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Old June 18th, 2009 #1
Alex Linder
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Default Books are outdated

This thought occurred to me, but I don't mean what usually comes next - by tv and video.

I mean, I'm reading Burleigh, and - what's the point of writing an 800-page book covering a general topic? You just come on things page after page that you can find disputed in great and persuasive depth by others. Why do I care about Burleigh's opinion that Weimar was unjewed when I can easily rebut it from a dozen other sources?

Books are as outdated as large political entities, states.

Bursts and spurts are the right way to go. Anything more than a line needs justification. A book is a symptom of laziness and pride, in most instances.

Books are always spread too thin. I have yet to read a book that had more than a handful points. These points are not got to until the conclusions. Most book could be summed up in a handful of points, made lapidary through epigrammatic skill. Here's the nub of the problem: for every thousand Ph.D. candidates taught to footnote properly, zero are taught to sum stylishly.

What we need is a twitter/texting limiting. This won't force style, but will force skill. "The master shows himself by his limitations." There is no non-fiction book that cannot be summed up in a single sentence.
 
Old June 18th, 2009 #2
Anne
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I think people prefer to hold a book in their hands, put it down once in a while to reflect or contemplate. Computers are not conducive to stopping to meditate on something. Instead, with computers, everything works towards creating a fast pace, with constant information available with a click.

Computers are for information, books are for contemplation, IMO.
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Old June 18th, 2009 #3
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
I think people prefer to hold a book in their hands, put it down once in a while to reflect or contemplate. Computers are not conducive to stopping to meditate on something. Instead, with computers, everything works towards creating a fast pace, with constant information available with a click.

Computers are for information, books are for contemplation, IMO.
Off point. Just as valid for any printed material. Of course it's more pleasurable to hold a book, and hover over it, rather than have it face you like an equal.

Standard book length should be 100 pages. There should be far more of these and far fewer 400-page books. The only excuse a book has for being extremely long is if it's a compendium, a collection, or a textbook.
 
Old June 19th, 2009 #4
Steve Lillywhite
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Books are outdated, but aphorisms are forever:
The aphorism, the apophthegm, in which I am the first master among Germans,
are the forms of "eternity"; my ambition is to say in ten sentences what
everyone else says in a book -- what everyone else does not say in a book.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols


_
 
Old June 19th, 2009 #5
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Steve Lillywhite View Post
Books are outdated, but aphorisms are forever:
The aphorism, the apophthegm, in which I am the first master among Germans,
are the forms of "eternity"; my ambition is to say in ten sentences what
everyone else says in a book -- what everyone else does not say in a book.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols


_
Well done. I have never seen that quotation from Nietzsche but it is right on the money.

BTW, Nietzsche was second to Schopenhauer.

Also, this is a meaning of "there is always room at the top."

No one even TRIES to coin words, come up with apothegms, epigrams and adages - they don't try because these involvement movement and brilliance and daring, all the things our 'school' system wars against. The farther one goes in formal intellection, the deader his brain. He has any brilliance beat out of him by stodgy fearfuls called professors.

Mencken was tops in English, and he never went to college at all.

Point is, there is more latent talent in aphorizing than any other aspect of letters, and that is direct result of the triumph of PC and its institutionalization through so-called public schools.
 
Old March 13th, 2010 #6
Igor Alexander
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I wouldn't call it complete, but there's close to an entire world-view expressed in the quotations page on my blog:
http://igoralexander.wordpress.com/quotes/

If someone had given me a printout of that page when I was 20, I would've learned more in the 30 minutes it took to read it than I did in 4 years of university.

The thing that sucks about the net, though, is that there's way too much to read. It's information overload, and the good material gets drowned out by the worthless. I'd rather read one good, meaningful paragraph over and over than sift through 10,000 pages of crap.

The democratization of information has its up and downsides.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; March 13th, 2010 at 07:06 AM.
 
Old March 13th, 2010 #7
andy
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I prefer old books because of the style.In the days before copyright policing and citation and apendices.The author will have done all the research evaluated it and yes bought his own opinion into it.Rightly or wrongly I prefer where the author brings his opinion to the issue.Most books nowadays could be improved by straight cut and paste from the internet.
While I don't want to be given unverifiable false information I think most educated people can draw their own conclusions and formulate their own opinions from personalised authorship.I too am reading Burleigh (The third Reich a new history) and yes I can see the court historian.But he has a modern style,his comparison with modern political activity is attractive .This of course is a personal opinion and I think the trouble with books is there is not enough of the author in the manuscript.Proto nazi Thomas Carlyle managed to write books without recourse to page notes and appendices in his originals and his books are so much better for it.
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Old August 29th, 2010 #8
P.E.
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Amazon Reviews: The reason you don't need to buy the book.



I gave up book reading recently. The time investment is too heavy. You can take any book title, stick it in google, set it to discussions, and find a billion people who already read it clobbering over the strongest sticking points and quotes of the book.

There are time investments in growth that have tangible results. Going to the gym. Learning to cook something. Learning to play an instrument. Learning something in science.

But most books that will fall under the history or philosophy or literary works, you are left with nothing when you are done except the phrase "I read that book". Yeah, sure, some say "you grow your perspective". I don't see it in most of these books. Most of these books, I read them, then I kinda feel like I just read what I already knew in different words from someone else.

Kinda like all philosophy books. You get to the end of it, and you're supposed to have what? More willpower? I've read a damn lot of philosophy, and part of me regrets that time I spent. Nothing is etched in the brain without an experience where it is used.

The only tangible benefit is vocabulary growth (kinda pointless because if you go talking like some master of vocabulary, you come off douchey), and maybe writing style / wit.

It's pretty damn tough to find books that will tangibly increase cunning and wit though, and add to a persons charisma in their speaking and writing. Most books are written like the typewriter wrote them.
 
Old August 30th, 2010 #9
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.E. View Post
Amazon Reviews: The reason you don't need to buy the book.



I gave up book reading recently. The time investment is too heavy. You can take any book title, stick it in google, set it to discussions, and find a billion people who already read it clobbering over the strongest sticking points and quotes of the book.
I feel that way more about movies. I enjoy reading book reviews, but i would rather read movie reviews than watch the movie. The reviews are usually better. Not quite there with books, but reviews in general are fun and helpful. I like seeing 50 people approach something from whatever wacky POV strikes them as natural.

Quote:
But most books that will fall under the history or philosophy or literary works, you are left with nothing when you are done except the phrase "I read that book". Yeah, sure, some say "you grow your perspective". I don't see it in most of these books. Most of these books, I read them, then I kinda feel like I just read what I already knew in different words from someone else.
That's probably true if you're not a writer. For me, I have a very good memory for a brilliant line, and that's what interested me about writing in the first place.

Quote:
Kinda like all philosophy books. You get to the end of it, and you're supposed to have what? More willpower? I've read a damn lot of philosophy, and part of me regrets that time I spent. Nothing is etched in the brain without an experience where it is used.
Don't agree. Philosophy is not one uniform thing. If you read Nietzsche or Schopenhauer, they are entirely different from, say, John Rawls. Rawls is wrong and boring. After about three or four words you realize Rawls is pushing some stupid position that you either agree with or don't, and if you're not basically a communist like he and his admirers, the thing is utterly useless to you because has no charms of style. Whereas N and S have not only sound or at least provocative unsound ideas, they have style to the max. Their stuff sticks with you, whereas nobody can remember anything about Rawls other than original position, and what an utterly asinine POV he has. And then you see the kind of profs pushing it like it's sense. The thing to me that is similar to what you're saying is I read shitloads of assigned material in college and all I remember is the intellectual equivalent of sniffing sour milk. Everything I know and use in daily work comes from reading I did privately. Why is the good stuff NEVER ASSIGNED, NEVER TALKED ABOUT in american 'liberal arts' education. It truly isn't. And in the rare case it is, it is deballed and made to ox-slave under some intellectual peasant's neo-cambodian yoke.

Quote:
The only tangible benefit is vocabulary growth (kinda pointless because if you go talking like some master of vocabulary, you come off douchey), and maybe writing style / wit.
Yeah, you definitely don't want to sound intelligent in front of most Americans or you'll enter an unpopular category in their mind. Hell, I've known professional JOURNALISTS who i only belatedly realized i was being judged by as pretentious because i like to bring up quotations. JOURNALISTS don't even respect/understand the love of language. It's just a cool job involving phone and yapping, and has some cool perks.

Quote:
It's pretty damn tough to find books that will tangibly increase cunning and wit though, and add to a persons charisma in their speaking and writing. Most books are written like the typewriter wrote them.
You have to have it in you to start with. If you have at least a streak, a feel for the delightful interplay of sound and meaning, you study the people in your line, to improve your ability to produce the effects they do. But that's not really of any use to anyone who isn't writing for money or to attract an audience. For everyman's writing all that's needed is basic grammar and spelling; those alone will set him apart these days.
 
Old August 31st, 2010 #10
Call Of The Blood
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With the current generation of "e-ink" readers you don't need physical books as the screen looks the same as printed paper. They don't do color yet but that's in the works. Most can read PDFs, DOCs and TXTs so there is no end in the amount of books you can read on them. Steer clear of the models which only allow kike digital "rights" protected books to be read, I think that applies to the one by Amazon.

Still having a book shelf full of great white literature classics is appealing, but most books you read you don't need to keep in physical form (eg cheap thrillers, manuals, academic text books etc.)
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Old September 8th, 2010 #11
Eric Wright
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Quote:
I mean, I'm reading Burleigh, and - what's the point of writing an 800-page book covering a general topic? You just come on things page after page that you can find disputed in great and persuasive depth by others. Why do I care about Burleigh's opinion that Weimar was unjewed when I can easily rebut it from a dozen other sources?
Thats why they made abridged versions. Just because a book is long, boring and maybe even inaccurate doesn't mean books are "out-dated". At least i dont see the connection.

Quote:
Books are as outdated as large political entities, states.
Pfffftt...Here we go again... Human population, yes even whites, have only grown in number; if anything, large political entities are very much needed.


Quote:
What we need is a twitter/texting limiting. This won't force style, but will force skill. "The master shows himself by his limitations." There is no non-fiction book that cannot be summed up in a single sentence.
That is so absurd. That is actually the modern problem of youth; they think everything can be summed up in a sentence or a google search. When in reality its quite opposite. Kinda like the tupperware labeling method of modern "debates".
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Old September 8th, 2010 #12
Eric Wright
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.E. View Post
Amazon Reviews: The reason you don't need to buy the book.



I gave up book reading recently. The time investment is too heavy. You can take any book title, stick it in google, set it to discussions, and find a billion people who already read it clobbering over the strongest sticking points and quotes of the book.

There are time investments in growth that have tangible results. Going to the gym. Learning to cook something. Learning to play an instrument. Learning something in science.

But most books that will fall under the history or philosophy or literary works, you are left with nothing when you are done except the phrase "I read that book". Yeah, sure, some say "you grow your perspective". I don't see it in most of these books. Most of these books, I read them, then I kinda feel like I just read what I already knew in different words from someone else.

Kinda like all philosophy books. You get to the end of it, and you're supposed to have what? More willpower? I've read a damn lot of philosophy, and part of me regrets that time I spent. Nothing is etched in the brain without an experience where it is used.

The only tangible benefit is vocabulary growth (kinda pointless because if you go talking like some master of vocabulary, you come off douchey), and maybe writing style / wit.

It's pretty damn tough to find books that will tangibly increase cunning and wit though, and add to a persons charisma in their speaking and writing. Most books are written like the typewriter wrote them.
Thats just you. Some of us have changed our whole view of the world because of a book.
Philosophy is not for everyone, that could of been your problem.
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Old September 8th, 2010 #13
grail
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@ OP..Ever heard of a book called Lord of the Rings,,,,,by JRR Tolkien ?
It is what is called "fiction"...Most popular book of the 21st century...
It is about white people fighting evil...
How long do you think the internet is going to be around after WW3,solar storms,and fill in the blank..?.
I could go on for a lot longer but if this post is too long lots of people will not read it,,,it would take up too much of their time...
 
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