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Old November 24th, 2008 #1
Mleccha
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Mleccha
Default Aryan Agrarian

Here's a "proem" I found a long time ago googling around:

And somewhere in that migration now believed to be Ukraine,

These pale skinned agricultural men encountered the horses they would tame,

They attached them to the wheel and rode them south again,

Like warm air rising then cooling and coming back down,

White skin dropping back south where once they had been brown,

Like Vikings of the land but with horses and chariots too,

Back south they traveled over how many a migration and generation as their numbers grew,


http://www.goodtimebob.com/aryan.htm

Definitely not from a "WN" angle, but pretty faithful to all the general ideas in the present, finalized picture of the Aryans / Indo-Europeans, with the occasional rhyme.
 
Old November 24th, 2008 #2
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Originally Posted by Mleccha View Post
[Definitely not from a "WN" angle, but pretty faithful to all the general ideas in the present, finalized picture of the Aryans / Indo-Europeans, with the occasional rhyme.
"Finalized" by whom, for instance? J.P. Mallory?
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Old November 25th, 2008 #3
Mleccha
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"Finalized" by whom, for instance? J.P. Mallory?
One could say his book is a more than adequate summary, despite some weakness in the linguistics and an over-reliance on Dumézil in mythology. There are two or three other scholars whose work is as valuable as his. Taken together, nothing need be added to "Indo-European research"; could stand a heavy rewriting, but who is talented enough to strike a balance between encomium and description.
 
Old November 25th, 2008 #4
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I beg to differ. There is still a great deal of debate and learning needed in the field of Indo-European studies.
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Old November 25th, 2008 #5
Mleccha
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I beg to differ. There is still a great deal of debate and learning needed in the field of Indo-European studies.
Careful, insisting on a "need for debate on this topic" is a Jewish tactic to avoid final solutions!
 
Old November 25th, 2008 #6
Anne
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Uhh, no. Even with the Homeland thesis alone, everyone knows there is still debate.
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Old November 25th, 2008 #7
Mleccha
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Uhh, no. Even with the Homeland thesis alone, everyone knows there is still debate.
Ah yes, Everyone! I forgot all about him.

Thanks for ruining my post, btw. Can't a brotha just share some rhymez.
 
Old November 25th, 2008 #8
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Sorry. Can't help posing for the boys, you know.
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Old November 25th, 2008 #9
Mleccha
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Sorry. Can't help posing for the boys, you know.
At least you know you're posing. In all seriousness though, if you're remotely capable, the Ukrainian LGM Refuge is the end of that story. We knew a long time ago this was the "sweet spot", but at last genetics and geology converged to destroy to all other hypotheses (the only worthy contender having been the Anatolian). You must understand that talk of further "debate" or "proof", or the inevitability of uncertainty, is nothing more than modern scientific rhetoric. These things not only can be, but have been proved a few times over: if you wait for a modern scholar to say so you'll be waiting forever. It was never even far-fetched to begin with; I can name at least four scholars of the 19thC. who, long before modern genetics, concluded that the "borderland", in particular the lower Donets'k / Black Sea Depression, was the obvious origin of these "Aryans". You must beware of taking up the overly cautious rhetoric of the modern scholar in endlessly deferring the obvious conclusion to a pretty obvious problem, not least because in this field they're all under the taboo of not seeming too passionate about Aryan origins. Why do you think Bruce Lincoln (an actual Marxist) was suspicious of Dumézil and attempts to discredit him every five years? Because the latter relied on Stig Wikander, who was a Nazi. Why is Gamkrelidze still taken seriously — could it be because he's non-Aryan and wrote his masterpiece under the Soviets? why are Drews & Renfrew such insufferable plodding dunderheads in face of Witzel, Mallory & Anthony?

Truth is, there's all the evidence one could wish for, but a bunch of little people who don't want it to be finished retard consensus, who've made a career out of their pet theories and can't afford a volte-face, even a slight north-west reorientation You must also consider, to be genuinely conscionable in thinking about this matter, that your own insistence on a need for "debate and learning" (all the foregoing men aren't learned enough for Anne?) bespeak nothing more than the adoption of tentative scientific rhetoric by an amateur. And more generally this is emblematic of the whole problem of the concept of "uncertainty" in scientific rhetoric, which leaves the masses even further behind by pushing an alleged relativity of evidence well apart from the fields where such methodology is genuinely salubrious; and altogether this represents nothing more than the reification of methodology (hypothesis, tentative research, the "objective" demurral before finality) into a scientific prejudice, but now I'm quite far over your head, I realize.

The reason I posted "Aryan Agrarian", apart from it being unique and amusing, is that the author does a good job throwing all that's known and need be known into it, doesn't overplay the alleged "uncertainty" to which everyone's become accustomed to pay completely mindless lip service, and gives no attention at all to the wilder "theories" which've dogged IE (Atlantis, the Moon, Siberia, Scandinavia, lately OIT — vide John V. Day's book for a good précis of all the bullshit).

So unless you have something substantive to say about precisely how Indo-European origins are still, as ever, "mysterious", please shut the fuck up.
 
Old November 25th, 2008 #10
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Listen, buddy, it was Mallory himself who said that in terms of the I.E. homeland, there is controversy and the only question is where are they putting it now?

BTW, no need to get so emotional and hostile in tone.
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Old November 25th, 2008 #11
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Listen, buddy, it was Mallory himself who said that in terms of the I.E. homeland, there is controversy and the only question is where are they putting it now?
ALL SCHOLARS SAY SHIT LIKE THAT. Professional statements of uncertainty, disclaimers, genuflection before "controversy" is de rigueur above all in IE research. This is what I am trying to learn you, here. It's an important lesson. Maybe you need to read more smart person books, I dunno, but you should've noticed by now that all Mallory-types are under significant peer pressure to toe a certain line at their respective universities. If this were discussed in another context, e.g. as "cultural Marxist programming in universities", you would instantly agree. What I am telling you is that these disclaimers about the mysterious insuperable uncertainty of the Indo-Europeans, inserted in the prefaces to their 500-page books laying out in minutest detail across four or five specialties precisely how certainly we know where these people originated, lived, and moved, are completely worthless and not meant to be taken seriously. Do you not see the titanic contradiction? why does a man spend decades mastering a dozen languages and enough of three scientific pursuits to tie them all together at last throw up his hands and assure you it's all dreadfully controversial and no one can be sure of anything? how can something be certain enough to measure the bit-wear on ancient equine incisors and yet not certain in the least, after all? do you not see the self-censorship at work there? It's a big part of how the Jews have mastered us, you know: they learned to play on our conscience.

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BTW, no need to get so emotional and hostile in tone.
You have a singular ability to misread your opponent in actual debate, or at least to speak as though you do. You have so far accused me of feeling threatened, anxious, libidinous toward you ("WN women"), being manipulative, and now the barely sensible emotional / hostile. However, if I go on about this subject, it's because

I KNOW MORE THAN YOU ABOUT IT.
 
Old November 25th, 2008 #12
Anne
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Why don't you like me, Mleccha? You must concede that you came to VNN and went after me directly. I can see that you've read and made references to many of my posts, above and beyond all others, and you seem uniquely focussed on my ideology and theology.

You really would like to teach me a lesson, wouldn't you?
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Old November 25th, 2008 #13
Mleccha
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Why don't you like me, Mleccha? You must concede that you came to VNN and went after me directly. I can see that you've read and made references to many of my posts, above and beyond all others, and you seem uniquely focussed on my ideology and theology.
Because you waste your potential being "nationalistically correct". You become less yourself the more you swallow & parrot WN rhetoric. Mind you, there is room to exist between PC and WN: you just have to keep your eyes open for the little ways in which you've been re-doctrinated. This is a delicate matter which generally gets one instantly labelled a Jew, and that is the cardinal means of deflecting criticism among this set. They don't want to think their "narrative" or "discourse" needs some ironing out. They take it up as it's found with little to no modification. Why? Because people do not think: they seek comfort. Thinking is uncomfortable. Internet identities are created to make people more comfortable. The question is, are you quite sure you're meant to sound exactly like every other WN in cyberspace? or are you quite sure you're meant for this at all, or should you remember that you're young and will probably grow out of certain things which, right now, you take seriously? There is much pleasure in playing the hard-ass ideologue: believe me, I was there while you were still getting whacked on the knuckles by Mother Superior. And I was even more serious.

It's a big hardon you can't sustain into your late twenties. Don't rush into anything. Beware of jingoism from all sides.


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You really would like to teach me a lesson, wouldn't you?
Oh man, that sounds kinky.

But rly, I've given you gold, here. You just have to read past what you've trained yourself, or been trained, to find suspicious or disagreeable, and look at the substance.
 
Old November 26th, 2008 #14
Anne
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People do come and go, and yes, it isn't always easy to sustain energy and enthusiasm. (There will be dark nights of the soul). But, there are those who are more than mere hobbyists. Some folks, for whatever reason, (a few scientists claim to have shown that xenophobia can be linked to the most primitive part of the brain--for simple survival, our ancestors HAD to be suspicious of marauding ousiders who would steal women, resources, etc.), have no choice about their ideology--it is part of their being.

You seem kind of jaded. Maybe you need a mentor. I am fortunate in knowing an older gentleman who has been involved in WN since the time of Rockwell (proving that it is possible to sustain dedication). After talking with him, my spirits are lifted!
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Old November 26th, 2008 #15
Mleccha
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You seem kind of jaded. Maybe you need a mentor.
Ah, condescension now. Quite a change from giving me positive rep / conceding defeat ("Fair enough.") last night, which I was perfectly willing to keep between us. Recovered your moxie, I guess. Doesn't work for you though. Too naive.

In any case, done with you.
 
Old November 26th, 2008 #16
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"Fair enough", as in you made a valid point regarding avoiding jingoism. I'm a reasonable person, you know.
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Old December 15th, 2008 #17
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You seem kind of jaded. Maybe you need a mentor. I am fortunate in knowing an older gentleman who has been involved in WN since the time of Rockwell (proving that it is possible to sustain dedication). After talking with him, my spirits are lifted!
Hey Anne I heard that this gent lived in a trailer and you learned "WN" from him. How true is this claim?
 
Old December 15th, 2008 #18
Mike Mazzone of Palatine
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Hey Anne I heard that this gent lived in a trailer and you learned "WN" from him. How true is this claim?
Looking for juicy gossip to dig up. Mark Twain is still tying truth's shoes.
 
Old December 15th, 2008 #19
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Looking for juicy gossip to dig up.
Mike if you had any gray matter in that swollen third testicle growing on your shoulders (You should consider having a doctor remove the cancerous growth), then you'd know that gossip would be me affirming that as a fact.
 
Old December 15th, 2008 #20
Mike Mazzone of Palatine
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Mike if you had any gray matter in that swollen third testicle growing on your shoulders (You should consider having a doctor remove the cancerous growth), then you'd know that gossip would be me affirming that as a fact.
My cloak effectively covers my swollen genitalia.

 
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