nd, 2015 #805
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Originally Posted by S. Wayland View Post
I haven't read all the 40 pages in this thread but I want to point out that NS Germany was not some sort of workers' socialist paradise. In fact it was more a sort of proto-neoliberal Reagan/Thatcher style economy.

http://www.ub.edu/graap/EHR.pdf

And I remember among other things workers couldn't quit their job without permission from their employer. Doesn't sound too great does it?
I'll read that later, but Germa Bel as I'm sure you know, is a Marxist/social democrat. Leftists are notorious for lying about Germany's economic policies at the time in order to bolster the made up Comintern theory that Nationalsocialism is the "last line of defense of capital" (meanwhile, the same Comintern supported "Popular Front" alliances between communists and capitalists everywhere lol).

People writing that stuff are doing it for ideological reasons, and take certain things out of context to invent a conclusion from scratch (IE, Marxists talk about "stagnant wages" in Germany while not accounting for monetary deflation or the public subsidization). The Third Reich had 4-year plans. If they were just going to privatize everything, what were they planning then?
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Last edited by Joe_Smith; January 22nd, 2015 at 06:02 PM.
 
Old January 23rd, 2015 #806
S. Wayland
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Well it is hard to find any good research about the NS economy that isn't either "Capitalists did Hitler!" or some libertarian going on about how NS Germany was exactly the same as Obama and the Soviet Union.

There really isn't a contradiction between economic planning and privatisations, that is sort of the idea behind neo-liberalism that public services are better preformed when they are for profit. Of course I think that this has proven to be false in practise, as the "entrepreneurs" that take over the government services often try to get as much tax money as possible while cutting costs as much as they can. The results have been more expensive and worse services. It is likely that this was more of a temporary measure by the NS leadership to be able to secure control in the long term, but you can't really know I guess.

Nevertheless, we should not be beholden to any movement or person in the past, or engage in any reactionary pining for "The good old days". We have the imaginations to create new strong systems and social structures that can support or values for the future. Linder often makes a point that we should reduce the scale of our societies to a more manageable and robust level. I agree, but I disagree with him on some of his more dogmatic libertarian believes but w/e.
 
Old January 23rd, 2015 #807
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Linder often makes a point that we should reduce the scale of our societies to a more manageable and robust level. I agree, but I disagree with him on some of his more dogmatic libertarian believes [bolding added]
Ditto. A Linderian society would actually work (by contrast with 99% of political theorists' utopias). But maybe it wouldn't be everything people want.
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Old January 24th, 2015 #808
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I want to point out that NS Germany was not some sort of workers' socialist paradise. In fact it was more a sort of proto-neoliberal Reagan/Thatcher style economy.
There aren't too many non-jewed in depth sources about how the NSDAP's economy functioned

From the bits and pieces I gathered about the NSDAP's economy, is that it was a modular system. When the private sector was working well, it was allowed to continue doing so. But when there are major issues, they intervene. It was still Socialism because the government had the authority to Nationalize an industry if the private sector was inadequate at managing it, or a particular corporation was in severe violation of the law. We saw them do that with the banks. And I doubt a single person here is going to criticize them for doing that, considering those banks were jew owned/operated.

What they did is distinctly different than Soviet style Socialism where the government insisted on controlling all industry. Also, private ownership of land, and property was allowed, when the government owned everything in the Soviet Union. The ones who think these 2 governments are the same in economics or anything else are just conservatard fuckwits.

Last edited by Crowe; January 24th, 2015 at 11:57 AM.
 
Old January 25th, 2015 #809
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http://www.dailystormer.com/jew-bill...ccept-poverty/

"Seriously. Live more modestly. Why? At this point in history, we should be able to live incredibly comfortably working a 20 hour week, or even not at all. But we can’t even have a home and a car working 60 hours a week because these Jews stole all of our money and then flooded us with foreigners so we have no possibility of ever regaining our wealth as a nation.

Then this Jew comes out and says we’re going to have to get used to driving mid-90s Honda Civics, living with our parents, eating only White Castle and having to flip the couch cushions to find change enough to buy a new X-Box game?"
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Old January 26th, 2015 #810
Sean Gruber
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Jewish communism is for slavery and poverty, in the name of "justice."

Jewish capitalism is for anarcho-totalitarianism and pauperization, in the name of "virtue."

See the difference?

Neither do I.
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Old January 27th, 2015 #811
Joe_Smith
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All I know is that capitalists believe 2 coins can fuck and make coin babies. Wealth, in capitalism, reproduces itself on the "market", according to subscribers to its myths.

Nationalsocialists believe wealth is created by work. Thus, the working class, farmers, and small business owners are the engine in the national ship. The surplus value created by workers, which today is more than ever in human history, pocketed by capitalists and Jews who either put it in the bank to accumulate interest (because the bank uses it for usury or speculation) or directly use it to speculate and loan money. These interest or speculator profits are all siphoned away from their rightful owners: the productive forces of society!

Creating money from money is unAryan THEFT, yet all the successful corporations do it to one extent or another. Capitalism is a Jewish system, which is why they always rise to the top in such a dynamic while power slips out of their hands even when they originally composed 90% of the Soviet Central Committee.

The frankfurt school was right: individualist liberal capitalist societies are great for Jews, collectivist ones (whether it be "Nazism" or the Soviet Union, as Frankfurt Kikes specifically used as examples) are bad.
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Last edited by Joe_Smith; January 27th, 2015 at 03:37 AM.
 
Old January 27th, 2015 #812
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You know a country like Cuba - for as long as they've had an embargo on their Nation, many would have expected they'd end up like Haiti by now. The Cubans aren't an excellent people, they're driving American cars from the 50s instead of producing their own. An excellent people are capable of producing their own technology and not reliant on it being imported in. Even the Iranians make their own cars. But they were able to maintain themselves even after being isolated economically. I wouldn't call them a success story, but they weren't exactly a failure either. Culturally, I'd say they're way healthier than kwa is. If one was to compare Socialist Cuba to Democratic Mexico, which one do you think is the healthier nation?

Last edited by Crowe; January 27th, 2015 at 08:19 AM.
 
Old January 27th, 2015 #813
Sam Emerson
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All I know is that capitalists believe 2 coins can fuck and make coin babies. Wealth, in capitalism, reproduces itself on the "market", according to subscribers to its myths.
You don't understand money, credit, investing or any other economic concept beyond the grasp of a day laborer.

Borrowers pay interest to compensate lenders for the opportunity cost of giving up their money for a time and for the risk of default. Capitalists charge a higher interest rate because they don't believe that coins can make coin babies. They know that replayment is dependent on future income, which comes from production.

Systems that ban interest payments (like Islam) have to create workarounds to avoid economic collapse.
 
Old January 27th, 2015 #814
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Systems that ban interest payments (like Islam) have to create workarounds to avoid economic collapse.
The work around is a nationalized banking system. I'm not 100% opposed to interest rates, but they need to be very low and with no middle men borrowing money at lower interest rates than they're charging. The way it works now is the federal reserve loans money to the banks at a far lower interest rate than the banks loan money to the people. That middle man is absolutely unnecessary for an economy to function, and its just another way for someone to accumulate wealth by producing nothing.

Compound interest rates of 4% APR is complete horse shit on a 30 year loan. You're still paying for a house twice. I call that usury.
 
Old January 28th, 2015 #815
Sam Emerson
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The way it works now is the federal reserve loans money to the banks at a far lower interest rate than the banks loan money to the people.
Instead of nationalizing all capital why not eliminate central banking?

I would cap interest rates for consumer loans. This would limit the supply of easy credit. Borrowing is a dangerous vice, much more dangerous to the average man than pornography or crystal meth.
 
Old January 28th, 2015 #816
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Instead of nationalizing all capital why not eliminate central banking?

I would cap interest rates for consumer loans. This would limit the supply of easy credit. Borrowing is a dangerous vice, much more dangerous to the average man than pornography or crystal meth.
Nationalizing the banks makes it way harder for people with ulterior motives to weasel their way into controlling the Nation's money. I have more confidence in a Nationalist government keeping the banking system honest than private enterprise motivated purely by profit. If there is one sector that needs to be Nationalized, its banking in my opinion.

A Nationalist government wouldn't be as inefficient as kwa is. The government could operate a Nationalized banking system that is non-profit, while collecting enough revenue to cover operating costs. That could be provided via taxes, or through fees like minor interest rates. I'm not opposed to 0.5% interest on a 30 year loan for example. As long as its 1% or less. Whoever CEO of the Nationalist bank is should get a DNA test to make sure there isn't a single drop of jewish ancestry. I'd require that from all the top echelon.

I don't like the idea of life revolving around credit and borrowing money. I don't think that should be what makes our society tick economically. That leads to mass consumerism. People should generally be encouraged to save up and pay cash for stuff. I can understand getting a loan out for a house, or a brand new car, or a business loan. Living responsibly and not being wasteful is something that should be taught to kids in schools, that way when they get older they won't be a bunch of overindulgent, mass consumerist kwans.

Last edited by Crowe; January 28th, 2015 at 09:24 AM.
 
Old January 29th, 2015 #817
Sam Emerson
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Nationalizing the banks makes it way harder for people with ulterior motives to weasel their way into controlling the Nation's money.
Self evident stupidity for the win.
 
Old January 29th, 2015 #818
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Crowe: "Nationalizing the banks makes it way harder for people with ulterior motives to weasel their way into controlling the Nation's money."
And nationalizing the banks makes it way easier for slimy, pencil-pushing, know-nothing, government busy-bodies with a rank stench of corruption about them to manipulate who gets favors granted and who gets loans denied until this, that, or the next dick gets fellated.
 
Old January 29th, 2015 #819
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And nationalizing the banks makes it way easier for slimy, pencil-pushing, know-nothing, government busy-bodies with a rank stench of corruption about them to manipulate who gets favors granted and who gets loans denied until this, that, or the next dick gets fellated.
Your distrust of government is based on the current one, and in reality is based purely on emotion rather than practicality. Governments in the past have been efficient at management, but republicans like you and Sam Emerson seem to ignore those examples while focusing purely on the failures of government.

Corruption in government can be mitigated down to a dull roar if the penalties are extremely severe, and not a slap on the wrist like you'd get in the USA.

People assume that the US government is a massive, wasteful and inefficient entity. To some extent it is, but that is only due to their politics and culture. If you have a bunch of incompetent niggers working at the IRS, of course its gonna run like shit. Generally, things are working exactly as the ones pulling the strings would like them to. Blatantly traitorous actions are frequently passed off as being mismanagement or incompetence of government by the media. Just more bullshit in an effort to placate people just like you.
 
Old January 29th, 2015 #820
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You know a country like Cuba - for as long as they've had an embargo on their Nation, many would have expected they'd end up like Haiti by now. The Cubans aren't an excellent people, they're driving American cars from the 50s instead of producing their own. An excellent people are capable of producing their own technology and not reliant on it being imported in. Even the Iranians make their own cars. But they were able to maintain themselves even after being isolated economically. I wouldn't call them a success story, but they weren't exactly a failure either. Culturally, I'd say they're way healthier than kwa is. If one was to compare Socialist Cuba to Democratic Mexico, which one do you think is the healthier nation?
At least if you are a white mexican from the upper classes, you can pack your stuff and leave, Cuba is just a gulag island, I know many white cubans whose fathers had to risk swimming with the sharks in order to escape that shithole, Castro was largely supported by the western media and Washington, without their influence, Batista would have manage to excecute the marrano.
 
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