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June 7th, 2008 | #21 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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If so, then why do you keep repeating the "96 million teeth" crap? As to the "single piece of tangible physical evidence" you babble about, there’s no reason compatible with the documentary, physical and eyewitness evidence of the Treblinka killings why I should physically have a single tooth in my hands or a photo of a tooth at my disposal, so I’m not "admitting" anything (apart from never having claimed that I had such a physical exhibit or photo of such a physical exhibit at my disposal, as the liar well knows). I have shown eyewitness testimony and documentary evidence mentioning teeth, which is proof enough that not all ashed teeth were crushed after the burning of the corpses but some were left intact. And as Gerdes cannot explain why the evidence I have shown should be less conclusive than a physical exhibit, or what reason there is to doubt the accuracy of that evidence, his yelling for "one single tooth" is as irrelevant as a spoilt little brat’s yelling for a lollipop. Quote:
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If this is a forum dedicated to archeology, what we should discuss here is whether and to what extent the physical findings on site corroborate or contradict what becomes apparent from the documentary and eyewitness evidence to the Treblinka killings. After all, matching physical findings with what is known from other sources about an ancient culture or a historical event is what archeologists do. What they certainly do not do is ignore all written or oral records and reconstruct an ancient culture or historical event on the basis of physical findings alone. That, as I pointed out in my previous post, would be not science but unscientific guesswork. So let’s keep it scientific, shall we, Gerdes? Science means looking at all available evidence and seeing how it fits together, not trying to derive conclusions from one set and category of evidence alone when there are also other sets and categories of evidence available. Quote:
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June 7th, 2008 | #22 | |
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RE: Roberto Muehlenkamp
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To the typical VNN reader, you're as transparent as clear glass. Please keep spewing, we need more specimens like you for illustrative examples of jewish pathological liars and smear artists. BTW: What the fuck kind of name is Roberto Muehlenkamp? Sounds like something only a kike could dream up in it's habitual lust for race-mixing fantasies. .
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June 7th, 2008 | #23 | |||
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Ah, and what you just told me means that if you didn't think I'm making your ideology's case, you would ban me, right? And I thought this was an uncensored forum ... Quote:
Anyway, thanks for showing that VNN and moderation on VNN are just what I thought them to be. This confirms Greg Gerdes' cowardice in seeking refuge here. Quote:
They speak Spanish there. What is your name, by the way? |
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June 7th, 2008 | #24 |
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Ok, time for a little update, with a couple of editions / changes on the specific subjects.
To date, this is all the "evidence" that Roberta has provided which she claims "proves" the Treblinka holohoax story: # 1 - Teeth (Between 24 and 96 million of them): "The earth is throwing out crushed bones, teeth, clothes, papers." As quoted by Vassili Grossman in this link here: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4194&forum=2 And: “Grave robbers from Wólka Okrąglik and neighboring villages pose for a photo together with militiamen who caught them red-handed. In the peasant's pockets there were golden rings and teeth of Jews… "With the grave robbers we found golden rings, crowns and porcelain teeth with gold and silver inlays." As quoted in this link here: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 Also: Q - Please tell us the EXACT number of teeth that you can prove have been located at Treblinka, along with the photos of said teeth and the names of those who claim to have found them and on what date and EXACTLY where in the Treblinka camp they were found. Roberta: A - "None of the sources I quoted contains this information, and I don’t think it is of any relevance... No, I have no photo of "just one" tooth. And you cannot explain what the hell that is supposed to matter... there’s no reason why I should physically have a single tooth in my hands or a photo of a tooth at my disposal." # 2 - Bullets & Shell casings (50,000 each) / Lazarett: Roberta (from topix post #611): "No, I can’t “show” you any specific bullet or shell casing. And you can’t explain what the hell it is supposed to matter that I can’t show you any specific bullet or shell casing, which means that you can stick your idiotic “just one” babbling you-know-where." And from VNN: "No "tangible" physical exhibits that I know of... involving such bullets and shell casings themselves. So it doesn’t matter a damn thing whether any bullets or shell casings have been found" "No "tangible" physical exhibits that I know of... it doesn’t matter a damn thing whether any physical traces of the "Lazarett" could be identified." # 3 - Corpses / cremated - crushed bones: Roberta: "photographs showing parts of what these reports describe are also available:" http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg # 4 - The gas chamber: http://www.holocaust-history.org/Tre...Figure36.shtml # 5 - The "huge mass graves - A - In the "receiving" area: Roberta: “In the south-western part of the camp, roughly corresponding to the area of the "receiving camp" ...there are four shapes of ground scarring I circled and marked as 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the September 1944 photograph. I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett:” http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg * Please notice her contradiction from what she stated in # 2 above. B - In the "death camp" area (From topix post #543): Q - Where EXACTLY is this "enormous pit" located Roberta? http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg Captioned: "One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown." Roberta: "It is exactly located in the former "death camp" sector of Treblinka extermination camp, Mr. Gerdes. That’s all criminal investigators and historians need to know." C - "Somewhere" in the camp : http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg # 6 - Photos of the camp itself, from the outside: A - During its construction: B - During its operation: C - During its destruction: Now look at this closely Roberta and let me know if I've forgotten something. And please notice #6. What do you have for that Roberta? Again, please look over the evidence carefully Roberta, and let me know if I missed anything, because this will be the foundation for the next phase of our "debate." |
June 7th, 2008 | #25 | |||||||
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RE: Roberto Muehlenkamp
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I'd perfer to just sit back and watch Greg Gerdes carve you up some more. .
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June 9th, 2008 | #26 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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a) the Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945 and b) the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 . Quote:
Of course I have no problem with your showing again and again what a liar you are. Keep digging yourself in, Gerdes. Quote:
Let’s look at the whole of what I wrote, highlighting the parts that you picked out. In post # 18: Quote:
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In post # 21: Quote:
This is called quote-mining, Gerdes, leaving out a part of a quote to give it another meaning than it actually has. It’s a form of lying. But then, Gerdes starts lying as soon as he hits the keyboard, right? Quote:
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Why are you not able to debate without lying through your teeth by quote-mining and straw-man misrepresentations of your opponent’s arguments, Gerdes? Is it because you cannot handle what your opponent actually wrote, as opposed what you would like him to have written? It would seem so. Quote:
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It would seem so. Quote:
Show me where, Gerdes. If you can’t, admit that you lied again. Quote:
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It would seem so. But OK, if you’d rather discuss the mass graves in the "reception camp" sector, there’s this question you have been often asked but never even attempted to answer: What, if not mass graves in an area where at least two eyewitnesses mentioned the presence of mass graves, could the ground-scarring shapes I pointed out possibly have been, namely what that would be compatible with your "transit camp" theory? When will you stop running away from this question, Gerdes? Quote:
«… it doesn’t matter a damn thing whether any physical traces of the "Lazarett" could be identified» "It doesn’t matter a damn thing whether it could" does not mean "it cannot", of course. Get a brain, Gerdes. Quote:
I’ll highlight the parts you left out: Quote:
What part of the word "relevance" do you not understand? Quote:
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It would seem so. I don’t know of photos from the outside of any of the phases of the camp’s operation, and I doubt you can explain why there should necessarily be any. But I know of photographs from the inside, taken in violation of instructions received by deputy commander Kurt Franz. They are among the photos shown under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html , and the link http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html shows all of Franz's excavator photos. As you are such a photo-freak, here are two questions regarding these photographs: Regarding the photo captioned «MASS GRAVE If Treblinka, the boards were added to the bodies in course of a test burning. Usually the victims were buried in mass graves, later cremated on roasts. Photo: Bundesarchiv No. 183-F0918-0201-011» the question is: what, if not a corner of one mass grave where the bodies have been covered with boards and what looks like tarpaulin sheets, do you think this photograph shows? Regarding the excavator photos under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html, the question (asked several times already and always studiously avoided by Gerdes) is the following: What would these excavators have been doing in what you claim was a "transit camp"? Answer the questions, Gerdes! Quote:
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Is this just an attempt to throw more sand into the eyes of the suckers you apparently expect your "White" buddies to be, Gerdes? Quote:
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June 9th, 2008 | #27 | ||||||||||||||
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Ah, and what is it that you call "truth"? Is it facts supported by evidence, or is it whatever unsupported nonsense you’d like to believe in? Quote:
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June 9th, 2008 | #28 |
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Roberta:
"Did I anywhere state that this photographs, which Alex Bay analyzes based on what he knows about the building from eyewitness testimonies, is proof of the gas chambers inside that building? Show me where, Gerdes. If you can’t, admit that you lied again." Roberta, that is exactly why I asked you to review what I had just written, so you could correct any mistakes that I might have made. If I give you the opportunity to correct what I've written, and make those corrections, that can hardly be called lying now can it? So, I take it you're saying you never claimed said photo is an actual photo of the gas chambers of Treblinka. OK, duly noted and I will delete it from the "evidence" file you have presented. Thank you for the correction Roberta. Roberta (concerning subsection #6): "You mean photos of the camp from the outside? There’s none that I know of, ...I don’t know of photos from the outside of any of the phases of the camp’s operation, and I doubt you can explain why there should necessarily be any." Thank you Roberta, I will include that in the next recap. |
June 9th, 2008 | #29 |
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Ok, time for a simplified recap, with a couple of editions / changes in the specific subtopics.
To date, this is all the "physical evidence" that Roberta has provided regarding Treblinka: # 1 - Teeth: Roberta has provided no physical evidence / photographic proof what-so-ever that so much as a single tooth has been found at Treblinka. # 2 - Bullets & Shell casings (at least 50,000 each): Roberta has provided no physical evidence / photographic proof what-so-ever that so much as a single bullet or shell casing has been found at Treblinka. #3 - Lazarett: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg (Roberta claims #4 is the "Lazarett.") # 4 - Corpses / bones / cremated - crushed remains: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg # 4 - The gas chamber: Roberta: "Did I anywhere state that this photograph is proof of the gas chambers inside that building?" Which is taken to mean: Roberta has provided no physical evidence / photographic proof what-so-ever that the alleged homicidal gas chambers have ever been found at Treblinka. # 5 - The "huge mass graves - A - In the "receiving" area: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg (Roberta claims that #’s 1, 2 and 3 are pits for corpses and # 4 is the "Lazarett.") B - In the "death camp" area: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg C - "Somewhere" in the camp : http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg # 6 - Photos of the camp itself, from the outside, during its construction, operation or destruction: Roberta: "I don’t know of photos from the outside of any of the phases of the camp’s operation." * * * * * Again, please look at this closely Roberta and let me know if I've forgotten anything, because this will be the foundation for the next phase of our "debate." Should there be any other sub categories Roberta? * * * * * BTW folks, can’t you just sense the pressure that Roberta is feeling? The longer this goes on and the more it’s getting boiled down to just the tangible physical evidence, the more hysterical and nonsensical her responses get. And please notice how this freaky bitch complains about “quote mining” when her entire argument is composed of cherry picked quotes from the glaringly contradictory and physically impossible “eyewitness testimony.” |
June 9th, 2008 | #30 |
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The alleged photographic documentation of the "physical evidence" for the Treblinka holohoax as presented by Roberto Muehlenkamp in her “debate” with Greg Gerdes:
# 1 - The "huge mass graves - A – Aerial photo: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg B – Ground photos: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg # 2 - Teeth: Roberta has provided no physical evidence / photographic proof what-so-ever that so much as a single tooth has been found at Treblinka. # 3 - Bullets & Shell casings: Roberta has provided no physical evidence / photographic proof what-so-ever that so much as a single bullet or shell casing has been found at Treblinka. # 4 - Corpses - bones - cremated / crushed remains - miscellaneous photos: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html # 5 - Photos of the camp itself taken from the outside: Roberta has provided no photographs what-so-ever taken from outside of the camp. * * * * * Again, please look at this closely Roberta and let me know if I've forgotten anything, because this will be the foundation for the next phase of our "debate." |
June 9th, 2008 | #31 |
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Hello Greg id suggest you take a gander at this thread
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=72530 Especially towards the end. The 4 mass grave theory is impossible both by calculations and the machinery used. There's also no forensic proof for any of this either. |
June 10th, 2008 | #32 | ||||||||||||
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RE: Roberto Muehlenkamp
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June 10th, 2008 | #33 | ||||
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Besides, that’s one of the less serious misrepresentations or omissions I have pointed out. There are others you tried over and over again on Topix and here as well, they were pointed out every time and yet you kept repeating them. Case in point: the "96 million teeth" straw-man, which corresponds to the straw-man about Grossman’s "3 million" overestimate which you even said you would drop. And then there are the quote-mining exercises I pointed out in post # 26, leaving out important parts of my statements when quoting them. That’s also lying. Face it, Gerdes, you are a compulsive liar. It’s stronger than you. Better seek help. Quote:
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If you want to include something in the next one of your mendacious "recaps", include the following (emphases added): Quote:
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June 10th, 2008 | #34 | |||||||||||||||
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Also note that Gerdes has not yet tried explaining what, other than mass graves in the "receiving camp" sector of Treblinka (where at least two eyewitnesses described the presence of such mass graves) the shapes pointed out on the photograph "A" are supposed to be. Why does he keep running away from this question? Regarding annotated photograph "B", see below. Quote:
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All of this he does without ever having tried, despite numerous requests in this sense, to show any rules or standards of evidence that would justify his approach – which is understandable insofar as there are no such rules or standards of evidence. A criminal investigator who limits the evidence he looks at to physical evidence and is only interested in photographs but not in written descriptions of that evidence is not a criminal investigator, but an incompetent bungler and a slobbering fool. Quote:
a) my argument is entirely based on eyewitness testimony; b) the eyewitness testimony I am supposed to have based my "entire" argument on (what about the site investigation reports and the German documents you keep ignoring, Gerdes?) is "glaringly contradictory" and "physically impossible", and c) I "cherry-picked" from this eyewitness testimony, i.e. quoted from it out of context or according to no criterion other than convenience to my argument. Let’s see how you support your idiotic accusation, Gerdes. Get cracking. |
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June 10th, 2008 | #35 |
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Is there a reason you all don't like img tags for your pics? You just need to push the little "insert image" button when entering the pic's address ... a reader can't keep opening images for that many pictures.
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June 10th, 2008 | #36 | |||
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Who do you think is stupid enough to fall for yet another repetition of your "recap" baloney? Ah, and please note that Gerdes is afraid of even the artificially limited evidence he is willing to "admit", for he calls into question it’s authenticity by babbling about "alleged" photographic documentation. What a show. Quote:
But as you insist in my reminding you of what part of the artificially limited record of evidence you are not scared to deal with you have "forgotten", I’ll mention just what immediately comes to my mind. This: Quote:
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June 10th, 2008 | #38 | |
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Roberta, as far as your nonsensical accusations that I've been "quote mining," you seem to forget that you see a Nazi conspiracy in every post and your insane ramblings go on and on and on and on and on. For the sake of saving space in my own posts, I can only pick out the highlights of your crazy drivel. Could you imagine how much time and space would be taken up if I copied verbatim all your mentally ill / retarded blather? The recaps that I do are done just to help people cut through all that nonsensical BS you vomit up in every single one of your posts. It's called clarification stupid. And regardless, it's a moot point now isn't it? So why are you still bitching about it? Just to bitch?
Ok Roberta, you have mentioned the photos of the alleged gas chamber and the excavators. But if you will look closely at this link you have provided: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html Those photos are included in that collection. That collection of photos also includes this alleged mass grave photo: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg So I will delete it from my next recap. Again Roberta, all the alleged photographic "proof" of the physical evidence you have presented is either included singularly or is included somewhere in the two links with the collection of photos - excavators, gas chambers and the one "mass grave." Correct? Ok Roberta, I think we’re done here. I have given you more than enough opportunities to present the physical evidence for the Treblinka holocaust. After my final summation, we can move on to the next phase of our "debate." Brutus: Quote:
BTW folks, if you think the asskicking I'm giving Roberta on the subject of Treblinka is brutal, you should see what I've done to her on the subjects of Chelmno and Sobibor. I will start threads on those subjects here soon. |
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June 10th, 2008 | #39 | ||
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Oh, before we go on folks, I really do have to point out something that proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, just how mentally retarded / ill Roberta is.
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Roberta: "Gerdes howling about "tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings" obviously presumes that these objects, easy to identify and pick up after each shooting, were just left lying around by his SS-heroes." Q - Oh that's a good one Roberta. That's going into the archives. Please do explain why the SS picked up their brass and please do explain how they picked up their spent bullets. A - "The spent cartridges they could just pick off the ground." Q - Please explain how they recovered the bullets that passed through the bodies they shot and please explain how they recovered the bullets that stayed within the bodies they shot? A - "Ever heard of bullet-catchers and sand bags, smart-ass?" Q - So Roberta, can you prove that so much as a single bullet or spent cartridge / shell casing was ever so much as seen at Treblinka? A - "That depends on what you mean by "prove", asshole." Q - So you're trying to say that the detection of 50,000 bullets and 50,000 shell casings in one pit couldn't be located with forensic / archeological methods? A - "No, I’m asking you to explain why there should be that many bullets and shell casings in the area... considering that the bullets are likely to have been reduced to molten lead while the cartridges are likely to have been salvaged by your SS heroes. When you have done that, we can chat about "forensic / archeological methods" to find what cartridges are left and identify the molten bullet lead in the soil of Treblinka." Q - Can you show us just one shell casing Roberta? How about just one bullet? Just one Roberta. One. A - "No, I can’t “show” you any specific bullet or shell casing. And you can’t explain what the hell it is supposed to matter that I can’t show you any specific bullet or shell casing, which means that you can stick your idiotic “just one” babbling you-know-where." So Roberta, before we go on, can you show us a photo of the German "bullet-catchers" that were employed at Treblinka? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! |
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June 10th, 2008 | #40 |
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How/why do you conclude that there would be 50,000 shells and shell casings at Treblinka?
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