Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire
Sry Joey , didn't see your reply earlier . .
Hmmm . .
Concerning the history of rhythmic rhyming. .
According to lores it was already present in antiquity , among the old Norse people ( flyting ) . . It was in a way re-disovered in the old Square-Dancing of the American Old West and was re-taken-over by the 'Beatniks' of the 1960s . .
Nowhere in African history has something existed similar to rap . .
Many people use the excuse that supposedly the 'drums' in Hip Hop sound like African tribal ones but . . the 'beat' is much 'softer' ( a ) and ( b ) . . Aryan peoples have also used all kinds of percussions throughout history . .
Hip Hop is just that . . rhyming. . .
The fact that the groids fill it with images of "killin' honkey" , "robbin' banks" etc. ( that particular subgenre is called Gangsta Rap ) suits their character . .
The idea behind Hip Hop stems from us
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Again you fail to provide any example of something which could be said to be a progenitor of modern Rap.
Instead you begin with a different art form, Dance. Vaguely suggesting, based on nothing, a connection between Square Dancing and the Beatnik stereotype of the '60s. But then you stop there, decades before the emergence of Rap, so that I'm not sure if you even intended to suggest a connection between Rap and either Square Dancing or Beatniks. I couldn't discover what you use to connect even these latter two. This connection did seemed possible. I've only seen Square Dancing done to one kind of music but it can surely be done to other kinds as well.
After a tedious search I realised that I should have known there was nothing to find or you would have mentioned it.
One would think that if a group known to use the word 'Square' as derogatory slang, where seen Square Dancing it would have garnered much more attention than just yourself.
If by 'Square-Dancing' you're referring to the 19th century addition of Calling (also known as cueing or prompting), which made it possible to do the complicated dances without having to memorise the steps. This history is much shorter and well documented. I was surprised how many people actively practice and teach it right here in California. None advanced the idea that Calling gave birth to Rap. It has become an art form in itself but one that is inextricably linked to the dance. Both are reduced to nonsense if separated and attempted on their own.
Even if Square Dance Calling bore any resemblance to modern Rap (and it bears none in either sight or sound), rappers cannot have borrowed from an art form they had no experience of. I couldn't find a single rapper, early or current, that been to a Square Dance. Furthermore, neither Square Dance Callers, Square Dancers nor Rappers claim a connection. So why are you?
This suggestion, and indeed your entire thesis, relies on a common Causal Fallacy of Logic, i.e. the Post Hoc fallacy. (post hoc ergo propter hoc- 'after this, therefore because of this'). The mere existence of one thing prior to another does not imply descent there from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire
Nowhere in African history has something existed similar to rap . .
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This is not in dispute. If the evolution of rap could be traced back through Negroid history then my contention that it arose independently in modern times could not be correct.
And I'm quite confident now that it is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire
Many people use the excuse that supposedly the 'drums' in Hip Hop sound like African tribal ones but . . the 'beat' is much 'softer' ( a ) and ( b ) . . Aryan peoples have also used all kinds of percussions throughout history . .
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Wow. I suspected as I was ringing up Square Dance Callers that you are just suggesting random things that come into your head as you go along and have no concrete reason for believing Rap has an Aryan origin. This suggestion confirms it. Not only is it not a vocal art from, it demonstrates a lack of knowledge regarding both percussion instruments and musical notation.
Drums are a non-pitched percussion instrument and when written on a staff it is with the neutral clef rather than the more familiar bass or treble clef. The notes A and B refer to English pitch classes and don't apply to drums. And drums are not unique to Aryans.
At any rate, you don't know what anyone's drumming sounded like before the invention of modern recording equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire
Hip Hop is just that . . rhyming. . .
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This is demonstrably false. Rhyming, by definition, is just stringing together similar sounds. Combining rhyming with language makes Rap (or poetry) more than
just rhyming.
As I've already shown, rhythm and rhyming are not unique to any race or culture but are ubiquitous. As documented, the Negroes of New Guinea already practiced such songs and dancing at the time of first contact, when they believed they were the only people on earth.
Strikingly similar practices exist in many otherwise disparate peoples who have never encountered one another, the rhyming can be heard even without understanding the language, percussive music both with and without instruments is also used e.g. -
Pygmies of Central Africa -
Enawene Nawe of South America -
Either of these examples are at least as similar to rap as square dancing, if not more so. And many others can be found among the Maasai, Bororo, Wodaabe, Zulu, Fulani, Pedi, Basotho, Ndebele...etc., just as they can be found among the Caucasoid and Mongoloid races.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire
The idea behind Hip Hop stems from us
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Assuming by 'Hip Hop' you mean Rap ('Hip Hop' has an element of ambiguity that 'Rap' does not), I doubt you have a firm concept of whatever 'idea' you're imagining. The only ideas you have access to are your own, all others must be communicated in some more substantial way.