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Old May 9th, 2019 #1
ColdFire
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Default Dialects



Dialects are a part of languages / countries . .

Definition of a dialect : A language / tongue which dissents from the officially standardised language of a region / script-language. .

Let's look at Germany . . dialects are very many here. .

In the case of Germany it is because the German people are not a single people . . We have Swabians , Frisians , Saxons etc . .

For a long time there even wasn't any 'German standard language' . .
Little breakdown on history . .

Germany came to pass when after the great peoples' migration in Europe in ancient times the Franks under Charlemagne united Germanic tribes in the middle of Europe under their leadership . . .

There were duchies , archduchies etc of different peoples . .

They weren't really one. . .

The first person who standardised German was the Protestant reformer Martin Luther ( he translated the Bible into what became known as 'high-German' ( Hochdeutsch ) ) . .

The first ones to adopt 'Luther's German' in old times was the bourgeoisie of Northern Germany . .

Today the 'best German' , it is said , is spoken in the Hannover region in Lower Saxony . .


. . in time more or less the whole Northern German area adopted 'Luther's German' . .

They abandoned their original dialect , 'Plattdeutsch',or the speakers of it became a minorty ( the language is still alive until today though ) . .

'Plattdeutsch' is based on the ancient Saxon tongue . . The Saxons were the tribe which settled in Northern Germany ( in contrast to the people today known as 'the Saxons' , living in the Dresden / Leipzig area ) . .

Apart from that , there are other dialect areas in Germany.

Swabian is spoken in the Stuttgart region ( Southern Germany ) for example . . It is related to 'Swiss-German' . . The ancient Swabians settled in that area . .

Bavarian-based dialects are spoken in the federal state of Bavaria itself as well as in parts of Austria . . .

The Western-German dialects include Mosel-franconian and the Rhineland-dialect . . They are even related to Dutch ( the bordering area ) . . These 'ripuarian' ( 'coastal' ) German dialects are said to be based on Frisian ( the ancient Germanic tribe which settled the coast in ancient times ) . .

The Middle-German dialects include the dialects spoken in Upper Saxony and Thuringia.

The city of Berlin is also known for its own dialect . .

- - -

I know in other European places like France it is known that Paris for example "speaks the best French" . . .

Often "the best version of the respective language" is spoken in the respective capitals . . such is the case in France.
But . . believe me . . it isn't the case for Germany

Au contraire , the Berlin-dialect is quite far from standard-German . .

Example . . The phrase "Das will ich kaufen" ("I want to buy that") in the Berlin-dialect would sound "Det will ick koofen".

Berlin was chosen as the German capital once because it was the main city of Prussia ( Germany was united under Prussia ) , not the because the best German is spoken there

- - -

Anyway . .

Concerning other Caucasian countries. .

I know Britain also has quite a vivid dialect / tongue landscape with 'Oxford English' being regarded as the best British english.

Same with the USA . . different regions , different influences in the language . .

Concerning the English language in general . . I know that there are different varieties of English , like for example that 'Pidgin'-english spoken by Negroes especially in the Caribbean . .

Jamaican 'Patois' . .




( based on trying to imitate the 'simplified English' the European colonial overseers spoke with the black slaves . .)

- - - -

In closing a song sung in the ancient dialect of my area ( Northern Germany ) . .



Last edited by ColdFire; May 9th, 2019 at 01:39 PM.
 
Old May 9th, 2019 #2
Ray Allan
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Well ColdFire, the small amount of German I know is all 'hochdeutsch' apparently the same as spoken in your area of northern Germany (Bremen/Hannover), so I would have trouble understanding a speaker from Bavaria or Austria or even Berlin. Depending on what English pronunciation you learned (I'm assuming 'Oxford' English?), it would probably be difficult for you to understand American southern accents. Most of my family came from the South and Texas, but I was born and grew up in the West, so I don't speak in a Southern accent, but the flatter, more monotoned 'Western' accent.
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Old May 9th, 2019 #3
ColdFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Allan View Post
Well ColdFire, the small amount of German I know is all 'hochdeutsch' . .
Yeah . . I figured . . Standard German is already a difficult language to learn for non-native speakers . . To even learn / understand German dialects is a more difficult task . .

Quote:
. . apparently the same as spoken in your area of northern Germany (Bremen/Hannover) . .
Yep . . us northern Germans are often commended for our almost 'accent-free Hochdeutsch' . .

My area brings that with itself . .

Whereas many people in Germany even until this day have problems talking accent-free Hochdeutsch.

But . . the ancient dialect of our area is also not forgotten even to the point that for children courses in 'Plattdeutsch' are offered to keep 'the old tongue of Northern Germany alive' . .

Quote:
. . so I would have trouble understanding a speaker from Bavaria or Austria or even Berlin.
. . even I would sometimes have . .

Bavarian is a very strong dialect and many Austrian dialects are based on Bavarian ( largely the same tribe of people ) . .

As for the Berlin dialect , Berlin being located on the Northern German plain too , it did keep its dialect nevertheless . . . The Berlin-dialect is based on Plattdeutsch with Hochdeutsch-elements thrown in . .
Quote:
Depending on what English pronunciation you learned (I'm assuming 'Oxford' English?)
I speak English fluently . . I'm also able to figure out whether someone is from the UK or the USA by hearing their accents . .

I myself , when switching from German to English , speak a 'neutral' English , some might call that an 'English without any regional accent' , some would call it 'how a German tries to talk English' . .

I can imitate a British accent if I want to as well as American but I'm 'neutral'

Quote:
. . it would probably be difficult for you to understand American southern accents.
If they talk fastly maybe yes . .

Though ,I watch many films in English language in the 'original' , i. e. not dubbed into German , and came across movies in 'British slang' as well as movies set in the American south with people talking typically . . I'm a bit trained on that field.

Quote:
Most of my family came from the South and Texas, but I was born and grew up in the West, so I don't speak in a Southern accent, but the flatter, more monotoned 'Western' accent.
Yes , regional changes can often lead to that . .
 
Old May 9th, 2019 #4
Stewart Meadows
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.
I've always been fascinated by the fact that Italy has such a huge amount of languages, dialects and subdialects. The following linguistic map will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:


 
Old May 9th, 2019 #5
ColdFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart Meadows View Post
.
I've always been fascinated by the fact that Italy has such a huge amount of languages, dialects and subdialects. The following linguistic map will give you an idea of what I'm talking about:


Yep . . always found that fascinating too.

The area of the Italian peninsula where the city of Rome is located was called the 'Latinum' since old times.

That's why the language "coming from that area" was / is called 'Latin'.

Today Italian as it is written ( i. e. standard-Italian) is the language closest to ancient Latin.
 
Old May 9th, 2019 #6
ColdFire
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I heard that in 'the Spanish-speaking world' there are also differences between for example Spain , Mexico , Chile et al . .

Spanish is the second most distributed language on Earth next to English . .

No wonder there are differences . .

Even in Spain itself . . As far as I know Castilian is the 'purest' Spanish . .

Some even go so far as to claim that the 'Spanish' in Mexico for example is merely 'a Spanish slang' . .

Same differences might probably exist for Portugal and Brazil . . .
 
Old May 9th, 2019 #7
Stewart Meadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
Today Italian as it is written ( i. e. standard-Italian) is the language closest to ancient Latin.
Yes, that's what a lot of people say, and I can certainly see why, but according to many linguists there's a Romance language that's even closer to Latin - Sardinian:

Quote:
Sardinian or Sard (sardu/sadru [ˈsaɾdu/'sadru], limba sarda [ˈlimba ˈzaɾda] or ĺngua sarda [ˈliŋɡu.a ˈzaɾda]) is the primary indigenous Romance language spoken by the Sardinians on most of the island of Sardinia. Many Romance linguists consider it the closest genealogical descendant to Latin.[5][6] However, it also incorporates a Pre-Latin (mostly Paleo-Sardinian and, to a much lesser degree, Punic) substratum,[7] as well as a Byzantine Greek, Catalan, Spanish and Italian superstratum due to the political membership of the island, which became a Byzantine possession followed by a significant period of self-rule, fell into the Iberian sphere of influence in the late Middle Ages, and eventually into the Italian one in the 18th century.
(…)
Sardinian is considered the most conservative Romance language,[20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language
 
Old May 11th, 2019 #8
Gladiatrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
[IMG]

Same with the USA . . different regions , different influences in the language . .

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