Scientists urge Pluto be reinstated as planet

[alex revision]

Scientists urge Pluto be reinstated as planet

Dec 13, 2021

The current definition of a “planet” is rooted in folklore and astrology, and must be dropped due to not meeting the needs of modern astronomy, a new study states, opening the doors for the Pluto comeback.

Pluto was discovered in the ring of bodies beyond the orbit of Neptune, known as the Kuiper belt, back in 1930, being declared the ninth planet in the Solar System.

However, its status was questioned after several other objects of the same size were found in the Kuiper belt, with the International Astronomical Union (IAU) eventually downgrading Pluto to “dwarf planet” in 2006.

https://www.rt.com/news/543043-pluto...ition-galileo/

[Ray Allan]

They could go back to Pluto being the ninth planet, Sedna tenth, Eris, eleventh (in whichever order these other Pluto-sized bodies in the Kuiper Belt were discovered), and so on. If Pluto were reinstated as a full-size planet, the IAU would have to re-define the size of a dwarf planet since there are many of those objects in the outer Solar System beyond Pluto.

[Ole Massa]

True. The old 9 planet system we all grew up with is no longer valid. We have many more now.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Neptunian_object

[Tony Boone]

I have a feeling that Pluto doesn’t care what man thinks of it.

[alex revision]

Planetary Scientists Solve Mystery behind Mysterious Polygonal Structures on Pluto

Dec 15, 2021

University of Exeter’s Dr. Adrien Morison and colleagues have shown how vast ice forms have been shaped in Sputnik Planitia, a nitrogen-ice-filled basin on the dwarf planet Pluto.

http://www.sci-news.com/space/polygo...uto-10372.html

[Hugo Böse]

When you see how small Pluto is it makes sense that they demoted it from planet status.

[Nikola Bijeliti]

Originally Posted by Hugo Böse

When you see how small Pluto is it makes sense that they demoted it from planet status.

This is how small the earth is compared to Jupiter:

Does that mean that the earth is not a planet? The ancients never considered the earth to be a planet.

[NeverASayanim]

I read a "fact for kids" reading material that stated 356 Earths could fit into Jupiter. So who is right?

[Ray Allan]

Originally Posted by Nikola Bijeliti

This is how small the earth is compared to Jupiter:

Does that mean that the earth is not a planet? The ancients never considered the earth to be a planet.

Interesting composite photo--it is entirely possible for a Jupiter-size gas giant in another solar system to have an Earth-like moon if it is orbiting within the host star's habitable zone. A science fiction example would be in Star Wars where the Rebel base was on the oxygen-atmosphere moon Yavin shown orbiting a gas giant. The closest example of this in our solar system is Saturn's moon Titan which has a thick nitrogen atmosphere, but is in a deep-freeze given its location a billion miles from the Sun, far from the habitable zone.

[Hugo Böse]

Originally Posted by Ray Allan

Interesting composite photo--it is entirely possible for a Jupiter-size gas giant in another solar system to have an Earth-like moon if it is orbiting within the host star's habitable zone. A science fiction example would be in Star Wars where the Rebel base was on the oxygen-atmosphere moon Yavin shown orbiting a gas giant. The closest example of this in our solar system is Saturn's moon Titan which has a thick nitrogen atmosphere, but is in a deep-freeze given its location a billion miles from the Sun, far from the habitable zone.

Astronomers may have found a huge moon around a Jupiter-like exoplanet

....If the exomoon is real, it is about 2.6 times the size of Earth...

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ike-exoplanet/

[Dawn Cannon]

Originally Posted by Nikola Bijeliti

This is how small the earth is compared to Jupiter:

Does that mean that the earth is not a planet? The ancients never considered the earth to be a planet.

This is how small jupiter is compared to Sol:



Does that mean that jupiter is not a gas giant?

[Dawn Cannon]

Those rings of dust may have prevented Earth from growing into a "super-Earth."



According to the simulations, the nearest ring to the sun formed the planets of the inner solar system — Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. The middle ring would ultimately become the planets of the outer solar system, while the outermost ring formed the comets, asteroids and other small bodies in the Kuiper Belt, the region beyond the orbit of Neptune.

https://www.livescience.com/baby-sun...gs-like-saturn

[Dawn Cannon]

The age that man later called the Age of Kronos (Saturn) was remembered with nostalgia as an age of bliss. References to the Age of Kronos in the ancient lore are very numerous.

Hesiod tells of

" A golden race of mortal men who lived in the time of Kronos when he was reigning in heaven. And they lived like gods without sorrow of heart, remote and free from toil: miserable age rested not on them . . . The fruitful earth unforced bare them fruit abundantly and without stint. They dwelt in ease and peace upon their lands with many good things. . . ."

Was Saturn the Sun in ancient times? Or seen in our ancient skies as a Sun like object?



The Saturn Theory and the Thunderbolts Electric Universe theory suggest that Saturn may have been our first Sun or was at least associated as a Sun.

In many ancient records, Saturn was referred to as the sun. For example, the ancient Babylonian texts describe Saturn as the “ghost of the sun.” Maya believed that the sun that we see today was different in former times.

The Saturn Myth (1980) is a book by David Talbott, which proposes that ancient myths and tradition describe the planet Saturn as the the dominant celestial body in the sky, appearing “fixed at the north celestial pole”. A number of other writers, sometimes called Saturnists, have described similar scenarios, which have collectively been described as “The Saturn Theory” (or Saturn Model, or Saturn Thesis).

The book examines similar tales in comparative mythology and states that thousands of years ago, earth was a former satellite of Saturn, and that a vastly different solar system alignment existed. This proto-Saturn, devoid of its current rings, was much closer to the sun.
According to the author, a major cataclysm disfigured the previous planetary configuration and unleashed major chaos on a formerly advanced human civilization.
This astronomical catastrophe ended a previous Golden Age in which humans, previously living in an advanced civilization, witnessed drastic changes in their sky.
Survivors of this cataclysm later retold this story to their descendants in the form of religious archetypes, which represents planetary bodies. book examines similar tales in comparative mythology and states that thousands of years ago, earth was a former satellite of Saturn, and that a vastly different solar system alignment existed. This proto-Saturn, devoid of its current rings, was much closer to the sun.
According to the author, a major cataclysm disfigured the previous planetary configuration and unleashed major chaos on a formerly advanced human civilization.
This astronomical catastrophe ended a previous Golden Age in which humans, previously living in an advanced civilization, witnessed drastic changes in their sky.
Survivors of this cataclysm then later retold this story to their descendants

In the book “Saturn, the ancient god of the sun,” author David Talbott notes an obvious mishmash between Saturn and the Sun in ancient times and that this mishmash could not be a coincidence. Talbott argues that different figures throughout history deliberately “distinguished Saturn from our Sun, calling it the best sun, the original sun, the central sun.”


In his book, Talbott contends that:

“.. the evidence assembled in the following pages indicates that within human memory extraordinary changes in the planetary system occurred: in the earliest age recalled by man the planet Saturn was the most spectacular light in the heavens and its impact on the ancient world overwhelming. In fact Saturn was the one “great god” invoked by all mankind. The first religious symbols were symbols of Saturn..."

http://rudrasenafoundation.blogspot....ent-times.html

[Gladiatrix]

This thread needs some music.

Gustav Holst- The Planets, Full Suite

Gustav Holst- The Planets, Full Suite

[Ray Allan]

It's more likely Jupiter, with its larger mass, could have been the companion star to the sun if it were slightly larger, than Saturn. Not likely Saturn was the first star, all evidence points to the Sun forming first with the planets forming after from the protoplanetary disk which surrounded the Sun early in the history of the Solar System. It's possible some of the planets occupied different orbital positions and distances early on and migrated out to their present positions. And Jupiter being the largest planet could have influenced the other planets' orbits by its own massive gravity.

Again, using a sci-fi example, in Arthur C. Clarke's novel 2010, the sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey, and movie of the same name the mysterious alien intelligence that created the Monolith, altered Jupiter's internal heat and turned the planet into a new star. Just attempt no landing on its moon Europa, though.

2010 Odyssey - Jupiter Ignition (Final scene)

2010 Odyssey - Jupiter Ignition (Final scene)

What If Jupiter Became a Star?

What If Jupiter Became a Star?

[bedford]

Is anyone here a fan of sci fi writer Larry Niven?
The first novel of his I read is A World Out of Time. It is very good. It is about a criminal who escapes from the earth on a space ship and enters a time warp. He comes back far in the future and then the earth is orbiting around Jupiter. I am not really clear how that happens.
I have heard astronomers saying that the reason the earth has been spared impacts from deadly asteroids and other debris is because Jupiter catches all these objects with its' strong gravity.

[Ray Allan]

The only one of Larry Niven's works I've read is Footfall, co-authored by Jerry Pournelle. I should at least read Ringworld sometime. A World Out of Time does sound interesting.

[bedford]

Originally Posted by Ray Allan

The only one of Larry Niven's works I've read is Footfall, co-authored by Jerry Pournelle. I should at least read Ringworld sometime. A World Out of Time does sound interesting.

The 3 novels you mention are the only 3 Niven books that I have read. Some readers think Footfall is not that good. But he has written a number of very good novels.
I consider Niven to be one of the best contemporary sci fi authors. Ringworld is definitely worth reading. If I remember correctly it features the Tzin an alien species that is aggressive and warlike. They are kind of like the Klingons from Star Trek. They appear in several of Niven's novels. He has co authored other books with Jerry Pournelle. Niven is very good with technical details. I think he has a math degree.

[Hugo Böse]

Originally Posted by Ray Allan

The only one of Larry Niven's works I've read is Footfall, co-authored by Jerry Pournelle. I should at least read Ringworld sometime. A World Out of Time does sound interesting.

I´ve read Destiny´s Road, at the time I found the book so poor that I was never interested in what else the author wrote, in fact I was surprised when I found out years later that he was rather famous.

[bedford]

I don't know much about Destiny's Road. Ringworld won the Hugo and Nebula Awards. I may read The Mote in God's Eye next. Jerry Pournelle was an interesting man.
I read his wikipedia bio. He contributed to Reagan's SDI proposal and was a computerphile who was one of the first bloggers.