#1 Scottish Independence/Referendum thread

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Zander

The issue of keeping the Pound as the currency of an independant Scotland is a major stumbling block for the SNP and they keep hinting((lying) that they want to keep it. The reality is Scotland would need to negotiate membership of the EU as a seperate country and one of the conditions is that we would have the failed Euro forced on us. The pro-Union parties (imo) should be hammering this point at every opportunity. Vote "Yes" lose the Pound.

Why can't Scotland just issue it's own money like they did for 700 years prior to the Union?

[Bev]

Scotland would have to reapply for the North-Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) membership if it decides to break away from Britain in the upcoming 2014 independence referendum, the organization has confirmed.


Membership would no longer apply to a separate statehood and Scotland will be “subject to the normal procedure” for membership after a yes vote in the referendum, NATO said in a written statement.

“A new state would not be a party to the North Atlantic treaty, and thus not a member of NATO.”

Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond, however, said he is “certain” NATO countries would accept an independent Scotland’s membership, despite its opposition to host Britain’s nuclear weapons.

Salmond said earlier that the decision by Scottish National Party (SNP) conference to axe British nuclear missiles from the Scottish soil was a non-negotiable issue, saying that suggestions to keep UK nuclear weapons based at HM Naval Base Clyde in western Scotland would be rejected.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/297725.html

[Karl Radl]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

Why can't Scotland just issue it's own money like they did for 700 years prior to the Union?

Because the independent Scottish currency would be worth shit and even then they'd probably just end up trying to join the EU and then the Euro. Scotland already has its own banknotes by the way [see here].

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Karl Radl

Because the independent Scottish currency would be worth shit and even then they'd probably just end up trying to join the EU and then the Euro. Scotland already has its own banknotes by the way [see here].

Currency is worth whatever it can be redeemed for.

[Bev]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

Currency is worth whatever it can be redeemed for.

....in that case you might as well use pyjama buttons.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

....in that case you might as well use pyjama buttons.

If everyone agreed to accept pajama buttons as currency, theoretically you could do that.

Currency is basically symbolic, its value is perceived rather than intrinsic.

[Bev]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

If everyone agreed to accept pajama buttons as currency, theoretically you could do that.

Currency is basically symbolic, its value is perceived rather than intrinsic.

I know. Its "value" doesn't actually exist - but I'm not getting into this again because it confuses most people.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

I know. Its "value" doesn't actually exist - but I'm not getting into this again because it confuses most people.

That being said, there's no real reason to prevent the Scots pund from being minted again.

[Bev]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

That being said, there's no real reason to prevent the Scots pund from being minted again.

True in theory, but independence would still mean EU membership and as Zander said, that means having the Euro foisted on them.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

True in theory, but independence would still mean EU membership and as Zander said, that means having the Euro foisted on them.

Why would it necessarily mean EU membership? The Scots could vote to stand alone.

[Bev]

Originally Posted by Steven L. Akins

Why would it necessarily mean EU membership? The Scots could vote to stand alone.

Not if Salmond had a say in it. He's very much in love with the EU.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

Not if Salmond had a say in it. He's very much in love with the EU.

Well, you know why.....



It's in his blood.

[Bev]

That doesn't prove anything! It's possible he's jewish (or has distant ancestry) but it's not proof he's jewish!

The precise location for the origin of Haplogroup J is not known, but its prominence in the Near East/West Asia and the Middle East/Central Asia indicates that it likely arose in one of these regions. It is closely associated with the Fertile Crescent; an area spanning the Nile and Tigris/Euphrates River systems, with the Levant (present day Lebanon) in between. This region has encompassed many early cultures and empires from the Stone Age (Neolithic) to the Iron Age and has also been dubbed the ‘Cradle of Civilization’. Societies, dynasties and empires in this broad region include the Sumerian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Phoenician and Persian. Haplogroup J is also particularly abundant in Anatolia (present day Turkey) and the Y-chromosome diversity observed here suggests that this area is a possible source of this clade. Owing to these strategic locations, Y-DNA Haplogroup J is common on three continents: Asia, Europe and Africa.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/j2-arab

And in case you are interested, I am Shia muslim from the South of Lebanon and recently did a DNA test any my haplogroup is also J2, which I'm sure will come as a surprise to you. My family has been in the South for several hundred years. I don't know what it means that I'm J2 and Shia but I did the test as I was sure that things are not as black and white as some of these websites and ignorant information like to portray.

I don't care if it makes me Arab/not Arab, Phoenician or anything else. I am Lebanese and that is enough for me.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/ira...CV81JC2MT1A/p5

J1 is the only Semitic Haplogroup
recognized by geneticists. It appears
heavily in Ethiopia,Yemen and Arabia.
It is also common amongst Bedouins.
STR markers are used to specify
lineages within a specific haplogroup.
The Kohenim which are found within
the Buba clan of the Lemba tribe of South
Africa, the descendants of Muhammad
(Ishmael) and the Solomonic Amhara
of Ethiopia are all defined by specific
STR Markers within the J1 Haplogroup.

Note: J2 is not Semitic but
Phoenician, which was a
mixture of Semitic and Hamitic.
Some Israelite STR markers
were identified in J2 such as
a limited amount of Kohenim.
However J2 is not Semitic
and should not be confused
or combined with J1. J2
is non-existent in Ethiopia.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/...-al-sulaimani/

We already know that haplogroup J2b-M12 was associated with Neolithic Greece (ca. 8500 - 4300 BCE) A substantial presence of J2b is found in the Balkans and neighboring parts of Greece in the West, and in both tribal and caste populations of the Indian subcontinent to the East. The high variance of J2b2 in South Asia indicates a probable pre-Neolithic migration.


Newer study suggests:

Lately, J2 (M172) lineage has been studies in India in detail. Its study in India shows that its frequency is 19% in Dravidian speaking castes, and only 11% in Aryan speaking castes.Among the tribes, its frequency is 11%.Hence its arrival through northwest Indian corridor into India is ruled out. Because it was found that in the northwest India its frequency is less than that in south Indian caste population. Its good presence in all segments of Indian society proves that either this haplogroup originated in India, or this haplogroup is fixed from very old days in India, possibly since Pleistocene, and not just 8,000 years back.

Sengupta and colleagues (2006) found that age of J2b (M12), which is a branch of J2, is about 17,600 years to 10,000 years (mean age 13,800 years) in India. On the other hand thesame figures for Europe for J2 were only 8,700 years and 4,300 years (mean 6,500 years). That means age of J2b, a descendant of J2, in West Asia and Europe is further less than 6500years. The date of J2b expansion in India is thus much before the supposed date of onset of farming into India. This is enough evidence to suggest that J2 and J2b originated in India.

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...roup-J2%28b%29

[andy]

salmond looks no more jewish than the nonce akins

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by andy

salmond looks no more jewish than the nonce akins

The Salmond family in Scotland has J-haplotype Y-DNA:


The Akins family has R1b Y-DNA:


Draw your own conclusions:

[Bev]

....but you do know that j2 is not exclusively jewish, don't you?

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

....but you do know that j2 is not exclusively jewish, don't you?

It's common to other Semitic peoples as well - Arabs, Lebanese, etc. The main difference between whom is cultural/religious - not genetic/racial. They are all Afro-Asiatic mongrels of the same Levantine stock.

It's the fact that Wee Eck's surname is Salmond, together with that J haplotype Y-DNA his ancestors have, that leads me to conclude his ancestry is Jewish rather than Phoenician.

[Bev]

Ah, that's OK then. I thought you had it in your head that j2 always = jewish. I do think it's possible (in my opinion) that he does have jewish ancestry, possibly without even knowing it, rather than a coverup by claiming to be church of Scotland or whatever it was he is said to be in.

[Steven L. Akins]

Originally Posted by Bev

Ah, that's OK then. I thought you had it in your head that j2 always = jewish. I do think it's possible (in my opinion) that he does have jewish ancestry, possibly without even knowing it, rather than a coverup by claiming to be church of Scotland or whatever it was he is said to be in.

It's possible to be a Jew and to not practice or have any knowledge of the native religion of the Jews.

[Bobby Bandanza]

Alba gu bràth!