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Old May 29th, 2004 #1
chrissy
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Default '' THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY"

I really like this new forum on VNN, I'll post my messages here from now on. I was wondering what the members here say to people who say but this is a free country or this is the freest country in the world '". I've mentioned the way the government controls who employers hire and also has laws pertaining to real estate and oversees rentals and homesellers. I've also explained to people how our foreign policy is set without input from us. I also think that the unbelievable amount of crime we suffer from shows that we are oppressed. But people will still say we can travel anywhere we want and we can speak up about things we don't like. I don't think we can speak up about the real problems here , not whites any way. This seems like a real problem in attracting more whites to the WN movement, since so many say "this is a free country". Pat Buchanan said in one article of his the government controls every action of the citizens in this country now. But this hasn't gotten through to the average person yet. What's a good answer to that statement?
 
Old May 29th, 2004 #2
Alex Linder
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy
I really like this new forum on VNN, I'll post my messages here from now on. I was wondering what the members here say to people who say but this is a free country or this is the freest country in the world '". I've mentioned the way the government controls who employers hire and also has laws pertaining to real estate and oversees rentals and homesellers. I've also explained to people how our foreign policy is set without input from us. I also think that the unbelievable amount of crime we suffer from shows that we are oppressed. But people will still say we can travel anywhere we want and we can speak up about things we don't like. I don't think we can speak up about the real problems here , not whites any way. This seems like a real problem in attracting more whites to the WN movement, since so many say "this is a free country". Pat Buchanan said in one article of his the government controls every action of the citizens in this country now. But this hasn't gotten through to the average person yet. What's a good answer to that statement?
First, I'm glad you like this new forum. That's our mission, attract good, serious people.

It's difficult to tell people they're not free when they think they are. I would begin with taxes. Ask them if they were forced to turn over 100% of their income to the government whether they'd consider that slavery. So what does it make them if that figure is 40-50%?

Point out that it is illegal to place an ad to rent your house to Whites. Or to advertise that you seek to hire only Whites. ILLEGAL. And that this has been done in the name of "civil rights."

I'm afraid the unfortunate fact is that the country is so dumbed down and indoctrinated by decades of jewish lies, that these points are too subtle for most whites. They'll go with you some on the taxes, but as polls have shown, the average American couldn't tell you the difference between Karl Marx and the Constitution.

Try to find reflections of our truths in their daily lives. Then draw a connection to the fact that it is usually literally ILLEGAL to do anything about a certain problem.

Black crime -- it is illegal for whites to segregate themselves. Both parties celebrate this! So where's the freeedom and diversity when everyone's saying the same thing? Make connection to South Africa and Zimbabwe, and what's happening there. Assuming they've heard of these countries.

Mexican invasion -- tell them who is responsible for opening the borders. This is information that virtually nobody knows.
 
Old May 29th, 2004 #3
Whirlwind
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Does everyone know the freedon bit by J. Nicholson in Easy Rider? He tells Billy that although Americans call themselves free, that if they see an actual free person, it scares them. But it doesn't make them running scared, it makes them mean. Free to travel wherever we want? After being checked out a**hole to appetite. Free to own guns. If you pick the right one, and have never done anything worse that spitting on the sidewalk. Free to hire who we choose. As long as you have enough gov't. approved minorities first.
If you are hearing specific examples of how we're free, that you'd like a refutation for, just post them.
 
Old May 30th, 2004 #4
Mike Jahn
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlwind
Does everyone know the freedon bit by J. Nicholson in Easy Rider? He tells Billy that although Americans call themselves free, that if they see an actual free person, it scares them. But it doesn't make them running scared, it makes them mean. Free to travel wherever we want? After being checked out a**hole to appetite. Free to own guns. If you pick the right one, and have never done anything worse that spitting on the sidewalk. Free to hire who we choose. As long as you have enough gov't. approved minorities first.
If you are hearing specific examples of how we're free, that you'd like a refutation for, just post them.
And if we have so much Freedom of Speech, why does everyone in the "mainstream" hold the exact same views on race? That it doesn't exist?? Really, when has Bush Jr. ever used the word "White" as in White race??? And yet the fools in the masses still somehow assume that the Republican Party represents the White majority.
 
Old May 30th, 2004 #5
Georgie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoRemer
And if we have so much Freedom of Speech, why does everyone in the "mainstream" hold the exact same views on race? That it doesn't exist?? Really, when has Bush Jr. ever used the word "White" as in White race??? And yet the fools in the masses still somehow assume that the Republican Party represents the White majority.
EXACTLY! Lemmings boast of how much "freedom" this country has and how we are free to do anything we want yet, thats not really true is it? As you pointed out, the mainstream "opinion" is one and the same. Different opinions are shunned/banned/hateful/etc. In such a "free" country, why is it that way?

Its just one of those things that lemmings wont ever realize on their own.

Just keep the fast food joints open, keep releasing new rap CD's and keep them television shows running and nothing else matters.
 
Old May 30th, 2004 #6
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Default A Blackman's cry. Apartheid would be Freedom in Britain

Recently, the Television quoted the Immigration Minister, as saying that to be a British Citizen, is something to be proud of.

I immediately wrote to her, asking her to prove it. But despite numerous letters, she just will not reply. I am sure that if she could prove it, she would then have answered.

How the hell can I be proud of being a British Citizen, when as a Black man, I can be arrested and locked up for several hours, when I have not done anything wrong. Furthermore, there is nothing one can do about it: the Police Complaints Authority will not investigate; no solicitors would take my Case and no Organization dealing with Justice and Human Right will take up my Case. This proves without the shadow of a doubt that there is no Justice and Human Rights in this country.

Yes, since 1995 I have a prisoner in my own home, unable to go out anymore, for fear of being arrested and locked up again. I was arrested simply because I was trying to collect my own two children from school and locked up for four hours. Since, I have contacted the Police Complaints Authority, hundreds of Solicitors, and Organizations who supposedly deal with Justice and Human Rights, and there is absolutely no one who wants to know. I shudder to think what will happen to me, physically and mentally, if for the rest of my life, I cannot go out of my house any more; but there does not seem to be anything I can do about it.

On top of that, the government insists of giving me the Right to Vote in England. This is adding insult to injury. I do not want the Right to Vote in England; I refuse the right to Vote.

But as the Electoral Commission insist that I must have the right to vote, whether I like it or not, I must ask someone to take my Case up to the Home secretary – I want him to either deport me or have me executed. This would be more humane than giving me the right to vote and then refused all Justice and Human Right, as a Black man.

If any one is truly interested in Justice and Human Right, I would ask him or her to contact me, so that I can provide the full details of my Whole Case.

Please contact me on my email address, which is: [email protected]

Thank you

France Chorley

From the North of London,
England
 
Old June 1st, 2004 #7
Fredrik Haerne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlwind
Does everyone know the freedon bit by J. Nicholson in Easy Rider?
Reminds me of another movie, Beyond the Law, where Charlie Sheen is an undercover cop trying to bring down a gang of bikers. Naturally, he is attracted to their way of life more and more and begins to doubt who he is, etc, etc.

In this movie he sits down with the biker leader and some other guys out in the open, at night, and the leader gives a speech about why you should be a biker. He talks about how people waste their lives as drones, and when you realize life that way is without meaning and going nowhere "there is no choice: you have to join us."

It is one of the best speeches ever. Such a shame I never wrote it down. Now, I'm not one to look for excuses for spending my life in a biker gang or similar, but any man who does not feel the wilderness beckon is no man at all. You have to strike a balance: build a life with a home and an income, but use it as a platform to do greater things, freer things, things so many of the lost souls in the concrete city would not dare dream of. When will you rage?

Last edited by Fredrik Haerne; June 2nd, 2004 at 09:50 AM.
 
Old June 1st, 2004 #8
Derrick Beukeboom
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Default The Illusion of being free

We in the US live in tyranny. In many ways this tyranny is more insidious w than straight to the point physical tyranny like one might find in say Castro controlled Cuba or Idi Amin's Uganda of the 1970's.
As horrid as these examples are, the current US tyranny is much more subtle but just as dangerous for us in the long run. In a way, it would be better if the Zogsters wanted to openly discuss their plans for subjugation of our personal freedoms. But no. They do not do this like Castro and Amin did. Why?
Because the White Man (and probably others) would not let this happen and fight back. The Military we have now (all volunteer, many weekend warriors liek the National Guard) would rebel aganist the Zog generals, politicians and corporate weasels quickly.

The select few who have decided to make the US the tyrannical empire it is now are mostly jews, bought for white politicians, corporate scumbags and media/academic intellectuals who wish to put forth their agenda upon everyone else.
America is now weak willed. All about money, demographic destruction, cultural havoc and whats good for the jews.
What's good for the jews is having White people think they are free when they are not.

The beginning of this tyranny can be traced to 1865 when the founding principles of the fathers of this country lost out to other interests who were primarily commerical, financial and ideologically contrary to most average Americans interests.
Ah, power usually attracts tyrannical people.
Perfect place for the jews to prosper, which they have.

The end result is what we have today. I'd say Dr. Antichrist is pretty much right on target.
Things are not going well for us.
 
Old June 2nd, 2004 #9
chrissy
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Well said Derrick, I've thought that before too, how much better for us if the zionist-liberal leaders were honest about what they're doing. Everything is scarier now i've learned a lot in the past couple years that's bad. There's a book I read called America the Conquered, where he talks about the changes that have happened, the changes in men, women, changes in the military and the police, he describes how we once had peace officers and now they are law enforcement officers writing endless tickets and watching for whites committing crimes. If they were honest about people would react a little better and we wouldn't be made to look like the nuts. I thought before it's like white people are standing close to a cliff and they keep telling us to move over and we move and then they come back saying no move further over and it never stops. They have arranged an alliance between our enemies and the majority of whites don't see it.
 
Old June 2nd, 2004 #10
Glex
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It's obviously a free country. You’re using this board, aren’t you?

Every single person on this forum is free to say how they feel about jews. Or blacks. Or other non-whites. Completely free. Say what you want about them. Sounds like freedom to me. And it’s not just limited to this forum.

If you wanted to, you could stand out on a street corner, screaming about how much you “hate those evil satanic jews”. You wouldn’t be very popular, but you are certainly free to do so.

You want free speech? You’re soaking in it!
 
Old June 2nd, 2004 #11
MOMUS
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Glex, the master of the meaningless obviosity. Telling the prisoner that he can cavort in his cell as he pleases and thus is free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glex
It's obviously a free country. You’re using this board, aren’t you?

Every single person on this forum is free to say how they feel about jews. Or blacks. Or other non-whites. Completely free. Say what you want about them. Sounds like freedom to me. And it’s not just limited to this forum.

If you wanted to, you could stand out on a street corner, screaming about how much you “hate those evil satanic kikes”. You wouldn’t be very popular, but you are certainly free to do so.

You want free speech? You’re soaking in it!
 
Old June 2nd, 2004 #12
Fredrik Haerne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glex
You want free speech? You’re soaking in it!
Sure. Soaking in it, when schools and public libraries ban URLs from the computers, and proudly display communist and anti-White literature, but not nationalism. Soaking in it, when your grades fall if you say something, eh, not "kosher." Sure, the media treat all sides fairly, giving everyone a free hearing. *S*

Absolutely soaking in freedom, when the feds launch a campaign to jail dissenters at trumped-up charges. And hey, everybody is allowed to rent radio space, right? It's not like there would be any trouble for a guy who allowed a nationalist to air his show. Nope, never happened.

And gosh darn it, who can deny that Hollywood movies and shows, part of the world's most powerful propaganda machine, treat nationalists fairly? I mean, they talk about "proud White men" just as often as they talk about "proud Black men", right? Oh, yes. After all, doesn't Renée Zellweger pep-talk Tom Cruise with a "You're a strong, victorious White man" right after the Negro wife has done the same to her hubby?

To pretend that it's only a matter of what is written in law is bogus. The Jews do their thing legally and illegally, and the law follows suit. Speak out against that, and it's "hate speech".

It's allowed to use slurs against Whites in public, but not against Latinos, not even in a private conversation -- then you go to jail. Some freedom. You aren't allowed to build a store or a club only for your own kind, in the U.S. or anywhere in the West -- some freedom.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #13
Derrick Beukeboom
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Default Freedom in the jewSA? Ha!

Glex,
Since this is the new civil forum I will refrain from personally whipping you like a scolded dog. I guess Fredrik's retort pretty much accomplished that, albiet without a few choice words I would have used when describing that rotten vegetable you refer to as a brain.

Obviously, you missed the basic jist of everyones comments which were in a nutshell that we have the illusion of being free.
Sure, one can say on the web how much you despise the jews or blacks or what have you.....push the envelope a bit more and you wind up in jail for hate speech.

Fredrik provided a few examples of how your sense of "freedom" does not translate to substantive freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom to question those in charge.
Freedom of the press? I won't even bring this one up since we all know that jews effectively have neutered real objective journalism for their own selfish groups interests.

Or would you deny this fact?
Do you have anything to add about examples cited to you that illustrate that in the 'real world', our freedom is not what it used to be and in fact, actually ceases to exist when discussing SERIOUS racial, nationalistic and jewish topics????

Yes, I can sit here and type "I HATE THE JEWS AND WANT THEM TO PERISH BECAUSE THEY ARE MY RACE'S ENEMIES"......for now. Soon, if the JEWS have their way, that will be illegal too.
Presently, when Whites wish to look out for their own self interests, that is deemed illegal and 'hate'.

So, tell me once again about our freedoms.
We have the freedom to make a few shekels, recite the patriot propoganda and go along quietly without TAKING ACTION about our current racial plight.

Your sense of freedom is precisely what zog wants you to think you have.
Don't even think about DOING ANYTHING besides verbally screaming about it.
Talk? ok at the moment (as long as it does not INCITE).
Action? No, you can't do that.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #14
Glex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Sure. Soaking in it, when schools and public libraries ban URLs from the computers, and proudly display communist and anti-White literature, but not nationalism.
If you were in power, what would you ban? Interracial pornography? I bet you would. But your ban is morality, while their ban is "lack of freedom".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Soaking in it, when your grades fall if you say something, eh, not "kosher."
Bullshirt. Urban legend. Point out to me where a student has said something not kosher and had their grades dropped because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Sure, the media treat all sides fairly, giving everyone a free hearing. *S*
If you owned a media outlet, I’m sure you’d give a fair hearing to the next shaved head, bow-tie wearing brother that wanted to run his “kill all whiteys” editorial in your paper, right? You’d give a fair hearing to him, wouldn’t you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Absolutely soaking in freedom, when the feds launch a campaign to jail dissenters at trumped-up charges. And hey, everybody is allowed to rent radio space, right? It's not like there would be any trouble for a guy who allowed a nationalist to air his show. Nope, never happened.
So you think freedom is your right to someone else’s airtime? You should be allowed to rent my airtime, even if it goes against my beliefs? What about my freedom to do with my airtime as I see fit? But honestly, what is stopping you, other than money, from putting together your own radio show? Hell, why not your own TV station? You have your own Internet site. So it obviously isn’t impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
And gosh darn it, who can deny that Hollywood movies and shows, part of the world's most powerful propaganda machine, treat nationalists fairly?
Movies about the civil war don’t treat slave owners fairly either. You know what the prefect counter to that viewpoint is? Your own viewpoint! What’s stopping you? Show me the law that stops you. Not social convention, the actual law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
I mean, they talk about "proud White men" just as often as they talk about "proud Black men", right? Oh, yes. After all, doesn't Renée Zellweger pep-talk Tom Cruise with a "You're a strong, victorious White man" right after the Negro wife has done the same to her hubby?
Sounds like you’ve identified a potential market! Obviously you feel the need for movies that feature chubby girls affirming a pretty boy’s skin color. Then produce it! Make it! Distribute it! If the market is as big as you say it is, you’ll have no problem.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #15
Glex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
Glex,
Since this is the new civil forum I will refrain from personally whipping you like a scolded dog.
Phew! Thanks. I was worried about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
Obviously, you missed the basic jist of everyones comments which were in a nutshell that we have the illusion of being free.
Sure, one can say on the web how much you despise the jews or blacks or what have you.....push the envelope a bit more and you wind up in jail for hate speech.
Push the envelope? You are talking about the systematic and total destruction of an entire people! You are talking about genocide of the jews. I’d say the envelope is about as pushed as it’s going to get.

And yet, despite “day of the rope”, despite “vertical expulsion”, despite “Nothing goes right until we start killing jews”, no one here is in jail. You could go out on the street, right now, and say those things too. You might not be loved for doing do, but you are free to say it. If that's not freedom, what is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
Freedom of the press? I won't even bring this one up since we all know that jews effectively have neutered real objective journalism for their own selfish groups interests.
Just like you would do if you owned the newspapers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
Do you have anything to add about examples cited to you that illustrate that in the 'real world', our freedom is not what it used to be and in fact, actually ceases to exist when discussing SERIOUS racial, nationalistic and jewish topics????
Yes. This discussion. Here we are, having a rational conversation about jews, and no stormtroopers are breaking down the door to stop us. I’ll bet that you are NOT using your computer furtively, under cover of darkness, jumping from proxy to proxy, lest your terrible secret be found out, right?

You want another example? Linder’s demonstration against Brown. Did the police stop him? Was he arrested? Killed? None of that? Hmm! But I thought he didn’t have the freedom to so those things! How did those two dozen protesters of Linder get away with breaking the law like that? What law, you ask? Exactly.

And before you say “But Linder had restrictions”, etc. of course he did. Any demonstration, for any group, no matter what they have to say is going to have a few restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
Yes, I can sit here and type "I HATE THE JEWS AND WANT THEM TO PERISH BECAUSE THEY ARE MY RACE'S ENEMIES"......for now. Soon, if the JEWS have their way, that will be illegal too.
If you had your way, all jews would be killed outright. Being jewish itself would be illegal. Is that what you call freedom?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom
We have the freedom to make a few shekels, recite the patriot propoganda and go along quietly without TAKING ACTION about our current racial plight.
Take action all you want. Just don’t break the law doing it. It’s not too much to ask, is it?

Edited by Demonica [No Flaming-Please read the rules of this forum which are here:
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...59&postcount=1 ]
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #16
Fredrik Haerne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glex
If you were in power, what would you ban? Interracial pornography? I bet you would. But your ban is morality, while their ban is "lack of freedom".
You are avoiding the issue. But by doing so, you also admit that I am right: there is no real freedom. You can only resort to defending that by saying "in your society there wouldn't be freedom either!"

I rest my case. Your comment about us "soaking is freedom" was wrong, as you have now admitted.


Quote:
Bullshirt. Urban legend. Point out to me where a student has said something not kosher and had their grades dropped because of it.
This is the Civil Forum. Go on using that language and you will not be staying.

Urban legend? How about my own experience from where I live? Or, to take one example of many, that of my ex-gf in the northern U.S.

The classrooms are soaked in anti-White propaganda, from Stockholm to Los Angeles. Only a blind man, or a brainwashed one, could fail to see that.

At my ex-girlfriend's school they have something called "kill whitey day" every year. On that day the Black gangs beat up as many Whites as they can. The teachers do nothing to stop it. Nothing is written about it in the newspapers. Everybody turns a blind eye to it, because they know it is forbidden to criticize Blacks.

What would happen if a school had a "kill Blacks day"? Do you know of any school that has such a day? Me neither. The local newspaper would definitely write about it: "the racism inherent in our society!" The teachers would be handing out brochures about how the evil White racism is the main problem in society -- oh wait, they are doing that already. In the U.S., and in Sweden, and in Belgium and the rest of the West.

Funny thing, working as a temp teacher for a while I saw just this kind of brochure, even while the main problem with violence in the schools was -- what? Swedish kids being harrassed and beaten by the Arab and Black gangs in the hallways. The teachers talked about it in low voices in the teacher's lounge, making sure that the most fanatically anti-White teachers wouldn't hear what they were saying, because then they might find themselves out of jobs. Swedish girls are molested by the Arabs, and noone does anything. And how do they talk about the ever-increasing violence in the schools in the literature handed out by the School Department? "Violence and racism will not be accepted!" -- with stories about how Swedish "racism" causes all the problems, how Swedish "racists" beat up the poor immigrants and harrass them -- so far removed from reality as it could possibly be. The Arabs and Blacks even threaten the teachers, not only the Swedish students. When Swedes talk to each other about it, we say "Soon it will be just as bad as in the U.S." Actually, in the least White areas it already is. They get the most money and the most aid in a number of ways, but they show the worst results.


Quote:
So you think freedom is your right to someone else’s airtime? You should be allowed to rent my airtime, even if it goes against my beliefs?
You misread that.
What I wrote was that those who give airtime to nationalists receive threats of many kinds. Was that clearer?

Jewish organizations call them making threats about shutting down their business. If they don't comply, the Jews call their sponsors, making threats about breaking them if they don't stop sponsoring the "racist radio organization." And the Jews have the full cooperation of the Jew-dominated media behind them, so they get what they want.

This is how the National Alliance was pushed off the air by Jews all over the United States. This is why your comments about the law are ludicrous. The Jews do their thing laws or no laws.


Quote:
Sounds like you’ve identified a potential market! Obviously you feel the need for movies that feature chubby girls affirming a pretty boy’s skin color. Then produce it! Make it! Distribute it! If the market is as big as you say it is, you’ll have no problem.
*L* Perfect. You just stepped into the perfect example of Jewish control: television. What happened when Mel Gibson made a movie that wasn't even nationalist, but simply treated White people's religion seriously? He got blacklisted in Hollywood. Jewish organizations and media tried to harrass him into dropping the movie, and when they couldn't they made sure he won't get to work in that town again. And anyone who breaks the taboo will be thrown out in the cold as well. This is how the Jews win: by sticking together and attacking their enemies as one.

What the rest of the world has to do is give them a taste of their own medicine.

You say "show me the law that...." still pretending that we were talking only about the law. You are trying to make a strawman to attack. We weren't talking about the law. We were talking about actual reality. You find that hard to argue with, so you must pretend that it's about laws only.

But you want examples of laws? Fine. How about the "civil rights" laws that ban us from owning a shop, diner, hotel, etc for Whites only? Whites must not be allowed to associate only with Whites.

More laws: you are banned from telling the truth about race, about Jews, in Sweden, in Norway, in Denmark, in Germany, in France, and so on and so on. The United States is the ONLY COUNTRY where the right to free speech still exists, a blessing given by the White Founders to their people. And even there, it only exists in theory, hardly ever in practice. "Hate" speech is illegal, which confirms that it doesn't even really exist in theory anymore, only officially.

You cannot deny this, can you? Your only answer to it was that "You wouldn't allow free speech either!" So you have basically retracted your attempt at claiming there is free speech. Now you just have to stop being a hypocrite about it.

Last edited by Fredrik Haerne; June 3rd, 2004 at 12:08 PM.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #17
Glex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
You are avoiding the issue. But by doing so, you also admit that I am right: there is no real freedom. You can only resort to defending that by saying "in your society there wouldn't be freedom either!"

I rest my case. Your comment about us "soaking is freedom" was wrong, as you have now admitted.
And you are avoiding the question too. You admit that in your perfect society, there would also be restrictions on freedom. That ain't free, buddy. In your perfect society, no one would be free to choose their wives or husbands if that choice was "race: non-white", would they?

So in this society certain freedoms are curtailed. In your perfect society, some freedoms are curtailed. Can you tell me a place were this isn't the case?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
This is the Civil Forum. Go on using that language and you will not be staying.
Wuh, you going to tell mommy I said bullSHIRT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
At my ex-girlfriend's school they have something called "kill whitey day" every year. On that day the Black gangs beat up as many Whites as they can. The teachers do nothing to stop it. Nothing is written about it in the newspapers. Everybody turns a blind eye to it, because they know it is forbidden to criticize Blacks.
BULL! BULL! BULL! Utter BULL! That simply isn't true. If it is, prove it. If something like this really was true, it would be all over this forum! Why haven't you brought this up before? Because it's pure bull! That's why. Prove me wrong. Give me proof of "kill whitey day".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Swedish girls are molested by the Arabs, and noone does anything.
No one, no where? Sure. And I'm sure no Swedish white man has ever molested a girl. Is it worse because an Arab does it? What does a Swedish girl care who molested her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
how Swedish "racists" beat up the poor immigrants and harrass them -- so far removed from reality as it could possibly be.
So Swedish racists don't beat up immigrants?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
What I wrote was that those who give airtime to nationalists receive threats of many kinds. Was that clearer?
How's this for clarity? People often threaten what they don't like. Just a few days ago, here in America, an art gallery owner was punched in the face for "anti-American" art she had in the window. She got threats too. Do you really think you can put forward beliefs like "kill all jews" and not be attacked for it? Is taht what you think freedom is? To be able to say or do anything without consequence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Jewish organizations call them making threats about shutting down their business. If they don't comply, the Jews call their sponsors, making threats about breaking them if they don't stop sponsoring the "racist radio organization."
If you had an organization, you would do the exact same thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
This is how the National Alliance was pushed off the air by Jews all over the United States. This is why your comments about the law are ludicrous. The Jews do their thing laws or no laws.
Tell me more about how they were pushed. I'm not familiar with it. But really, isn't it freedom for them to do so? They protest and use their power against something they don't like. So do you. What's the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
*L* Perfect. You just stepped into the perfect example of Jewish control: television. What happened when Mel Gibson made a movie that wasn't even nationalist, but simply treated White people's religion seriously? He got blacklisted in Hollywood. Jewish organizations and media tried to harrass him into dropping the movie, and when they couldn't they made sure he won't get to work in that town again. And anyone who breaks the taboo will be thrown out in the cold as well. This is how the Jews win: by sticking together and attacking their enemies as one.
It is a perfect example, you are right. Because even though these "all powerfull" jews did everything they could to stop a film they didn't agree with (just like you would, BTW), they couldn't silence him. The film went on to gross mega millions. If he jews were really as powerful as you say, the film would not have come out at all, would it?

And, in keeping with the topic, if he didn't have freedom, he wouldn't have been able to put out the film at all would he? So, logically, the fact that he was free to make it, and we are free to watch it, proves we have the freedom! It may be unpopular to make a movie saying jews killed jesus, but it's not illegal, is it? Guess we have freedom after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
You say "show me the law that...." still pretending that we were talking only about the law. You are trying to make a strawman to attack. We weren't talking about the law. We were talking about actual reality. You find that hard to argue with, so you must pretend that it's about laws only.
Talking about the law isn't a strawman. It's drawing a lie between actual law and societal law. Break an actual law, go to prison. Break a social law, and people may not like you. See the difference? Hating jews isn't against the law. It's unpopular. you want the freedom to say you hate jews? You got it. You want that freedom, but also free of consequences? Where on earth is that possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
But you want examples of laws? Fine. How about the "civil rights" laws that ban us from owning a shop, diner, hotel, etc for Whites only? Whites must not be allowed to associate only with Whites.
It's a bad law. Everyone should be free to associate/disassociate with anyone they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
More laws: you are banned from telling the truth about race, about Jews, in Sweden, in Norway, in Denmark, in Germany, in France, and so on and so on. The United States is the ONLY COUNTRY where the right to free speech still exists, a blessing given by the White Founders to their people.
Well there you go. United States is the ONLY COUNTRY where the right to free speech still exists. I rest my case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
And even there, it only exists in theory, hardly ever in practice. "Hate" speech is illegal, which confirms that it doesn't even really exist in theory anymore, only officially.
Hate speech isn't "I hate all jews". It's "Kill all jews because they are jews". Where in the world is freedom of speech defined as "anything goes, including incitement to murder?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Haerne
Your only answer to it was that "You wouldn't allow free speech either!" So you have basically retracted your attempt at claiming there is free speech. Now you just have to stop being a hypocrite about it.
Well, you wouldn't, would you? That really is the point. You don't want freedom, you want your kind of freedom. Your "freedom" is simply allowing what you want, and not allowing what you don't. That's not freedom. It's just as unfree as you decry America to be!

In your perfect society, would a black man be "free" to date a white woman? Would a black man even be free to exist? No? Then you don't want freedom.

But let's define the term so we both understand. What do you envision "freedom" to mean? Tell me what your "free" society would look like.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #18
Antiochus Epiphanes
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freedom in nationalist political usage going all the way back to the pelopenesian war has always meant freedom from something, usually alien political control. Thus the Pelopensian League fought for freedom for Greeks from Persian conquest. Not freedom for women or helots or Egyptians or heberews, but freedom for Greeks from alien control.

Thus a Swede wants Sweden run by Swedes and not Jews and their appointed Quislings.

Thus a White American wants America run by Whites and not blacks or Jews or their quislings in turn, because they are aliens regardless of their nominal citizenship or not.

Freedom thus means national-ethnic sovereignity, or "self determination" to use a phrase more au courant.
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #19
Karl Ramstrom...
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Quote:
Alex Linder said: "Point out that it is illegal to place an ad to rent your house to Whites."
That's true. Strangely, it's still legal to post on any dating site that you "seek a white man" or "a white woman". Think about it. Isn't that the hardest, coldest, most forceful expression of overt racism that's still legal and still SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE? Really, how much more racist can you get? You are clearly stating to every reader of such a dating advertisement that you refuse to date anybody but a white man or a white woman. Yet it's legal! And it's also the most blatant evidence left that most whites DEMAND another white for their lover and their mate.

As for freedom itself, we Americans are only semi-free. Not slaves, and yet not completely free. Semi-free. Or, just call it "free light", to go along with your Bud Light. Just enough freedom to prevent a revolt, and yet not so much that you're going to advertise your house rental to "whites only". That's the ticket, boys and girls - semi-freedom! To go along with the growing crowds of semi-whites!

It's positively loverly!
 
Old June 3rd, 2004 #20
bluedog39
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Default A contemporary example of the conflict between peoples

Who Is Jose Angel Gutierrez—And What Does He Want?
Jose Angel Gutierrez, [email him] political science professor and former head of the Mexican-American Studies Center at the University of Texas, Arlington, is a busy man.

Gutierrez was recently in Mexico City at the invitation of the Mexican government to participate in the binational Reconquista jamboree reported in my last column.

The very next day (April 30th, 2004), he was in Kansas City speaking at something called the “Latino Civil Rights Summit.”

There he boasted that:

“We are the future of America. Unlike any prior generation, we now have the critical mass. We’re going to Latinize this country.”

In a puff piece on the conference, Lewis W. Diuguid of the Kansas City Star reported that

“Gutierrez said people from Mexico, Central and South America are not immigrating to the United States. They are simply migrating because this land had been theirs…Hispanics should never put up with others telling them to go back where they came from” [Hispanics will help build future of U.S., April 18th, 2004] [email Diuguid]

That argument, based on absurd historical claims, completely invalidates the existence of the U.S.A.

Gutierrez also discussed Hispanic demographics. He told the audience that half of the Hispanic population is under the age of 21—and that for every Latino who dies, 5 white people die!

Gutierrez has been saying this sort of thing for some time. Speaking in California in 1995, he said:

"The border remains a military zone. We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historically has been ours for forty thousand years. And we're a new Mestizo nation. And they want us to discuss civil rights. Civil rights. What law made by white men to oppress all of us of color, female and male. This is our homeland. We cannot—we will not—and we must not be made illegal in our own homeland. We are not immigrants that came from another country to another country. We are migrants, free to travel the length and breadth of the Americas because we belong here. We are millions. We just have to survive. We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. It's a matter of time. The explosion is in our population."[listen here]

The same themes as Kansas City—a claim to U.S. territory, denial that the U.S. as a legitimate nation-state, exultation over Hispanic demographic growth.

If a white English-speaking American expresses displeasure over the prediction that his ethnic group (if present trends continue) is destined to lose its majority status, he will be called a “racist”.

But Hispanic activists publicly gloat over the increase of their ethnic group. Why isn’t that racist?

Who is Jose Angel Gutierrez ? He’s technically an American citizen, born in Crystal City, Texas in 1944—an example of the great National Question truth that, just because the cat has kittens in the oven, that doesn’t make them biscuits.

He is activist and lawyer, has served as county judge in Texas, and is an author who has penned such classics as A Chicano Manual On How To Handle Gringos. Since his youth, he has been active in the Chicano movement, and was one of the founders of MAYO, the Mexican American Youth Organization.

Texas Democratic Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez made some interesting comments about MAYO, entered in the Congressional Record, April 3rd, 1969:

"MAYO styles itself the embodiment of good and the Anglo-American as the incarnation of evil. That is not merely ridiculous, it is drawing fire from the deepest wellsprings of hate. The San Antonio leader of MAYO, Jose Angel Gutierrez, may think himself something of a hero, but he is, in fact, only a benighted soul if he believes that in the espousal of hatred he will find love. He is simply deluded if he believes that the wearing of fatigues . . . makes his followers revolutionaries . . . One cannot fan the flames of bigotry one moment and expect them to disappear the next.” (Nativist and Racist Movements in the U.S. and their Aftermath, Yale-New Haven Teachers Institute, Henry A. Rhodes)

Back then, Gutierrez said

"We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."

More recently, Gutierrez told The San Antonio Express and News (April 11th, 1969) that the term “Gringo” referred to a bigoted and racist individual or institution. And “kill” just meant the elimination of the political, economic and social foundation of “the Gringo”.

Oh, well—that’s OK then!

Bottom line - Gutierrez wants gringos out of Texas.

Here are excerpts from an interview in 2000:

Q: “If the main goal (of the old Chicano movement) then was to reclaim Aztlan and control all the institutions of civil society, what is the main goal now?”

GUTIERREZ’ answer: “I think it is still the same thing. You hear the Hispanic Republicans talk about the same thing. … this idea has even been co-opted by the Republicans. ….The Hispanic Democrats and Mexican-American Democrats and Tejano Democrats, synonymous in Texas, they are doing the same thing….. ”

Q: “How are Mexican immigrants of today different from Mexican immigrants of decades ago?”

GUTIERREZ:” They are different in one salient aspect…they are keeping their Mexicanness. ..The Mexicanos that are coming today, even though they are political refugees and migrants returning to their homeland, are keeping their Mexicanness ... They are recreating Mexico here. I think they are doing it because of the sheer numbers. …”

(Fort Worth Star Telegram, October 18th, 2000)

Quite so. Isn’t that just what we’ve been saying here at VDARE.com? The interview continues:

Q: What is irredentism [ethnic nationalism], and what evidence do you see that it is happening?

Gutierrez:” The evidence is their display of their Mexicanness. …These folks now are engaged in active political activity in the U.S. which is unprecedented. They are truly binational citizens. It's not uncommon to see undocumented Mexicans protesting in front of INS in downtown Dallas. ….They have also now gotten dual citizenship. … [The] Chicano generation…only wanted to carve out half of [19th-century Mexico]…. These folks want it all. They want to recreate all of Mexico and join all of Mexico into one. And they are going to do that, even if it's just demographically… They are going to have political sovereignty over the Southwest and many parts of the Midwest. ”

Jose Angel Gutierrez is not a madman. Gutierrez is a man who has dedicated his life to a cause.

And he now senses triumph is at hand.

He’s been doing this in George W. Bush’s Texas, at a university for which Bush had ultimate responsibility. (UT is a state university, its Board of Regents is appointed by the Governor).

We ask, not for the first time: What is Bush thinking?
 
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