View Single Post
Old June 5th, 2008 #13
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Default

Quote:
>Before I go, let's do a simplified recap, something we can take to start over on >the new site >that Roberta can't censor:
I never censored anything, and Gerdes "recaps" on Topix have become an amusing pastime for me, as I count the lies (straw-man misrepresentations of his opponent’s arguments) that they contain. I’ve lost count of the total, but I once caught 11 lies in one "recap" alone.

Let’s see if Gerdes is better able to control his compulsion to lie on this forum.

Quote:
>Her arguments are based on Grossmans alleged investigation:

>http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4194&forum=2
Actually Grossman was only invoked as an eyewitness who saw crushed bones and teeth lying around on the Treblinka site after it had been overrun by the Soviets in 1944.

Quote:
>And the alleged Polish / jews investigation:

>http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html
The site investigation reports issued by Polish examining judge Lukaszkiewicz on 13.11.1945 and 29.12.1945, which are quoted in my article «Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure …» under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html after Mattogno & Graf’s book on Treblinka, are indeed the key documentation of physical evidence to the Treblinka killings that I have presented. The pertinent excerpts from both reports have been quoted in the Topix discussion several times:

From the report of 13.11.1945:

Quote:
«The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.»
From the report of 29.12.1945:

Quote:
«In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.»
Due to Gerdes incessant yelling for photographs – despite his never having been able to explain why these site investigation reports should not be seen as sufficient documentation, for the purposes of criminal justice an/or historiography, of the physical evidence to the Treblinka mass murder – I also provided photographs illustrating parts of what is described in the above-quoted reports. These photographs, or at least some of them, are mentioned in Gerdes’ "recap".

>This aerial photo of Treblinka:

>http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg

>(Remember her words:"I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were >used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett")

Showing of this commented photograph, as Gerdes fails to mention, was usually accompanied by my question what – if not mass graves in a section of the camp where eyewitnesses described mass graves – the ground-scarring shapes I pointed out could possibly have been. Gerdes was requested to provide a plausible alternative explanation, one that would be compatible with his "transit camp" theory. I’m still waiting for this explanation.

I’m also still waiting for Gerdes explanation what the excavators on the photos shown under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html are supposed to have been doing in a "transit camp".

These are just two of the questions that Gerdes was asked several times but never even tried to answer.

Quote:
>This article "proving" that there is "a huge concrete plate" that covers the entire "area of 20,000 >square meters." :

>http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/92506/t/Gold...

>(Remember her words: No, Gerdes, I cannot show you a photo of the concrete plate >underneath the memorial stones. I’ll try to find one (though the plate should be hard to see if >there’s grass or so above it)
My assumption that the 20,000 square meter area of the Treblinka "death camp" sector covered by human remains, according to examining judge Lukaszkiewicz’ report of 29.11.1945, is at present wholly or mostly covered by the memorial’s concrete foundation, is based on the following information in the Polish newspaper article available in English translation under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 :

Quote:
«The memorial itself, an obelisk eight meters high, stands on a huge concrete plate, and on the same there are hundreds of boulders with the names of the victims' places of origin: Sochaczew, Siedlce, Warsaw, Saloniki. According to Martina Rusiniak, the author of a work about Treblinka, the memorial was given this shape in order to avoid the digging-up of the area. For by the end of the 1940s something like a grave-robber mafia had already come into being here.»
It stands to reason that, if the memorial was shaped so as to avoid the digging-up of the area, it must have been made to cover the part of the area where most digging took place, i.e. the area of the former mass graves.

Confirming this assumption there is the following information from Scrapbookpages, available under http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland...eblinka05.html and quoted in my Topix post # 383 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p19#c383 :

Quote:
«According to a pamphlet which I purchased at the Visitor's Center, "The great monument in Treblinka is a homage of the Polish people to those ashes lie under the concrete plates of the symbolic cemetery. It is one of the most tragic monuments of martyrdom in Poland."

My tour guide informed me that the ashes of the 800,000 people who were murdered here were dumped in this area and are now hidden underneath the concrete of the symbolic cemetery and by the grass and tiny flowers which cover the area.»
Also confirming this assumption there are the photographs of the Treblinka memorial I showed in my post # 384 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p19#c384 .

Quote:
>And these photos:

>http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html

>http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html

>This drawing:

>http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...neGrinders.jpg

>And the following photos with captions:

>Jews loading bodies onto a wagon, apparently in the Treblinka camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg

>Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5807_1_web.jpg

>Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg

>Human skeletal remains in the Treblinka camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg

>Heaps of ashes on the grounds of the Treblinka camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg

>One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, >ashes) were thrown.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg

>A heap of ashes in the Treblinka camp.

>http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg

>There was much more to the "debate" than this of course.
Yeah, there was Gerdes’ spectacular blunder when he accused me of having lied about the GFH photos mentioned above being included in my RODOH thread "Mass Graves and Dead Bodies" under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/5963 . Care to tell your "White" buddies about how you were unable to use a search engine or scroll down beyond the first post on that thread, Mr. Gerdes?

More importantly, there was the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 , with links to the posts or articles where the respective documents or testimonies are quoted or referred to.

The documentary evidence Gerdes studiously avoided.

The eyewitness evidence he feebly tried to discredit, but when that failed he also ignored it and went back to his original tactic of yelling for physical evidence and physical evidence alone – and that although documentation of the physical evidence had been provided.

Quote:
>There are 10 pages of this lying wench's keyboard diarrhea that I had the displeasure of >having to sift through, but that is pretty much what she has presented as her "proof" to date.
Poor Gerdes, as I have pointed out more than once, seems to hope that people will mistake his hollow invective for an argument.

Quote:
>She has shown herself to be the utmost coward, so we shall see if she accepts the invitation to >debate this issue on a real uncensored forum.
Actually the only one who has shown himself an utmost coward is Gerdes, by running away from my arguments and questions and falsely accusing me of flagging his posts in order to justify his exit to the warm and cozy company of his "White" buddies. And whether VNN is the "uncensored forum" he claims it to be, even for "White" people, remains to be seen.