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Old February 13th, 2013 #21
Leonard Rouse
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But please note: I do not have personal experience with softening. I lived in an area one time where a bunch of people got sold on giant salt blocks (like for cattle, just bigger, supposedly) that were somehow installed between their wells and house. I thought it was some sort of passive filtration, but I guess I was wrong. I never actually saw one, just heard about it from 5 different people after the fact. To my knowledge, they all just quit buying the blocks eventually.

I actually had no idea water softeners were so complicated until I searched last night.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #22
Jimmy Marr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
Well, I did a google search and came up with several instances of a softening system going haywire and causing these problems, including the taste and knocking. Something to do with a ball valve sticking in the brine tank. Or it might be the (air check valve?). Gets screwed up during the (regeneration cycle?).

If this is the case, I'm guessing this may be the cause somehow of the cold line being siphoned back into the hot water tank.

That's why I was hoping Fred's system was installed with a bypass, where he could just cut-out the softening system and see if the problem suddenly corrects itself.
I haven't a clue about softeners except that in the only one I've seen there was a bypass to the kitchen tap so as to avoid the use of softened water in cooking and drinking. If that's the case in this system, an asymptomatic cold tap in the kitchen would point to trouble in softener.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #23
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How would I know if there is a bypass?

The Water softening system does have two valve handles at the top of the tanks. Are they them?

I need to research this further.

Last edited by Fred; February 13th, 2013 at 08:07 AM.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #24
Leonard Rouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
How would I know if there is a bypass?

The Water softening system does have two valve handles at the top of the tanks. Are they them?

I need to research this further.
Those would be two of the three necessary.



The logic would look like that. (Doesn't have to be copper, of course.) The water would be coming down one side and then up the other (or up, then down, depending on how the softener is installed relative to the main line).
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #25
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I'll do anything to avoid hiring an expert. My most notable failure was trying to prove to my wife and kids that it didn't require a fucking genius to tune a piano.

Some things a hard to fake. And the piano tuner's guild is a hard one to break. I couldn't get my hands on the specialized tools and instrumentation, so ended breaking down and calling a goddamned tuner.

He was scheduled to arrive at 9:00AM. I woke up that morning with a hangover to find that one or more of my 5 dogs had eaten an entire bottle of Vitamin A. Resisting the hiring of a vet, I sent my wife to the store to fetch a large quantity of hydrogen peroxide and began purging the leading canine suspect.

As fate would have it, I struck the scent of fish oil in the fifth suspect, and by that time I was already up to my ankles in frothy dog puke when the piano tuner rang the doorbell.

The fucker earned his keep that day.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #26
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The key symptom that makes me skeptical of the water softener hypothesis is hot water coming out the cold tap.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #27
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Quote:
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I really don't know how to work on plumbing. I have never done it before. You see, I can understand how it works but not fix it myself. I am an engineer.
there's only three things you need to know to be a plumber:
1) you get paid on Friday
2) shit rolls downhill and
3) don't chew your fingernails.
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Old February 13th, 2013 #28
Leonard Rouse
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I have a notion this thread could be the prime exposé in an upcoming SPLC Intelligence Report.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #29
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The key symptom that makes me skeptical of the water softener hypothesis is hot water coming out the cold tap.
On the other hand. I now see the problem with my own hypothesis about backflow from steam pressure in the hot water heater is that the pressure relief valve would have bled it off before it could pushed hot water back into the softener.

I'm baffled. I haven't seen hot water at a cold tap since Three Stooges.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #30
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On the other hand. I now see the problem with my own hypothesis about backflow from steam pressure in the hot water heater is that the pressure relief valve would have bled it off before it could pushed hot water back into the softener.

I'm baffled. I haven't seen hot water at a cold tap since Three Stooges.
I was thinking some hiccup back at the softener could be causing a backflow that was pulling hot water out of the tank into the cold line. It wouldn't necessarily have to pull all the way back into the softener itself (in my fantasy).

====================

This thing has a drain, right? Is the air gap unimpeded or the backflush valve (if any) in proper working order?

====================

Watch the solution have -0- to do with the water softener.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #31
Jimmy Marr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
I have a notion this thread could be the prime exposé in an upcoming SPLC Intelligence Report.
Yeah, me too. I mean what do we really know about Fred. He may not even have a well, or a softener, or a drain valve, or window to throw it out of.

He's probably down their at SPLC laughing his ass off.

Ever wondered why O'Malley is not all over this thread?

He's either too smart, or in on it himself. Gol dangit, we've been tricked again, Lenny.
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #32
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Man, don't get me started about water problems....I have a cistern/jet pump system that's caused me so many expensive headaches over the years itz a wonder my head didn't explode....Just day before yesterday I got the latest resolved. We had a very bad cold/high wind snap 2 weeks ago that blew the lid off the hole in the ground with the pump. No water. Called out the goddamn plumber: said he didn't know what the problem was. "Uh, it could be the impeller in the pump, or it could, uh, be the foot valve in the cistern - but I can't lift that cistern lid. Anyway, changing the foot valve would cost $515, and replacing the pump would run $1600..." Fuck THAT... I had a "handyman" (BWAHAHAHA!!) neighbor who has a plumber uncle take a look. Trouble pinpointed: a burst pump from freezing. Off to Lowe's to spend $220 on a new one - which he immediately destroys by neglecting to switch down from 220 to 120: right back to Lowe's....FINALLY got the bitch together & working again - until the next round o' fun.....

Within the last 4 years I've been forced to spend nearly $3000 just to keep the fucking water on....
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Old February 13th, 2013 #33
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I know water bills suck but so do wells. I have spent some bucks keeping mine going.


I called the plumber and he got held up on another job so he could not make it today. He said he will be around in the morning. I will keep you guys updated on what the problem was once it is fixed.


BTW: If I were in with the SPLC Fred O would have busted me by now!

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Old February 13th, 2013 #34
Leonard Rouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr View Post
Yeah, me too. I mean what do we really know about Fred. He may not even have a well, or a softener, or a drain valve, or window to throw it out of.

He's probably down their at SPLC laughing his ass off.

Ever wondered why O'Malley is not all over this thread?

He's either too smart, or in on it himself. Gol dangit, we've been tricked again, Lenny.
Hah

I was thinking more along the lines of an 'Intelligence' Report about 'How many WN does it take to turn on the water'?
 
Old February 13th, 2013 #35
Jimmy Marr
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I called the plumber and he got held up on another job so he could not make it today.
Fia da bastid and git a reputable plumma:

http://www.cohenplumbing.com/
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #36
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Come on Fred.

Whose diagnosis was more accurate?

A) Jimmy's Virtual Plumbing

or

B) Lenny's Google-Rooter
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #37
Leonard Rouse
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Racist Cyber-Terror Targets Household Infrastructure

Last edited by Leonard Rouse; February 15th, 2013 at 02:08 PM.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #38
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The plumber is here now. He is simply baffled.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #39
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No success. The plumber has no clue. It is a mystery.

I am calling the well guy now.
 
Old February 15th, 2013 #40
Jimmy Marr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
No success. The plumber has no clue. It is a mystery.

I am calling the well guy now.
Jesus. What've you got out there a plumber's union and a separate well worker's union?

This reminds me of California carpenters who wouldn't frame in a toilet paper dispenser for fear it'd cut in on the plumbers union.

Oh well, at least we can rule out that Rube Goldberg theory about the water softener.

This "Living White" section is giving the 'Tard Corral a run for its money.

PS: Sorry to make light of your troubles, Fred, but if I don't sink my spurs into Leonard while he's down, I won't get chance to do it at all. And, I find that prospect intolerable.
 
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