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Old July 5th, 2011 #1941
Leonard Rouse
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
Leonard Rouse is now ranting like a lunatic and trying to distract attention from the basic facts.
The basic facts:

Steele is a political enemy.

The star witness against him, Fairfax, is a state's evidence slimeball.

The original evidence, the recording, was destroyed.

The purported target of the alleged plot, whom the government claimed they were trying to help out of the goodness of their hearts, didn't believe them.

The FBI keeps finding pipe bombs--just in the nick of time--at minority rallies in the same part of the country where Steele's alleged plot was to have taken place. The FBI can't seem to find this rogue bombmaker (dudmaker).

Gee, Hadding, you're right. Open and shut case. No doubt about it.
 
Old July 5th, 2011 #1942
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How is it that you and Harold Covington just happened--at the exact same moment in time--to each attempt to establish a William Pierce archive?
You obviously don't check anything.

The first post on my William Pierce blog is dated 10 June 2011.

Covington didn't start conversing with the sockpuppets on his blog about a similar idea until 18 June, obviously having noticed what I was doing.
 
Old July 6th, 2011 #1943
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Steele has proven to be quite an embarrassment to the White Nationalist community by getting himself arrested on charges of trying to have his wife killed. He has easily done more harm to our movement than all of the good that he did. He even tried to cheat his hit man by promising him a $100,000 life insurance payment on a non-existant policy.

Steele has fallen thru no fault of his own. The government merely licked its chops and moved in to exploit the opportunity. The only hope that Steele has left is to plead insanity and have the world's expert on surgery induced stroke damage examine his head. He is not to blame for this childish attempt to have his wife killed. He needs help to recover what brain function can be restored.
by Don
Your the embarrassment here Pauley, (you and that other ZOG kiss ass Hadding) The only reason I can see for your Heeb line of reasoning is to try and cast dispersion on someone who very worked hard over the last decade to expose the ZOG agenda. Ed has came out and explained his case in detail and you two trolls still come on here and suck the ADL dick. Now that he has came out in interviews and is not the loonie you have been painting him has, you had to change your story and say he has rewired his brain. (keep to your story no matter what, is this from the Sunstein playbook) Unfortunately, they can't get people like Ed on “hate crimes” because they “only” write about the ADL, but they can sure set up a man when he is down after a near fatal heart condition. A setup is much more plausible than the conspiratorial fed case. They put up a strawman argument and the goyim in the jury went for it, (they lockup a lot of tax protestors the same way). What has become evident on this thread is the trolls/traitors job is to uphold the pro-ADL angle and support the FBI version no matter what.

More Bullshit, you keep bringing up the non-existent girlfriends.

Ed was working on a white slave trading case, his wife knew all about it, that was the reason for his "steamy" emails. The government came up with girlfriend angle to use for a motive for the hit and it is easy to see that your job here is to support that FBI version. It would have been alot more believable if they had not included his mother-in-law in the murder for hire scheme, that was just over the top. It goes to show you that the sheeple will buy anything that ZOG feeds them.
 
Old July 6th, 2011 #1944
Donald E. Pauly
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Default Shrink Will Have His Work Cut Out for Him

When we get a shrink to work on Steele's head, he can also work on John Liberty's head. In fact, it is hard to know which one needs it worse. Steele MIGHT have a slightly greater contact with reality, whatever that is.
 
Old July 6th, 2011 #1945
Leonard Rouse
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You obviously don't check anything.

The first post on my William Pierce blog is dated 10 June 2011.

Covington didn't start conversing with the sockpuppets on his blog about a similar idea until 18 June, obviously having noticed what I was doing.
Sorry. . .In the grand scheme of cosmic time, they happened single digit days apart. No, I don't normally keep track of either you or your man-crush, Covington. I bet you're genuinely surprised.

Likely my last statement on the topic of your current shittiness toward me:

You're a victim blamer, Hadding, among other lowlights. You do it with Ed Steele, and you do it with me in a mere online debate.

It's bad enough to lie about someone on your putative side. It's bad enough to continue the lie. It's bad enough to then attempt to defame your target instead of merely apologizing and letting it go. It's all too typical, and it's indicative of your low character.

You have asserted repeatedly that I have stated to lie for Ed Steele, or other compatriots. I have not stated that. My words were chosen carefully, and are available for all to see.

You have been repeatedly challenged to quote me to back your thoughtless(?) assertion. You have not, because you cannot.

When your lie is such that it could be used officially against someone, the seriousness of the matter rises by orders of magnitude. It's very serious business.

The fact that this is a semi-anonymous forum doesn't change the importance of the matter. It's something that just isn't done.

I find you untrustworthy, Hadding. You reek of something very wrong. I don't know what, specifically. Your impolitic grudge against Ed Steele is a case in point.

I hope others will exercise extreme caution in dealing with you.
 
Old July 6th, 2011 #1946
Donald E. Pauly
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Angry Policing Our Own

Some of the True Believers here have posted that we should support Steele whether or not he did what he was accused of. We must police our own. If Linder himself sticks up a liquor store in broad daylight in front of witnesses , I will personally hold him at gunpoint until I can turn him over to the cops. I would later try to figure out what made him go crazy if that was the case.

In the case at hand Steele is not morally at fault for his going crazy after his surgery. Lawyers are leading him down the road to ruin. They have already plundered his supporters for $120,000 on a laughing stock defense and the end is not in sight.
 
Old July 6th, 2011 #1947
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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Some of the True Believers here have posted that we should support Steele whether or not he did what he was accused of. We must police our own. If Linder himself sticks up a liquor store in broad daylight in front of witnesses , I will personally hold him at gunpoint until I can turn him over to the cops. I would later try to figure out what made him go crazy if that was the case.

In the case at hand Steele is not morally at fault for his going crazy after his surgery. Lawyers are leading him down the road to ruin. They have already plundered his supporters for $120,000 on a laughing stock defense and the end is not in sight.
True Believers is too dignified a term, and not really accurate.

What we see here is the Bolshevist (or thug) attitude that if you march in lockstep behind a lie, you can make it into the truth. If you do not support the party's lie, you are a traitor.

They don't see that lying actually hurts the cause.

I see the necessity of separating oneself from such people. Anytime Linder wants to ban me again, that will be fine.

Last edited by Hadding; July 6th, 2011 at 06:45 PM.
 
Old July 7th, 2011 #1948
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Wesley Hoyt Takes Over

While this is an important new development, the issue of Steele's behavior is still the elephant in the living room. Trying to prove that the recordings are fake is hopeless. Included is Steele's latest Conspiracy Pen Pal letter from jail. I have posted this before I have even read in because it is breaking news.
========
Edgar J. Steele [email protected]
to xxxx
date: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:40 AM
subject: Attorney Wesley Hoyt affirmed as Mr. Steele's representation, Edgar

releases Installment #2: The Tao of ED

(Authored by the www.free-edgar-steele.com Administrators. There was a court hearing today 7/6/2011 in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho on this matter.)Today marks the beginning of a defense for Edgar Steele by attorney Wesley W. Hoyt, formerly the attorney for Cyndi Steele. Over the objection of the Government, who did not want Mr.
Steele to be represented by an effective attorney, the Court ruled that Mr. Hoyt, who was selected by Mr. Steele from the beginning, would be, from this time forth, Mr. Steele’s “attorney of record.” (That term will have special significance to anyone paying attention to this saga as it unfolds, especially in light of events that are about to happen in the very near – we will keep you posted.)

What today’s ruling means is that one of the people who have been closely monitoring the progress of Mr. Steele’s case last August, and one of the ones who believes that Mr. Steele is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt, is now authorized to lead his defense. Mr. Steele’s principle defense is government fabrication of evidence, i.e., two tape recordings where supposedly he asked someone to kill his wife. Although the evidence of government fabrication was suppressed in his trial, Mr. Hoyt’s main thrust will be to bring that
evidence to light to prove government misconduct by Mr. Steele’s accusers.

We asked Mr. Hoyt to comment, however, he is not able to do so based on the local court rules, so you’ll just have to accept our interpretation of events as they unfold, with the promise that we will do the best we can to report the facts as they appear to be.

We understand that Mr. Steele was very calm and in good spirits as he celebrated his sixty-sixth birthday yesterday. He now has a very Zen attitude and is developing what he refers to as the Tao of Ed, (pronounced “Dow”). We wish him great endurance and peace of mind as he endures this false imprisonment and conviction on false charges.

(The first literation of Ed’s “The Tao of ED” -- Installment #2 -- is INCLUDED
BELOW for your convenience.)

Please encourage everyone you know to send contributions as we need to pay to keep this fight alive, which is really a battle for our own freedom with Ed as the one who is vicariously suffering for us now, but before long they will be knocking at your door, arresting you on equally false charges, and if they can get away with it in Ed’s case, they surely won’t be halted from doing it in your case; if you catch our meaning.

Thanks to all the loyal followers who have given so much already, but we will never give up, never!!!!!

=============================================

The Tao of ED
by Edgar J. Steele

For the past year, I have been in jail. If this is news to you, look on www.free-edgar-steele.com for my thoughts on this epic struggle.

Those in jail and prison cells lead particularly difficult lives, in an environment second in stress only (perhaps) to the likes of the Vietnam era’s “Hanoi Hilton” POW camp. In the cruelest turns of fate, most prisoners have seen family and friends turn their backs upon them in shame. But, they may be the
lucky ones, actually.

It seems counter-intuitive, but I have seen many inmates turn their own backs on what few family members and friends have stood by them. Why? Because every contact with loved ones “on the outs” produces extreme emotional pain, starting all over again, every time those contacts end, whether by phone, by letter or in person.
It is far easier to live completely without our loved ones, it seems, than to be continually teased and reminded of what and who we are missing.

Thus far, I have been spared that pain in my once-again-daily contacts with my wonderful wife, Cyndi. I get my share of pain, though, every time I see, speak or hear from my children and friends. Why is it so different for me with Cyndi?
I honestly do not know.

Many wonder how I have emerged intact from a year of solitary/max-security/full-lockdown confinement, being held essentially incommunicado. How can I seem to be peaceful and content? Many more wonder aloud when I am going to have the expected breakdown about being convicted recently of four major felonies. I face a minimum sentence of 30 years, with 70 or more years a very real possibility.

“Jail suits you, Ed,” is the standard reaction obvious on the faces of all who visit me here in jail. Well, maybe. In fact, I suppose it has enabled me to find whole new dimensions to my character and understanding of the Universe.

Every day, I actively work at what I have come to call the Tao of Ed: striving to learn and master Patience, Surrender, Acceptance, and Humility.

By going through a litany of truths (affirmations, some would say) and aphorisms, often several times a day, together with sessions of meditation, I have managed to avoid the desperation, hostility and strain gripping so many of those around me. Every day, I count my blessings rather than curse my misfortunes. Indeed, I have learned to seek out the silver lining of every cloud that comes into my life.

Or, it might all simply be because I am heavily medicated, but that is a story for another day.

What are the “affirmations” I now have come to embrace each day of my life? Glad you asked. Here are the reasons I consider myself to be a lucky man:

I have the love and support of the perfect woman: strong, soft, understanding, forgiving, loving, beautiful and compassionate. Our love is even stronger because of this horrible experience. Like the families of Shakespeare’s star-crossed lovers, Romeo and Juliet, the Feds have done their dead-level best to split us up, but have managed only to make us want to be together all the more.

At age 66, I am in “extra innings” due to defeating cancer, an embolism (aneurysm) and a major aortic aneurysm. How many of us might jump at the chance to return after death, even to a jail cell? With my blood pressure at zero in the hospital elevator, death is exactly what I returned from, six months prior to my arrest.

I have good health, a genuinely youthful, non-“stuffy” outlook, a sense of real power and an important mission in life…also, I still have all my hair, teeth, intellect and looks (☺).

My family and friends have their dignity, self-respect and integrity, despite my predicament, plus an empowering and deep sense of having been wronged by the very system I have fought all my life to preserve, as intended by our forefathers and about which I continually have warned all who will listen.

I have (most of) my dignity, self-respect and integrity.

I am warm, have clean (sort of) clothing, a safe place to sleep, all the food I need and most of the medicines I need.

My very existence has become a symbol of, and object lesson in, the corruption, tyranny and unfairness I have warned about for years. Like many before me, I have become a living example of the corruption, excesses and evils of my time. With my incarceration and conviction on false charges, my message gets through even stronger now.

I have embarked again upon my spiritual quest, abandoned now for over 30 years. This time, I have turned inward for the answers, rather than seeking enlightenment from others (who taught me only about enlightenment, without any actual enlightenment taking place).

I have set upon what I call the path of the “Tao of Ed.” – I have learned Patience (enduring adversity with equanimity) and Surrender (letting go of effort by not struggling against the inevitable). I now am learning Acceptance (wanting what I have, losing it without regret and not needing what I don’t have) and Humility (putting ego aside). Humility is especially difficult for me, but being in jail helps…a lot.

Amazingly, I still have all my friends plus lots of new ones, both “on the outs” and inside every jail through which they have “dieseled” (a concept by the new American Prison Industry that deserves further attention later).

I am learning the real meaning of freedom and a new, heightened appreciation for life.

Somehow, even after my conviction, I am utterly confident that I will be cleared and set free. I have a date with a red sports car in Southern Oregon, you see; yet another story for another day.

I am ready, eager and 100% committed to take up my real life’s work: speaking out to fight Amerikan tyranny and to inspire others, both inside and outside “the movement.”

My ability to influence others has grown with this affair, which seems to have enhanced my stature in “the movement” by making a very real martyr of me.

Again, I am working – really working – on several books, all of which I will finish. My books and my children will be my enduring legacy to the world.

I have been freed from the chains of work, TV and email.

At worst, I really face a sentence of only a handful of years. 8, 30, 70 or 1000 years – at my age, they are all the same to me. Also, by all accounts, prison will be much more interesting and pleasant than county jails (and my “gang” is waiting there for me).

Though I’ve never had an addictive personality, this period has completely detoxed me from all the post-surgical drugs I was using at the time I was arrested. Truth, I am living larger and more peacefully than most people “on the outs.” I am blessed. I am a lucky man.

Never will they be able to defeat me. Never.

Did you see anything that resonated with you? Even though you may not share the exceptional environmental advantage (jail) that I currently “enjoy,” I’ll bet that you can build your own list of 20 things for which you can feel genuinely thankful, each and every day. Ten, at least.

The Tao of Ed. Try it. It may just change your life – and without having to spend a year in jail (or a Buddhist monastery). Your mileage may vary, but I truly am a lucky man.

Even so, I much would prefer to be out there with all of you. But, I am confident that I will be. Just wait. You’ll see.

Copyright ©2011,Edgar J. Steele
Forward as you wish. Permission is granted to circulate this article
and its related audio file among private individuals and groups,
post on all Internet sites and publish in full in all not-for-profit
publications. Contact author for all other rights, which are reserved.
 
Old July 7th, 2011 #1949
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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
While this is an important new development, the issue of Steele's behavior is still the elephant in the living room. Trying to prove that the recordings are fake is hopeless.
No one has any responsibility to "prove that the recordings are fake." It was, and will remain on appeal, the government's reasponsibility to prove that the recordings are genuine.

From what has been reported here, the original recording was destroyed shortly after it was made. At trial the government could not produce either the equipment or the media on which reside the original recording. The best the government could do was provide testimony by a witness of its own employ that the "recordings" introduced as evidence were the same as the ones that were taken in the presence of the defendent. We are not even sure that the witness testifying to that piece of information ever in fact even heard the recording that was made on the original equipment and in its original media. Obviously, there is no point in mounting an appeal unless this evidence and its admission at trial can be impeached, so one must think that the government will be required to do better in establishing admissibility than was done at the trial.

Steele's behavior is actually very unimportant, since it's merely circumstantial and only finds support in innuendo and assertion. The "tapes" are the evidence that convicted Steele, and they will be the evidence that will either sustain the conviction, on appeal, or will be tossed at a new trial. Does anyone here think that Ed Steele can be convicted without the "tape" evidence?

We know that Steele's lead attorney was conducting the trial with full knowledge that he was facing disbarment procedings for what amounts to theft. Is it unreasonable to think that under these circumstances Steele's representation may have suffered in quality and competence?
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Old July 7th, 2011 #1950
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True Believers is too dignified a term, and not really accurate.

What we see here is the Bolshevist (or thug) attitude that if you march in lockstep behind a lie, you can make it into the truth. If you do not support the party's lie, you are a traitor.

They don't see that lying actually hurts the cause.
I object to this characterization of posters who disagree with your repeated assertions that Ed Steele is clearly guilty of attempting to contract for the killing of his wife and mother-in-law.

Objecting to the Court's having allowed into evidence material that may well have failed multiple requirements concerning authenticity and custody constitutes no lie and no Bolshevism.

You're certainly welcome to take the point of view that conviction by jury is the be-all and end-all of the question of guilt or innocence. Others may believe that closer examination can show that a jury was denied critical evidence (the testimony of Steele's expert, perhaps?), that the jury was given false, tampered, or disallowed evidence, that counsel was incompetent, biased, or distracted, or that the Court erred in its instructions to the jury. Suggesting that these aspects may have impacted the trial and may result in a new trial or acquital on appeal is no lie, is no conspiracy theory, and is no Bolshevism.
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Old July 7th, 2011 #1951
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Originally Posted by notmenomore View Post
I object to this characterization of posters who disagree with your repeated assertions that Ed Steele is clearly guilty of attempting to contract for the killing of his wife and mother-in-law.

Objecting to the Court's having allowed into evidence material that may well have failed multiple requirements concerning authenticity and custody constitutes no lie and no Bolshevism.

You're certainly welcome to take the point of view that conviction by jury is the be-all and end-all of the question of guilt or innocence. Others may believe that closer examination can show that a jury was denied critical evidence (the testimony of Steele's expert, perhaps?), that the jury was given false, tampered, or disallowed evidence, that counsel was incompetent, biased, or distracted, or that the Court erred in its instructions to the jury. Suggesting that these aspects may have impacted the trial and may result in a new trial or acquital on appeal is no lie, is no conspiracy theory, and is no Bolshevism.
You make some good points but the authenticity of the recordings is a red herring. The objection of Steele's daughter to a train whistle on the recording turned out to be the best confirmation of their authenticity.

It is undisputed that before his arrest that Steele wrote 14,000 emails on dating websites to Ukrainian women. By Steele's own admission a client from Illinois was supposed cheated out of $4,000 in a Ukrainian bride scam. This scam was old and boring news 20 years ago. If Steele cannot crack the scam in 1,000 emails he is incompetent. If he sent 14,000 emails and failed to do the job, he has AT LEAST an obsessive/compulsive disorder. That is 7 emails per working hour for a year. Steele was sued by his wife for divorce over his use of dating websites in 2000. This is nearly certain proof of his being crazy at the time of his arrest.

It is further undisputed that Steele wrote AT LEAST two steamy love letters while in jail to his Ukrainian girlfiend Tatiyana Loganova. In them he told her that he wanted her to have his babies, wanted her to sleep beside him, and that he was divorced. It is undisputed that she does not speak English and had to have his letters translated. His daughter testified that she sent him a Russian book to study while in jail to allow him to write Tatiyana without her having to have his letters translated. It is therefore INDISPUTABLE that Steele was crazy AFTER the arrest. The exact time frame of these letters has not been published.

Steele has admitted
Quote:
Though I’ve never had an addictive personality, this period has completely detoxed me from all the post-surgical drugs I was using at the time I was arrested.
This makes me wonder if he was abusing those drugs. I have previously attributed all of his behavior to brain damage from aorta surgery. While this is still likely, post surgical drugs may explain part of it.
 
Old July 7th, 2011 #1952
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Default No compelling reason = non-admissability

None of the "Steele-is-guilty" types have bothered to come up with a single reason which would compel the FBI agent to erase the original minidisk and sloppily avoid identified the exact recording device, as well as refusing to maintain a chain of custody over these items. No compelling reason has been suggested - because there is NONE.

I no longer care to research appellate decisions, but, anyone who is still active in that arena can search for "best evidence" as opposed to "substitutions/copies", and discover that the ONLY way a court can accept less than the original BEST EVIDENCE would be if the parties wanting to use a substitute can bring forward a good reason which COMPELLED them to not preserve the original best evidence. The agent who destroyed the original minidisk only stated (on the stand, that he "considered" the copy on his PC as being an "original", and that the minidisk was erased to be returned to the pool. This may satisfy those who have convinced themselves that Ed is guilty, but, for ordinary persons with no dog in this fight, the agent's reasoning is far from compelling him to go out of his way to erase the original - his decision to do so may have been "procedure", or whimsical, but, no one would conclude that he was COMPELLED to do so.

This "evidence" (the PC copy) should have been disallowed way back during the bail hearing, when it was introduced to deny Ed bail. And it is NOT imperative that the defense raise this issue - it is the duty of the COURT to recognize deviations from tried and proven cases involving best evidence and substitutions. This judge either expects the appellate judges to be as corrupt as he is, or, he is a stupid idiot just waiting to be overturned for allowing substitution evidence in lieu of best evidence FOR NO COMPELLING REASON.
 
Old July 7th, 2011 #1953
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Angry Non-Issue Due to Thieving Lawyer's Incompetence

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Originally Posted by Contumacyman View Post
None of the "Steele-is-guilty" types have bothered to come up with a single reason which would compel the FBI agent to erase the original minidisk and sloppily avoid identified the exact recording device, as well as refusing to maintain a chain of custody over these items. No compelling reason has been suggested - because there is NONE.

I no longer care to research appellate decisions, but, anyone who is still active in that arena can search for "best evidence" as opposed to "substitutions/copies", and discover that the ONLY way a court can accept less than the original BEST EVIDENCE would be if the parties wanting to use a substitute can bring forward a good reason which COMPELLED them to not preserve the original best evidence. The agent who destroyed the original minidisk only stated (on the stand, that he "considered" the copy on his PC as being an "original", and that the minidisk was erased to be returned to the pool. This may satisfy those who have convinced themselves that Ed is guilty, but, for ordinary persons with no dog in this fight, the agent's reasoning is far from compelling him to go out of his way to erase the original - his decision to do so may have been "procedure", or whimsical, but, no one would conclude that he was COMPELLED to do so.

This "evidence" (the PC copy) should have been disallowed way back during the bail hearing, when it was introduced to deny Ed bail. And it is NOT imperative that the defense raise this issue - it is the duty of the COURT to recognize deviations from tried and proven cases involving best evidence and substitutions. This judge either expects the appellate judges to be as corrupt as he is, or, he is a stupid idiot just waiting to be overturned for allowing substitution evidence in lieu of best evidence FOR NO COMPELLING REASON.
All of your points are well taken under normal conditions but not likely here. The exact type of recording device was not disclosed. If it was a pocket MP3 player/recorder there would not really be an original recording. This is true only of ancient analog recorders which used quarter inch audio tape or smaller versions of it. The digital file would be downloaded to a host computer and distributed from there.

In any event, Steele's incompetent lawyer who is now disbarred for stealing from a client raised no objection on the originality point. He instead claimed that the recording was faked. That is a red herring and is likely nearly impossible here. The only reasonable explanation of this mess is that surgery caused Steele to go crazy and do essentially what the government claims that he did.

This does not excuse the entrapment of Steele by the government who had to have known that he was crazy.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1954
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I object to this characterization of posters who disagree with your repeated assertions that Ed Steele is clearly guilty of attempting to contract for the killing of his wife and mother-in-law.

Objecting to the Court's having allowed into evidence material that may well have failed multiple requirements concerning authenticity and custody constitutes no lie and no Bolshevism.

You're certainly welcome to take the point of view that conviction by jury is the be-all and end-all of the question of guilt or innocence. Others may believe that closer examination can show that a jury was denied critical evidence (the testimony of Steele's expert, perhaps?), that the jury was given false, tampered, or disallowed evidence, that counsel was incompetent, biased, or distracted, or that the Court erred in its instructions to the jury. Suggesting that these aspects may have impacted the trial and may result in a new trial or acquital on appeal is no lie, is no conspiracy theory, and is no Bolshevism.
My position is simply that the Mission Impossible story lacks credibility on its face -- which is the commonsense view that almost anyone would take -- and that, furthermore, over a year later there is no evidence to support it.

According to the newspaper account, there was nothing in Papcun's finding that really supported Steele's case. Nothing "suspicious" in the recording, he said. How can that be "critical evidence"?

If there was something done wrong procedurally that would have made a difference then Steele's counsel should have challenged it.

I gave Steele the benefit of the doubt insofar as I would consider that he was framed if he could produce evidence. Without evidence the story is just laughable.

Anybody who insists that a story like that must be accepted as truth and calls the doubters traitors and enemy operatives is way outside the bounds of rational discourse.

Last edited by Hadding; July 8th, 2011 at 01:52 AM.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1955
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This does not excuse the entrapment of Steele by the government who had to have known that he was crazy.
I don't think that I have encountered any claim that the FBI entrapped Steele. They say framed with false evidence, which is not the same thing. You are arguing with yourself again.

So far as I can tell the FBI in this case just did their job, which was to collect evidence of a crime after it has been reported. It is not their responsibility to assess the mental state of the person who committed the crime.

Larry Fairfax hasn't exactly been a friend in this situation. He could have gone to Mrs. Steele instead of the FBI and Ed Steele could have been taken for a psychiatric evaluation then. If I ever get into such a state of mind that I start talking about killing people, I hope not to be in the company of such friends when it happens.

Last edited by Hadding; July 8th, 2011 at 02:31 AM.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1956
Contumacyman
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Hadding wrote:

"So far as I can tell the FBI in this case just did their job..."

So you think destroying critical evidence is "just doing their job"? You think committing misprission of a felony when they claimed to have the evidence in hand is "just doing their job"? What kind of standards do you hold the FBI to?
Do you assume the FBI is not capable of criminal behavior in their zeal to "make a case"?
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1957
Donald E. Pauly
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
I don't think that I have encountered any claim that the FBI entrapped Steele. They say framed with false evidence, which is not the same thing. You are arguing with yourself again.

So far as I can tell the FBI in this case just did their job, which was to collect evidence of a crime after it has been reported. It is not their responsibility to assess the mental state of the person who committed the crime.

Larry Fairfax hasn't exactly been a friend in this situation. He could have gone to Mrs. Steele instead of the FBI and Ed Steele could have been taken for a psychiatric evaluation then. If I ever get into such a state of mind that I start talking about killing people, I hope not to be in the company of such friends when it happens.
I argue with myself all of the time and sometimes I win. As another poster correctly observed, as soon as Fairfax reported the incident to the Famous But Incompetent, they had probable cause to arrest Steele. Instead they equipped Fairfax with a recorder and got him to commit more felonies to better get evidence on Steele. When their agent commits crimes to nail a defendent that constitutes entrapment.

It is beyond argument that Fairfax is a real scumbag. He had a reputation in the community for cheating his employees and stealing other peoples timber. It has never been explained what he was doing on Steele's property in the first place. It has also never been revealed how Fairfax got access to Cyndi's vehicle to install the pipe bomb. This was not a five minute job with a fatso like him crawling under the vehicle.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1958
Donald E. Pauly
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Originally Posted by Contumacyman View Post
Hadding wrote:

"So far as I can tell the FBI in this case just did their job..."

So you think destroying critical evidence is "just doing their job"? You think committing misprission of a felony when they claimed to have the evidence in hand is "just doing their job"? What kind of standards do you hold the FBI to?
Do you assume the FBI is not capable of criminal behavior in their zeal to "make a case"?
The FBI can and does frame/entrap people daily. The issue is whether or not they did it here. Steele was a low priority target in the White Nationalist community. He was little known outside of the VNN crowd. David Duke was a far more suitable target with his talk of presidential ambitions. Fabricating the recording would be a MAJOR job by the best editors of major recording studios. It would involve dozens of people any one of whom could expose the operation and cause huge damage to the Famous But Incompetent.

Making a key to Steele's trunk and planting a pound of junk cocaine would have been a far better and vastly cheaper way to frame him. It could have been done with no paper or computer trail.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1959
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Donald E Pauly wrote:

"as soon as Fairfax reported the incident to the Famous But Incompetent, they had probable cause to arrest Steele..."

Not quite. Mere accusation of a crime by a witness does not make a primae facea case - it is grounds only for further investigation.
The misprission occurred twice, the first time Larry emerged from his recorded conversation with Ed and surrendered his device to the FBI, and, two days later, the 2nd time he emergred with a 2nd recording.

The FBI claims that both recordings contained Ed's criminal words, and, since they had them in hand on the spot (and could confirm their contents within the hour), and since they had Ed in their eyesight, then their failure to arrest Ed right then and there constitutes misprission of a felon. But this is only true provided that the recordings that Larry surrendered to the FBI actually had Ed's criminal words on them - a big IF. If no such words were on either of those recordings, then the FBI would have to wait until "the tapes are ready" (the very words they used to put Cindy off as to an alledged 3rd tape).

Donald Pauly wrote:

"The FBI can and does frame/entrap people daily. The issue is whether or not they did it here".

No sir. The issue is whether or not it is UNREASONABLE to suppose that maybe they did it here. A reasonable doubt is all that is required to return "not guilty", and, I doubt that even you nor Hadding will say that it is UNREASONABLE to suppose the FBI conjured up a case. Maybe the did, and maybe that didn't, but, it is NOT beyond reason so suppose that they did. ED does NOT have to prove anything but provide an alternative to the FBI's story that is not unreasonable to suppose might be true. That is the time-honored rule of law in the good ole' USA - innocent until proven guilty BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Maybe you and Hadding, and any of the other "ED-is-guilty" types don't allow yourselves to have any doutbs, but you are being disingenious to disallow ordinary folks with no axe to grind to have reasonable doubts. Ed may be guilty, or he may not be - I am not able to determine that, which means that he should have been judged "not guilty" due to the reasonable doubts that must exist from the FBI's on sloppy behavior.

One of the things I learned growing up in America was, "better to let 100 guilty parties go free than to convict ONE INNOCENT MAN". I still believe in that. And even if Ed really did try to hire Larry to kill his wife, the way the FBI mishandled the critical evidence and procedures here is enough to cast reasonble doubts about it to those without prior prejudice.
 
Old July 8th, 2011 #1960
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Originally Posted by Contumacyman View Post
Donald E Pauly wrote:
........
No sir. The issue is whether or not it is UNREASONABLE to suppose that maybe they did it here. A reasonable doubt is all that is required to return "not guilty", and, I doubt that even you nor Hadding will say that it is UNREASONABLE to suppose the FBI conjured up a case. Maybe the did, and maybe that didn't, but, it is NOT beyond reason so suppose that they did. ED does NOT have to prove anything but provide an alternative to the FBI's story that is not unreasonable to suppose might be true. That is the time-honored rule of law in the good ole' USA - innocent until proven guilty BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Maybe you and Hadding, and any of the other "ED-is-guilty" types don't allow yourselves to have any doutbs, but you are being disingenious to disallow ordinary folks with no axe to grind to have reasonable doubts. Ed may be guilty, or he may not be - I am not able to determine that, which means that he should have been judged "not guilty" due to the reasonable doubts that must exist from the FBI's on sloppy behavior.
........
It is remotely possible that the FBI manufactured these recordings. It is CERTAIN that Steele was crazy after his arrest when he wrote steamy love letters to his Unkrainian girlfriend from jail. He was plenty crazy to have done something like this and worse. Occam's Razor settles the issue. Any way that you figure it, he is not responsible for his conduct and he needs medical help. Evidence that he did essentially what he was accused of is overwhelming. Only an entrapment/insanity defense is going to get him out.
 
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