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Old October 18th, 2012 #181
Steven L. Akins
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Originally Posted by Matthaus Hetzenauer View Post
Now who the hell said anything about eliminating any of the above? I'm saying that belief in, adherence to, antiquated religious practices we now know to be totally irrational should be avoided at all costs; we should deal with reality only. You want ceremony, rituals, rites, etc? There's plenty enough of that to go around in White history without resorting to religion.
Whites have our own religions, like Druidism and Asatru, which are a part of our ancestral culture and heritage. I would much rather sacrifice white trash such as yourself to our ancestors' gods than to sacrifice their religion to please the likes of white trash such as you.
 
Old October 18th, 2012 #182
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You don't give our ancient White ancestors much credit, do you?

As primative and as ignorant as you try to make them sound; I have more respect for them than I do for you.

Like I said, if you try to eliminate symbolism, ritual, rites, ceremonies, observances and honoring aspects of nature with customs and traditions that are part of our ethnic culture and heritage you are left with a culture that is largely blank and devoid of anything that is beautiful, pleasing and enjoyable. You are left with nothing, you become nothing.

That is how you come across to me - as nothing.
Au contraire -- I give my White ancestors more credit than you could possibly ever. I've read the Homeric and Virgilian epics; I've read Dante and Boccaccio; I've read More and Erasmus -- and their works were/are absolutely brilliant. That doesn't mean, however, that I subscribe to their antiquated beliefs. And I daresay, dipshit, that if any of these men were resurrected today, they'd disavow their own writings and opt for the scientific, rationalist viewpoint in a heartbeat.

Now how do you come across to me, Akins? Like a motormouthed know-it-all who thinks he's impressing people here with his overly-verbose garbage posts. You're fooling no one, Sport -- least of all me.



p.s. Gotta split for now; but rest assured I'll come a-gunnin' for ya in a day or two.
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Old October 18th, 2012 #183
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Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins View Post
You don't give our ancient White ancestors much credit, do you?

As primative and as ignorant as you try to make them sound; I have more respect for them than I do for you.

Like I said, if you try to eliminate symbolism, ritual, rites, ceremonies, observances and honoring aspects of nature with customs and traditions that are part of our ethnic culture and heritage you are left with a culture that is largely blank and devoid of anything that is beautiful, pleasing and enjoyable. You are left with nothing, you become nothing.

That is how you come across to me - as nothing.
Do you do something for Samhain (sp?)?

I see this paradox and I embrace it like a well shaped woman: our race's proudest tradition is questing - which is in some ways a rejection of tradition. That's the part of our race I admire.

The fact that people genetically related to me did something does mean something, but it doesn't mean everything. That would be like these idiots who say "I have no regrets." Everyone has regrets. I can acknowledge everything I've done, but still wince at the bad decisions and horrible mistakes I made, and certainly not say they're good because I did them. They were fuckups. I wish I hadn't done them. It's the same for our race. Christ-insanity is part of our heritage. What a horrible part! The very worst part. We are supposed to embrace this and celebrate it and say it's a good thing going forward? Heck, no. We should acknowledge it - by saying it was a mistake, a horrible mistake. A mistake we will never make again, once we re-earn our sovereignty.

Just because our race evolves some tradition doesn't mean it's a good thing worth carrying on. I have no problem with personifying gods out elemental forces, but when we pretend these gods are real - that's where the trouble begin. That I will fight to the death over.

Reality exists, and religion exists to serve the lie that it doesn't. Religion is the sworn enemy of all progress and civilization.

In fact, it is time I invented a word for religion's real motive, which is to take the man by the hand, turn him around, and lead him back into the warm, bubbly, safe swamp, where he can return to his proud amoebic traditions.
 
Old October 18th, 2012 #184
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Religion correctly fears that human evolution moves in a direction such that there will inevitably arrive a day when the average man does not require religion - and it is the coming of that day that religion is primarily focused on preventing.

This is why the catholic church opposes communism but hates because fears the racialism in national socialism. The racial doctrines of national socialism mean death for the christian church, or supersession, as we might put it, and the more intelligent in the church recognize this. And this is why the churchies are willing to stain their immortal soul with vicious lies about 'Nazis' taken bodily from the very jewish communists the church supposedly opposes. We saw this literally yesterday (I saw this mentioned on a news feed). There was some christ cultist on (I think) CNN who was trying to claim that NS was nothing but a bunch of homosexual gangsters. This is not true. It is a lie. The christ cultist knows it is a lie. The christ cultist repeats the lie because he does not believe anyone will call him to task for it. Repeating the lie is safe. Being a typical christian, he shamlessly smears the charcter of those who cannot fight back. If the nazis were still alive and had any actual power, we know from all recorded experience the christian would grovel before them, or hold his tongue. Christ cultists are liars and cowards. Not all of them. But most of them. And nearly all their leaders, such as the fellow I mention. This is why their cult can't protect itself or its culture, but always yields to a 1% (queers) or 2% (jews) minority.

The christian has a great stake in defaming men who might lead his customers of our race to a place where they don't need the pathetic lies of the jebus cult. The jebus cultist, in light of this vital (life and death) interest, is more than willing to break his own commandment against lying in order to defame the characters of his betters. That's how much the E. Michael Joneses fear white racialism.

Last edited by Alex Linder; October 18th, 2012 at 03:13 PM.
 
Old October 18th, 2012 #185
Steven L. Akins
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Do you do something for Samhain (sp?)?

I see this paradox and I embrace it like a well shaped woman: our race's proudest tradition is questing - which is in some ways a rejection of tradition. That's the part of our race I admire.

The fact that people genetically related to me did something does mean something, but it doesn't mean everything. That would be like these idiots who say "I have no regrets." Everyone has regrets. I can acknowledge everything I've done, but still wince at the bad decisions and horrible mistakes I made, and certainly not say they're good because I did them. They were fuckups. I wish I hadn't done them. It's the same for our race. Christ-insanity is part of our heritage. What a horrible part! The very worst part. We are supposed to embrace this and celebrate it and say it's a good thing going forward? Heck, no. We should acknowledge it - by saying it was a mistake, a horrible mistake. A mistake we will never make again, once we re-earn our sovereignty.

Just because our race evolves some tradition doesn't mean it's a good thing worth carrying on. I have no problem with personifying gods out elemental forces, but when we pretend these gods are real - that's where the trouble begin. That I will fight to the death over.

Reality exists, and religion exists to serve the lie that it doesn't. Religion is the sworn enemy of all progress and civilization.

In fact, it is time I invented a word for religion's real motive, which is to take the man by the hand, turn him around, and lead him back into the warm, bubbly, safe swamp, where he can return to his proud amoebic traditions.
You are looking at all religion as though it was just like Christianity. It's not.

Christians, Muslims, and other Yahweh worshipers are very different from Pagans. Polytheists don't confuse the symbol for what the symbol stands for; we know it's a symbol and it's purpose is to represent something other than what it is; just as printed words represent ideas that we are trying get across. That is basically what the gods and goddesses of polytheistic religions are - representative images. We can either picture them in our heads, or we can sculpt them into three dimensional works of art (idols), or we can depict them using words and write down stories in books about them (scriptures).

The rites and rituals that revolve around them are not really all that important as ceremonies to appease those gods; they are important because those customs and traditions bring the tribe together. That is basically what a tribe is - a group of clans that are bound together by cultural traditions; like worshiping the same gods. It's one way we get a sense of who we are and who isn't a part of our tribe. It sets boundaries and says "you belong here, they belong over there."

There is no point in holding rites and ceremonies to a god or a goddess by yourself alone, because they are supposed to be a community effort, something to bring the tribe together; that's the way Stonehenge was built, using the community effort of the tribe to accomplish something that still remains to be seen thousands of years later as a monument to the efforts of its builders who were our ancestors.

I'll leave you with a brief story about what happened a long time ago when one tribe tried to use religion to coerce the members of another tribe into submission. It explains the dangers of outsiders and yeilding to their advice and ways, which usually aren't in your best interest:

Quote:
In the generations that followed Tigernmas son of Fallach, son of Ethriel, of the line on Eremon, took the kingship of Ireland after defeating Conmael at the battle of Oenach Macha. A great warrior was he, and in the first year of his reign, he was champion of seven and twenty battles against the progeny of Eber Finn, so that the line of Eber Finn was all but vanquished from the land of Ireland. Seven lakes and three rivers burst forth from the ground in Ireland while he was king.

It was in the reign of Tigernmas that gold was first smelted in Ireland by Luchadan the wright, from which drinking horns were fashioned and given by the king to his followers; and for the first time was clothing dyed in colors of purple, blue and green, and worn with ornaments in the form of brooches and fringes. And so that each class might be distinguished from the others Tigernmas decreed that the number of colors worn by his subjects in their garments should vary according to their rank and position; wherefore servants were entitled to but one color, while peasants wore two. Warriors were allowed three colors and the owners of land were permitted to wear four. Chieftains might wear five colors, while ollamain and royalty held the right to wear six.

And during the reign of Tigernmas, there came to Ireland a ship bearing a message from the king of the Fomoraig asking that the land of Ireland might be searched for precious stones, and copper, and tin, and other metals of value, and that a quarter of their worth should be paid to those chieftains of Ireland from whose lands they were taken, and that all the storehouses, and provisions and tools used for this purpose should be bought from the men of Ireland.

Then did Tigernmas summon the Gaedil to assemble before him in council to consider the offer of the Fomoraig; but lo, the chieftains of the Gaedil held the Fomoraig in great distrust, and they gave their answer saying that they should search their land themselves for these treasures.

Now at that time Ishbaal, the daughter of the king of the Fomoraig, was married to Aodab, king of Ceisrael; and under her there served a group of priests who brought with them to Ireland an idol wrought of gold and silver, which was their chief god, Crom Cruach, and with it twelve lesser idols made of stone overlaid with burnished bronze. The priests of Crom Cruach bid Tigernmas to cause a rath to be built on Mag Senaig, that it should serve as a temple for the idols; to this Tigernmas agreed, and so it was done.

The golden idol of Crom Cruach was placed therefore upon Mag Senaig with the twelve lesser idols facing round about it. And when this was accomplished, the priests of Crom Cruach bade Tigernmas to call forth all the Gaedil to assemble upon the plain where the idols had been placed, that they might bow down before their god to hear the oracle of his judgments on their petitions by way of the priests who served him.

Tigernmas took heed of their advice and on the eve of Samhain, he caused all the Gaedil to gather before the idols that stood on Mag Senaig; and the priests of Crom Cruach implored them to obey the commands of their god, that he should bestow his blessings upon Ireland.

But when the people had assembled, they were loathe to prostrate themselves before the idols, saying that they would not bow down except that Crom Cruach should appear before them himself. Then did the priests say unto Tigernmas that lest his people bow down before the idols, a terrible curse would be visited upon Ireland so that all their corn should be blighted and their cows would give no milk. Thereupon Tigernmas commanded the Gaedil to do as the priests bid, so that they might be spared of this curse.

And when the people prostrated themselves before the idols, the priests revealed the judgment of Crom Cruach which was that they should offer unto him all their firstborn children in sacrifice, that the bounty of their land might be preserved. Then was heard a great outcry upon Mag Senaig, and the people beat their palms and bruised their bodies and wailed over this judgement; sheding showers of tears as they bowed down before the idol. With deep lamenting and bitterness they slew one third of their offspring, pouring their blood around the idol in horror of Crom Cruach, so that Mag Senaig was thereafter known as Mag Slecht, the Plain of Adoration.

But lo, the people of Ireland prostrated themselves in such grief before Crom Cruach, so that their foreheads and their noses, and the joints of their knees and elbows were broken by their bowings, thus did three fourths of their number perish, and Tigernmas with them. Thereafter those who were left among them rose up against the priests and slew the chief one among them, and as many of the others as they could overtake; so that the rest fled in fear for their lives, departing in haste from the shores of Ireland and returning from whence they came.

Then did the bards chant their dirge over the body of Tigernmas who fell together with ten hundred and three thousand of his people in the fiftieth year of his reign and the seventy-seventh year of his age. Thereafter Ireland was without a High King for seven years, until Eochaid Etgudach took the kingship.

- from The Lebor Feasa Runda, Chapter Twelve: The Conquest of the Gaedil
http://leborfeasarunda.weebly.com/chapter-xii.html
 
Old October 20th, 2012 #186
Matthaus Hetzenauer
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Do you do something for Samhain (sp?)?

I see this paradox and I embrace it like a well shaped woman: our race's proudest tradition is questing - which is in some ways a rejection of tradition. That's the part of our race I admire.

The fact that people genetically related to me did something does mean something, but it doesn't mean everything. That would be like these idiots who say "I have no regrets." Everyone has regrets. I can acknowledge everything I've done, but still wince at the bad decisions and horrible mistakes I made, and certainly not say they're good because I did them. They were fuckups. I wish I hadn't done them. It's the same for our race. Christ-insanity is part of our heritage. What a horrible part! The very worst part. We are supposed to embrace this and celebrate it and say it's a good thing going forward? Heck, no. We should acknowledge it - by saying it was a mistake, a horrible mistake. A mistake we will never make again, once we re-earn our sovereignty.

Just because our race evolves some tradition doesn't mean it's a good thing worth carrying on. I have no problem with personifying gods out elemental forces, but when we pretend these gods are real - that's where the trouble begin. That I will fight to the death over.

Reality exists, and religion exists to serve the lie that it doesn't. Religion is the sworn enemy of all progress and civilization.

In fact, it is time I invented a word for religion's real motive, which is to take the man by the hand, turn him around, and lead him back into the warm, bubbly, safe swamp, where he can return to his proud amoebic traditions.
Now why couldn't I have stated my position so eloquently? Fuck! Second paragraph, great analogy, Alex.

p.s. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm planting a vapor-lock on the boss's asshole. I'm not; no, really!
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Last edited by Matthaus Hetzenauer; October 20th, 2012 at 12:14 PM.
 
Old November 15th, 2012 #187
Hans Norling
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Time exists only as a human concept the same way that speed exists as a concept.
We conceptualize terms in order to describe the things and phenomenas we decidedly observe about the laws of nature/universe work. I do not understand how this is an argument against anything. Do you mean to say that you do not believe in the curvature of space? Or... do you mean to say that you believe in absolute time or no time at all?
 
Old November 15th, 2012 #188
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Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins View Post
The New Testament really isn't the main story of the Bible; it's an addendum.
Kinesiologist David Hawkins directly queries the TAO via muscle testing:

King James bible calibrates at <200 on a scale of 1000 (weak, untruthful)

KJb without old testament and Revelations (of Astral origin)

980 or Ultimate Truth!
 
Old November 15th, 2012 #189
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About 20 years or so ago, a "Jesus Commission" of sorts (consisting of world-renowned Christian, kike, and other "Bible experts" ) was put together to study the historical accuracy of the NT. And guess what? After two full years of going over that crapola, they determined that Doofus only spoke 18% of what he's purported to have said in that Holy Babble...
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Old November 15th, 2012 #190
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We conceptualize terms in order to describe the things and phenomenas we decidedly observe about the laws of nature/universe work. I do not understand how this is an argument against anything. Do you mean to say that you do not believe in the curvature of space? Or... do you mean to say that you believe in absolute time or no time at all?
I believe space is emptiness, it's the void that exists between objects like planets, stars, asteroids, etc. It probably is limitless and therefore has no shape.

Time simply doesn't exist. It is nothing more than a human concept - a means of measuring progress/motion - the earth turns, one full rotation is measured as a day; one full revolution around the sun is measured as a year; but the only thing that is happening is that the earth is moving, so time is nothing more than a way of measuring progress. A day or a year don't exist outside of human imagination, all that exists are moving objects in space; it's only us who counts their movements.
 
Old November 15th, 2012 #191
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I would not overrate this writing
Martin Luther was not anti-jewish in any racial sense. If all jews would had been converted to Christianity, he would have had no problem with them.
 
Old November 16th, 2012 #192
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I would not overrate this writing
Martin Luther was not anti-jewish in any racial sense. If all jews would had been converted to Christianity, he would have had no problem with them.
True, but ML was one stupid/superstitious motherfucker; dumb as a box of rocks...

Ever read the story about his being awakened in the middle of the night by "Satan" throwing walnut shells in his dorm?...or why he dedicated his life to Jeebus during a thunderstorm?
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Old November 16th, 2012 #193
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I believe space is emptiness, it's the void that exists between objects like planets, stars, asteroids, etc. It probably is limitless and therefore has no shape.
You're missing specific context and domain of application. Running with colloqial, unspecified, philosophical musings while waving your poetic license is all well and good, however... it will not translate to what is discussed in a specified setting/context.

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It is nothing more than a human concept - a means of measuring progress/motion
Every term, word and thought are more or less part of human conceptualizing which we use to express our impressions or describe what we observe. Very often, the meaning of any given term or word changes depending on the context. If you refuse to accept this yet still try to understand what is ment, what is being referred to, in the given context then you will not understand.

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A day or a year don't exist outside of human imagination, all that exists are moving objects in space; it's only us who counts their movements.
The events we refer to as "day" or "year" exist outside of our own perceptions. It's just that the universe itself doesn't bother calling anything by any given words. It just is. Again, regarding space-time/relativity/quantum/electromagnetic references, we simply use words and harness them through the process of specification in order to translate our observations of 'what is' into a scientific language based on consensus. Willful ignorance of this crucial yet basic distinction is simply irrational. You can't set it aside and just say "Space? It's just empty void. Time? It's just a human concept" and expect to come across as learned or reasonable.
 
Old November 17th, 2012 #194
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True, but ML was one stupid/superstitious motherfucker;
Superstitious yes, but then if you don't understand the concept of evolution, atoms, viral infections, bacteria, non-Galenic/Hippocratic medicine, race war, class war, meteorology, mental illness and so on. You are going to interpret the world through the prism of an established ideological system that offers explanations of the symptoms and what they mean: people throughout history have done exactly the same thing (notably the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and so on).

People are still superstitious: superstition is merely inherited customs and fears some of which would have been rational at the time they were developed and other times not.

Quote:
dumb as a box of rocks...
Got to disagree there: he was extremely bright. He and Calvin were very similar in that they were both highly intellectual men and both rejected the liberalising trends in Christianity evident in the world of men like Erasmus and the humanists. They instead sought to take Christianity back to the source and purify it from its; by then, utterly secular reality.

I can understand and sympathize with what they were trying to do at that time precisely because I've often felt that if I had been born at the time then I would have sided with the Reformers and their theology.

Quote:
Ever read the story about his being awakened in the middle of the night by "Satan" throwing walnut shells in his dorm?
I don't recall that specific instance, but it has been persuasively argued that the root of Luther's theology was his fear of death and what happens next. For Luther the devil was an active agent in the world precisely because Christianity told him God was omnipresent, omnipotent and yet he loved humans enough to send his only begotten son to them. So there had to be an equal and opposite of that in order for evil to be in the world (i.e. the devil) which he worked out through his own combination of Aristotle (who Luther despised but took a lot from) and neo-Platonic thought.

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...or why he dedicated his life to Jeebus during a thunderstorm?
Well he felt his life was threatened and he wanted to live so he did the most rational thing he felt he could do at that moment: call on God (via Saint Anne) and then offer to dedicate his life to god (via monasticism) if he would but let him live.

As to Luther and the jews: he didn't view jews racially to be sure. However where the whole 'Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor' argument comes from is the fact that in his Commentaries on the Psalms, his 'Jesus Christ was born a Jew' and his famous 'On the Jews and their Lies' Luther developed a view that jews were somehow inherently unable to recognise; in his view, the truth of the Christian revelation as a group and that accordingly they were the specific agents of the devil.

Luther did indeed leave the door open for genuine converts to Christianity, but he also states quite openly that he didn't believe jews would ever convert in significant numbers. He's as close to anti-Semitism as you can get from a Christian anti-Judaic perspective there without crossing that border: that's the origin of the claim about Luther being 'Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor'.

Luther's condemnation of the jews was very real and based on his experience with them which you can see very quickly by comparing it to his comments on the subject of witches and witchcraft, which he believed in but did not have any first hand experience of and accordingly only went with received opinion.
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Old November 17th, 2012 #195
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You're missing specific context and domain of application. Running with colloqial, unspecified, philosophical musings while waving your poetic license is all well and good, however... it will not translate to what is discussed in a specified setting/context.



Every term, word and thought are more or less part of human conceptualizing which we use to express our impressions or describe what we observe. Very often, the meaning of any given term or word changes depending on the context. If you refuse to accept this yet still try to understand what is ment, what is being referred to, in the given context then you will not understand.



The events we refer to as "day" or "year" exist outside of our own perceptions. It's just that the universe itself doesn't bother calling anything by any given words. It just is. Again, regarding space-time/relativity/quantum/electromagnetic references, we simply use words and harness them through the process of specification in order to translate our observations of 'what is' into a scientific language based on consensus. Willful ignorance of this crucial yet basic distinction is simply irrational. You can't set it aside and just say "Space? It's just empty void. Time? It's just a human concept" and expect to come across as learned or reasonable.
Is "yesterday" a place that you can visit? Or is it simply the point of the earth's previous rotation relative to its position to the sun? What about tomorrow? Is it a seperate plane of existence to the here and now? Is it not true that these divisions of light, shadow and movement are merely all part of a continuous, uninterrupted progress measured by counting like the beating of our own hearts? There is no separate place where the past or the future reside, it is all here now right where we are, and our lives progress along with the constant spinning of the earth and its uninterrupted orbit around the sun. The divisions that we measure by are simply our observation of our surroundings as we progress through space by means of motion. 24 hour days and 365 day years don't occur anywhere other than right here on our own planet, and no one counts them thus but ourselves.
 
Old November 17th, 2012 #196
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Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins View Post
Is "yesterday" a place that you can visit? Or is it simply the point of the earth's previous rotation relative to its position to the sun? What about tomorrow? Is it a seperate plane of existence to the here and now? Is it not true that these divisions of light, shadow and movement are merely all part of a continuous, uninterrupted progress measured by counting like the beating of our own hearts? There is no separate place where the past or the future reside, it is all here now right where we are, and our lives progress along with the constant spinning of the earth and its uninterrupted orbit around the sun. The divisions that we measure by are simply our observation of our surroundings as we progress through space by means of motion. 24 hour days and 365 day years don't occur anywhere other than right here on our own planet, and no one counts them thus but ourselves.
You're confusing rotation and revolution again, Maharaji McNewton.
 
Old November 17th, 2012 #197
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Originally Posted by Karl Radl View Post
Superstitious yes, but then if you don't understand the concept of evolution, atoms, viral infections, bacteria, non-Galenic/Hippocratic medicine, race war, class war, meteorology, mental illness and so on. You are going to interpret the world through the prism of an established ideological system that offers explanations of the symptoms and what they mean: people throughout history have done exactly the same thing (notably the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and so on).

People are still superstitious: superstition is merely inherited customs and fears some of which would have been rational at the time they were developed and other times not.



Got to disagree there: he was extremely bright. He and Calvin were very similar in that they were both highly intellectual men and both rejected the liberalising trends in Christianity evident in the world of men like Erasmus and the humanists. They instead sought to take Christianity back to the source and purify it from its; by then, utterly secular reality.

I can understand and sympathize with what they were trying to do at that time precisely because I've often felt that if I had been born at the time then I would have sided with the Reformers and their theology.



I don't recall that specific instance, but it has been persuasively argued that the root of Luther's theology was his fear of death and what happens next. For Luther the devil was an active agent in the world precisely because Christianity told him God was omnipresent, omnipotent and yet he loved humans enough to send his only begotten son to them. So there had to be an equal and opposite of that in order for evil to be in the world (i.e. the devil) which he worked out through his own combination of Aristotle (who Luther despised but took a lot from) and neo-Platonic thought.



Well he felt his life was threatened and he wanted to live so he did the most rational thing he felt he could do at that moment: call on God (via Saint Anne) and then offer to dedicate his life to god (via monasticism) if he would but let him live.

As to Luther and the jews: he didn't view jews racially to be sure. However where the whole 'Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor' argument comes from is the fact that in his Commentaries on the Psalms, his 'Jesus Christ was born a Jew' and his famous 'On the Jews and their Lies' Luther developed a view that jews were somehow inherently unable to recognise; in his view, the truth of the Christian revelation as a group and that accordingly they were the specific agents of the devil.

Luther did indeed leave the door open for genuine converts to Christianity, but he also states quite openly that he didn't believe jews would ever convert in significant numbers. He's as close to anti-Semitism as you can get from a Christian anti-Judaic perspective there without crossing that border: that's the origin of the claim about Luther being 'Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor'.

Luther's condemnation of the jews was very real and based on his experience with them which you can see very quickly by comparing it to his comments on the subject of witches and witchcraft, which he believed in but did not have any first hand experience of and accordingly only went with received opinion.
ML was noted for being extremely superstitious in an age of superstition. That aside, the Greeks were much more open to other possibilities/philosophies rather than the established/defined religion...need I quote a doubter or two for you? The period after Rome's fall ("The Dark Ages") is rightly defined. We were fucked for the better part of a millenia...
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Old November 17th, 2012 #198
Karl Radl
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Originally Posted by Matthaus Hetzenauer View Post
ML was noted for being extremely superstitious in an age of superstition.
According to who? I've read an awful lot on and by Luther and he never came across as anything other than a true believer in an age when such beliefs were normal.

Quote:
That aside, the Greeks were much more open to other possibilities/philosophies rather than the established/defined religion...
Only if you view the Greeks as Athens in the idealised version of Aristotle. The poleis differed substantially in how they viewed religion and how inflexible their religious views were. Take Sparta: they wouldn't march into battle unless the omens were right and they wouldn't violate a sacred day for any reason. Plato's short work on the death of Socrates on the charge of atheism ring any bells?

You are also focusing way too much on the Greek mainland as opposed to looking to the Greeks of Egypt, Anatolia, North Africa and so on. I mean look at the cult of Isis and who it was transmitted to the Romans by or the cult of Cybele for another one.

Now as far as I am aware looking at animal entrails, the flight of an eagle, interpreting dreams (all to be found in Homer incidentally) and so forth is pretty superstitious by modern standards.

Quote:
need I quote a doubter or two for you?
If you like but I'll just start quoting the literature and authors right back at you as I never denied some Greek thinkers were; like Cicero later, very skeptical, but these aren't and cannot be taken as representative of the Greek poleis.

Quote:
The period after Rome's fall ("The Dark Ages") is rightly defined.
Actually it wasn't: you can only view it as such if you focus purely on the (alleged) slavish following of Augustine and Boethius by Christian thinkers (which was to be corrected only by Aquinas) as opposed to everything else that was going on, which was actually merely a decentralised continuation of Rome without the degeneracy to a large extent.

Quote:
We were fucked for the better part of a millenia...
You mean the age of Charlemagne, the Vikings, the foundation of France, the Anglo-Saxons, the rule of the Visigoths, the jew laws of Erwig and so forth? Twas an age of religious violence and the good old fashioned massacre before they started calling them 'war crimes'. I rather like the age personally as it reminds me of the time the Greeks hypothesized as the 'Age of Heroes'.

The 'Dark Ages' is; I am sorry to say, an idiotic 'enlightenment' axiom that has prevented a proper appreciation of the fact that our ancestors were a fairly sophisticated bunch and their Christianity was largely nominal apart from among the elite. A bit like the jews of Khazaria if you want another example.

A good book you might like to pick up is Charles Oman's 'The Art of War in the Middle Ages' (in reality from the end of the Empire to the Reformation) which would give you some food for thought I think.

Although it doesn't include the latest research which suggests your 'fucked' populations were using primitive tanks in siege warfare or bathed fairly regularly in bath houses (which monks and clerics stridently disliked as it was 'worldly').
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Old November 17th, 2012 #199
Matthaus Hetzenauer
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Originally Posted by Karl Radl View Post
According to who? I've read an awful lot on and by Luther and he never came across as anything other than a true believer in an age when such beliefs were normal.



Only if you view the Greeks as Athens in the idealised version of Aristotle. The poleis differed substantially in how they viewed religion and how inflexible their religious views were. Take Sparta: they wouldn't march into battle unless the omens were right and they wouldn't violate a sacred day for any reason. Plato's short work on the death of Socrates on the charge of atheism ring any bells?

You are also focusing way too much on the Greek mainland as opposed to looking to the Greeks of Egypt, Anatolia, North Africa and so on. I mean look at the cult of Isis and who it was transmitted to the Romans by or the cult of Cybele for another one.

Now as far as I am aware looking at animal entrails, the flight of an eagle, interpreting dreams (all to be found in Homer incidentally) and so forth is pretty superstitious by modern standards.



If you like but I'll just start quoting the literature and authors right back at you as I never denied some Greek thinkers were; like Cicero later, very skeptical, but these aren't and cannot be taken as representative of the Greek poleis.



Actually it wasn't: you can only view it as such if you focus purely on the (alleged) slavish following of Augustine and Boethius by Christian thinkers (which was to be corrected only by Aquinas) as opposed to everything else that was going on, which was actually merely a decentralised continuation of Rome without the degeneracy to a large extent.



You mean the age of Charlemagne, the Vikings, the foundation of France, the Anglo-Saxons, the rule of the Visigoths, the jew laws of Erwig and so forth?

The 'Dark Ages' is; I am sorry to say, an idiotic 'enlightenment' axiom that has prevented a proper appreciation of the fact that our ancestors were a fairly sophisticated bunch and their Christianity was largely nominal apart from among the elite. A bit like the jews of Khazaria if you want another example.

A good book you might like to pick up is Charles Oman's 'The Art of War in the Middle Ages' (in reality from the end of the Empire to the Reformation) which would give you some food for thought I think.

Although it doesn't include the latest research which suggests your 'fucked' populations were using primitive tanks in siege warfare or bathed fairly regularly in bath houses (which monks and clerics stridently disliked as it was 'worldly').
Karl, time's short, so I gotta hustle...

Not everyone who got caught in a thunderstorm shit his pants and swore up and down to "serve the Lord"...not even in the 16th century. Like I said, ML was an overly-superstitious asshole even back in his day, and I can back that up. (Read Richard Marius' bio on the fucker; the best, IMO, ever written).

Anyway, gotta boogie -- we'll continue this conversation later.
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Old November 17th, 2012 #200
Steven L. Akins
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Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
You're confusing rotation and revolution again, Maharaji McNewton.
I'm afraid you are the one that is confused. The earth makes one full rotation every 24 hours; or rather we break down the progressive motion it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation into 24 equal units of measurement that we call hours.
 
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