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Old December 16th, 2005 #1
Red Guard
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Default Alleged Relation Between Jews, Armenians, and Kurds

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In 2001, a team of Israeli, German, and Indian scientists discovered that the majority of Jews around the world are closely related to the Kurdish people -- more closely than they are to the Semitic-speaking Arabs or any other population that was tested. The researchers sampled a total of 526 Y-chromosomes from 6 populations (Kurdish Jews, Kurdish Muslims, Palestinian Arabs, Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazic Jews, and Bedouin from southern Israel) and added extra data on 1321 persons from 12 populations (including Russians, Belarusians, Poles, Berbers, Portuguese, Spaniards, Arabs, Armenians, and Anatolian Turks). Most of the 95 Kurdish Muslim test subjects came from northern Iraq. Ashkenazic Jews have ancestors who lived in central and eastern Europe, while Sephardic Jews have ancestors from southwestern Europe, northern Africa, and the Middle East. The Kurdish Jews and Sephardic Jews were found to be very close to each other. Both of these Jewish populations differed somewhat from Ashkenazic Jews, who mixed with European peoples during their diaspora. The researchers suggested that the approximately 12.7 percent of Ashkenazic Jews who have the Eu 19 chromosomes -- which are found among between 54 and 60 percent of Eastern European Christians -- descend paternally from eastern Europeans (such as Slavs) or Khazars. But the majority of Ashkenazic Jews, who possess Eu 9 and other chromosomes, descend paternally from Judeans who lived in Israel two thousand years ago. In the article in the November 2001 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics, Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University of Israel wrote that this new study revealed that Jews have a closer genetic relationship to populations in the northern Mediterranean (Kurds, Anatolian Turks, and Armenians) than to populations in the southern Mediterranean (Arabs and Bedouins).

A previous study by Ariella Oppenheim and her colleagues, published in Human Genetics in December 2000, showed that about 70 percent of Jewish paternal ancestries and about 82 percent of Palestinian Arabs share the same chromosomal pool. The geneticists asserted that this might support the claim that Palestinian Arabs descend in part from Judeans who converted to Islam. With their closer relationship to Jews, the Palestinian Arabs are distinctive from other Arab groups, such as Syrians, Lebanese, Saudis, and Iraqis, who have less of a connection to Jews.

A study by Michael Hammer et al., published in PNAS in June 2000, had identified a genetic connection between Arabs (especially Syrians and Palestinians) and Jews, but had not tested Kurds, so it was less complete.

Many Kurds have the "Jewish" Cohen Modal Haplotype

In the 1990s, a team of scientists (including the geneticist Michael Hammer, the nephrologist Karl Skorecki, and their colleagues in England) discovered the existence of a haplotype which they termed the "Cohen modal haplotype" (abbreviated as CMH). Cohen is the Hebrew word for "priest", and designates descendants of Judean priests from two thousand years ago. Initial research indicated that while only about 3 percent of general Jews have this haplotype, 45 percent of Ashkenazic Cohens have it, while 56 percent of Sephardic Cohens have it. David Goldstein, an evolutionary geneticist at Oxford University, said: "It looks like this chromosomal type was a constituent of the ancestral Hebrew population." Some Jewish rabbis used the Cohen study to argue that all Cohens with the CMH had descended from Aaron, a High Priest who lived about 3500 years ago, as the Torah claimed. Shortly after, it was determined that 53 percent of the Buba clan of the Lemba people of southern Africa have the CMH, compared to 9 percent of non-Buba Lembas. The Lembas claim descent from ancient Israelites, and they follow certain Jewish practices such as circumcision and refraining from eating pork, and for many geneticists and historians the genetic evidence seemed to verify their claim.

However, it soon became apparent that the CMH is not specific to Jews or descendants of Jews. In a 1998 article in Science News, Dr. Skorecki indicated (in an interview) that some non-Jews also possess the Cohen markers, and that the markers are therefore not "unique or special". The CMH is very common among Iraqi Kurds, according to a 1999 study by C. Brinkmann et al. And in her 2001 article, Oppenheim wrote: "The dominant haplotype of the Muslim Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step apart from the CMH..." (Oppenheim 2001, page 1100). Furthermore, the CMH is also found among some Armenians, according to Dr. Levon Yepiskoposyan (Head of the Institute of Man in Yerevan, Armenia), who has studied genetics for many years. Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin wrote: "The suggestion that the 'Cohen modal haplotype' is a signature haplotype for the ancient Hebrew population is also not supported by data from other populations." (Zoossmann-Diskin 2000, page 156).

In short, the CMH is a genetic marker from the northern Middle East which is not unique to Jews. However, its existence among many Kurds and Armenians, as well as some Italians and Hungarians, would seem to support the overall contention that Kurds and Armenians are the close relatives of modern Jews and that the majority of today's Jews have paternal ancestry from the northeastern Mediterranean region.

The Jewish Kingdom of Adiabene in Ancient Kurdistan

In ancient times, the royal house of Adiabene and some of the common people of Adiabene converted to Judaism. The capital city of Adiabene was Arbela (known today by Arabs as Irbil and by Kurds as Hawler). King Izates became closely attached to his new faith, and sent his sons to study Hebrew and Jewish customs in Jerusalem. His successor to the throne was his brother Monobazos II, who also adopted Judaism. In her 2001 study, Oppenheim references the kingdom of Adiabene, but suggests that while Adiabene's conversion to Judaism "resulted in the assimilation of non-Jews into the community... This recorded conversion does not appear to have had a considerable effect on the Y chromosome pool of the Kurdish Jews." (Oppenheim 2001, page 1103). Some of the Jewish Adiabenians may have eventually converted to Christianity.

Conclusions

Research has just begun into the ancient ties between Kurds and Jews. It would be interesting to see if the various Jewish groups have as strong a family tie to Kurds in the maternal lineages as they do in the paternal lineages. Preliminary studies indicate that Jewish populations in eastern Europe and Yemen have maternal origins that contain much more non-Israelite ancestry than their paternal origins. Despite this admixture with other groups, the Jewish Judean people ultimately began their existence in an area within or nearby Kurdistan, prior to migrating southwest to Israel. This exciting research showing that Kurds and Jews may have shared common fathers several millennia ago should, hopefully, encourage both Kurds and Jews to explore each others' cultures and to maintain the friendship that Kurds and Jews enjoyed in northern Iraq in recent times (as chronicled in Michael Rubin's recent article "The Other Iraq"). As Rubin indicates, the Kurdish leader Mullah Mustafa Barzani once visited Israel and met with Israeli government officials. Rubin refers to the Iraqi Kurds' "special affinity for Israel" and writes that "In the safe haven of Iraqi Kurdistan, the Jews and Israel are remembered fondly, if increasingly vaguely." Let us hope that this relationship can be renewed and strengthened
I am highly skepitical of these allegations and perceive that this is just an attempt for Jews to justify their presence in Palestine by asserting that they bear relation with the inidgenous Arab speakers of the land. Many of these purports do not add up. How can the Jews be related to Turks, Armenians, and Kurds--groups who hold stark differences in terms of language and history? To deny the relations of Jews with other Semites would be like saying that the Swedish are unrelated to every Germanic group but are very closely related to the people of Rumania and Bulgaria.

The Turks in Anatolia are the descendents of Turkic intruders from what is today Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan, and Turkmenistan. Along the way, they may have absorbed the indigenous peoples of Anatolia.

The Armenians are an Indo-European people whose ancestry traces to the peoples of Urartu and Phrygia; their language is unrelated to any major world language. There are virtually no Jews in their republic and am dubious that there have ever been. From what I've seen, Armenians are a classically Mediterranean people with dark hair, large eyes, imperfect Roman-esque noses, and a usually fair complexion

Though I do not know a whole lot about the Kurds, their language is essentially another variation of Persian.
 
Old December 23rd, 2005 #2
Armenian...
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Good post, several additional things to consider:

Genetically, it is true that many Jews, especially the Ashkenazi, trace their genealogy to Anatolian peoples. Ancient Anatolians were a relatively distinct group of peoples. The term sometimes used to refer to this 'sub' group of the white race is "Armenoid" or Armenid. Features: curved nose, stocky build, long face, sloping forehead, large head, warlike, intelligent.

It is important to consider that Anatolia's Armenid natives such as the Hittites, Hurrians, Mitanni and the Hyksos were the most advanced powers of the second millennium BC. These aforementioned nations ruled all of the Levant and Palestine down to the borders of Egypt for well over a thousand years. One of King Solomon's wives was an Anatolian. King David bought Jerusalem from Anatolians. Even Akenaton's wife, Nefertiti, was a *Mitanni* from the Armenian Highlands.

The sacred scriptures of Hebrews themselves strongly suggest Anatolian origin. The Garden of Eden is thought to be within the Armenian Highlands. After the great flood, Noah's ark landed upon Ararat, the very sacred holy mountain of Armenians. Advanced Anatolian civilization was introduced into the known world very early during antiquity. The catalyst for this spread were the Hittites, Hurrians, Hyksos, the Mitanni and the Urartian federation.

In short: I am suggesting that the ancient Hebrews were either aboriginal Anatolians who migrated south, or, got their sacred traditions from Anatolian invaders of Palestine. Either way, Anatolian influence witin Palestine during antiquity accounts for the "Armenid" blood prevalent within various peoples there.
 
Old December 23rd, 2005 #3
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Regarding Armenian heritage and genetics:

Armenians have the most ancient Indo European (Aryan) culture within the world and, genetically, pure Armenians are true Caucasians. According to most respectable genetics experts and anthropologists, Armenian genetic strains contain a varied mix of several sub-groups of the Caucasian race: Mediterranean, Alpine, Dinaric. The mix of the aforementioned is at times refered to as "Armenoid" (Armenid). Armenians, in essence, reflect the unique racial demographics of Asia Minor as it existed thousands of years ago at a time when Indo-European nations (proto-Greek, Armenian, Hittite and Iranian), Caucasian nations (Hurrians, Urartians, Alans) and Mesopotamian nations (Assyrians, Babylonians, Sumerians) were living adjacent to one another.

Modern Armenians today are a product of this ancient mix. Subsequently, it is natural that some Armenians may look as *Nordic* as Germans and others look as *Mesopotamian* as Assyrians. Thus, there are *light* skinned Armenians and *olive* skinned Armenians and both types, regardless of pigmentation, are true Armenians in every sense.

Regarding the genetic connection between Middle Easterners, Jews, Turks and Armenians:

Proto-Armenians of Asia Minor and southern Caucasus spread throughout Europe, Asia and the Middle East in very large numbers beginning very early during the region's pre-history - most probably during the time of the Indo-European language diffusion some four to six thousand years ago. As a result, you would find a great numbers of the so-called "Armenid" types occurring within the Anatolia, Caucasus, Balkans, Central Asia, Levant and Palestine.

However, that does not mean that Armenians are the progenies of Semitic or Turkic tribes. It simply means that the Semitic and Turkic nations of the Middle East, Central Asia and the Caucasus have absorbed large amounts of "Armenid" genetic traits throughout history and, thus, are today indirectly related to Armenians -- not the other way around.

The following are two theories of mine as to how 'Ashkenazi' Jews came to be related to Armenians genetically.

Theory One:

Majority of Jews today, approximately 80%, are of Ashkenazi background. It is well known that Ashkenazi Jews today are of Semitic, Slavic, Turkic and Caucasian decent. It is also well known that Ashkenazi Jews orginated within Khazaria, a Turanid peoples of mixed heritage, during the middle ages. Since the Khazars ruled a region that also had a large numbers of Armenids, Khazar naturally absorbed Armenid strains as well and this would naturally aplly to their off shoots - the Ashkenazi Jews. The Khazar/Ashkenazi tribes also had ancient Scythian/Cimmerian genetic strains. After invading Asia Minor during the eight century BC, Scythians and Cimmerians became an element within the Armenian race as well, which was at the time just beginning to take form. It is interesting to note that the Armenian city of Kumayri (formerly Leninakan) derives its name from the Cimmerian settlers.

Theory Two:

I believe that proto-Jews/Hebrews, that is, the prehistoric tribes that eventually became the historic Hebrews of Palestine, dwelt originally with the Armenian Highlands. Genetic testing of Jews today clearly suggest that their racial origins were within Anatolia - not Palestine. Moreover, their sacred folklore, found within the so-called "Old Testament" texts (Hebrew Torah) also suggest this. Furthermore, realize that for over a thousand years various Armenid tribes from the Armenian Highlands ruled the Levant and Palestine, and, at times, all the way down to Egypt. Therefore, it is quite natural that the Armenid genetic strains of these invaders would be found within the peoples of the region in question.

Thus, there are obvious genetic similarities between Armenians and Jews, namely through the aforementioned factors.

In the opinion of many prominent Russian, Armenian, American and European anthropologists and linguists, it was through Asia Minor and the Caucasus that Indo-European (Aryan) civilization was brought into Eurasia. We Armenians today are the last surviving tribe of those pre-historic Aryans. What's more, realize that this 'Aryan' racial type does not equate with blonde and blue eyed peoples. The blonde and blue eyed Aryan was a fairytale that Nazis sold to Europeans. Genetically speaking, Aryans were Caucasian tribes who spoke a similar language. We Armenians today are essentially a conglomeration of these ancient aborniginal Indo-European "Aryans" of Asia Minor and non-Indo-European "Caucasian" peoples such as the Hurrians and the Urartians. The Armenian people began forming, as a nation, approximately four thousand years ago, however, it was only during the classical period that the final product took form.

As a nation, Armenians have not mixed with any other nationality within the past two thousand years. Throughout history, it was the Armenian genetic pool that was disseminated throughout the Eurasia, Near East and the Caucasus -- not the other way around. In short, the various racial strains found within the Armenian people today occurred during the primordial developmental phase of the Armenian people.

During the Islamic era of the Caliphates and later the during the Ottoman rule, traffic of genetics were virtually one way. First Arabs and later Turks always took large numbers of Armenians out of the Armenian gene pool, often the cream of our nation was taken away from us for centuries. Moreover, there were strict rules regarding intermarriage within Christian Armenian society that distanced Armenians from their neighboring non-Christian nations. Nevertheless, Turks, or Asiatics, did not leave a genetic strain upon the Armenian people.

Nonetheless, it is obvious that there is some genetic damage within Armenians today. I would say a good ten-fifteen percent of all Armenians look Semitic (this Semitic incursion is most probably due to the absorption of Middle Eastern Christians into Armenian society). This does not mean, however, that the rest of the ninty to eighty-five percent of Armenians are Nordic. As stated above, Armenians are primerily an Alpine race with Medd and Dinaric infusion. And this mix, more often than not, is brunette.
 
Old January 2nd, 2006 #4
Tornado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelhaken
I haven't heard from an Armenian in four weeks, and oddly enough, that's the same amount of time I haven't heard about The Armenian Holocaust™.
"TM" stands for "TRADE MARK". As far as I know, Armenians don't have such an industry.

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One thing's for sure, Armenians, Georgians and Azerbaijanis, all next door neighbors in the Caucasus, are White and definitely not Asiatics.
Azerbaijanis are not native to the region and are closely related to turks. They invaded what used to be Caucasian Albania whose population was Christian Albanians and wiped them out.



Mesrob Mashtots, the inventor of the Armenian alphabet also invented the Georgian alphabet as well as an alphabet for the Caucasian Albanians, but that one is a dead language now that the Albanians are gone and the Azerbaijani turks destroyed everything they could.
 
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