Full Thread: Forgiveness
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Old March 5th, 2019 #4
Emily Henderson
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Default Anger and Forgiveness are Both Useful, Depends on Who, What, Why, Yada yada

Some things aren't forgivable, and the Christian definition is def dumpy chump fodder, but forgiveness is useful if applied a certain way in certain circumstances.

The Vedas had a lot of forgiveness related material, one requirement for forgiveness being the person who did wrong has to seek restoration for doing wrong first. You also let go of anger for your own sake, which doesn't mean you are inviting more harm it means you let go of dwelling on the harm to the self-destructive point.

'Unconditional love' is sick unless applied properly too---to me there is conditional unconditional love, lol. Meaning you might give someone a chance to rectify something that is pretty unforgiveable if they are sorry, because you love them and want them to know it so you give another chance. This is you letting them know that you have a deeper connection to them than to others, like a mother and child kind of love but what you should see with spouses or even friends if there is a reason to feel that way, if the person has worth and there is something there worth saving. 'Everybody else gave up on you, I didn't.' Then you see if there is a return on that kind of loyalty or not. You set a standard---and when they aren't meeting it you don't allow them to do harm. How many chances you give people is another thing--is the person making important changes, are they sincere? Is what you're trying to do for them making a difference or are they making your life intolerable? Weighing all that out is what makes someone decide what they can and can't tolerate.

A person doesn't have to forgive, or deal with/help people who cause them harm, but if they choose to, then they have to set a standard and stick with it.

When wild animals are a threat to each other, they on the spot fight it out and there is no lingering 'bitterness', just a fight that ends with one group living and one dying.

But in other circumstances as a hoomin animal, you have to figure out what to do with anger that's constructive. People wrongfully convicted for example are enraged daily, hourly--they have to do something with that rage or they'll make themselves sick, since they are physically unable to change their situation. They can't just get up and say, 'they lied and put me in here' and kill their oppressors. If they dwelled on the people that put them there they'd go crazy. That's the kind of situation the Vedas are talking about, where your anger only hurts you so you let go of it, mostly because you have to, it can't serve a purpose in those circumstances.

Forgiveness is not telling a rotten person that you love their rottenness and would like another slice of it, but coping with the fact that their behavior has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you. Letting go of being angry since it's like 'drinking poison hoping the other person dies'.

Some things are so harmful that vengeance isn't even possible too, so practicing letting go of anger can help in those situations.

But anything actively happening that a person can rectify by standing up for themselves they should, they'll only be angrier later that they didn't.

If a person chooses to be benevolent toward someone they care about who has been imperfect, but is trying to improve, that's okay as long as it has limits. And at some point if it's not okay and it's clear that it will bring too much harm to handle, they can stop being benevolent and say no more.

There's an appreciation people who went through hard times have for someone who forgave them, if they end up being worthy of it and doing well, and it feels good to have been strong enough to do it.

There's also a stupidity in forgiving just anything with no standard of behavior toward you attached to the forgiveness. That's the Xtian forgiveness.

This is all opinion and people can go full vengeance mode and maybe that'll serve them well, but I think there are times when that's as harmful as foofy full forgiveness mode. People have a right to protect themselves, but anger has to be channeled into something useful or it is self harming, that's why what's happening in the world and the way people feel about it is affecting their health. We weren't meant to be pushed to full anger mode all the time, or fear mode from threats to well being--they like to use both and then encourage people to deal with their anger or fear in stupid destructive ways rather than allowing people to, for example, pull out of the system, or say what they really think anywhere they happen to be, etc.
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