Telegony - Page 5

Claud Oreck · August 25th, 2008

the movie, Jurassic Park, it's all based on something even more unlikely than Telegony. Remember, the scene were the owner says, 'oh, well the Dinosaurs are all female'. Well, evolution finds a way. Some of the lizards turn into males.

This actually happens in some Fish species I believe. Not sure.

Claud Oreck · August 25th, 2008

If a bitch has already had a baby with some black guy, who the fuck cares what her next white baby looks like? I think it's a little too late for her.

any woman who doesn't scrub out her pussy thoroughly after being VIOLENTLY raped against her will is stupid. Take the day after pill, and abort it immediately.

Dan_O · August 25th, 2008

I used to believe in telegony, but in this fucked up day and age, I have seen too many of these examples. The mudshark has a very white looking boy, after shitting out two mongrels.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...on-Davies.html

Jett Rink · August 25th, 2008

IF you read that story, you will see that she had two miscarriages prior, her body was actually rejecting the White embryo as an alien substance that her immune system attacked.

Art Cast · August 25th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

IF you read that story, you will see that she had two miscarriages prior, her body was actually rejecting the White embryo as an alien substance that her immune system attacked.

Not only would I like to see your,so far unprovided,Doctor of Pediatrics diploma,I would also like to see the scientific study which caused you to arrive at the above conclusion.

psychologicalshock · August 25th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claud Oreck

the movie, Jurassic Park, it's all based on something even more unlikely than Telegony. Remember, the scene were the owner says, 'oh, well the Dinosaurs are all female'. Well, evolution finds a way. Some of the lizards turn into males.

This actually happens in some Fish species I believe. Not sure.

It's called asexual reproduction and it is more ancient than sexual reproduction.
http://www.thelondonpaper.com/cs/Sat...icleController

If you mean fish that are female until a biological signal tells their hormones to become male then that's not all that surprising considering how many other things evolution has done. It likely extends to lizards also.

Dan_O · August 25th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

IF you read that story, you will see that she had two miscarriages prior, her body was actually rejecting the White embryo as an alien substance that her immune system attacked.

You may be right. I am nor scientist, or animal breeder. But I made damn sure my wife and her family are just as racist as I before I married her.

I say take no chances.

Art Cast · August 25th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychologicalshock

It's called asexual reproduction and it is more ancient than sexual reproduction.
http://www.thelondonpaper.com/cs/Sat...icleController

If you mean fish that are female until a biological signal tells their hormones to become male then that's not all that surprising considering how many other things evolution has done. It likely extends to lizards also.

Lots of lizards.So far,however, only a few species of the more evolutionarily advanced snakes.

Quote:

Kryptolebias marmoratus (Rivulus marmoratus till 2004, order Cyprinodontoformes; family Rivulidae) is the only known self-fertilizing hermaphrodite vertebrate.

April · August 25th, 2008

Hey Jett, that Hair Club for Men did wonders for your appearance. ( as per your avatar)

Jett Rink · August 25th, 2008

(So you noticed

)

Dan_O · August 25th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

(So you noticed

)

No shit, I have to laugh every time I see that.

Lars Redoubt · May 29th, 2009

Interesting discussion about telegony. I have a feeling that this is a very sensitive subject for many:

“Spencer tells that he learnt from Professor Flint that as a result of a research conducted in America it turned out that a white woman who once had a sexual intercourse with a black man would in the future have babies looking a little bit like Afro-Americans even if she marries a white man and he would be her only sexual partner.”

--------------------

http://english.pravda.ru/science/hea...136-telegony-0

Woman’s first partner may become genetic father of all her kids, telegony says

27.06.2007

Source: Pravda.Ru

Recently, the phenomenon of telegony has become really popular as propagation of women’s faithfulness and virginity. It is quite OK to speak about telegony as the philosophy of morals. But for some reason people speak about telegony in connection with genetics. Why so ?

The telegony idea gained much popularity among those who supported segregation between blacks and whites, and was said to be particularly popular among the circles connected to the Ku-Klux-Klan.

One of the ardent advocates of telegony, candidate of historical sciences Valery Bochkarev says that if a woman has had lots of sexual contacts with various men before her first childbirth she then has her chromosome chain absolutely polluted. And when she gets pregnant from her husband and gives birth to her child it is hardly likely that this baby will be purely the man’s one in the genetic point of view. In a word, the expert means that girls’ virginity is an absolutely moral and genetic notion. He adds that a virgin has pure genetic, and this fact in its turn indicates that elder women in her family are carefully watching her moral and behavior.

The Big Soviet Encyclopedia describes telegony as “an assumed effect of typical characteristics of a man who copulated with a woman upon the woman’s future children that she may have with other men”. The phenomenon of telegony was discovered in the first quarter of the 19th century. Accurate genetic experiments conducted by many researchers at the end of the 19th century did not prove that the phenomenon really existed.

The definition may sound shocking for many. Is telegony really connected with woman’s faithfulness? Let us assume that all previous sexual contacts have an effect upon all the subsequent ones. At that we should mind that telegony is no science it is just a law of biology.

The hypothesis saying that telegony actually existed was first stated at the end of the 19th century. At that time it said that the result of the previous pregnancy would determine all the subsequent ones. So, it sounds very much like a scientific hypothesis indeed. French biologist and philosopher Felix Le Dantec in his work “Individual Evolution, Heredity and Neo-Darwinists” (1899) mentions several facts that demonstrate telegony. But the evidence was quite pseudo-scientific even for that epoch. The author gave two examples with animals and one for humans.

Le Dantec wrote that some farmer told him that once his swine copulated with a boar and their pigs absolutely resembled the father in color. But when the same swine copulated with another boar some pigs of the second farrow still resembled the color of the male pig the swine had copulated first.

He also wrote about Lord Morton who first interbred a mare and a zebra and got a hybrid of horse and zebra. Next time he interbred the same mare with a horse. As a result of the second copulation the lord still got a colt that had lines resembling those of a zebra.

The example of telegony with humans given by Le Dantec sound somewhat incredible. He wrote: “Spencer tells that he learnt from Professor Flint that as a result of a research conducted in America it turned out that a white woman who once had a sexual intercourse with a black man would in the future have babies looking a little bit like Afro-Americans even if she marries a white man and he would be her only sexual partner.”

The above hypotheses required experimental application for researchers to understand if it actually existed or not. They started interbreeding horses first with zebras and then with horses and studied peculiarities of their offspring. Researchers also attempted to see telegony by interbreeding rabbits, guinea-pigs, mice and flies. But they failed to witness anything that could be called telegony. As no experimental confirmation of the hypothesis could be obtained it was declared quasi-biological and was never mentioned in the biological society since that moment.

In a word, the notion ‘telegony’ was never used or applied until the end of the 20th century.

It was in the end of the 20th century in Russia’s Orthodox circles that the idea of telegony sprang up again. In 2004, a book “Virginity and telegony. The Orthodox church and modern science of genetic inversions” came out.

This book goes even further than the previous publications pertaining to telegony. Earlier, it was said that previous copulations will have an effect upon the subsequent ones. But the authors of the new book insist that only a woman’s first sexual partner will have a tremendous impact upon all babies that the woman may have with other men. The book says that a man who deflowers a woman becomes some kind of a genetic father of her prospective children. It sounds absolute nonsense from the biological point of view. The publication gives the same examples proving that telegony exists that Le Dantec gave earlier but mentions them awfully exaggerated or even distorted.

To scare readers and particularly women the new book tells about a woman who gave birth to a black baby through telegony (it is said that she some time ago had had a sexual contact with a black man, and that affected her future generation). To tell the truth, this book about telegony is a compilation of scary and incredible stories invented by the authors to make women be very careful about their sexual contacts. It is highly likely that the Orthodox church arrived at an idea to employ telegony to make the parish not to break one of the Ten Commandments that prohibits adultery.

Medportal
Translated by Maria Gousseva
Pravda.ru

Dan_O · May 29th, 2009

I don't buy it. So far the only proof is "well this farmer said his pig fucked one pig than the other and the spawn looks like the fucking former." It's always what some fucking farmer says.

Axel Faaborg · May 29th, 2009

This should be simple enough to test with dogs. However, I'm not about to risk my German Shepherd bitch's AKC pedigree by breeding her with some Cocker Spaniel or whatever before I breed her with the Shepherd male we already have lined up.

I may test this in the future with another dog that isn't fully papered, though. A light colored dog mated with a dark colored one, then mated again with a light colored one should provide a good test of the hypothesis. It would take at least a year for the results though, as bitches only go in heat twice a year.

April · May 30th, 2009

Thoroughbred horses have to have DNA parenthood testing to be registered with the Jockey club and raced. Most breeders use a variety of studs over a mares reproductive lifetime. If Telegony were true then the DNA tests of the latter foals would show DNA from the first stallion that the mare foaled from.

I would think that if a White woman had a black child, that would be enough to keep any sane White man away from her. If you are raising some black kid from your wife's past, you have much more to worry about...

Sándor Petőfi · May 30th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by April

If Telegony were true then the DNA tests of the latter foals would show DNA from the first stallion that the mare foaled from.

Wrong. Telegony depends upon the alteration of the genetic material of the mother, presumably of her gametes through dead spermatozoa or through dead genetic material from the child itself, and this would not show up in a test of the foals paternity, in particular if this were done through comparison of the Y chromosome.

psychologicalshock · May 30th, 2009

DNA testing on the Y chromosome isn't deep enough to detect changes. Telogony I think might be a possibility because for example paternal mtDNA can in fact be introduced to a child through an odd process of the sperms tail entering during fertilization, thus a person would come out to actually have his FATHER's mtDNA.

In the past I was a bit too quick to judge - biology has a lot of absurd things happening in it that we'd never imagine.

Dan_O · May 30th, 2009

Ask your mom if telegony is real. Tell her you want pictures AND DNA swabs of everyone she's fucked. Once you find out who your mom fucked, swab him and yourself. Then post the results.

This has to be the dumbest thread on vnn. Maybe we can discuss the "moon landings" some more.

Dan_O · May 30th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sándor Petőfi

Wrong. Telegony depends upon the alteration of the genetic material of the mother, presumably of her gametes through dead spermatozoa or through dead genetic material from the child itself, and this would not show up in a test of the foals paternity, in particular if this were done through comparison of the Y chromosome.

Tell that to forensic scientists.

psychologicalshock · May 30th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_O

Ask your mom if telegony is real. Tell her you want pictures AND DNA swabs of everyone she's fucked. Once you find out who your mom fucked, swab him and yourself. Then post the results.

This has to be the dumbest thread on vnn. Maybe we can discuss the "moon landings" some more.

Do you understand that the method you propose would prove nothing? The DNA tests are limited to sexual DNA chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA, that is to say the actual DNA will not be represented in the test meaning that if a change occurs there then the test you propose will not show that fact so no that doesn't conclusively prove anything. Telogony is unlikely, sure, but there are many other unlikely events that DO happen such as inheriting your father's mtDNA, who would have thought that's possible?

As it is Telogony is an idea worth investigating further, even if it is wrong people will still gain knowledge and if it is right it will be a sensational break through in our ideas of sexual reproduction and evolution. So either way there is something to gain from examining the idea.

May 29th, 2009	#92
Lars Redoubt Thomsonist-Frenzian Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Svithiod. Posts: 2,142	Interesting discussion about telegony. I have a feeling that this is a very sensitive subject for many: “Spencer tells that he learnt from Professor Flint that as a result of a research conducted in America it turned out that a white woman who once had a sexual intercourse with a black man would in the future have babies looking a little bit like Afro-Americans even if she marries a white man and he would be her only sexual partner.” -------------------- http://english.pravda.ru/science/hea...136-telegony-0 Woman’s first partner may become genetic father of all her kids, telegony says 27.06.2007 Source: Pravda.Ru Recently, the phenomenon of telegony has become really popular as propagation of women’s faithfulness and virginity. It is quite OK to speak about telegony as the philosophy of morals. But for some reason people speak about telegony in connection with genetics. Why so ? The telegony idea gained much popularity among those who supported segregation between blacks and whites, and was said to be particularly popular among the circles connected to the Ku-Klux-Klan. One of the ardent advocates of telegony, candidate of historical sciences Valery Bochkarev says that if a woman has had lots of sexual contacts with various men before her first childbirth she then has her chromosome chain absolutely polluted. And when she gets pregnant from her husband and gives birth to her child it is hardly likely that this baby will be purely the man’s one in the genetic point of view. In a word, the expert means that girls’ virginity is an absolutely moral and genetic notion. He adds that a virgin has pure genetic, and this fact in its turn indicates that elder women in her family are carefully watching her moral and behavior. The Big Soviet Encyclopedia describes telegony as “an assumed effect of typical characteristics of a man who copulated with a woman upon the woman’s future children that she may have with other men”. The phenomenon of telegony was discovered in the first quarter of the 19th century. Accurate genetic experiments conducted by many researchers at the end of the 19th century did not prove that the phenomenon really existed. The definition may sound shocking for many. Is telegony really connected with woman’s faithfulness? Let us assume that all previous sexual contacts have an effect upon all the subsequent ones. At that we should mind that telegony is no science it is just a law of biology. The hypothesis saying that telegony actually existed was first stated at the end of the 19th century. At that time it said that the result of the previous pregnancy would determine all the subsequent ones. So, it sounds very much like a scientific hypothesis indeed. French biologist and philosopher Felix Le Dantec in his work “Individual Evolution, Heredity and Neo-Darwinists” (1899) mentions several facts that demonstrate telegony. But the evidence was quite pseudo-scientific even for that epoch. The author gave two examples with animals and one for humans. Le Dantec wrote that some farmer told him that once his swine copulated with a boar and their pigs absolutely resembled the father in color. But when the same swine copulated with another boar some pigs of the second farrow still resembled the color of the male pig the swine had copulated first. He also wrote about Lord Morton who first interbred a mare and a zebra and got a hybrid of horse and zebra. Next time he interbred the same mare with a horse. As a result of the second copulation the lord still got a colt that had lines resembling those of a zebra. The example of telegony with humans given by Le Dantec sound somewhat incredible. He wrote: “Spencer tells that he learnt from Professor Flint that as a result of a research conducted in America it turned out that a white woman who once had a sexual intercourse with a black man would in the future have babies looking a little bit like Afro-Americans even if she marries a white man and he would be her only sexual partner.” The above hypotheses required experimental application for researchers to understand if it actually existed or not. They started interbreeding horses first with zebras and then with horses and studied peculiarities of their offspring. Researchers also attempted to see telegony by interbreeding rabbits, guinea-pigs, mice and flies. But they failed to witness anything that could be called telegony. As no experimental confirmation of the hypothesis could be obtained it was declared quasi-biological and was never mentioned in the biological society since that moment. In a word, the notion ‘telegony’ was never used or applied until the end of the 20th century. It was in the end of the 20th century in Russia’s Orthodox circles that the idea of telegony sprang up again. In 2004, a book “Virginity and telegony. The Orthodox church and modern science of genetic inversions” came out. This book goes even further than the previous publications pertaining to telegony. Earlier, it was said that previous copulations will have an effect upon the subsequent ones. But the authors of the new book insist that only a woman’s first sexual partner will have a tremendous impact upon all babies that the woman may have with other men. The book says that a man who deflowers a woman becomes some kind of a genetic father of her prospective children. It sounds absolute nonsense from the biological point of view. The publication gives the same examples proving that telegony exists that Le Dantec gave earlier but mentions them awfully exaggerated or even distorted. To scare readers and particularly women the new book tells about a woman who gave birth to a black baby through telegony (it is said that she some time ago had had a sexual contact with a black man, and that affected her future generation). To tell the truth, this book about telegony is a compilation of scary and incredible stories invented by the authors to make women be very careful about their sexual contacts. It is highly likely that the Orthodox church arrived at an idea to employ telegony to make the parish not to break one of the Ten Commandments that prohibits adultery. Medportal Translated by Maria Gousseva Pravda.ru __________________ Ek trui a matt minn ok megin. DOWZ! ORION! 88! Visit Robert Frenz' FAEM: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/faem/

May 30th, 2009	#95
April Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montana Posts: 1,763	Thoroughbred horses have to have DNA parenthood testing to be registered with the Jockey club and raced. Most breeders use a variety of studs over a mares reproductive lifetime. If Telegony were true then the DNA tests of the latter foals would show DNA from the first stallion that the mare foaled from. I would think that if a White woman had a black child, that would be enough to keep any sane White man away from her. If you are raising some black kid from your wife's past, you have much more to worry about... __________________ Come Home to the Pacific Northwest http://kalispellple.blogspot.com/

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August 25th, 2008	#81
Claud Oreck Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 301	the movie, Jurassic Park, it's all based on something even more unlikely than Telegony. Remember, the scene were the owner says, 'oh, well the Dinosaurs are all female'. Well, evolution finds a way. Some of the lizards turn into males. This actually happens in some Fish species I believe. Not sure.

August 25th, 2008	#83
Dan_O Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: the gym Posts: 887	I used to believe in telegony, but in this fucked up day and age, I have seen too many of these examples. The mudshark has a very white looking boy, after shitting out two mongrels. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...on-Davies.html

August 25th, 2008	#84
Jett Rink Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Squaresville Posts: 7,502	IF you read that story, you will see that she had two miscarriages prior, her body was actually rejecting the White embryo as an alien substance that her immune system attacked.

August 25th, 2008	#90
Jett Rink Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Squaresville Posts: 7,502	(So you noticed )

May 29th, 2009	#94
Axel Faaborg Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,110	This should be simple enough to test with dogs. However, I'm not about to risk my German Shepherd bitch's AKC pedigree by breeding her with some Cocker Spaniel or whatever before I breed her with the Shepherd male we already have lined up. I may test this in the future with another dog that isn't fully papered, though. A light colored dog mated with a dark colored one, then mated again with a light colored one should provide a good test of the hypothesis. It would take at least a year for the results though, as bitches only go in heat twice a year.

May 30th, 2009	#97
psychologicalshock Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7,046	DNA testing on the Y chromosome isn't deep enough to detect changes. Telogony I think might be a possibility because for example paternal mtDNA can in fact be introduced to a child through an odd process of the sperms tail entering during fertilization, thus a person would come out to actually have his FATHER's mtDNA. In the past I was a bit too quick to judge - biology has a lot of absurd things happening in it that we'd never imagine.