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Old February 8th, 2014 #1
Alex Linder
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Default #1 Anonymity Debate Thread

[comments off a deadspin story about the Russian Olympic flame-lighter, who apparently tween an Obamas-banana graphic



tmtmtmtmttUMWarnerM61L
If you ever want to waste hours of your life being horrified by people, check out Neo-Nazi twitter. Yesterday 2:36pm


EnduroDougUMWarnerM471L
I used to think blatant racism and threatening behavior would go away when sites started forcing people to use their real Twitter/Facebook accounts as part of the commenting procedure. Boy was that naive of me.

Gotta give them credit for owning that shit though. Yesterday 2:43pm


MWarnerMUtmtmtmtmtt21L
It is hysterical to me that Neo-Nazis would use Twitter as a venue to spread their views, considering the company is based in the liberal/gay mecca of San Francisco and employs countless gay and/or non-white people to keep it running. Yesterday 2:49pm


Winchester
"It's not my fault monkeys like bananas... that's their hangup, not mine!"

MWarnerMUEnduroDoug31L
Last summer ESPN started making uses log-in with their Facebook accounts to post comments. They thought this would cut down on racist/sexist trolling. If anything it's gotten worse. Yesterday 2:51pm

http://deadspin.com/its-amazing-how-...-fa-1518391020

CatFiveHimmicaneUbeenwiser1L U
Blacks are more like monkeys than whites are. There's nothing wrong with using that fact to lampoon them. If it makes you cry, that's an additional benefit price I'm willing to pay. Just now

CatFiveHimmicaneUTom Ley1L U
Let's just try to cancel an entire world of factual reality with one simple term, racism, and then get angry when the world doesn't comply with our verbal-intellectual terrorism. Just now

GhetroUTom Ley2481L U
This'll deal a devastating blow to Russia's reputiation as a bastion of diversity, tolerance, and civility. Yesterday 2:41pm


CatFiveHimmicaneUGhetro1L U
I know...maybe one day they can reach our august civilizational level and host a Folsomskaya Street Fair. Just now


rusholmeruffianUTom Ley1L U
I remember P.J. O'Rourke (yeah, yeah, I know) did a Trans-Siberian Railway travelogue for Rolling Stone back in '96. (Sheryl Crow was on the cover, IIRC.) The cabbie taking him from the St. Petersburg airport to the train station said, "You'll like it here in Russia—we don't have any niggers." Yesterday 3:00pm


chicrackUTom Ley11L U
this makes no sense to me. According to the internet, only white males from Boston are racist. Yesterday 3:46pm


CatFiveHimmicaneUchicrack1L U
nah...it's pretty much anyone who's encountered a black. Just now

theoctagonUTom Ley11L U
What never fails to amuse me is the fact that people can not differentiate "freedom of speech" from "freedom from ridicule." Yesterday 9:08pm


CatFiveHimmicaneUtheoctagon1L U
but it's not their side trying to pass laws to make tweets like that illegal - it's yours. Just now

DrClaw77UTom Ley1L U
Ah yes, just like many white supremacists hiding behind the curtain of "conservatism", she hides behind the "freedom of speech" and "liberal conspiracy" excuse.

The funny thing is, even if this is "racism lite", she knows exactly what this is. The difference between Russians and 'Murricans of this type. is that they haven't been trained to be scared of the "racist" tag. Today 8:47am

Last edited by Alex Linder; February 8th, 2014 at 07:01 PM.
 
Old February 8th, 2014 #2
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A very funny photo. Barrack looks seriously hungry staring at that banana, and Michelle, without make-up and showing her wigless nappy head, looks exactly like the typical Hottentot or bush nigga ho seen dancing naked in African TV documentaries.
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Old February 8th, 2014 #3
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The East is the best.
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Old February 9th, 2014 #4
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The funny thing is, even if this is "racism lite", she knows exactly what this is. The difference between Russians and 'Murricans of this type. is that they haven't been trained to be scared of the "racist" tag
LOLing at the kikes and their supporters who thought they could censor us by making us use our real names. Don't they know what happens when you plug the vent on a pressure cooker?
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #5
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Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
A very funny photo. Barrack looks seriously hungry staring at that banana, and Michelle, without make-up and showing her wigless nappy head, looks exactly like the typical Hottentot or bush nigga ho seen dancing naked in African TV documentaries.
No good white man sees that nigger as anything else except as an illegitimate figurehead that should be deposed. Massive third world immigration and traitors in the federal government gave us that nigger president and first wookie.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #6
Alex Linder
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The point of this thread is if you force people to operate under their own names, more of them will. The leftists called people's bluff, and more racists were for-real than they thought. That's what some of these lefties are saying, which is why I posted this. I've thought about the same thing for VNN, many times, but never done it. It would certainly clear up the clownage. But if we ever do, and we might, I will grandfather it. Since morons aren't familiar with that term, GRANDFATHERING means that those who signed up under DIFFERENT RULES will not have to comply with the NEW ONES. That means you can keep your fake name, even if we institute a new new new policy of ONLY REAL NAMES ALLOWED TO SIGN UP.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #7
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Well, I think this have both advantages and disadvantages. Once a leftist knows your name and approximate location, he might just decide to give you a visit (not alone of course). He could also send copies of your posts to your boss who might be pressured to fire you. This might prevent people from coming and posting usefull stuff. Advantages might be to show that we are not afraid of what we defend and that we would think twice before posting something.

How would you verify users' identity?
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #8
Alex Linder
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Well, I think this have both advantages and disadvantages. Once a leftist knows your name and approximate location, he might just decide to give you a visit (not alone of course). He could also send copies of your posts to your boss who might be pressured to fire you. This might prevent people from coming and posting usefull stuff. Advantages might be to show that we are not afraid of what we defend and that we would think twice before posting something.

How would you verify users' identity?
I wouldn't, for the most part. Only if some reason arose. I would take them at their word, mostly, that they weren't lying. If some need arose, documentation could be demanded.

The point and problem is: too many people refuse to control their behavior. They should act doubly carefully and honorably if they're anonymous, but they don't. They use it as a shield to make attacks they wouldn't attempt under their real name. Now, we have enough history, we pretty much know who's who. We've weeded out the troublemakers, and we recognize them, generally, when they reappear. If we don't, then they're following the rules, so we get what we're trying to achieve in the first place. And if they ever start stuff up, they're gone.

To build a serious movement, you need serious people. Acting seriously. That means taking responsibility for what they post. But yet we've seen in the last year, to give you a good example, one of our more intelligent posters, a Southern lawyer, run away from his own intelligent, funny, helpful, cause-advancing words, after being attacked by the SPLC. And then he asks us to delete his account from VNN, altho his actual outing was self-induced, years ago, on a different site. This deletion would turn out to involve hundreds or thousands of threads, if I had made it.

When we run from our own words, we incur the double negative of reinforcing in both our minds and in our opponents' minds that we are a joke, our cause is a joke, and everything they say about us being gutless defamers is true.

I can't make Southerners understand the significance of this, any more than I could teach a pig to sing, but it's very real. They understand affronts to their personal honor, and are quick to throw fists -- see Dallas Buyers Club, for a dramatic depiction of genuine Southern mentality -- but the need for intellectual honor - consistency - is lost on them.

This poster wrote hundreds of great posts. Now, I just go "bwink" and it all disappears? It's that's light? I should just go, oh well, fuck my words over the door (about standing behind your posts and VNN NOT deleting accounts). I should just merrily change the past and giggle? And mess up all kinds of threads, distorting people's memories and VNN history?

How can I do that and take myself, my forum, and my cause seriously?

I can't.

How can we expect anyone to take our cause seriously when we don't take it seriously?

Behavior matters more than words. If we don't act in such a way as to back up and underline our words, then people will think we don't mean it. And they'll be right.

In politics as in personal life, we get treated by others the way we allow ourselves to be treated. How we feel about ourselves and our cause is reflected in the treatment we tolerate from outsiders.

Well, know this: we are serious. We won't tolerate aggression from leftists. We will stand behind our words.

Making new people sign up under their real names increases the average seriousness of our posters and our posts. That's a good thing. On the downside, fewer would sign up. But is that even a bad thing? That's where I've been internally divided for years, resulting in...leaving things as they are. It may well be that people who aren't willing to post under their real names ought to just stick to reading this forum, which is what MOST of our visitors do, after all.

Anyway, these are the kind of considerations we deal with, at VNN. We do want the forum to grow, but in such a way that we keep our character, our tone and the clarity of our mission and purpose.

Last edited by Alex Linder; February 9th, 2014 at 04:56 PM.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #9
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We actually debated this very issue some months ago: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=160464
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #10
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A big problem that anonymous posters don't understand is just because you are using tor or another proxy does not mean you can't get caught with your real name. It is no guarantee these proxies are safe and completely anonymous.

Other than that I wonder how many users in this forums and other forums alike would say the things they post here to people in their daily lives. When I read posts of people saying "nigger" and things like blacks are inferior, would they say this in their real lives? Anyways what happened in twitter is proof that a growing number of people are getting sick on these minority group imposing their beliefs on others.

I don't recommend anyone to use their real names especially if you are resided in some parts of Europe and Canada. But if you do be prepared to stand on what you say. I rather stand on my word than apologize. Nobody tells me how to think or what I say is wrong or right.

When it comes to employers, most of them really don't give a rats behind what you do in your personal time. Some employers even get offended when a low brow liberal tells them who to employ and such.

This is what an employer told the guy who gave him some posts that an employee made, "Mind your own goddamn business".

I bet he didn't see that coming.

Last edited by Gloriana jacinto; February 9th, 2014 at 05:40 PM.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #11
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So do you want to take years to develop good job skills, meaningful work experience, a strong professional reputation and build a bright future?

Or do you want to throw it all away and post using your real name on VNN?

Seems kind of like a no brainer there.

Also, when I observe the quality of on-line posting (or lack thereof), the absolute last thing that enters my mind is if the person is using his real name. I don't care if a person uses "John Smith" or "Thors_Mighty_Hammer88." It's substance of what's being discussed and the quality of the arguments above all.
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Old February 9th, 2014 #12
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Chris View Post
We actually debated this very issue some months ago: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=160464
Yeah I know...I may fold that in. It's a perennial thing, partly cuz it's one thing that sticks in my mind - I've always had the more-than-nagging feeling that having people using their real name when they signed up was the pioneer's decision, and VNN has always been intended to be what it's name suggests: the vanguard. NOT simply conservatives with a racial veneer. So we probably will go that way one day, but I will grandfather in everyone who is already here. And probably will have a six-month warning period. For example, I could announce on July 1, 2014, that as of January 1, 2015 (nice round number) VNN goes to real-names only FOR NEW MEMBERS. I could do that.

But, no particular thing pushed this up today, I just happened to come across these comments as I was reading, and I thought it pertinent and useful because you SEE that these new RNO (real name only) policies at Facebook and Youtube etc may actually be working to strengthen our cause by showing just how many agree with it, and how many are willing to make 'racist' points in public under their real names. At least, more than one leftist sees it that way. That's significant.

The courageous thing is usually the harder thing is usually the right thing.

But, again, to be clear, there's no particular behavior here at VNNF at the moment that bothers me and triggered this, we're getting along pretty well, having discharged paranoids and troublemakers. We can concentrate on extracting the evergreen from the evanescent, as I think of it.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #13
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by H.B. View Post
So do you want to take years to develop good job skills, meaningful work experience, a strong professional reputation and build a bright future?

Or do you want to throw it all away and post using your real name on VNN?
Or do want to help the enemy by naming yourself a "Hate Beast"?

Help identify our cause with hate. Agree with our enemy that that's what we are, haters. And cowards.

You could post here under your real name and not post anything that you wouldn't say to your boss or neighbor. If you would still be fired for guilt by association, then we're in a pretty bad state, I guess.

VNNF is specifically set up to be a neutral forum, where anyone can post. And in fact we do have non-WN and non-whites posting.

Quote:
Also, when I observe the quality of on-line posting (or lack thereof), the absolute last thing that enters my mind is if the person is using his real name. I don't care if a person uses "John Smith" or "Thors_Mighty_Hammer88." It's substance of what's being discussed and the quality of the arguments above all.
You're not seriously contending that someone using a name like "Thor's Mighty Hammer 88" isn't likelier to be a clown than someone posting as John Smith?

Well, if you are, you're flat wrong.

The dumber the man, the greater the appeal of the power eagle mentality and all the illiteracy and bravado that tend to go with it.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #14
Gloriana jacinto
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Originally Posted by H.B. View Post
So do you want to take years to develop good job skills, meaningful work experience, a strong professional reputation and build a bright future?

Or do you want to throw it all away and post using your real name on VNN?

Seems kind of like a no brainer there.
I think is more of the content in your post which is important. Posting on any forum will not throw anything away. You will just have to work hard enough to make yourself very needed in the work place. All of what you posted above comes independently from what you post on the forums.

I think if more people stood up for what they believed in and weren't afraid of the consequences of what they posted they would be taken more seriously.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #15
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Originally Posted by Gloriana jacinto View Post
I think is more of the content in your post which is important. Posting on any forum will not throw anything away. You will just have to work hard enough to make yourself very needed in the work place. All of what you posted above comes independently from what you post on the forums.

I think if more people stood up for what they believed in and weren't afraid of the consequences of what they posted they would be taken more seriously.
Yes. And we need leaders and organizations. But the enemy knock those down. If you put yourself and your career ahead of the cause, as most do, then of course it can be dangerous to post under your real name. But you're not who we're looking for here. We're looking for leaders, heroes and idealists - NOT average men. Now, at the same time, average people, careerists, conservatives, even antis, are free to post here, because it doesn't hurt our mission, it helps it - more people, of any shade, equals more and better knowledge and discussion. Better analysis = better forum. But yes, to the extent VNN relates to real-world politics, we're in the business of finding or creating winter patriots, not summer patriots. Those are there and always there, and will be drawn on when needed. Right now we don't have a 'head,' and so creating that head is what must be done - by WN generally, not just a VNN thing.

Bottom line: just follow the few, simple rules we have, and no one will have a problem with you posting here, whether you call yourself a WN, conservative, liberal or anti.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #16
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This may be a subtle thing, but just consider: yeah, the System can destroy people are open racists. But on the other hand, our cause can't succeed without moral courage.

Too many of the fans of anonymity underrate that second point. And when I see them talking about how quickly you're going to be fired, they just seem like cowards encouraging cowardice. That's not the reason VNN exists (1), and (2) those fears can be exaggerated. If you're at some low-level job, I don't really think you're going to get fired for your racial views, unless you become a public personage through media actions and interviews. Simply posting on a forum is not going to do it. And like I say, if you're so scared, then simply don't post something you wouldn't say to your boss or neighbor. Very simple solution. The way it has always worked in white society is that you are responsible only for what YOU say. Not where you say it, or what someone else says. Yes, jews have tried to replace with guilt by association, but it's still pretty strong in most white men's minds.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #17
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Or do want to help the enemy by naming yourself a "Hate Beast"?
It's about embracing a smear and mocking it. If dissent from political orthodoxy is smeared as "hate", then what about cranking that dissent up to a whole new level?
Quote:
You could post here under your real name and not post anything that you wouldn't say to your boss or neighbor. If you would still be fired for guilt by association, then we're in a pretty bad state, I guess.
That's how the world works today - people get fired, blacklisted and have their futures either tarnished or ruined for far more tame heresies than what appear on VNN.

You can post using your real name, say something that influences or inspires no one and completely destroy your future.

Conversely, you can work behind the scenes to totally change the political dialog in this country by trolling the comment sections of major news pages and never give a hint of your identity.

Which is by far the better option?
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Old February 9th, 2014 #18
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Wall Street Journal forum has the real-names-only rule, and it's a virtual ghost town. People come into discussion forums to relax with free speech, or relative free speech, not to endanger their jobs. All you really need though is a common name. If Jews manage to change the net anonymity freedom I'll just change my legal name to Crowley, which was one of my grandparent's names anyway. Okay, so you have this guy named Crowley violating politically correct guidelines. Which Crowley is it? LOL.

On the general subject. People know that home addresses can be linked fairly easily with a real name, provided the real name is not common as Crowley, or Jones, or a host of others. If you happen to live in the leftist metro centers on the West Coast, for instance, you could find yourself on a target list pretty easily, and you have these little shithead thugs coming around breaking your windows and other nasty occurrences. In case you didn't know, we are not in control of either the streets or the lowlife thugs. That's the left that has that. It is too much trouble. When I see that White people generally care about their future existence maybe I will be more willing to risk body and limb. As it is, I'll keep my anonymity.

I'm not going to prison either over these lazy tv watchers. I would die for a proud people, but for these has beens, no goddamn way.

Last edited by Bardamu; February 9th, 2014 at 07:36 PM.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #19
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by H.B. View Post
It's about embracing a smear and mocking it. If dissent from political orthodoxy is smeared as "hate", then what about cranking that dissent up to a whole new level?

That's how the world works today - people get fired, blacklisted and have their futures either tarnished or ruined for far more tame heresies than what appear on VNN.

You can post using your real name, say something that influences or inspires no one and completely destroy your future.

Conversely, you can work behind the scenes to totally change the political dialog in this country by trolling the comment sections of major news pages and never give a hint of your identity.

Which is by far the better option?
Are those really the two main alternatives? Maybe. Maybe not.

In my opinion, one comment under a real name, pushing our cause, is worth at least a dozen comments from obvious troll names like 'hate beast.'

You say you're 'mocking' the term, but I think you're cementing the association between our views and the moral/mental disorder the left seeks to link to them.
 
Old February 9th, 2014 #20
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Originally Posted by Bardamu View Post
Wall Street Journal forum has the real-names-only rule, and it's a virtual ghost town. People come into discussion forums to relax with free speech, or relative free speech, not to endanger their jobs.
Yes - it's entertainment. They feel no responsibility to control what they say, it's just someone else's problem. As long as they're amused, that's goal #1.

Quote:
All you really need though is a common name. If Jews manage to change the net anonymity freedom I'll just change my legal name to Crowley, which was one of my grandparent's names anyway. Okay, so you have this guy named Crowley violating politically correct guidelines. Which Crowley is it? LOL.
You didn't read what I said, like 90% of VNNers. I said I would grandfather existing posters. I don't like to change the rules on people who signed up under different ones. That's not fair. Sometimes it might be necessary, but not often (I can't think of an example, even). It would be GOING FORWARD, the requirement for NEW REGISTRANTS TO USE THEIR REAL NAME.

Yes, we could predict it would reduce the number of registrants but enhance the overall seriousness of posts. But it's also a good example of the conservative principle of unintended consequences. IF we adopted such a rule, it would most likely ramify in a way we wouldn't expect. Most unexpected consequences are bad, not good. Since things are going ok here, there doesn't seem to be any overwhelming need for new sign-up rules. But anything that will enhance the quality of the avearage poster and post is something worth considering, so it's something I think about from time to time.

Quote:
On the general subject. People know that home addresses can be linked fairly easily with a real name, provided the real name is not common as Crowley, or Jones, or a host of others. If you happen to live in the leftist metro centers on the West Coast, for instance, you could find yourself on a target list pretty easily, and you have these little shithead thugs coming around breaking your windows and other nasty occurrences. In case you didn't know, we are not in control of either the streets or the lowlife thugs. That's the left that has that. It is too much trouble. When I see that White people generally care about their future existence maybe I will be more willing to risk body and limb. As it is, I'll keep my anonymity.
Maybe in Europe. In the US, they don't care about 90% who are simply posting on a forum, they care about people who are overt leaders, or at least notable loudmouths.
 
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