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Old December 3rd, 2004 #1
Sean Martin
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Default Only stupid and uneducated people believe in God

This is a common myth taught by Atheists. The popular is only someone uneducated, weak or poor would believe in God. However some of the greatest minds in throughout history believed in God. Many were Christians and while there were some that may not have believed in Yahweh, many of the greatest minds in history acknowledged the existence of god or a higher power. Even today many of the most rabid atheists come to a conclusion that there may be a higher power but they donít want to worship Yahweh for whatever reason. Even pagans believe in a higher power or an existence in god but again donít want to worship Yahweh for whatever reason. So with Christianity 99% of the time it is not whether God exists or not it is whether people want to worship Yahweh. I personally believe that most people that claim to be atheists are in reality agnostic and that is undecided on the concept of God.

1. Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and Copernicus was urged to publish around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

2. Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

3. Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, he saw his system as concerning the issue of how the Bible should be interpreted.

4. Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted was to see his philosophy adopted as standard Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

5. Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding from the Bible God's plan for history. He did a lot of work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

6. Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gasses, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, "for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels."... As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

7. Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
The son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but has led to so much in our lifestyles today which depend on them (including computers and telephone lines and so Web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced upon him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. The Sandemanians originated from Presbyterians who had rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

8. Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was the formation of the X-Club, dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science whilst, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #2
Sean Martin
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Default Only stupid and uneducated people believe in God Part 2

9. Kelvin (William Thompson) (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered may areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities who recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

10. Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which has revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

11. Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."



References
1. John Banville, Doctor Copernicus (1990), E. Rosen and E. Hiltstein, Copernicus and His Successors (1994)
2. M. Caspar, Kepler (1994), J. Banville, Kepler (1990)
3. Annibale Fantoli, Galileo: For Copernicanism and for the Church (1994), M. Sharratt, Galileo (1994), M. A. Finnochiaro, The Galileo Affair: A Documentary History (1989).
4. S. Gaukroger, Descartes, an Intellectual Biography (1995), M. R. Keith, Rene Descartes: The Story of the Soul (1987)
5. R. S. Westfall, Never At Rest (1985) or The Life of Isaac Newton (1994), A. R. Hall, Isaac Newton: Adventurer in Thought (1992), J. E. Force and R. H. Popkin, Essays on the Context, Nature and Influence of Isaac Newton's Theology (1990)
6. Michael Hunter, Robert Boyle Reconsidered (1994), Jan Wojcik, Robert Boyle and the Limits of Reason (1991)
7. G. N. Cantor Michael Faraday, Sandemanian and Scientist (1993) or Michael Faraday (1996)
8. S. Finn, Gregor Mendel: The First Geneticist (1996)
9. H. and T. Sharlin, Lord Kelvin, Dynamic Victorian (1995)
10. J. L. Heillron, Dilemmas of an Upright Man (1986)
11. R. Highfield and P. Larter, Private Lives of Albert Einstein (1994), I. Paul, Science and Theology in Einstein's Perspective (1986), J. Goldernstein, Albert Einstein: Physicist and Genius (1995)
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #3
Todd in FL
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Default Jackass!

I could compile a list of atheist that made contribuitions as well to make it look like xtianity is bad. That is a typical strawman bullshit way of debating issues... only idiots do that.

My problems with xtianity are ones of the need to worship someone and the idea that the bible is the word of Jesus. It is not because it was edited so many times by politians along the way that it lost meaning even for his followers and to interpret it literally is silly. I don't even worship pagan gods cuz I don't need to worship them. Why should I? If I have to worship someone how am I a benefit to the race? I wouldn't be.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #4
Paul Drake
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So what's your point Sean? You tired of being called 'stupid and uneducated'?
Do you think you'll *convert* me with your list? Anyone that's observed human nature knows that even intellegent and educated people can be fools.
Why do you christers have this obsession to convert the infidels?
By the way, I've always wanted to ask you this, how many nigger's head's have you kicked in with those boots of your's?
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #5
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Not everyone that follows Judeo-christianity is a fucking idiot, but it sure is the safe bet.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #6
MOMUS
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Default Too stupid to know how stupid he is.

Doc will need somebody to explain the humor in the photo. Maybe hitler goddess will help him.

Doc loves to smite those wicked pagans with his mighty wooden sword.
He suspects them of having a nose which causes him problems.

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.p...ans#post151988

Quote:
Now if the atheists and pagans can keep their nose out of our business long enough for us to win this battle we can get the ball rolling in the right direction. If we (Christians) can win this right it may lead to other groups winning the right to discriminate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel.Kurtz
BTW, I finally found ol' Duckless Martin's' hick church:
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #7
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Of course the kike Einstein followed Kike Spinoza's god. That is a Jew god which is either a figment of the jew imagination at best or a malevolent demon at worst. I'm surprised you put evil plaigiarizing kike Einstein on that list Sean.
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oprichniki
Not everyone that follows Judeo-christianity is a fucking idiot, but it sure is the safe bet.
Well I have to agree with you on that one, especially when they say they don't like jews!
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #9
The Barrenness
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Why can't some of you actually attempt to debate what Sean is saying instead of attacking him? Do you know how stupid that makes some of YOU look? This could have been halfway interesting, but I can see that is not going to happen.
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #10
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Default "Debate"? with that idiot? Good joke.

Halfway interesting is an ambitious goal when it comes to the Doc's posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitler goddess
Why can't some of you actually attempt to debate what Sean is saying instead of attacking him? Do you know how stupid that makes some of YOU look? This could have been halfway interesting, but I can see that is not going to happen.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #11
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Even educated and intelligent people can believe in god.
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #12
Paul Drake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitler goddess
Why can't some of you actually attempt to debate what Sean is saying instead of attacking him?
What is there to debate? Faith is faith. Intellect is intellect. The 'debate' has been raging for so long it's boring. Once again, why the *need* to convert me?
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #13
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No one's trying to convert anyone. Fucking lord, we need some Jews in here. That way us WN's (or racists, nazis, whatever you call it) can stick together. What's gonna happen when we have a homeland and no more enemies? Obviously, we're gonna start killing eachother, cause some people are only fucking happy when they're starting shit or spouting off arguments that have been repeated for prolly a hundred fucking years. No wonder no one takes us seriously. Morons trying over and over to prove their intellectual "superiority" over the other morons, it gets little fucking old. Not to mention, its PRETTY FUCKING POINTLESS. Like EITHER side would ever admit they're wrong, even while slapped in the face with proof. How's about we end the pathetic intellectual posturing and empty fucking threats and anonymous shit-talking?

WORK TOGETHER, ASSHOLES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Drake
What is there to debate? Faith is faith. Intellect is intellect. The 'debate' has been raging for so long it's boring. Once again, why the *need* to convert me?
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheerTerror
No one's trying to convert anyone. Fucking lord, we need some Jews in here. That way us WN's (or racists, nazis, whatever you call it) can stick together. What's gonna happen when we have a homeland and no more enemies? Obviously, we're gonna start killing eachother, cause some people are only fucking happy when they're starting shit or spouting off arguments that have been repeated for prolly a hundred fucking years. No wonder no one takes us seriously. Morons trying over and over to prove their intellectual "superiority" over the other morons, it gets little fucking old. Not to mention, its PRETTY FUCKING POINTLESS. Like EITHER side would ever admit they're wrong, even while slapped in the face with proof. How's about we end the pathetic intellectual posturing and empty fucking threats and anonymous shit-talking?

WORK TOGETHER, ASSHOLES.

Everything you say is completely true, except when you say we need some Jews in here. I think there already is some, wouldn't that explain some things that are going on here?
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #15
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You're prolly right. I just think racially aware people should work with other racially aware people REGARDLESS of what your spiritual beliefs are.

I just said we need a Jew or two so we can focus on a common enemy. I was half-joking, half-serious... I don't like making enemies outta other racists. And I don't like seeing racists tearing at each others' throats. People like Fadethe Butcher, tho, who want to say they're "racist" without actually being racist...fuck those guys. They're fooling themselves.

But these free-for-all debates go no where and everyone involved just gets pissed. Its pretty ridiculous, but hey, some people gotz to have their drama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitler goddess
Everything you say is completely true, except when you say we need some Jews in here. I think there already is some, wouldn't that explain some things that are going on here?
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #16
Todd in FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Drake
What is there to debate? Faith is faith. Intellect is intellect. The 'debate' has been raging for so long it's boring. Once again, why the *need* to convert me?
True. I have no need to make the xtians think like me. They want to "worship" someone and I think the need to do so is a genetic defect. Good and evil are reletive. The only things whites need to concern themselves with are what actually benefits the white race and religion has never done so. It can be proven that religion has been a serious detriment.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #17
Paul Drake
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Sheer Terror says:
"No one's trying to convert anyone."

If you believe *that* Mr. Terror, I have some ocean front property in Nevada
you might be interested in seeing.
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Old December 3rd, 2004 #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Drake
Sheer Terror says:
"No one's trying to convert anyone."


Just who do you suppose is trying to "convert" you? that sounds so strange and paranoid in a way. LOL
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #19
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Cool. It'll make a good place to put the Brooklyn bridge. And my mom said I was a fool when I gave all my money to that shady guy with a pointy goatee and slicked-back hair!

But, if he IS trying to convert, just don't listen. I don't think any form of spiritualism is right or wrong. Spirituality and higher thinking is what seperates us from the animals (that, and our thumbs). Just like you need physical food, you need spiritual food. Otherwise, like the Jews, you become a cynical, materialistic prick. It doesn't matter HOW you feed your soul. As long as it gets nourished.

Personally, I think its silly that people need to be threatened with fire and brimstone in order to act like a decent White person. Which is why I'm not a Christian. But, a lot of the Christians I know would be good people even if they had never heard of Xianity. You just gotta find something that works for you. Just don't convert to Judaism. Please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Drake
Sheer Terror says:
"No one's trying to convert anyone."

If you believe *that* Mr. Terror, I have some ocean front property in Nevada
you might be interested in seeing.
 
Old December 3rd, 2004 #20
Paul Drake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitler goddess
Just who do you suppose is trying to "convert" you? that sounds so strange and paranoid in a way. LOL
It's the *mission* of every religious fruitcake, "bitch". You don't know that?
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