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Old August 19th, 2005 #21
Sean Martin
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Here is the scene in case you didn’t put the pieces together. I am trading my 4-cyl in a couple months. I live in probably the roughest terrain of anyone on VNNF. If it will improve performance and fuel economy in my truck with no noticeable damage it will do wonders with a vehicle in normal conditions. 10,000 miles where I live is like 100,000 miles on dry level roads.

See?


Quote:
Originally Posted by n9odi
sean(doc)martin:

That was a very interesting story you told us, though I'm not quite sure how it's relevant to this thread. Would you like to share your thoughts about this topic also?
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Old August 19th, 2005 #22
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This page http://www.utoronto.ca/safety/WHMIS/whmis11d.htm says the big concern with combustion of acetone is carbon monoxide, so it sounds like it isn't much worse than gasoline. Don't know for sure.
 
Old August 19th, 2005 #23
n9odi
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Here is another more detailed website about the health effects of acetone.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts21.html

Doesn't look that bad. Just like any other chemical solvent, too much is bad, but just a rare occasional contact won't hurt you.


I drove through WV twice on all the extremely steep highways and whatnot on my junky 4 cyl ford sedan doing 80 uphill, when I didn't even use acetone. I still don't see how it's absolutely required to own a truck just to get around. As long as the road is paved any car should do. That's just my opinion though, you live there so I'm sure you have your reasons. Either way any car/truck that uses gas/diesel should get a boost from Acetone.
 
Old August 19th, 2005 #24
Sean Martin
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Oh yeah you don't know about me. As most here know I build houses for a living and I usally keep two trucks, a 4-wheel drive for those hard to get to places and a regular full size truck for hauling around my tools. Also winters here require a 4-wheel drive.

BTW I'm Sean Martin good to meet you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9odi
I still don't see how it's absolutely required to own a truck just to get around. As long as the road is paved any car should do. That's just my opinion though, you live there so I'm sure you have your reasons. Either way any car/truck that uses gas/diesel should get a boost from Acetone.
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Old August 19th, 2005 #25
Kind Lampshade Maker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Ruffian
Any good health/environmental reasons for avoiding acetone?
Here's an explanation through a recent incident:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Detroit_...ents_evacuated
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8890744/
The hazard of acetone burning manifests itself when acetone doesn't burn completely, through lack of oxygen feed, as what happened in Detroit. The surrounding heat vaporizes the unburned acetone sending irritating fumes through the atmosphere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Ruffian
What's it make when it burns?
If you get hold the molecular formula for acetone and add an oxygen atom to it, the resulting formula is what you'll get when you burn acetone.
In any event, under ideal conditions, acetone will burn to near completion.
Pour a small amount of acetone in a container equivalent to that of a shot glass, in size. Then light it up
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Last edited by Kind Lampshade Maker; August 19th, 2005 at 05:31 PM.
 
Old August 19th, 2005 #26
n9odi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin
Oh yeah you don't know about me. As most here know I build houses for a living and I usally keep two trucks, a 4-wheel drive for those hard to get to places and a regular full size truck for hauling around my tools. Also winters here require a 4-wheel drive.

BTW I'm Sean Martin good to meet you.
Thanks for introducing yourself, now I see your situation and how trucks are unavoidable and a boost in mpg can make a big improvement on the wallet.

Also, since you're in construction I have a quick question if you don't mind.

Say you have a concrete rebar reinforced wall that is about 6-12 inches thick. This wall ins't yours, but what's behind is free to explore and not owned by anyone. How would you go about getting through the wall without getting noticed?
 
Old August 19th, 2005 #27
Sean Martin
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I am not sure the mods would allow me to answer that since I don’t want to be an accessory to B&E.

There are to many variables to give an accurate answer. I can give you a briefing on concrete buildings. Some buildings are made with hollow cinder block, while others are made with 80-pound solid block. A few are made from poured concrete, which is one solid piece, and others are brick. Then one must know if it is seamed or a solid piece.

Then if you are lucky enough there is the juggernaut, which I build and it is somewhat expensive and requires something short of a tank. It is hollow cinder block, with quarter inch steel bars inserted (these are common and can be salvaged rather cheaply) every 6 inches. Then the blocks are poured full of concrete and then reinforced with interior metal crisscross strips. This is about the cheapest way you can build something short of a bank vault or government instillation. The entire process is amazingly reasonable and the expensive things are the doors and windows since they must be about 50 times stronger than normal doors and windows or else the building is pointless.


Edit I read you post again more closely and realized the reinforcement you spoke of is used in jails and explosive storage facilities. So I erased part of my original post.




2&4 on this pic are the ones I use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9odi
Say you have a concrete rebar reinforced wall that is about 6-12 inches thick. This wall ins't yours, but what's behind is free to explore and not owned by anyone. How would you go about getting through the wall without getting noticed?
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Last edited by Sean Martin; August 19th, 2005 at 10:58 PM.
 
Old August 20th, 2005 #28
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It's just an abandoned facility. I'm not planning to do this, but it never hurts to think. Many people have done it before to their weaker cinder block seals, but the people that own it just keep resealing it with concrete.
 
Old August 21st, 2005 #29
n9odi
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I just drilled a bunch of neat 1" holes in my air intake right outside of the air filter, so the air doesn't have to go through all the useless junk car companies add. I got a big boost and the whole car sounds/drives different. I'm noticing a boost in mpg on my scan gauge, but I'll have to wait till the end of my just filled tank to find out.

Also, the previous tank I went 3 oz of acetone instead of 2.5 as usual. I got a really big boost. I've beat my past record of getting 350 something out a tank with the new high of 363 miles. Normally I wouldn't get higher than 330, but 360? Now my goal is to reach 400 with further modifications That and I'm getting SL grade oil from torco by UPS pretty soon, I'll update on my results from it when I get to use it.
 
Old August 21st, 2005 #30
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That stuff is there to keep dust from getting in your motor. Sure you will get a boost in power but you will to about 3 times the damage to your motor than you would under normal driving. I know someone that did that and he destroyed his car the first time he got on a dusty road.

Use a K&N air filter it works for a million miles and you get the same results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9odi
I just drilled a bunch of neat 1" holes in my air intake right outside of the air filter, so the air doesn't have to go through all the useless junk car companies add.
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Old August 21st, 2005 #31
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I can't even imagine doing the modifications you mentioned, I'm not retarded (no offense). What I meant was:

I drilled the holes outside of the air filter, as in the outside air can go through those holes before it goes through my already k&n air filter. Rather than buying expensive air intake mods, or having less flow due to engineering flaws, I made a quick fix and regained the lost performance.

Before it used to go through a small hole by the wheel. Now it gets unrestrictive flow from inside the engine compartment, according to lubedev.com (the guy has been testing mpg improvements for at least 40 years, I'm sure he knows what he's doing) warm air is better anyways.

I may not be a car mechanic, but I have more than enough common sense to lead me into doing the right things.
 
Old August 22nd, 2005 #32
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Do you have a water temp guage in the car you're trying acetone in? Acetone increases the amount of "frontend" in gasoline. The vapor producing part of gas. Increasing the octane test result. Unsure how your claim of reduced surface tension would affect gas in a fuel injected engine.
Not saying you are wrong, just that I have questions.
Hot-rodders have tried every known substance. I know of none that use acetone. I believe the prohibition has been that the increased temp. of combustion was unfriendly to aluminum pistons. Modern engines are designed to operate at higher temps, though. Please do keep the forum updated with your findings.
Internal combustion engine is just a pump. Less restriction to the inlet side (airbox mods) makes a more effecient pump. Us old-timers just flipped the air cleaner lid. Hard to do with molded plastic...
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Old August 22nd, 2005 #33
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I have a scanguage which even shows the temperature of the engine digitally. I always stay around 193-5 F, sometimes on really hot days I reach 205 but it never gets any higher. I'm guessing the engine adjusts the cooling or something to suit it's operation. I'm not sure exactly but all I can say is that it works very good and does not overheat or give me any problems

Acetone isn't that popular, I guess due to oil companies and average skeptical American morons. I've even had one mechanic insult me about this even though he's never used it or even knows what it does. But he was a certified GM mechanic, so I guess that makes him god of all knowledge.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer. But the best thing you can do is go out and try it, I've already saved myself at least a tank or 2 by using it.
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #34
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Would anyone like to share their results from using this or does anyone even care? If we spent 1/10th the effort we use for bitching about everything to actually finding and utilizing solutions, we'd be well better off by now.
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #35
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n9odi:

I would be interested in trying it, but I'm a bit concerned about the possibility of the fuel lines being eroded by acetone. Don't know if this has already been discussed, but acetone is highly corrosive to plastics (even in small quantities). I'd be interested in giving it a try if this isn't a problem... I currently get about 23 mpg.
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Ruffian
Any good health/environmental reasons for avoiding acetone? What's it make when it burns?
You should try not to inhale acetone or get it on your skin much, since it does soak in and can damage your liver. But a little exposure once in a while won't hurt most people; "nail-polish remover" into which women dip their fingertips is acetone (with a few other unnecessary ingredients).

Last edited by Hadding; August 26th, 2005 at 10:05 PM.
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Ruffian
This page http://www.utoronto.ca/safety/WHMIS/whmis11d.htm says the big concern with combustion of acetone is carbon monoxide, so it sounds like it isn't much worse than gasoline. Don't know for sure.
Production of carbon monoxide would result from inadequate oxygen in the combustion process. I suppose that an engine could be designed or adjusted to provide more air for combustion of gasoline with the acetone additive.

I wonder if environmental regulations are the reason why acetone is not used in fuel.

Last edited by Hadding; August 25th, 2005 at 01:39 AM.
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palatine Creator
I went into an automotive chat-room and got this response: Yes it works, but "you had better have poly and not rubber lines and alcohol rated diaphragms."

Last edited by Hadding; August 25th, 2005 at 02:42 AM.
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #39
n9odi
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I don't believe there is any environmental harm done by using Acetone. Even if it does produce carbon monoxide, that's already produced by the car anyways. And not to mention you will be burning more gasoline and making less soot, actually having cleaner emissions. It's harder to notice on cars because they rarely make any, but people with trucks say that they never get black soot coming out their exhaust pipes during accelerating any more.

Fuel line is the biggest worry, but then also consider the fact that gasoline also dissolves weak plastics and etc. And then also don't forget the small quantities acetone is used in. In my opinion there is really no risk with fuel line damage if you consider those 2 points. People that have done the experiment of soaking rubber gaskets and etc used in cars with an acetone mix 10 times stronger for months said they did not notice any damage done.

I should replicate that experiment too and then take pictures. Someone give me a list of things I should buy at a car parts store and if it's not that expensive I'll soak them and keep everyone updated
 
Old August 25th, 2005 #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlwind
...Hot-rodders have tried every known substance. I know of none that use acetone. I believe the prohibition has been that the increased temp. of combustion was unfriendly to aluminum pistons. Modern engines are designed to operate at higher temps, though...
Hot rodders aren't interest in increasing fuel economy. They burn Nitro-Methane anyway.
Measuring water temperature is not a completely accurate method for measuring combustion chamber temperature. So, I'd throw that experiment out the window. Aluminim is an optimal conductor of heat, anyhow. So, I wouldn't worry. If you ran 2 identicle vehicles under identicle conditions. 1 on acetone mix. The other traditional. Then tear off a cylinder head from each engine, after a couple hundred thousand miles. Any differece whatsoever (if) should show up then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlwind
...Internal combustion engine is just a pump. Less restriction to the inlet side (airbox mods) makes a more effecient pump. Us old-timers just flipped the air cleaner lid. Hard to do with molded plastic...
Back then, that muzzle was designed to silence the music carburetors used to make, at the expense of performance-economy
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