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Old September 9th, 2005 #1
Alex Linder
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Default Where Did the Aryans (the White Race) Originate?

‘Aryans came from near Kazhakstan’

Pune, September 9: Fresh evidence suggests that the home of the Aryans was near Kazhakstan, around Altai Dagh, also called the ‘golden mountain.’ It is highly likely that the Aryans migrated from this region around 10,000 years ago due to adverse environment and reached Afghanistan and India, said archaeologist MK Dhavalikar, emphasising that Lokmanya Tilak’s theory of the Arctic home of the Vedas was not far off the mark.

Dhavalikar was speaking on ‘The Aryans: Old problem and new evidence’ on the occasion of the 80th death anniversary of R G Bhandarkar, at the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute (BORI) on Thursday.

‘‘The Rig Vedic Aryans have recorded their memory in a hymn which says that many days have passed before sunrise. This points to a cold place nearer the Northern Pole. The reference to Mount Meru, mountain of gold, in the Puranas then points to Altai Dagh,’’ said Dhavalikar.

While they may have come from outside India, they lived in the Sapta-Sindhu area, the region bound by the river Sindhu in the west and Saraswati in the east, where they stayed for 7,000 years, said Dhavalikar, adding that whether to call them outsiders after such a long stay depended on one’s perspective.

He pointed as evidence recent publication about excavations at Mehrgarh in present day Baluchistan. The Harappan ancestry can now be stretched back by a couple of millennia thanks to the Mehrgarh excavation findings, said Dhavalikar. ‘‘Here, the significant period between 4500 to 3800 BC shows the arrival of new people who introduced wheel-made painted pottery, mother goddess worship and copper. They seem to have come from through neighbouring Afghanistan and later, after 4000 BC started to spread into the Saraswati valley where further development into the urban Harappan and its degenerate form, the Late Harappans can be traced in unbroken succession,’’ he said.

‘‘There is also evidence of some Aryan branches migrating from India due to harsh conditions — tectonic movement, drying up of water sources — to West Asia, due to similarities in languages and motifs,’’ said Dhavalikar.

The function was chaired by Deccan College director K Padayya and was conducted by honorary secretary, M G Dhadphale. The institute released eight publications.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=147855
 
Old September 10th, 2005 #2
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bump.bump.
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Old December 5th, 2005 #3
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Yes we came out of North central Asia, however the dates are far to early. More likely the Aryans the went in to India and Iran also had a branch that went into Scandinavia, and China. Remeber they will try to lie as much as possible, because the Yudas, Judas, jews also came with us. They are the evil ones who abandon the vedas and wage war with the twiced born, the Aryans.
 
Old January 2nd, 2006 #4
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Default more rampant speculation

This is just more academic speculation. Some guy who had to publish in order to keep his faculty seat.
 
Old January 2nd, 2006 #5
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Default David Frawley

India has extensive archaeological remains that are among the largest and oldest in the world. Harappan India or India of the so-called 'Indus Valley Civilization' was the largest urban civilization in the world of its times in the third millennium BC (3100-1900 BCE), with major sites extending from the Ganges river in the east to Afghanistan in the west, from the border of Iran to near Bombay. However, India's role in ancient civilization has been largely ignored in favor of more culturally comfortable, though geographically much smaller cultures in the Near East, in spite of the fact that such ancient cultures frequently lauded the greatness of India themselves. How many of us know that the civilizations of Egypt and Mesopotamia would fit easily into Harappan India with much room to spare, so much larger was the Indian civilization. There has been an even greater ignoring of the Vedic literature of India, which is by far the largest that has been preserved from the ancient world.

Some say the Rig Veda was brought to India by the Aryans.
Oh, that's plain misinterpretation. The Rig Veda speaks of the Saraswati river as the homeland. And geological records now show that the Saraswati was the largest river in India before 2000 BC, going back at least 5000 years before that. There are many other factors. Harappan sites display swastikas, yagyashalas (Vedic fire ritual sites), and figures sitting in meditation. I think the gap between Vedic records and archaeological records exist more in the mind of the western scholars. Landsat photography from outer space showed that there was once a Saraswati river.

Was this pre-Indus Valley civilization or post?
There were several Vedic ages; the Harappan period was part of the late Vedic age. You have to understand that the Vedas are a record—just one book as the record of the culture. If you had only one book preserved from the modern world, it would not represent all the cultures, all the people and every aspect of it. It represents a major trend within that society, but you can't make it exhaustive.

The Myth of Aryan Invasion
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/818...lance&n=283155

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_R...n_invasion.htm

http://www.geocities.com/akhandbharat1947/Aryan.html

http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld/review2.php
 
Old January 2nd, 2006 #6
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Default Selective vocabulary

Quote:
Originally Posted by albion

The Myth of Aryan Invasion
I like the way that they use words.
When history supports a PC agenda , it is 'evidence'.
When history refutes the PC agenda, it is 'myth'.
So convenient !

.
 
Old January 9th, 2006 #7
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Default interview with premier archaeo-geneticist spencer wells on the aryan question

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/27inter.htm

"Some people say Aryans are the original inhabitants of India. What is your view on this theory?

The Aryans came from outside India. We actually have genetic evidence for that. Very clear genetic evidence from a marker that arose on the southern steppes of Russia and the Ukraine around 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. And it subsequently spread to the east and south through Central Asia reaching India. It is on the higher frequency in the Indo-European speakers, the people who claim they are descendants of the Aryans, the Hindi speakers, the Bengalis, the other groups. Then it is at a lower frequency in the Dravidians. But there is clear evidence that there was a heavy migration from the steppes down towards India."
 
Old January 10th, 2006 #8
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Default good segment, the rest is junk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidhean Dracoi
I read the article. You quoted the only good part in the entire article.

The final paragraph is total junk:

You are very critical of racism.

Yes. We are all much closely related than we ever expected. Racism is not only socially divisive, but also scientifically incorrect. We are all descendants of people who lived in Africa recently. We are all Africans under the skin.


What a complete lie ! Under the skin we are radically different. Anthropologists can tell the race of an individual just by the jawbone in most cases. Any dentist can tell the race just by looking at teeth.


"Racism is not only socially divisive, but also scientifically incorrect."

The most casual observer can see massive differences between the races.

Geez, the junk that masquerades as scientific knowledge.


(Dr. Spencer Wells is either a fool, or a lying hypocrite !)
 
Old January 10th, 2006 #9
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I completely agree about Spencer Wells. He is intelligent, so the question is whether he just toes the line according to the Judeo-Boasian modern anthropological establishment or is he genuinely a sentimentalistic fool in the realm of ideology? (A characteristic failure of modern denaturalized Indo-Europeans).

On an unrelated note, would you know the specific text where Schopenhauer calls Jews the great masters of lying? This is entirely in keeping with his philosophy, but I cannot find the specific location.
 
Old January 10th, 2006 #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidhean Dracoi
On an unrelated note, would you know the specific text where Schopenhauer calls Jews the great masters of lying? This is entirely in keeping with his philosophy, but I cannot find the specific location.
Parerga und Paralipomena
 
Old January 6th, 2007 #11
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Mind the usage of word "Aryan" as a denominator of Indo-Iranians. In this acception, one of the points of your article is correct. Archaeological evidence (and racial, I'm certain, but noone studies race anymore) suggests Indo-Iranians followed their herds eastwards into Eurasian steppes, from which they descended in Iranian Plateau and Indus Valley by 1,500BC, the date when their language started to diverge. A speaker of Avestan could still understand basic Sanscrit, thus the separation of Indians and Iranians preceded first attested linguistic evidence by no more than a few centuries.
 
Old March 21st, 2007 #12
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Too bad they wrongly spelled "Kazakhstan" in the article. Other than that, very well written and very interesting!

My views are actually quite similar, I don't necessarily believe in the Caucasus as the starting point; maybe only for the Indo-European branch of Aryans, but I think the other racially Whites may've branched off far earlier more eastwards.
 
Old November 26th, 2008 #13
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[Mleccha]

[...] the Ukrainian LGM Refuge is the end of that story. We knew a long time ago this was the "sweet spot", but at last genetics and geology converged to destroy to all other hypotheses (the only worthy contender having been the Anatolian). You must understand that talk of further "debate" or "proof", or the inevitability of uncertainty, is nothing more than modern scientific rhetoric. These things not only can be, but have been proved a few times over: if you wait for a modern scholar to say so you'll be waiting forever. It was never even far-fetched to begin with; I can name at least four scholars of the 19thC. who, long before modern genetics, concluded that the "borderland", in particular the lower Donets'k / Black Sea Depression, was the obvious origin of these "Aryans". You must beware of taking up the overly cautious rhetoric of the modern scholar in endlessly deferring the obvious conclusion to a pretty obvious problem, not least because in this field they're all under the taboo of not seeming too passionate about Aryan origins. Why do you think Bruce Lincoln (an actual Marxist) was suspicious of Dumézil and attempts to discredit him every five years? Because the latter relied on Stig Wikander, who was a Nazi. Why is Gamkrelidze still taken seriously — could it be because he's non-Aryan and wrote his masterpiece under the Soviets? why are Drews & Renfrew such insufferable plodding dunderheads in face of Witzel, Mallory & Anthony?

Truth is, there's all the evidence one could wish for, but a bunch of little people who don't want it to be finished retard consensus, who've made a career out of their pet theories and can't afford a volte-face, even a slight north-west reorientation You must also consider, to be genuinely conscionable in thinking about this matter, that your own insistence on a need for "debate and learning" (all the foregoing men aren't learned enough for Anne?) bespeak nothing more than the adoption of tentative scientific rhetoric by an amateur. And more generally this is emblematic of the whole problem of the concept of "uncertainty" in scientific rhetoric, which leaves the masses even further behind by pushing an alleged relativity of evidence well apart from the fields where such methodology is genuinely salubrious; and altogether this represents nothing more than the reification of methodology (hypothesis, tentative research, the "objective" demurral before finality) into a scientific prejudice, but now I'm quite far over your head, I realize.

The reason I posted "Aryan Agrarian", apart from it being unique and amusing, is that the author does a good job throwing all that's known and need be known into it, doesn't overplay the alleged "uncertainty" to which everyone's become accustomed to pay completely mindless lip service, and gives no attention at all to the wilder "theories" which've dogged IE (Atlantis, the Moon, Siberia, Scandinavia, lately OIT — vide John V. Day's book for a good précis of all the bullshit).

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=886481#post886481
 
Old November 26th, 2008 #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aistulf View Post
I don't necessarily believe in the Caucasus as the starting point; maybe only for the Indo-European branch of Aryans.
I get annoyed at niggers when they refer to me or any other Aryan as a Caucasion. Hell...I'm not Armenian or Georgian,maybe Nigger Dave or some other chimp lurking around this forum could explain it.
 
Old April 29th, 2009 #15
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Let's go back a lot further in time.

Having come from Afghanistan (theoretically) the ancestors of the Solutreans spread into Russia and then there was a massive volcanic eruption about 70 thousand years ago, which left about 7 individuals in Russia [EDIT: I read this idea, seven men in Russia some time ago, but I can't remember the source so this information seems to be what is currently acceptable: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1015670.stm
Europe's 10 founding 'fathers']

These then spread to Europe while increasing their population once more, reaching the Spain/France area maybe 30,000 years ago. They didn't all end up there, but just spread up in a belt along the edge of the ice.
There is a theory that these people mixed somewhat with Neanderthals along the way, enought to absorb some useful genes, making their brains grow larger. And this resulted in their creative ability, and generally made them into what can be called Aryans. Artistic ability is likely linked to Aryan "spirit".

The Solutreans' existence 20 thousand years ago must have been unknown to Herodotus. They were the FIRST people on Earth to do non-abstract artwork and created highly innovative weapons and tools which then spread from there. They were White and looked like Germanics. May as well call them pre-Germanics.

[ As the ice disappeared and the climate warmed up, some became Mediterranids]

They spread rapidly, since 20 thousand years ago they had alread reached America. The Medes would presumably have descended from them also, as did the Aryans of the Caucus and everywhere else. The initial ancient Egyptians were racially Solutrean.
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Old April 29th, 2009 #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilda View Post
Let's go back a lot further in time.

Having come from Afghanistan (theoretically) the ancestors of the Solutreans spread into Russia and then there was a massive volcanic eruption about 70 thousand years ago, which left about 7 individuals in Russia [EDIT: I read this idea, seven men in Russia some time ago, but I can't remember the source so this information seems to be what is currently acceptable: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1015670.stm
Europe's 10 founding 'fathers']
Actually such data doesn't suggest that a Founder effect occurred merely a bottleneck. It also doesn't suggest that there were only 7 individual men + 7 individual women surviving. Anyone who makes such conclusions hasn't thought about it very deeply.

I.e What I mean is that it is very doubtful that the White population was ever less than 10,000 people.
Quote:
There is a theory that these people mixed somewhat with Neanderthals along the way, enought to absorb some useful genes, making their brains grow larger.
1. This theory is poppycock
2. Neanderthals had smaller brains than Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Quote:
And this resulted in their creative ability, and generally made them into what can be called Aryans. Artistic ability is likely linked to Aryan "spirit".
Uhuh...So what is the Neanderthal haplogroup? N or M? *Yawn*


Quote:
The Solutreans' existence 20 thousand years ago must have been unknown to Herodotus. They were the FIRST people on Earth to do non-abstract artwork and created highly innovative weapons and tools which then spread from there. They were White and looked like Germanics.
And who has seen them in person? You do realize that it's meaningless to call all White people in the past pre-something since they were pre every nationality and ethnicity, duh? We only call proto-Germanics/Slavs/Balts that simply because we create arbitrary points at which language forms that is to say at one point Slavs and Germanics were the same people.

By the way sophisticated spear tips were found a couple of hundred thousand years ago in England and such as well as many other things showing that Europeans have lived in Europe for a very, very long time. It is probable that they at one point fled to the Caucas from the cold. It's likely that a lot of very ancient art work simply didn't survive.

Quote:
May as well call them pre-Germanics.
All White people are Germanic?

Last edited by psychologicalshock; April 29th, 2009 at 02:47 PM.
 
Old April 29th, 2009 #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Where Did the Aryans (the White Race) Originate?
What are the pre-Aryan European people (such as Basque, Estonian, Finnish, Etruscan, and pre Celtic Britons) considered if not white?
 
Old April 29th, 2009 #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cillian View Post
What are the pre-Aryan European people (such as Basque, Estonian, Finnish, Etruscan, and pre Celtic Britons) considered if not white?
Indeed the White "race" has existed beyond historical memory, it's hard to say how long ago it really originated.
 
Old May 2nd, 2009 #19
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Only in the minds of historians do a people suddenly emerge from one place.

Where did the Aryans originate? Northwestern Eurasia. Backwards and forwards, up and down. That we have to find a single "homeland" is founded in the erroneous assumption that there is a single homeland.
 
Old May 15th, 2009 #20
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Exclamation Aryan city discovered in Urals

"Ancient Aryan civilization achieved incredible technological progress 40 centuries ago

The Arkaim valley in the south of Ural was supposed to be flooded in 1987: local authorities were going to create a water reservoir there to irrigate droughty fields. However, scientists found strange circles in the center of the valley: the authorities gave archaeologists 12 months to explore the area. Scientists were shocked to find out that Arkaim was the same age as Egypt and Babylon, and a little older than Troy and Rome.

Archaeological excavations showed that the people, who inhabited Arkaim, represented one of the most ancient Indo-European civilizations, particularly the branch, which is referred to as the Aryan culture. Arkaim turned out to be not only a town, but also a temple and an astronomic observatory."

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/...14_Arkaim.html

"The 17th century date suggests that the settlement was about co-eval to, or just post-dating, the Indo-Aryan migration into South Asia and Mesopotamia (the Gandhara grave culture appearing in the Northern Pakistan from ca. 1600 BC, the Indo-European Mitanni rulers reached Anatolia before 1500 BC, both roughly 3,000 km removed from the Sintashta-Petrovka area), and that it was either an early Iranian culture, or an unknown branch of Indo-Iranian that did not survive into historical times."

Photos here

http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/Arkaim-4399/0/
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