View Single Post
Old July 12th, 2008 #596
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta:

Quote:
OK, as I’m a coward and homosexual, like all my butt buddies at holohoax controversies, I’ll do exactly what he suggests. I’ll try to put together documentation that I think must be reasonably accepted as proof of Gerdes’ requirements (of course I nowhere said that I have all this documentation available already, unlike lying Gerdes is now trying to believe) and to have it published in either SKEPTIC and ARCHAEOLOGY magazine. I have no idea how long it will take me to do that, assuming I can put together the time and money required, obtain the permissions necessary to conduct archeological investigations and find archeologists and forensic experts to prepare the reports, drawings and other elements I described. When I have gathered all this documentation and succeeded in having it published in SKEPTIC or ARCHAEOLOGY magazine – that should be the least of problems, as either of them will probably be crazy for such documentation – , I shall report back and claim the reward. And if Gerdes should then refuse to pay it, we shall see what a court of law says about whether or not the documentation presented complies with Gerdes’ challenge requirements.

All I further need for now is Mr. Gerdes' legally binding undertaking that the challenge requirements according to which the documentation submitted will be assessed shall at all times be those set out in the quote below. This means that even if Gerdes should later reformulate the requirements of his challenge, the requirements valid for my submission will still be the ones set out below, and that if he should consider these requirements met or a court of law should decide that they have been met, he will pay me the net sum of 100,000 US dollars and, if the further conditions specified in the quote below are also met, also donate 5,000 US dollars to The Sobibor Archaeology Project (I don’t remember having said anything about a "giant" pile of ash, by the way - looks like we have another straw-man here).
Boy, I must have pissed off the asshole even more than usual for him to even mess with what I wrote in post # 566 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=566 – and as he cannot keep silent about what his heart is obviously full of (cowardice and homosexuality), what he substituted for my writing had to be something like the "OK, as I’m a coward and homosexual, like all my butt buddies at holohoax controversies," - crap. What I wrote before "I’ll do exactly what he suggests" must have hit a raw nerve, presumably also because Gerdes is aware of how true it is:

Quote:
By reasonable standards of evidence it would be sufficient to refer to all the documentary, physical and eyewitness evidence that proves mass murder at all and any of the camps in question, for such proof logically includes proof of any given mass grave at any "exact" location within the respective camp and of any "exact" dimensions that this mass murder required and implied, as it also proves any amount of human remains in any mass grave that is associated to the method for body disposal and concealment of the remains that evidence shows to have been applied and to the also documented subsequent robbery digging.

But we’re not talking about reasonable standards here. We’re talking about the unreasonable standards of Mr. Gerdes, who wants to see specific evidentiary documentation about the "exact" location of a specific mass grave, the "exact" dimensions of that mass grave and the contents of that specific mass grave in terms of human remains. To meet these unreasonable requirements, I have proposed the kind of documentation listed in my specification, and asked Gerdes to tell what other or what further documentation he would like to see to consider his requirements fulfilled, should he consider the documentation I described insufficient to meet his demands.

Now, I assuming I published documentation of the kind described in SKEPTIC or ARCHAEOLOGY magazine, how do I know that Gerdes will even look at the contents of this documentation and tell me whether or not those contents meet the requirements for his reward?

How do I know he’s not simply going to say, "No, that’s not the kind of documentation I wanted to see, I wanted air photographs on which the outlines of the mass graves can be clearly seen, and a GPR analysis of the mass grave’s dimensions, and as concerns human remains I’m only interested in whole bodies and want photographs of all of them" ?

If the documentation I described is not what Gerdes wants, he should specify what exactly he wants before any applicant goes about investing considerable time, effort and money in trying to gather documentation to meet Gerdes’ requirements.

That’s why Gerdes’ refusal to tell me what exactly he wants to see beforehand, and his hiding behind silly, meaningless catchphrases ("what part of the word exact don’t you understand", "what part of the word proof don’t you understand", and other such bullshit) is proof not only of his cowardice, but also of his dishonesty and of the fraudulent nature of his "challenge". QED.

But OK, as I’m not a coward and hoaxer like Gerdes, I’ll do exactly what he suggests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Looks like Roberta has accepted THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE!
Nothing to make a fuss about, actually. I’ve become so interested in the subsoil of these camps, especially Sobibor, that I intend to find out as much as I can about it for this reason already. If I can get my findings published in Archeology or Skeptic magazine, or at least co-author an article in one of those publications, that would be great. And if doing so furthermore forces an intellectual midget and lowly piece of scum to pay me 100,000 dollars, that would be the icing on the cake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
But have you noticed her continued, absolutely insane blather about the "huge pile of human ash!" She's so far gone she just can't help herself.
Gerdes seems to be referring to the following part of my specification of his requirements:

Quote:
2. The pile of ashes in the glass display at Sobibor

The documentation required and accepted, for the purposes of the NAFCASH challenge, as proof that the ashes in the glass display at Sobibor shown under http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5968_1_web.jpg , or in another glass display pertaining to the same memorial site, are in fact human ashes, is a report by a forensic expert based on the assessment of a reasonable number of samples taken from that pile.
I don’t see the word "huge" anywhere here, and I also don’t remember having used it before in what concerns the contents of this glass display. If what Gerdes want to be checked is not only the contents of the glass display:



but the contents of the whole memorial mound at Sobibor of which this glass display seems to be a part, and which is shown on this picture:



I also have no problem with that. In this case item 2 of my specification must be reworded as follows:

Quote:
2. The mound of ashes at Sobibor

The documentation required and accepted, for the purposes of the NAFCASH challenge, as proof that the ashes in the mound at Sobibor shown under http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5964_1_web.jpg are in fact human ashes, is a report by a forensic expert based on the assessment of a reasonable number of samples taken from that mound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo, the Challenge is what it is, nothing more, and nothing less. What you see on the nafcash website IS legally binding. The conditions set forth in said website are what they are, as well as the bonus Sobibor reward concerning said "huge pile of human ash" that I've presented here. No amount of your insane mental gymnastics will change what I've laid out here and/or on the nafcash site.
Come on, Gerdes, cut the crap. I have no problem with the NAFCASH challenge requirements as they are worded now. What I want to make sure is that, if in a year or two an article about my findings at Sobibor or another camp should be published in SKEPTIC or ARCHAEOLOGY magazine, Gerdes has not by that time shifted the goalposts and is requiring applicants to the reward to meet further or entirely different requirements. Hence my request for confirmation that, for the purpose of my submittal of evidence to meet the challenge, whenever that evidence should be published in SKEPTIC or ARCHEOLOGY magazine, the challenge requirements will be what they are at the present moment, i.e. the following:

Quote:
Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged "pure extermination center" canard, The National Association of Forensic Criminologists, Archeologists, Skeptics and Historians TM - http://nafcash.com/ - is offering a $100,000.00 REWARD for locating JUST ONE of the alleged “HUGE MASS GRAVES” of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor or Treblinka.

NAFCASH TM presents - THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM

You must prove the grave’s exact location and its exact dimensions - however, to qualify for the reward; You need only to prove that the grave contains the remains of just one percent of the alleged mass murder.

JUST ONE CAMP! - JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!

* * * * *

Since Michael Shermer (who is also the president of the “Skeptics” Society and publisher of “SKEPTIC” magazine) has such disdain for real skeptics (i.e. - intelligent / logical people who refuse to share his delusion that millions of jews can magically vanish from the face of the earth without leaving a trace), “SKEPTIC” magazine should be more than willing to publish the results of any scientific investigation that claims to have proven that the asinine pure extermination center legend has been forensically proven to be a fact. Therefore, all one has to do to become a claimant for THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward is to have said claims / results published in “SKEPTIC” Magazine. Now, just how hard should it be for the “we-must-see-compelling-evidence-before-we-believe” sham “Skeptics” Society to prove just 1% of the alleged mass murder - IF the official story is true?

Since the Archaeology Institute of America has explicitly endorsed the veracity of the official version of the holocaust / pure extermination centers and the authenticity of these alleged archeological investigations / findings, ARCHAEOLOGY MAGAZINE (published by said institute) should be more than willing to publish the results of any scientific investigation that claims to have proven that these asinine pure extermination center legends have been forensically proven to be a fact. Therefore, one can also lay claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward by having said claims / results published in ARCHAEOLOGY Magazine.


* * * * *

(Reuters - Nov., 23, 2001)

MASS GRAVES FOUND AT NAZI POLISH DEATH CAMP

"Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said on Friday they had found mass graves at the site, which was evacuated by German occupying forces in October 1943 after a prisoner uprising. The excavations were the first since World War Two at the former camp, which was subsequently forested over. They could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims, mainly Jews, who died in the Sobibor gas chambers. According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor, which was opened in May 1942 and lies close to the eastern border with Ukraine. ''We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned,'' archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 meters by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters."

Now, let’s look at this largest of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Sobibor.

If the largest of these alleged "huge mass graves" comprises 36.84% of the total alleged volume of all 7 graves combined and the alleged death toll of Sobibor is 250,000, then 36.84% of 250,000 is 92,100, which means, the largest alleged “huge mass grave” of Sobibor contains the remains of 92,100 jews.

So, 1% of the alleged mass murder is of course 2,500, and 2,500 is only 2.714% of the total number of those alleged to have be buried in the largest of the “huge mass graves” of Sobibor. So the question is: Just how hard would it be to identify and quantify the contents of just 2.714% of said “huge mass grave?”

Now, if this alleged “huge mass grave” has a surface area of 70 x 25 meters, that means its square meter surface area is 1,750. And if we assume that there is only one layer of bodies in a “state of decay / wax-fat transformation,” at the bottom of this phantom grave and we assume a density of only 1.5 bodies per square meter, then the layer of bodies in a “state of decay / wax-fat transformation” would come to 2,625 – or, 125 more bodies in said phantom “huge mass grave” than needed to win THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE requirement of proving the existence of the remains of just 2,500 bodies in a single “huge mass grave.” (At Sobibor.)

So the question is:

Why hasn’t anyone laid claim to the $100,000.00 reward yet?

If we already know the graves exact dimensions, then it goes without saying that the graves exact location must also be known. So that’s two out of the three requirements that have allegedly already been met. And since this “huge mass grave” has allegedly already been excavated, then a blind man with a toy plastic shovel could quantify the layer of bodies said to be on the bottom of this phantom “huge mass grave” and thus easily prove the third and last requirement for laying claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE reward.

So again, the question that must be asked is:

Why hasn’t anyone laid claim to the $100,000.00 reward yet?


* NEW SOBIBOR BONUS REWARD! *

If the winner of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE does so by way of the “huge mass grave” of Sobibor, then nafcash will donate $5,000.00 in the winners name to The Sobibor Archaeology Project if said winner can also prove that Sobibors alleged “giant pile of human ash” is actually composed of human ash.

Please note: The only people who are currently eligible for the Sobibor bonus reward are: Andrzej Kola, Michael Shermer, Alex Grobman, Andrew Mathias, Roberto Muehlenkamp, Jonathan Harrison, Nick Terry and Sergey Romanov.

See all the photos (sic) of the "huge mass graves" and of the "excavations" (sic) at Sobibor and get all the information needed to lay claim to nafcash's $100,000.00 THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE reward via Sobibor and said bonus reward here:

http://undersobibor.org/
Gerdes is requested to confirm, by e-mail sent to my address [email protected] , that his requirements as stated in the above quote shall remain unaltered for the purpose of my submittal to the challenge, whenever that should happen, and that meeting these requirements according to Gerdes’ assessment or the assessment of a competent court of law will earn me the promised monetary reward as described above. The reason why I request a confirmation by e-mail is that whatever is written on this forum may be deleted at any moment by the moderators (on another White forum I’ve seen a whole thread disappear from one day to the next) and then no evidentiary record of Gerdes’ commitment would be left.

So please send me that e-mail, will you, Gerdes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"If the documentation I described is not what Gerdes wants, he should specify what exactly he wants before any applicant goes about investing considerable time, effort and money in trying to gather documentation to meet Gerdes’ requirements."

What part of proof don't you understand Roberta?
I have no problem at all with the word proof, but Gerdes seems to have such a big problem with it that he is not even able to specify and detail his own unreasonable standards of proof.

Or must I understand the above in the sense that Gerdes submits to reasonable standards of proof, such as are applied in criminal investigation and historical research?

If that’s the understanding, I have no further questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
And have you noticed that Roberta is actually admiting that Kola never proved the Belzec holocaust? LOL!!!
Gerdes’ capacity for wishful thinking never ceases to amaze me, but what part of this:

Quote:
By reasonable standards of evidence it would be sufficient to refer to all the documentary, physical and eyewitness evidence that proves mass murder at all and any of the camps in question, for such proof logically includes proof of any given mass grave at any "exact" location within the respective camp and of any "exact" dimensions that this mass murder required and implied, as it also proves any amount of human remains in any mass grave that is associated to the method for body disposal and concealment of the remains that evidence shows to have been applied and to the also documented subsequent robbery digging.

But we’re not talking about reasonable standards here. We’re talking about the unreasonable standards of Mr. Gerdes, who wants to see specific evidentiary documentation about the "exact" location of a specific mass grave, the "exact" dimensions of that mass grave and the contents of that specific mass grave in terms of human remains. To meet these unreasonable requirements, I have proposed the kind of documentation listed in my specification, and asked Gerdes to tell what other or what further documentation he would like to see to consider his requirements fulfilled, should he consider the documentation I described insufficient to meet his demands.
could possibly have been too hard for even his sparrow-brain to understand?

And if Gerdes, as he seems to be signaling with his "What part of proof don't you understand" - howling, is submitting to reasonable standards of proof for meeting his unreasonable challenge demands, the question mentioned in the second paragraph of the above quote has also been answered. As concerns Belzec, this means that Prof. Kola’s study has met the "exact location" and "exact dimensions" requirements of the NAFCASH challenge regarding any of the 33 mass graves the archeologist identified. The only thing Kola did not do was to excavate and quantify the remains inside any given mass grave, which is why his report is not sufficient to meet Gerdes "1 %" quantification requirement and be entitled to the NAFCASH reward. But this doesn’t make Kola’s study into anything other than a valuable assessment of the Belzec physical evidence for the purposes of historical knowledge, one that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the physical evidence present at Belzec matches the eyewitness and documentary evidence by which the mass killings at that camp have been proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Again, EVERYTHING needed to understand EXACTLY what is required to lay claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE can be found on the nafcash site and the bonus reward is what I have laid out here. Nothing could be simpler than understanding what the conditions are, despite Roberta's bazaar mental gymnastics routine to alter them.
Again, Gerdes, cut the crap. I'm not trying to alter anything. I'm trying to make sure that my eventual claim to the reward is not affected by what you may feel like changing on the NAFCASH site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
OK Roberta, what are you waiting for? Have you contacted Shermer yet? (you can find his email address on the bottom of this page here - http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/3/tr11shermer.html )How about Archaeology magazine? I'm sure both will offer you considerable help. And just think if all you fags at holocaust controversies put your efforts into this. Do you think those freaks can drag themselves off each others backs long enough to actually do some honest research for once in their lives?

Bring it on bitch!
Boy, one can sense a lifetime of loser's frustration in Gerdes’ hateful gibberish. One of the reasons for this frustration may be that any of the contributors to HC has done more research in a year, and more honest research in a day, than Gerdes has done in his whole worthless life.

Just keep spitting your hatred, Mr. Gerdes. I’m putting together a collection of the most amusing showpieces of your rabid imbecility, and the above verbal manure has already earned an outstanding place in that collection. Let’s have more of that, asshole. Keep showing what a lowly piece of scum you are. MAKE MY DAY.

Ah, and how I go about collecting the evidence and who I contact for this purpose is my business alone, of course. You will hear from me again on this subject when I you find an issue of SKEPTIC or ARCHEOLOGY magazine with an article about my research findings in your mailbox.