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Old February 12th, 2004 #1
konkwista88
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Default a few comments about white revolution

I have no doubt in my mind that white revolution is the best and most dynamic white nationalist organization in the US today. After just existing for a little over a year it is now on the same (and some say higher) level in terms of membership and activism as the NA, which has been around for over thirty! The next few points that I wish to bring up are simply suggestions, not criticism on how to make white revolution better and bigger.

A. While the whiterevolution site is a good quality site for racialists, it does little for people that are not part of the movement, yet. I would suggest removing the swastika from the translation into German section, instead replace it was the Bismarck's Germany's flag. Most Americans, even the half way racialists get too upset about this symbolism, and having it on the front page of a major website, does not seem to be that productive. I would suggest we create a section that is for opposing view points. A part where liberals, conservatives and libertarianians can visit, that rip apart slowly everything that they believe in. Have some thought stimulating questions such as
"Why is most of the history in the US focused on the holocaust, if atrocities on a much grander scale have taken place and most americans never heard of them?". Then create a few links to learn more about the holocaust industry and holohoax. This will allow nonracists and half way racists to exlpore and question their views more, since they were willing to go to the site in the first place. My favorite part about the davidudke website is the opening pop link that directs us to an article abotu Jewish treason and supremacism. Something like that would get a lot of peoples attention. Maybe also have a few pages of "the effects that diversity had on my neighborhood when it turned black,hispanic, asian". Pictures of such communities would be a great conversion tool, and have at the end "do you want your community to turn into this?"

b. Have a rally in the next few weeks dedictaed to Bush's amnesty proposal. This time shy away from any swastikas and hoods. Make yourselves look as mainstream white america as possible, like in Newport. Also start a rally at major veteran, of the latest jewish led war in Iraq, towns.

c. Expand your merchandise and start selling nonracist and pro-ethnic clothing, with viking and lord of the rings themes to it. Sell clothes that people can wear besides at white power events, such as at school and work. This will provide you with much needing funds for white revolution.

D. Launch a few more events and campaigns in Newport. You guys seem to have slowly surfaced into mainstream white society there, keep on the pressure. Imagine the effects it would have on the movement and on the Jews, if you guys had hundreds of members from just one town. Then you can slowly take over local politics there as well.
 
Old February 12th, 2004 #2
your mama
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your mama
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The most brilliant post yet. If you actually think that Corky Roper's band of section 8 housing qualifiers has anywhere near the membership of the NA you are sadly informed....
 
Old February 12th, 2004 #3
Wulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konkwista88
. This time shy away from any swastikas and hoods.
The only people who show up to Billy Roper's events are wearing swastikas and/or hoods!
 
Old February 12th, 2004 #4
Jeff The Pollock
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People here are living in Bizzaro world if they think that White Revolution will ever take off. The name alone is too controversal for most to handle.
 
Old February 13th, 2004 #5
konkwista88
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See this is the difference between constructive criticism and just pure insults. I gave a few suggestions on how white revolution could improve. You on the otherhand just insult it outright, and offer us no alternative solution. Thanks.
 
Old February 13th, 2004 #6
Ben Vinyard
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konkwista,

Thank you for your comments. According to one of our newest WR members, who recently worked as an n/a staff member, their membership has dropped to a few hundred, though it is hard to pinpoint an exact number since they don’t seem to take anybody off their membership list. I know a couple of people who attend our regular WR meetings that haven’t paid their NA dues in a year and a half but still receive their Bulletin. One of them was even invited to their last Leadership Conference. No doubt they are still listed as members. Technically speaking they may have more “members” than us, but there is little room for doubt which group is more relevant or more active. Chairman Roper’s leadership and vision has made us more successful in a shorter time span than even we imagined. I can’t think of any other pro-White organization that started off with this big of a bang, but we don’t intend to stop here. Neither do we gauge ourselves by the failures of the NA, either past or present.

In regards to your suggestions:

A) I don’t think anybody that visits a website called “White Revolution” will be too offended by a small Swastika. Chairman Roper and Vice Chairman Gerhard have stated many times that we are not an introductory organization. We are not interested in people that want to sit at home and paint pretty pictures all day instead of support our efforts. Part of the formula for success is that we only seek the most hardcore activists. It would be great if we could be multi-faceted and form introductory organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens to help lead our people in the right direction, but the truth is we don’t have those kind of resources and aren’t likely to in the near future. The genius of Chairman Roper’s plan is that we use existing organizations for those types of platforms. That’s why the idea of unity is so important and that’s why the idea of an umbrella organization has proved to be viable.

One of the ideas we have been kicking around for a long time, along the lines of your suggestion, is an FAQ for the website, partly because it is annoying to answer the same stupid e-mails every day. The project always keeps getting put on the back-burner because everyone is so busy with something else. You seem to have a good vision for this idea, so why don’t you work something up similar to your suggestions? We will put it on the website.

B) It is not so easy to just whip up a demonstration in a couple of weeks time. You have to give people advanced notice, obtain permits, advertise, etc. We held big anti-immigration rallies towards the end of last year to protest the Immigrant Worker’s Freedom Ride. In fact, we held two rallies on the same day while other WR members attended a third in Florida. I don’t recollect anyone showing up in their regalia and it was quite successful, with people from anti-immigrant groups and the Council of Conservative Citizens showing up and protesting side by side with us. I am not sure when our next demonstration will be, you will have to contact the officers for more information. The best place to ask would probably be members@whiterevolution.com.

I am in agreement with you about the Klan robes and Nazi uniforms. I think their traditionalism may be too extreme. I would prefer everyone at demonstrations wear their zog suits. The clothes do make the man and they do leave an impression. It would be an ideal world if we could afford to be nit-picky about our dress code, but in the practical world we have to work with what elements we have. As a matter of practicality, if we thinned out every skinhead in blue jeans and everyone in their traditionalist garb that would only leave about three of us. Also, I would never turn my back on one of my racial comrades or look down on them for what I consider poor fashion sense. All we can do is try and convince them of our opinions, nothing more. NSM will be holding a rally in Raleigh on February 21st, and there will be a lot of Klansmen there in their robes as well, I am sure. If I can get off work I will try and make it. And I will not stand by my comrades flinchingly, but with honor that they would allow me to attend. WR speakers will be Vice Chairman Victor Gerhard and Deputy Governor Billy Brown. The demonstration looks like it will be a good draw. You can find out more details at http://www.nsm88.com/rally/northcarolinarally.html.

Yes, the overwhelming success at the Newport rally came as a pleasant surprise. Such a success that they cancelled the Martin Luther King celebration! There were only about 100 White Nationalists, but about 100 locals (!) showed up and joined in the protest, bringing the number to about 200. I guess it’s true that nobody likes a nigger. Spreading our brand of racism through demonstrations is a good form of activism if for no other reason than the sense of unity and camaraderie it builds, but when you sign up a lot of people it is a big plus. Our demonstrations are getting bigger and bigger. Hopefully by next year we will be able to put 500 people on the Capitol lawn again as we did for Chairman Roper’s D.C. rally and get back to the point where we left off after Dr. Pierce’s untimely departure.

C) I like your idea of expanding the merchandise to include non-racist but pro-ethnic items. In fact, I think it’s a terrific idea. One of our mistakes was probably not giving enough attention to our merchandizing arm. We are going to revamp Revolutionary Productions in the near future. Of course, it will probably be a long time before we can develop the business enough to turn a sizable profit, but we are hoping to be in close contact with Dr. Bob DeMarais for his advice and to learn from his experience. Financial matters have never been a strong suit for the White Nationalist movement, to our detriment, but if he is willing to consult with us I can’t think of anybody better to learn from or a more successful model to follow. By the way, Dr. Bob prints a terrific magazine, Thunderbolt of Truth, which you can find at www.thunderboltoftruth.net.

D) As I said, Newport proved to be fertile breeding ground for us. Hopefully something will develop there. After being scorned and insulted for so long because of our beliefs, even by people in our own movement, it was shocking that so many people were receptive to our radical viewpoint. Believe me, there will be a lot more towns like Newport along the way before this putsch is over.


Jeff the Pollock,

Where have you been for the last year or so? Living in a closet? White Revolution is already well established. You’re a little late in predicting we “will never take off.” That’s a little like telling a NASCAR driver the horseless buggy will never travel faster than 35 mph. Your post is nonsensical, as your username would suggest.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old February 13th, 2004 #7
Fred Streed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Vinyard

According to one of our newest WR members, who recently worked as an n/a staff member, their membership has dropped to a few hundred, though it is hard to pinpoint an exact number since they don’t seem to take anybody off their membership list. I know a couple of people who attend our regular WR meetings that haven’t paid their NA dues in a year and a half but still receive their Bulletin. One of them was even invited to their last Leadership Conference. No doubt they are still listed as members.
Ben Vinyard

Hey Ben-Interesting stuff, this comes up a lot. People who have RESIGNED their membership are still getting bulletins. It is a way of inflating the membership numbers but it is also due to the pure ineptness of the clowns attempting to run the NA these days. They honestly do not know who is a member and who is not. When the accusation surfaced against Gliebe for pressing the extra thousand Cut Throat CDs "under the table" I asked him about it. It totally fucked up his day. This was about 11:00 PM one night. By 8:00 AM the next morning he had a gang of armed thugs at NAHQ to guard the doors of the main office Bldg. and the warehouse in order to deny me access to it. Marta had the database locked down pretty tight under several layers of security. She offered to go in and teach someone how to access it and how to run the damn thing since it was custom built. Gliebe refused, for some reason he seemed terrified of having anyone who wasn't under his control accessing the databases which also incidently contained the inventory records, as well as the business records contained in the computer I was using to pay the bills and balance the accounts. He sure seemed to take these "baseless accusations" serious. He brought in his ace team of 18 year old pimply faced "computer experts" to crack the data base. The result was the loss of the database.

I doubt if anyone at NAHQ even knows what the current membership numbers are.
 
Old February 13th, 2004 #8
White Will
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Vinyard
:...Chairman Roper and Vice Chairman Gerhard have stated many times that we are not an introductory organization. We are not interested in people that want to sit at home and paint pretty pictures all day instead of support our efforts. Part of the formula for success is that we only seek the most hardcore activists...The genius of Chairman Roper’s plan is that we use existing organizations for those types of platforms. That’s why the idea of unity is so important and that’s why the idea of an umbrella organization has proved to be viable...

[I]n the practical world we have to work with what elements we have...NSM will be holding a rally in Raleigh on February 21st, and there will be a lot of Klansmen there in their robes as well, I am sure. If I can get off work I will try and make it. And I will not stand by my comrades flinchingly, but with honor that they would allow me to attend. WR speakers will be Vice Chairman Victor Gerhard and Deputy Governor Billy Brown. The demonstration looks like it will be a good draw. You can find out more details at http://www.nsm88.com/rally/northcarolinarally.html.
Ben Vinyard
Ben, your idea of "using" others, especially uniformed Hollywood Nazis and various Xian KKK factions and Sons of Yahweh, and only Yahweh knows who else, is neither viable nor successful, as you'll discover come 2/21 when you hike up here in Raleigh arm-in-arm with that crowd, none of whom are from around here.

No, I won't be there supporting your abortive "formula for success", but I won't be "sitting at home painting pretty pictures all day," either. I take it that you were attempting to insult me with that lame jab. I'll be working that day with the hardcore activists you wish would show up, but won't. I'll be doing what I can to build an effective White resistance, not another clown act.

I'll take your poke at me in stride, friend; it comes with the territory. I have nothing against you for working hard for WR, but I want no part of your umbrella of unity and I don't mind telling you what I think of it -- Gliebe, either, for taking NA in that same direction. I find your approach terribly flawed, expedient, and I know for a fact that those "hardcore racists" you say you are "using" will neither advance your cause nor stand with you when you find your ass in a crack. You may find that they are using you. Good luck!

Who stepped forward when your North Carolina Deputy Governor, Billy Brown, was arrested here in Raleigh, jailed, and faced Federal hate crime charges and $10,000 bail? Who got him his lawyer and is still working with that lawyer to defend Billy? It wasn't WR's Vice Chairman, who is an attorney and lives in this state, just two hours away. It wasn't your Chairman down in Arkansas who is so critical of me for not jumping under your umbrella of unity. I did; it was me, the fellow who you would suggest "sits around and paints pretty pictures all day instead of supporting WR." And I did it because I'm able to and was willing to help Billy when nobody else was. You guys would do better to get behind Billy Brown's defense, raise funds, formulate a winning legal strategy, then fight with all your collective might the establishment that illegally dares to say you can't distribute racist literature -- than by trying to build unity with the hardcore racists of the Sons of Yahweh, the NSM and the various factions of the Xian KKK. You'll be laughed out of town, believe me. You don't know my city, and you certainly will not be helping Billy's case by projecting such an image of White Revolution.

Three or four years ago, before I convinced Dr. Pierce he should hire Billy Roper to help coordinate the membership activities of the National Alliance, our activists here organized a demonstration protesting the Mexican invasion in an adjoining county. We had what was estimated at over 1,000 people show up for that event, mostly local folks -- no robed Kluckers, no uniformed Nazis and barely a dozen counterprotesters. All the regional TV stations featured our protest on their evening newscasts, and all the local papers featured our extremely well organized event on their front pages the next day, with the Charlotte Observer headlining it as the largest Nazi rally in 15 years. Of course, it was not a "Nazi rally" at all and the good White folks who participated didn't appreciate being characterized as such in the controlled media. It was a positive eye-opener for a lot of White folks around these parts and put the invaders and their White collaborators on notice.

For all WR's chest-beating about much smaller rallies organized by Billy (he forgets, under the auspices of the National Alliance) once he went to work for Dr. Pierce, the man whose name he smears now, and for all the "momentum" you claim to have built, and for all the "forward marching" with your uniformed Nazis, Creators, Skinheads, KKK, Aryan Nations and other Identy Xians, you have come nowhere near approaching the success of that National Alliance anti-immigration rally that we put together in the little town of Siler City, NC.

Now, I'd like to make a couple of comments concerning my "pretty pictures."

I decided to be an artist nearly 20 years ago so that I could be active full time in racial politics. If being a painter was good enough for Messrs. Hitler and Rockwell and Zundel and others, I figured it was good enough for me, too; better than working my ass off, spending all my waking hours as a designer/builder/developer, as I had been doing for years before my commitment, and infinitely better than being tied up as a wage slave, dependent on "the man" as to whether or not I can get off next Saturday to stand with my kinsmen -- like you apparently are. I structured my life where I could be a fulltime political soldier without being easily defunctionalized by JOG. I happen to be a pretty fair painter as it turned out, but being an artist has never been more than cover for my political work. I've managed to use my artistic talents, mostly portraiture, for the Cause when I could, usually donating my work.

Ben Klassen dabbled as a painter and had a nice little studio when I worked with him back in the late 1980's. He encouraged me to paint in my spare time, something I had very little of as I was putting in 70 hour weeks working full time building his movement. I have Klassen's easel. One day, out of the blue, Dr. Pierce generously gave me Commander Rockwell's paint set and palette that he had inherited, saying I should have it for all I had done for Alliance-building. Over the years I've managed to paint, from life, the portraits of several other leaders and of their family members. You should be so fortunate as I have been to have worked for such men, to have your work hanging in their living rooms, and to have been encouraged by them to keep doing something that brings you such satisfaction.

As Phillippe Destouches said nearly 300 years ago, "Criticism is easy, art is difficut." I believe everyone should have an outlet to express his creative energy, whether it be music, painting, sculpture, poetry, literature, or inventing or designing something then fabricating it. Art is a White thing; it brings a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction to the creator, even a touch of much needed serenity to us who have a war raging around us that others can't see. Art can have a mystical quality for the viewer or listener that reaches deep into our aggregate racial soul, imprinted over many generations, and touches that and our senses as mere politics can never do. You should appreciate that, Ben. It makes you look small when you try to ridicule creative expression.
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #9
Linc
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Linc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightonWNP
I will add my support to Mr Ropers White Revolution. A white
revolution is what the world needs. America is the biggest and most powerful
nation. The best place to start.
The revolution will proceed by many paths at once. It was ever thus. Before
the revolution can succeed, we need a consistent and compelling vision. Then
we need to find effective ways to promote this vision. When the vision is in
the air, the details will seem to happen magically; all the necessary people in
all the necessary places will instinctively do the right thing to bring it
about. Find the vision; spread the vision; share it with everyone who will be
necessary to make it come true. Focus on this first.

Jumping the gun is fun and lets some people blow off steam. If that is your
thing, more power to you. Just please, don't screw up the important work of
spreading the vision. Right now ZOG controls the media. Our first priority
must be to build our own media infrastructure to get the message out. Make
their media irrelevant. Their entertainment is so crappy that even amateurs
can attract peoples attention, if it is wholesome white entertainment. There
are vast opportunities here. Yggdrasil is right.

Buy a DVD burner. Start writing scripts. Learn how to shoot film. Take
acting classes. Spread the vision; anything else is not helpful right now.

Live white; explain to others why you do what you do in a calm rational way;
that will help spread the vision. Never show anger; let your face express
pleasure, amusement, or sorrow. Be pleasant. Make people like you. Be a part
of the community. Make people think, "there goes a normal chap, got his head
on right, loves his brother" sort of thing.

We are in a long term struggle. Think in terms of fifty years. It took the
Jews a thousand years to get control over us. This isn't going to be reversed
overnight. Start eating right. Show you are socially responsible by eating
organic, and if you have a bent for it, growing your own organic food. Do a
24-hour water fast once a week, it will flush your body of toxins and make you
healthier.

Learn the psychology of our people so you can present the message to them.
Make it a pleasant message that they will accept. We do have weaknesses;
acknowledge and work with them. Spread love, not hate. Love is when everyone
is free to fulfill their destiny. Hate is forcing people together who have
conflicting morals, values, and personalities.

Yggdrasil may be too moderate for many reading this board. But his approach is
the only secular one with a chance of success.

The only time a bloody approach will work is when a significant number of
Aryans wake up, realize they are the real Israelites, the Jews are a largely
non-Semitic imposter race, and turn to their God and pray the prayer found in
Joel 2:17. God did designate the best parts of the world to belong to us,
North America, Europe, South Africa, and Australia. He also intended for us to
oversee the remaining parts. When we get right with God, 100 of us will slay
10,000 without losing a single man. Historical fact. The longer you encourage
people to break God's laws, the longer it will take for him to remember us and
free us from the yoke of the racial alien.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel 2:17
- Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the
porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not
thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore
should they say among the people, Where is their God?
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #10
Ben Vinyard
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Will,

My comments were not directed towards you. They were directed towards those who sit at home and complain that our organizations aren’t doing anything or aren’t doing enough, but yet they refuse to pitch in and help. It’s like the man who doesn’t hire a gardener complaining that his lawn never gets mowed. (These comments are not directed towards any specific gardeners.) The truth is, active members of an organization have a lot of say in what direction that organization takes. I didn’t know you were an artist. There is nothing dishonorable in that profession. I would love to see your work sometime.

I went back and read the Gliebe thread carefully and I am not sure why you started hurling insults at our organization. You made the ridiculous claim that we were being dishonest, but that is not the truth. I pointed out clearly what our position was but in a subsequent post you continued to spread the lie that we were dishonest. As you said, I suppose insults come with the territory, whether they are unfounded or not. It is one of the more distasteful things about this artificial form of communication.

Yes, we do “use” other organizations, in the sense of coalition building. You said, “You may find that they are using you.” I hope they do! That’s the whole point. The movement is not about White Revolution or Volksfront or Aryan Nations or the National Alliance. It is about the survival of the White race. If another organization uses us as a stepping-stone to success or to build something bigger and better than what we are doing, then I am 100% in favor of it.

I had always heard that it was impossible to argue with success, but amazingly you have found a way to do so. The proof is in the pudding. Our street activism has been a huge success as well as our beginning media efforts. (And there is a lot more to come, I can promise you that.) There is still a long way to go, and a lot of improvements to make, (and a lot of mistakes still to come, I am sure) but we very definitely have the momentum in our favor. When you were membership coordinator for the Alliance, after 20 years you had roughly the same amount of members we have after one year. The “tightly-focused” and “elite” group you strove after have all joined our side. I would think that would give some evidence to the success of our approach. Lawyers? We got ‘em. Doctors? We got ‘em. Businessmen? We got ‘em. We also have the “chicken pluckers” that Dr. Pierce criticized, the hard-working laborers. We are building coalitions with the suit and tie crowd as well as the skinheads and “Kluckers” and “uniformed Nazis” that you look down on. As to the actual members of our organization not being hardcore racists, your comments are not worthy of a response.

It is a shame that you won’t come out and join your comrades on the 21st, however I wish you the best of luck with your clandestine meeting to establish a resistance movement on that day. I will breathe a lot easier on the 22nd.

I am not afraid of your criticism. In fact, I consider constructive criticism to be healthy. Your track record in the movement has earned you the respect for your opinions to voiced and heard. I can’t rightfully speak for Chairman Roper’s criticism of some of Dr. Pierce’s failed methods. I believe they were probably a rash reaction to some of the insults you began flinging towards us. I can tell you however that Chairman Roper has a tremendous respect for Dr. Pierce. During our days at the Alliance together I heard him say several times that he would take a bullet for the man. That said, our cause is so important that no one (or no approach) in this movement can afford to be above criticism. Not you, me, Billy Roper or Dr. Pierce.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly thank you for your help with the Billy Brown case. I will admit I was a little troubled when the lawyer you found for him didn’t bother to show up at the court date, but it is my understanding that has all been resolved. We are doing what we can to promote his Legal Defense Fund. We have him listed front and center on our website, we have mentioned him several times on our news broadcasts and we have mentioned him in our White Revolution Reports. We are also offering discounted web hosting in exchange for contributions and plan to offer T-shirts with all funds going directly to Mr. Brown. Our web hits show that a lot of people have heard the message, but the donations have been less than satisfying. For those reading this message, this is an important case and there is no better representative in our movement than Billy Brown. You can send your donations to:

White Revolution
Billy Brown Legal Defense Fund
P.O. Box 2024
Russellville, AR. 72811


Ben Vinyard
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #11
Ben Vinyard
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Fred,

Our new member also informs us that the NA has absolutely no idea what their inventory is. Our new member told us that it would be impossible to do a count because of all the looting taking place and no records are kept. Gliebe's friends, like Officer Bob, will come in and take boxloads of books and CDs off the shelf. When they run out of a book they don't replace it because they don't know how to order the item or even where to order the item from. As a result many orders get returned simply because they don't have the items in stock.

Fred, let me know when you head back out this way. I would love to take you and Marta out to dinner. There is an all-you-can-eat steakhouse here and the steak is not so bad. My treat.

Sid,

Thanks for the words of support.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #12
White Will
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[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Will,
My comments were not directed towards you...I didn’t know you were an artist.
---

Uh huh. I see.

---
I went back and read the Gliebe thread carefully and I am not sure why you started hurling insults at our organization. You made the ridiculous claim that we were being dishonest, but that is not the truth. I pointed out clearly what our position was but in a subsequent post you continued to spread the lie that we were dishonest. As you said, I suppose insults come with the territory, whether they are unfounded or not. It is one of the more distasteful things about this artificial form of communication.

The “tightly-focused” and “elite” group you strove after have all joined our side. I would think that would give some evidence to the success of our approach.
---

"All," Ben? Who's being dishonest and unreasonable? I know many people who joined NA and COTC who have not joined WR and NEVER will because of your deliberatly softened position on Xianity as an opposing ideology in order to attract the decidedly non-elite mob. There are many good people still in NA, hanging on by their fingernails, who reject your umbrella organization, who were attracted to Dr. Pierce's honest approach to the Xian problem, even though Gliebe is now doing the same thing WR is. What organization is left for those of us who rebuke the big tent approach? I have no problem calling this group of honest, uncompromising activists the "elite."

It's not easy being honest these days, especially when dealing with big lies like the HolyHoax and Xianity. I'll repost below what I transcribed over two months ago to this forum. Dr. Pierce deals honestly with the problem 22 years ago in his Alliance Members BULLETIN, before many here reading this were even born. He explains why we should not compromise with lies and liars. He never reached out to the masses but sought to build a movement of will and determination from the few honest people who agreed with him and we then attracted others with these truths. WR is being dishonest in its departure from what its leaders know to be the truth, and so is Erich Gliebe. My accusations stand. You can say I'm spreading lies about you all you want, Ben, but, believe me, there are plenty of Pierce and Klassen loyalists who see through what you are trying to do.

By "tightly focused," I think you understand that to mean the opposite of your big tent, or umbrella approach. Your leadership, all of whom came from either NA or the Church of the Creator -- not a Xian in the bunch -- will be standing in Raleigh with a bunch of Xians who oppose your former connections, and a bunch of uniformed Nazis. Your "success" "using" these people remains to be seen. I repeat: the people of Raleigh will NOT be impressed by your rally and it will only harm Billy's case and WR to be associated with these other groups

---
...We [WR] also have the “chicken pluckers” that Dr. Pierce criticized, the hard-working laborers.
---

Dr. Pierce was referring to Mexican invaders when he used the term chicken pluckers, not Whites. It was in the context of an ADV show he did about Siler City, NC, a town that has imported thousands of mestizo chicken pluckers from Mexico, a town that is now over 50% mestizo. His venom was directed at the White men who own Tyson's, Purdue, Gold Kist, etc., the plants who hire these chicken pluckers, and the White politicians, media whores and Church leaders who collaborate with them. He never denigrated hard labor or hard-working White laborers. He advocated that we should do our own hard labor rather than have Blacks and Mexicans do it for us. The first time I ever met Dr. Pierce I was visiting him in his home. I certainly was impressed when he excused hiself, crawled up under his old trailer home with a bunch of tools and repaired his plumbing and closed up holes where mice had been entering. He never hired laborers for work that he could do himself on Sunday, our day off. It is a bald-faced lie to characterize Dr. Pierce as having taken a dim view of hard labor by Whites. Unlike Gliebe, Dr. Pierce was always very careful with his money and the money members and NVB book-buyers sent to him. The money always went right back into building the Alliance and its sister organizations

---
We are building coalitions with the suit and tie crowd as well as the skinheads and “Kluckers” and “uniformed Nazis” that you look down on. As to the actual members of our organization not being hardcore racists, your comments are not worthy of a response.
---

I never said that WR doesn't have hardcore racists, Ben. You're twisting my words. I've always gotten along just fine with the Kluckers; they respected my honesty with them when I'd preach to them about the fallacy of the Jesus thing for White racists, even though they usually disagreed. I've converted more than a few of them to become strict biological racists. I never tried to use them, nor did I allow them to use the Alliance to spread their convoluted, Jew-inspired Xian principles."

---
It is a shame that you won’t come out and join your comrades on the 21st, however I wish you the best of luck with your clandestine meeting to establish a resistance movement on that day.
---

Who said anything about "clandestine?" There will be hundreds of decent people of good European stock where I'll be; no Nazi uniforms, no coneheads, no enemies flashing their goddamned cameras in our faces, then labeling us as the KKK or NSM or Sons of Yahweh.
(continued)
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #13
White Will
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(continued)
---
I am not afraid of your criticism. In fact, I consider constructive criticism to be healthy. Your track record in the movement has earned you the respect for your opinions to voiced and heard.

I can’t rightfully speak for Chairman Roper’s criticism of some of Dr. Pierce’s failed methods. I believe they were probably a rash reaction to some of the insults you began flinging towards us. I can tell you however that Chairman Roper has a tremendous respect for Dr. Pierce.
---

This smear by Billy is from post #456 from the very long "Erich Gliebe" thread:
"You are correct in saying the Alliance was never an umbrella organization. History will probably describe the NA more like a very fancy and eccentric hat on the head of a cranky, philandering physicist who ran a book club for angry old men. (The “colorful feather” in that hat would, of course, be one Kevin Alfred Strom.)" "Tremendous respect?" Give me a break, Ben.

As you can read, Billy states clearly that I'm correct in my statements about umbrella organizations, so HIS rash, ridiculous smear of Dr. Pierce and Kevin are not some reaction to any legitimate, constructive criticism I've said regarding your expedient big tent approach. Billy has demonstrated that he chafes easily and has a tendency to flame up like a hothead and spew insults that leave his followers off-guard and cringing. I never knew Dr. Pierce to do this, not even once. Your Chairman is the one flinging personal insults that people like you can't rightfully defend or speak for. You can't take his unreasonable comments and smears of Dr. Pierce back. You can't unring the bell. You say you're not afraid of my constructive criticism. Erich cetainly fears it, and maybe Billy does, too. Billy KNOWS that utilizing the umbrella approach to building a revolutionary vanguard is a dishonest approach; Erich probably doesn't. Erich is anything but tightly focused.

Ben, didn't you state in clear language that you prefer to see your followers wearing coats and ties like Dr. Pierce encouraged? How does that jibe with what Billy says here: "It turns out that rejecting and ridiculing Christians and frowning at working-class men who don’t own a suit and tie has proven to be a disastrous recruitment strategy if you are looking for decent White men and women of good European stock." More dishonesty from Chairman Roper? He sets up the straw man that Dr. Pierce somehow "frowned" on working class men. Dr. Pierce frowned on ANYBODY who couldn't get with the program and present himself as normal -- blue collar, white collar or professional.

If all we want to attract is "decent people of good European stock" we have to look no further than the Presbyterian Church or the Republican party, right? These outfits are full of decent folks of good European stock who might fit under your umbrella of White unity, if ONLY you'll compromise your principles just a little more, like not being so racist and intolerant, or make room for the decent queers, the ones of good European stock, that is, and the decent Jews; be just a little more Xian. Where exactly do you folks at WR draw the line, Ben, in an effort to get more warm bodies? I like where Dr. Pierce drew the line, whether you and Billy and Vic and Erich do or not.

Anybody can read Dr. Pierce's words below from 22 years ago to see if he is either "ridiculing" or "rejecting" Christians." He's simply being honest with them, telling them they should not lead double lives or be hypocritical in their deeply held beliefs. This is my favorite line, the one that won me over completely: "Any Alliance member who is also a member of a church or other Christian organization which supports racial mixing or Zionism should decide now where he stands, and he should then resign either from his church or from the Alliance." Now, THAT's honesty! He might as well have written to any Bible-thumping followers: "Go to an umbrella organization that doesn't mind having competing ideologies in its flock."

---
I would like to take this opportunity to publicly thank you for your help with the Billy Brown case. I will admit I was a little troubled when the lawyer you found for him didn’t bother to show up at the court date, but it is my understanding that has all been resolved...Ben Vinyard[/QUOTE]
---

"Resolved?" What are you talking about, you were "a little troubled?" Were you in court that day? Billy and his lawyer crossed in the courthouse. They didn't recognize each other because until then they had only talked on the phone. There was a continuance of the case granted and they met for over an hour later in the day, with his lawyer making several phone calls all over the state trying to line up a top-notch civil attorney to carry your case forward after the criminal portion is completed. Where's Victor in all this? I called or e-mailed him a half-dozen times about this matter, trying to get him involved, with no reply. To my knowledge he nor any these other lawyers you say WR has have ever contacted Billy's lawyer of record. When Billy made unreasonable demands of his lawyer in a letter, Cc'd to me and Vic, his attorney sent Billy his retainer fee back to him, yet on the strength of my friendship with him is STILL going to represent Billy for FREE. You guys don't know how lucky you are to have this lawyer that you're so "troubled" with representing Billy.

I transcribed and posted the following over two months ago in a thread titled, "Dr. Pierce's gift to us is being squandered by his successor." That thread is still archived, Ben, if you want to get to the root of this debate about dueling umbrellas:
(See addendum)
 
Old February 14th, 2004 #14
White Will
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(addendum):

The following is an editorial written by National Alliance Founder and long time Chairman William L. Pierce in the NA Members' BULLETIN early in 1982. It needs no comment:

THE NATIONAL OFFICE has received a few complaints (fewer than expected) from members about what has been perceived as an anti-Christian bias in recent issues of NV [National Vanguard magazine]. One member has resigned.
The complaints fall into two general categories: 1. "I am a Christian. Why are you attacking my religion?" and 2. "I am not a Christian, but many White people are. We must all stick together. To attack Christianity is divisive."
It should first be noted that the National Alliance is not primarily a religious organization --at least, not in the usual sense of the word, although most members are able to recognize the strong spiritual element in the Alliance's message. Second, it should be noted that the National Office is fully aware of the sensitive nature of the Christian religion, and for that reason NV avoided the question for a long time.
This avoidance, however, was in conflict with the Alliance's fundamental obligation to deal forthrightly with 'all' issues of vital concern to the welfare and progress of our race. This obligation where Christianity is concerned has become especially difficult to ignore during the past few months, with the growing strength of the Moral Majority and other right-wing Christian groups and their active participation in political matters. The member who resigned said she was also a member of the Moral Majority. The leader of that organization, the Reverend Jerry Falwell, has been outspoken in his support of Zionism, and he was recently given a Zionist award by Jewish leaders. There exists a clear conflict of interests for any Alliance member who supports such an organization, and the Alliance member should not compromise in matters of this sort.
This is not the place to deal at length with details of religious history and doctrine; NV will continue to have articles on these topics from time to time, and there will be such an article in the April issue. Here, however, a few things will be mentioned briefly for the guidance of Alliance members.
The most important single fact concerning Christianity with which the Alliance must deal is that all the major Christian churches, Catholic and Protestant, liberal and fundamentalist, have openly aligned themselves with the enemies of the White race. The Catholics and the liberal Protestants are vigorously supporting racial mixing, while the fundamentalist Protestants are strong boosters of Zionism. These alignments will become increasingly important factors in our struggle in the years ahead, as the churches become more and more involved in social and political issues. The Jews have already announced their intention to mobilize fundamentalist Christians in their effort to maintain control of the U.S. government. The Alliance cannot remain silent in the face of such developments, for the sake of White unity or anything else.
No honest, conscientious Alliance member can maintain his membership in the Alliance and also in an organization which is fundamentally opposed to the goals and principles of the Alliance. The former member who belongs to the moral majority acted correctly in resigning from the Alliance, and the same applies to others: Any Alliance member who is also a member of a church or other Christian organization which supports racial mixing or Zionism should decide now where he stands, and he should then resign either from his church or from the Alliance.
In fact, the great majority of Alliance members who originally had some Christian church affiliation have already made their decisions and left the churches. Those members who continue to consider themselves Christians either have no church affiliation or belong to very small, independent churches which have pro-White doctrines. It is primarily these members who have objected to the recent treatment of Christianity in NV. "It's all right to attack the big churches," they say, "because those churches have been subverted by the Jews -- but don't attack Christianity itself. What the churches are preaching today isn't really Christianity."
Well, far be it from the National Alliance to decide what is really Christianity. Christians have been fighting with one another over that question for the better part of the last 2,000 years without arriving at an answer acceptable to all parties concerned. From a strictly practical viewpoint, however, we must use the word "Christianity" in NV in the sense in which it is understood by the general public and by the great majority of readers. In that sense, "Christianity" means the lumped together doctrines of the major Christian churches, without regard for all the little quibbles which separate Catholics from Protestants, or ultra-liberal Presbyterians from Holy Rollers and teetotaling Baptists.
Beyond this question of whether it is the race-mixers and Zionists or the pro-Whites who are the real Christians, there are the troubling issues of the non-European origin of Christianity: of the great body of Christian ethical doctrines which are accepted by nearly all the churches but which conflict with White spirituality and the needs for White survival, such as the Sermon on the Mount; and of the body of Old Testament. Jewish mythology -- such as the creation myth of Genesis; the "chosen people" myth, and Isaiah's ravings against all non-Jews, together with his prophesies that the Jews will eventually rule the world and all other races will serve them -- which comes along with most versions of Christianity.
All three of the aforementioned issues are relevant to the mission of the National Alliance, and they cannot be ignored: We must look to our racial roots, and we must rid ourselves of alien influences, including those from the Levant; we must govern ourselves by White values and ethical doctrines, and by no others; and we must concern ourselves with truth alone.
A number of men and women who have understood the first two of these issues but who have, nevertheless, still considered themselves both Christian and pro-White have attempted to resolve the contradiction by denying the Jewish origins of Christianity and by choosing interpretations of Christian ethical doctrines which differ markedly from the commonly accepted ones. They have asserted that not only was Jesus not a Jew, but neither were the people living in Palestine during the Old Testament and the New Testament periods Jews. These people, they say, were actually the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons and other peoples of Europe.
One can argue either way about Jesus, because the historical evidence is insufficient to support a firm conclusion. But the assertion that the people of the Old Testament or the people of Palestine among whom the Christian movement began were Anglo-Saxons, or anything but Semites, for the most part, is demonstrably false. Such assertions can only be maintained by persons who close their eyes to the clear historical record, just as a belief in the creation myth of Genesis can only be maintained by persons who refuse to accept the clear scientific evidence to the contrary.
If, despite everything above, there are Alliance members or prospective Alliance members who still consider themselves Christians, then it must be in the sense that they value the specifically White elements of Christianity which have been added since its origins -- the great art, the great music, and the great architecture produced by White men during the centuries in which the Christian churches ruled Europe -- and that they also share the White spiritual feelings which have been eloquently expressed by many men and women who were Christians and who applied the adjective "Christian" to feelings which, in fact, came from deep within the White race-soul and existed long before the advent of the Christian church.
Such Christians we can call our comrades and be proud to have in our ranks.
 
Old February 15th, 2004 #15
Ben Vinyard
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Will,

I have stated our position on religion. I will state it again: We are a racial organization, not a religious organization. I would type it a hundred times for you if I thought it would make it any clearer. We do not “soften our position” nor do we carefully construct our language to avoid offending anybody. You can continue to claim that we are “dishonest” or “liars” but that doesn’t make the claim any less zany than before.

Maybe you are right that the people of Raleigh will chase us out of town. Maybe they will tar and feather us. Regardless, I will go and have a good time with my kinsmen, listen to some terrific speakers and meet with some of the locals. We won’t save the world that day, nor will we be in another part of town “working with hardcore activists…to build an effective White resistance.” I must admit when you wrote that I imagined a small meeting with 4 or 5 people in a safe house. I am gladdened to learn that my mental image was incorrect and that there will be “hundreds of people of European stock.”

You must be thinking of a different ADV. In the ADV I was talking about Dr. Pierce was definitely talking about White chicken-pluckers. But I don’t want my criticism of Dr. Pierce to appear too harsh lest you think I am waging a smear campaign. Suffice is to say that Dr. Pierce’s ADVs were brilliant and influenced thousands of people. His radio programs were the most effective propaganda we’ve had in the last 30 years and they are not to be duplicated. Certainly not by me and most certainly not by Kevin Alfred Strom, who sounds less like Dr. Pierce and more like my sister.

Yes, I did state in clear language that I would prefer to see our people appear in suits and ties at demonstrations. It was also in clear language that this was as opposed to traditionalist Klan robes and not directed towards working class people, or “White chicken-pluckers,” who can’t afford a suit and tie. Therefore it would be faulty logic for you to conclude that my comments contradicted Chairman Roper’s comment, which you claimed was “more dishonesty,” but was instead a simple statement of fact. Thank you for repeating the message of the top recruiter and the top organizer in our movement. It is profound enough to be repeated again: “It turns out that rejecting and ridiculing Christians and frowning at working-class men who don’t own a suit and tie has proven to be a disastrous recruitment strategy…”

Your comments about accepting jews and queers was gibberish.

When I wrote that I was “a little troubled” it was not over the selection of Billy Brown’s lawyer, but over the fact that his lawyer didn’t show up for court. I am relieved to find out that it was all just a misunderstanding because they didn’t recognize each other in the hallway. Fortunately for us Mr. Brown was able to find his way to the courtroom and stand in front of the judge, even if his lawyer was not.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old February 15th, 2004 #16
Ben Vinyard
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Okie,

The gods may strike us down with a lightning bolt or bring a great famine on the land if we were ever to say anything bad about Dr. Pierce or suggest in any way a more successful recruiting practice.

We are considering carving Chairman Roper's internet postings on giant marble tablets so that years from now our holy scholars will be able to analyze and dissect the meaning of his every offhand remark. Having him bronzed and mounted would have great propaganda value but it wouldn't bring in as much money to the organization or have as much cultural significance as the black velvet Billy Roper painting or the Billy Roper lunchbox.

Ben Vinyard
 
Old February 15th, 2004 #17
White Will
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[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Will,

I have stated our position on religion. I will state it again: We are a racial organization, not a religious organization. I would type it a hundred times for you if I thought it would make it any clearer. We do not “soften our position...”
---

I'll stipulate to that. Of course WR doesn't soften a position that it never took, except that WR states that it won't unnecessarily offend Xians. We certainly wouldn't want to go out on a limb and offend people.

---
Maybe you are right that the people of Raleigh will chase us out of town...We won’t save the world that day, nor will we be in another part of town “working with hardcore activists…to build an effective White resistance.” I must admit when you wrote that I imagined a small meeting with 4 or 5 people in a safe house. I am gladdened to learn that my mental image was incorrect and that there will be “hundreds of people of European stock.”
---

"Another part of town?" You have this thing about conjuring up these mental images, Ben, making false assumptions from them, then presenting those assumptions as argument. I won't even be in North Carolina the day you participate in the clown act on Capitol Square. Anyone who is reading our little exchange here and paying halfway close attention can see how you are twisting things. You take your Chairman's words which I quoted, then ascribe them to me as quotes. That's clever. Fortunately for me, anyone can just jump up a few inches on his monitor screen and see the direct statements I quoted from your Chairman, Billy Roper. I hope you have good weather and a good crowd and good press coverage. I don't wish you anything but good luck next Saturday, but I can still disagree with your stated umbrella approach

---
You must be thinking of a different ADV. In the ADV I was talking about Dr. Pierce was definitely talking about White chicken-pluckers. But I don’t want my criticism of Dr. Pierce to appear too harsh lest you think I am waging a smear campaign.
---

Like Billy's harsh criticism?

---
Suffice is to say that Dr. Pierce’s ADVs were brilliant and influenced thousands of people. His radio programs were the most effective propaganda we’ve had in the last 30 years and they are not to be duplicated. Certainly not by me and most certainly not by Kevin Alfred Strom, who sounds less like Dr. Pierce and more like my sister.
---

Between your personal criticism of KAS and Billy's rash criticism of WLP it sure sounds like an ongoing smear campaign to me. Haven't you fellows of WR already gotten all the former Alliance members over to your ranks that you're going to get without keeping up the cheap shots? Are Pierce and Strom your enemies, or just the competition? Pierce is dead, for Christ's sake! I hope it's not Billy who writes the history of NA, or Victor. Do you criticize the Sons of Yahweh, the Klan, Aryan Nations or the NSM, or any other pro-Whites groups that you use, or do you only reserve such harsh criticism for Pierce and Strom and Pierce loyalists who disagree with your umbrella strategy?

---
Yes, I did state in clear language that I would prefer to see our people appear in suits and ties at demonstrations. It was also in clear language that this was as opposed to traditionalist Klan robes and not directed towards working class people, or “White chicken-pluckers,” who can’t afford a suit and tie.
---

There you go again, using Billy's quotes. I never used such language.

Ben, You do realize that you'll be deliberately standing next Saturday with people in KKK robes, don't you? I can't remember the last time anyone demonstrated in Raleigh in KKK robes. I'd venture to guess it's been twenty years or more, before the White Patriot Party's heyday in the mid-1980's. They were all from around here, wore camoflage fatigues and berets and presented an impressive image. The last fellow who paraded around in Raleigh in a full, homemade Nazi uniform with swastika armband and Nazi flag was none other than "Weird Harold" Covington. He can't even come into North Carolina without being arrested for outstanding criminal warrants, yet you, who prefer to see your people appear in suits and ties will be standing proudly with these uniformed Nazis from somewhere up north.

---
Therefore it would be faulty logic for you to conclude that my comments contradicted Chairman Roper’s comment, which you claimed was “more dishonesty,” but was instead a simple statement of fact. Thank you for repeating the message of the top recruiter and the top organizer in our movement. It is profound enough to be repeated again: “It turns out that rejecting and ridiculing Christians and frowning at working-class men who don’t own a suit and tie has proven to be a disastrous recruitment strategy…”
---

Whatever. I'm curious; when did Billy Roper crown himself as "the top recruiter and the top organizer in our movement?" You can type that a hundred times, as you say, but Billy's continued boasts and self-importance will leave more than a few old-timers snickering. Such hubris might even turn off the newbies. How in the world do you justify such a claim?

---
Your comments about accepting jews and queers was gibberish.
---

You mean this: "If all we want to attract is 'decent people of good European stock' we have to look no further than the Presbyterian Church or the Republican party, right? These outfits are full of decent folks of good European stock who might fit under your umbrella of White unity, if ONLY you'll compromise your principles just a little more, like not being so racist and intolerant, or make room for the decent queers, the ones of good European stock, that is, and the decent Jews; be just a little more Xian. Where exactly do you folks at WR draw the line, Ben, in an effort to get more warm bodies? I like where Dr. Pierce drew the line, whether you and Billy and Vic and Erich do or not."

Dubiously dismissing one's opponent's point in a debate as gibberish, without counterargument, could be seen as the last refuge of the side who is losing the debate. It's those watching the debate who keep score, not the debaters.

Our debate adresses the relative merit of WR's short-term, fast-growth big tent approach v. the more exclusive, more deliberate, long-term, slow-growth approach as advocated by Dr. Pierce; the latter, I propose, being the more honest and more likely to attract the best people. The interesting twist to our debate is that the new NA Chairman, Erich Gliebe, has adopted the same approach as has WR, the umbrella strategy, abandoning what was established and followed so carefully by NA's founder, Dr. Pierce, for over 30 years.

If WR's tent gets much bigger, Ben, you'll be like the Council of Conservative Citizens; they accept Jews and queers. They're not very comfortable being seen arm-in-arm with robed Kluckers and uniformed Nazi, however.
 
Old February 29th, 2004 #18
Augustus Sutter
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[QUOTE=White Will]Ben, your idea of "using" others, especially uniformed Hollywood Nazis and various Xian KKK factions and Sons of Yahweh, and only Yahweh knows who else, is neither viable nor successful, as you'll discover come 2/21 when you hike up here in Raleigh arm-in-arm with that crowd, none of whom are from around here.

No, I won't be there supporting your abortive "formula for success", but I won't be "sitting at home painting pretty pictures all day," either. I take it that you were attempting to insult me with that lame jab. I'll be working that day with the hardcore activists you wish would show up, but won't. I'll be doing what I can to build an effective White resistance, not another clown act.

I'll take your poke at me in stride, friend; it comes with the territory. I have nothing against you for working hard for WR, but I want no part of your umbrella of unity and I don't mind telling you what I think of it -- Gliebe, either, for taking NA in that same direction. I find your approach terribly flawed, expedient, and I know for a fact that those "hardcore racists" you say you are "using" will neither advance your cause nor stand with you when you find your ass in a crack. You may find that they are using you. Good luck!

Who stepped forward when your North Carolina Deputy Governor, Billy Brown, was arrested here in Raleigh, jailed, and faced Federal hate crime charges and $10,000 bail? Who got him his lawyer and is still working with that lawyer to defend Billy? It wasn't WR's Vice Chairman, who is an attorney and lives in this state, just two hours away. It wasn't your Chairman down in Arkansas who is so critical of me for not jumping under your umbrella of unity. I did; it was me, the fellow who you would suggest "sits around and paints pretty pictures all day instead of supporting WR." And I did it because I'm able to and was willing to help Billy when nobody else was. You guys would do better to get behind Billy Brown's defense, raise funds, formulate a winning legal strategy, then fight with all your collective might the establishment that illegally dares to say you can't distribute racist literature -- than by trying to build unity with the hardcore racists of the Sons of Yahweh, the NSM and the various factions of the Xian KKK. You'll be laughed out of town, believe me. You don't know my city, and you certainly will not be helping Billy's case by projecting such an image of White Revolution.

Three or four years ago, before I convinced Dr. Pierce he should hire Billy Roper to help coordinate the membership activities of the National Alliance, our activists here organized a demonstration protesting the Mexican invasion in an adjoining county. We had what was estimated at over 1,000 people show up for that event, mostly local folks -- no robed Kluckers, no uniformed Nazis and barely a dozen counterprotesters. All the regional TV stations featured our protest on their evening newscasts, and all the local papers featured our extremely well organized event on their front pages the next day, with the Charlotte Observer headlining it as the largest Nazi rally in 15 years. Of course, it was not a "Nazi rally" at all and the good White folks who participated didn't appreciate being characterized as such in the controlled media. It was a positive eye-opener for a lot of White folks around these parts and put the invaders and their White collaborators on notice.

For all WR's chest-beating about much smaller rallies organized by Billy (he forgets, under the auspices of the National Alliance) once he went to work for Dr. Pierce, the man whose name he smears now, and for all the "momentum" you claim to have built, and for all the "forward marching" with your uniformed Nazis, Creators, Skinheads, KKK, Aryan Nations and other Identy Xians, you have come nowhere near approaching the success of that National Alliance anti-immigration rally that we put together in the little town of Siler City, NC.

Now, I'd like to make a couple of comments concerning my "pretty pictures."

I decided to be an artist nearly 20 years ago so that I could be active full time in racial politics. If being a painter was good enough for Messrs. Hitler and Rockwell and Zundel and others, I figured it was good enough for me, too; better than working my ass off, spending all my waking hours as a designer/builder/developer, as I had been doing for years before my commitment, and infinitely better than being tied up as a wage slave, dependent on "the man" as to whether or not I can get off next Saturday to stand with my kinsmen -- like you apparently are. I structured my life where I could be a fulltime political soldier without being easily defunctionalized by JOG. I happen to be a pretty fair painter as it turned out, but being an artist has never been more than cover for my political work. I've managed to use my artistic talents, mostly portraiture, for the Cause when I could, usually donating my work."




Will, aren't you the Will I met at the Spring 1999 NA leadership conference. The same Will who was a retired major from the SF's. I'm just trying to get my Wills right, I'm new to the Forum. If you are that Will you don't have to defend your art against a he man like Ben. You know, at that conference I sat next the Gliebster and Lawrence Meyers. I was wholly un-impressed with Gliebster. In fact I thought he was an idiot. The speech he made proved, to me, he was barely literate. I remember he said to me "Did you read the bulletin last month, that was me they talking about". He reminded me of some JV wrestler who got his name in the school newspaper. Meyers on the other hand was a great speaker and had a great speaking voice. I have to admit as much as I liked Dr Pierce's ADV broadcasts - I did not like him. I had the idea he fancied himself some kind of great judge of men, and that he judged other men against himself - whom I believe he was quite taken with. Looking back he proved to be a horrible judge of character, given that he put so much stock in the Giebster and his hermaphroditic sidekick KAS. I belonged to the NJ unit and Pierce's hand- picked coordinator there, while being likeable and affable enough, was about as bright as a bag of hammers. I joined the NA because it was the only organization out there that I believed had even a small chance of success. I wanted it to succeed, but deep down I knew it wasn't going anywhere. I beleve that much of Billy's assessment of the NA under Dr. Pierce's stewardship is correct. For my part, in retrospect, Pierce was the ultimate big talker. He would never put his own ass on the line the way George Lincoln Rockwell did, and at the same time he would exort the members of his organization to put their ass on the line. Pierce made it clear that if you got in trouble carrying out his orders he would leave you up shits creek and move on to the next dummy. Stay the fuck out my foxhole. The 400 acre compound was not a "White Zion" as he refferred to it, but a Dr. Pierce Ponderosa. I stayed on another 8 months after the drooling idiot took over. Now that I have been out for almost a year I feel as though it was a complete waste of time and money and not just because the functionally illiterate Gliebe "ruined the organization". I'm sorry, it was a sham and scam when Dr. Pierce was still there. I give him credit for some effective broadcasts and writing some mildly entertaining, informative and instructive novels.

I also have to say that I like Billy and he has tried to address many of the obvious drawbacks of the NA in WR. However, I believe WR is also going nowhere. Umbrella orgainzations don't change anything or ever have any real clout. The Jews have an umbrella organization and most people don't know its name, people do however know the name of the ADL. In reality, things are to far gone for any fledging organization to reverse what the jews have wrought. I think it would be absolutel pointless for people to waste their time and risk problems with ZOG at this point to try and change things. Wait a few more years and ZOG's goose will be cooked. They thought they were going to slow boil us like a Lobster but they have truned the flame up too high and things are now out of control. Like Edgar Steele, I believe blow up day is near and we should try and make ourselves as ready for it as possible. The Jew ZOG scheme will fail as have all their other schemes. They don't have another 100 years to slowly wipe us out with shit-skin immigration and Jew-tv. They don't even have 10 years left, probabaly not even 5. You know if the Jews were really so clever they would not have to live as they do. In fact they are not clever at all and that is why they always fail. So I say keep your nose clean. Raise your children with the truth about Race and all of its realities. Train yourself to be self-reliant and to be as ready as possible to crack skulls- you are going to need it.

Last edited by Augustus Sutter; August 7th, 2004 at 10:34 AM.
 
Old February 29th, 2004 #19
Mike Mazzone of Palatine
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Speaking of double minded, what the hell is the difference between the Aryan Nations and The Sons Of Yhvh anyway? Wasn't one religious org of Jewsus freaks enough? Was there a division on some issue up at the compound, perhaps on how to best please the big Jew in the sky?
 
Old February 29th, 2004 #20
Rob Roy MacGregor
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Rob Roy MacGregor
Default This would spook any potential member away...

NOT good PR.


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