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June 24th, 2008 | #201 |
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Please notice that Roberta didn't present the same 12 photos in her last round of drivel as was presented in my previous recap.
So Roberta, please tell us what we are looking at in the SAME 12 photos allegedly from Treblinka that you see in my last post. They are all numbered, so present your explanations for those 12 photos ONLY and in the order that you see them in - 1 -12. How hard should that be Roberta? (No wonder Roberta is called the dullest of the dull.) |
June 24th, 2008 | #202 |
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Robert:
"Then how did they manage to burn to ash, by the same method (even with the disadvantage that they had less room under the grid for placing flammable substances there than they had at the AR camps) the 6,865 victims of the Dresden bombing on 13/14 February 1945 that were burned to ashes on the Altmarkt, according to the sources quoted in my article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...rather_18.html ? There’s even a photo showing ashes in front of the burning grid at Dresden:" That photo, for those who don't have their magic glasses on, shows a pile of crushed BONE, interspersed with ash. A blind man can see the bones. "Burnt to ashes" is the lie that Roberta has to cling to to keep her fantasy alive in her mentally ill / retarded head. Roberta: "Ah, and even if you were right about the bones" "Even if I were right?" LOL!!! Even if you crush bone into very small pieces, it's still bone, not ash. Prove the existence of one pound of crushed bone or one single tooth that was found at Belzec Roberta. Please notice that Godzieszewski nor the coroner never once mentioned crushed bone, or the presence of a single tooth. (Out of an alleged 18 -24 million!) And of course the answer lies in the alleged "huge mass graves" themselves. All Roberta has to do to prove that the remains of 600,000 to 800,000 jews are buried in Belzec, is to show us the alleged "huge mass graves." Better yet Roberta, how about you just proving the existence of the largest of all the alleged "huge mass graves" of Belzec? Can you prove that grave #10, the grave that allegedly contains 10 % of the total volume of the alleged "huge mass graves" exists? I'll address that in my next post. And Roberta's claim / photos allegedly "proving" that a body can be "incinerated" and not have it's hair burnt off is so laughable that I don't even know what to say other than - just what part of "incineration" do you not understand Roberta? How can a cremation process that is worthy of its name not be burn the hair of the cremated individual? |
June 24th, 2008 | #203 |
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OK Roberta, let's try and keep things as simple as possible so others can follow along with what exactly it is you're going to attemt to show us here.
What I want you to present of course is the physical evidence that you have for the "huge mass graves" of Belzec allegedly found by the three "investigations" that I have listed. But I think we can simplify the issue even more. As you know, kola / O'Neil list "33 huge mass graves" allegedly located at Belzec, so rather than talk about all three investigations or all 33 of kolas alleged graves, let's just talk about one - the largest of all the alleged 33. After all, if you can't prove the existence of the largest of the alleged "33 huge mass graves," you certainly can't prove the existence of all 33 of them - correct? So, to start, let's agree on what is the largest of the alleged "33 huge mass graves." Now by "largest" I mean the grave that allegedly contains the most bodies / remains. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the largest in square meter volume, but it most likely is. The typical listing of the "33 huge mass graves" that I'm aware of has #10 listed as the largest of all the alleged "huge mass graves" and lists its square meter volume as being - 2,100 m3. Do you agree with this Roberta? Would you also say that this 2,100 m3 mass grave holds the largest number of alleged human remains, both cremated / crushed remains and corpses in a "wax-fat transformation?" And if you agree with that also, then would you please tell us what the total estimated number of human remains are claimed to allegedly be in said grave? OK Roberta, again, what grave holds the largest number of alleged human remains - what # has been given to that grave? What is the volume in m3 of said grave and what is the total number of alleged remains in said grave. Pretty simple, huh? I'm guessing that your answer will be: Grave # 10,- 2,100 m3,- ??? # of remains. |
June 24th, 2008 | #204 |
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BTW Roberta, I did miss another Treblinka photo. Call this one #13:
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg |
June 25th, 2008 | #205 | ||||||
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June 25th, 2008 | #206 | |||||||||
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But for now, on to another of Gerdes’ repetitive "photos only" recaps (he seems to seriously expect people to accept that physical evidence is the only evidence that matters and photographic records are the only relevant records of that evidence) and more of Gerdes’ equally boring "we’re still waiting" yells for further photographs. Quote:
What we have seen is not the photographic documentation of the physical evidence, by the way. It is just the photographic documentation that currently happens to be available online, unless I missed something. Gerdes seems to believe that what is not on the internet does not exist. And the number of Jews killed at Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka was more like 1,480,000 than 2,040,000, as I have also pointed out several times. But then, bigger numbers make better straw-men, don’t they, Gerdes? Quote:
The following photographs of Sobibor I have included in my record as illustrations of the physical evidence: 1. (Articial) teeth http://www.undersobibor.org/excavation09.jpg 2. A mound of the ashes of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5938_1_web.jpg 3. A mound of the remains of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5964_1_web.jpg 4. A glass display case containing ashes and bones of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5968_1_web.jpg 5. Hair, bones and ashes found on the grounds of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6238_1_web.jpg 6 Hair, bones and ashes in the area of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6239_1_web.jpg Captions are not mine but from the sources featuring these photos, i.e. the Sobibor Archeological Project ( http://www.undersobibor.org/ ) for photo # 1 and the Archives of the Ghetto Fighters House ( http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfheng.htm ) for photos 2 to 6. Quote:
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One thing I’d like to see, though, is the number of the page in Denying History where Shermer supposedly claimed to have conducted a firsthand investigation of/research in the Sobibor camp and namely reviewed the physical evidence that a certain number of Jews were killed there. Not because I care about what Shermer did or not, but because my friend Gerdes seems to be putting words in this author’s mouth, one of his favorite tricks. Quote:
And I’m still looking forward to Gerdes’ explanation why the following descriptions of the Chelmno physical evidence, quoted in my post # 182 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=182, should be considered mere allegations and not evidentiary documentation of the physical evidence at Chelmno : 1. The quote from Juliet Golden’s article in Archeology magazine that Gerdes stupidly provided in Topix post # 648 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p32#c648 : Quote:
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3. Letter by Willy Just to Walter Rauff dated 5 June 1942, regarding gas van operations at Chelmno extermination camp: http://www.holocaust-history.org/194...-spezialwagen/ 4. Letter by Gauleiter Arthur Greiser to Himmler dated 1 May 1942, mentioning the “special treatment” of 100,000 Jews from his district about to be completed, and requesting permission to treat 35,000 Poles with open tuberculosis in the same manner: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...r-greiser.html 5. Further documents about the murderous purpose of "Sonderkommando Lange": http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...urpose-of.html 6. Eyewitness testimonies about the use of gas vans at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38440 7. Excerpt from the judgment at the trial against former members of the Chelmno staff before District Court of Bonn, German Federal Republic, mentioning the documentary evidence used by the court to establish the number of people killed at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38440 So here we have 7 exhibits of evidence, or collections/assessments of such exhibits, that lying coward Greg "Photos Only" Gerdes either has unreasonably dismissed as mere allegations (numbers 1 and 2) or not even said a word about because he knows he has nothing to say (numbers 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7). Quote:
The rest of Gerdes’ posts # 198 and # 200 seems to be copy-and-paste of crap I already replied to in my posts # 181, and as I don’t like to repeat myself (unlike Gerdes, the repetitive bore), I refer our readers to what I wrote in that post. The link is http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=181 . |
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June 25th, 2008 | #207 | |
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How hard should that be Roberta? (No wonder Roberta is called the dullest of the dull.)[/quote] I’m not here to accommodate Gerdes’ silly requests, therefore didn’t give a fuck about this one either and still don’t. So I’ll just repeat the list included in my post # 195, this time with numbers instead of a), b) c) and so. Gerdes may enjoy himself pointing out the discrepancies between our lists (there must be some, as his list is shorter). Small things worry the minds of small people like Gerdes. These photos were taken by Jacob Byk/Byck, a member of the investigation commission headed by examining judge Lukaszkiewicz, between 6 and 13 November 1945: 1. Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg 2. Heaps of ashes on the grounds of the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5809_1_web.jpg These photos look like they were taken with the same camera as the two above, hence by the same photographer: 3. Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5807_1_web.jpg 4. Human skeletal remains in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg 5. A heap of ashes in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg (Photos b) and e) are captioned «TURNED UP EARTH» on the ARC site under http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html ) 6. HUMAN REMNANTS AND BELONGINGS #1 The photo was taken in 1945. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg 7. HUMAN REMNANTS AND BELONGINGS #2 The photo was taken in 1945. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp43.jpg 8. HUMAN REMNANTS AND BELONGINGS #3 The photo was taken in 1945. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp42.jpg These photos look like they have not been taken with the same camera, but as they are captioned as having been taken in 1945 (the Soviet investigation was in 1944) it is possible that they are low-quality copies of photos from the aforementioned site Polish investigation, a further indication in this sense being the presence of civilians and not Red Army soldiers on the last photo of this list: 9. DITCH The photo was taken in 1945. Remnants of wooden posts in the ditch. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp46.jpg 10. SW CORNER The photo was taken in 1945. The ground is covered with broken china and other remnants of diches. Here was the sorting place. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp47.jpg 11. HOLES #1 The photo was taken in 1945. Holes and remnants of human bones, unearthed in course of the period when people searched for gold and valuables. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp48.jpg 12. HOLES #2 The photo was taken in 1945, at the former gas chambers site. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp49.jpg 13. HOLES #3 The photo was taken in 1945, at the former gas chambers site http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp50.jpg 14. INSPECTING A MASS GRAVE The photo was taken in 1945. Investigation team, inspecting a mass grave http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg[/quote] 15. Bones, pieces of clothes and thousands of personal belongings of the victims were digged out by the local population when they searched for valuables. The photo was taken in 1945. http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg |
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June 25th, 2008 | #208 | ||||||||||
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And why would all teeth have survived a) incineration and b) subsequent crushing of the remains? I’m sure that some did, hence the findings described by investigators. As to supposed absence of crushed bone and teeth in Godzieszewski’s or the coroner’s report, it seems that Gerdes cannot read. The examining judge’s and the coroner’s report once again, with my emphases on the parts mentioning bone fragments or teeth artificial or natural: Quote:
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June 25th, 2008 | #209 | |||
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June 25th, 2008 | #210 | |
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... Jews and other Poles were first taken to the castle, where they were gathered in groups and put onto trucks, supposedly for transport. Once they were in the trucks the doors were sealed and the exhaust was pumped into the truck cabin, killing all the occupants during the drive to the forest area. In a 2003 article in Archaeology magazine author Krzysztof Gorczycae described the excavations at Chelmno: "It’s one thing to hear about the crematory, it’s another to stand inside an enormous pit that is filled with human bones." Rabbi Chaim Baruch Gluck (right) and assistant examine new excavations at Chelmno with local official (facing rear). During a cursory search we saw many bone fragments easily visible on the surface of the site. We then went to the forest area, driving along the same route on which the Nazis took their victims. The forest area also has two sections. One is a beautiful area covered with flowers, with a sign in Polish commemorating the non-Jews who were killed there. In the back is a Jewish monument and a gate leading to the area where the crematoria were and where the remains were dumped into large pits. The surrounding area is covered with grayish-to-black earth where the ashes were mixed with the earth and after many years are coming to the surface. What lay before us was a large field of open excavations – some over a hundred feet long. Many of them had protective black plastic sheeting. Some looked old, with grass growing in the pits, but many looked almost brand new. The mayor was in shock and speechless, as were we. We went from pit to pit, and in some we found easily recognizable human remains such as bone fragments and even a knuckle joint. While we were at Chelmno we called Rabbi Michael Schudrich in Warsaw and made plans to go directly to see him and show him the video and photographic evidence from Chelmno. Rabbi Shlesinger of London was also contacted, as he is considered one of the leading experts on cemeteries and Jewish law. In Warsaw, Rabbi Shudrich told us, "We are now only beginning to understand the bestiality of the Nazi regime. We are now waking up to the fact that there are still a lot of things that have to be done to preserve the dignity and holiness of the remains of the victims. The Polish government is a lot more sensitive to the issue of the Holocaust and cemeteries, and has passed laws to protect these sites, but not everyone knows or respects these laws. "We have to find out what went wrong here and how to fix it so that it won’t occur in another place at another time." Rabbi Gluck said that after having seen Chelmno with his own eyes he was still in shock, and that he would do everything possible in his capacity as chief rabbi of Galicia and as a member of the Presidential Commission for Preservation of American Heritage Abroad to help correct the situation and ensure that mass graves and Holocaust sites are not disturbed in the future. All of your impressive verbiage amounts to circumlocution as this is the foundation of your argument. Your standards of documentation and physical evidence are emotional and wholly Jewish: Krzysztof Gorczycae described the excavations at Chelmno: "It’s one thing to hear about the crematory, it’s another to stand inside an enormous pit that is filled with human bones." This is more of the same neurotic titillation that works so well on the Jew psyche; Gorczycae is either a blithering idiot who somehow missed a photo opportunity or he understands Jewish credulity; I'm for the latter. Note the wise rabbi's concern that genuine investigation will destroy the legend. Jews will use their power to supervise and disseminate the meaning of future investigations. Your "not that it matters" notion that all of the prosecuting evidence is from Jews cannot be reconciled with your claim to being a proud German. Your mannerisms are those of a Jew. |
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June 25th, 2008 | #211 | |
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Last edited by EireannGoddess; June 25th, 2008 at 10:56 AM. |
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June 25th, 2008 | #212 |
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OK, boiling this down even further...
* * * * * The following is all the photographic documentation there is of the alleged archeological / forensic investigations allegedly conducted at the alleged industrial killing centers of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), a total of 2,040,000 jews were killed and buried in “huge mass graves” at said sites. * Sobibor: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Sobibor which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 250,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Kola archeological investigation, were buried in “7 huge mass graves” - one grave measuring 70 x 25 x 5 meters and six measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters: No known photographs of these alleged “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Sobibors “huge mass graves:” http://www.undersobibor.org/excavation09.jpg And: The alleged Shermer investigation: There is no photographic proof what-so-ever that Michael Shermer so much as stepped foot into the Sobibor camp during his alleged “firsthand” investigation of / research in the Sobibor camp, in which he claims he proved, by “reviewing the physical evidence,” that 250,000 jews were killed there. * Chelmno: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Chelmno which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 320,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Gorczyca archeological investigation, were buried in “huge mass graves.” Note: Though no specific figure has been given for the number of “huge mass graves” allegedly located at Chelmno, we are told that – “in a large field of open excavations,” there are - “some over a hundred feet long.” (Scroll down to the bottom photo): http://www.zchor.org/extermination/pits.htm And: http://www.thejewishpress.com/Upload.../chelmno-1.gif The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Chelmnos “huge mass graves:” http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno06.jpg * Belzec: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Belzec which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 600,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged investigations of: 1 – The alleged investigation of Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc - Judge Czeslaw Godzieszewski, in which he claims to have proven the existence of human remains in 9 excavated pits - the largest excavated pit allegedly being - 10 x 10 x 8 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 9 excavated pits exist. However, it has long been claimed that the following photos were taken at Belzec: A - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5250_1_web.jpg B - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5276_1_web.jpg C - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5275_1_web.jpg D - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5252_1_web.jpg Are the above photos those that show the results of Godzieszewski's "investigation?" Note: In summarizing his alleged investigation, Judge Czeslaw Godzieszewski claimed that the number of jews murdered and buried in the “huge mass graves” of Belzec was 1.8 million! 2 – The alleged kola investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 33 “huge mass graves” - the largest allegedly being “grave # 10” at - 24 x 18 x 5 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 33 “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) 3 - The alleged Shermer investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 30 “huge mass graves” - all 100 x 25 x 15 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 30 “huge mass graves” exist. Note: Each of the 30 “huge mass graves” allegedly proven to exist by Shermer, were once claimed to have held 100,000 dead jews each. The following is all the photographic documentation there is of the claims of Rabbis Avi Weiss and Shmuel Herzfeld who allegedly saw human remains “strewn throughout” the camp and “literally everywhere” in an adjacent “large field.” (Scroll down to the photo captioned “Remnants.”): http://www.death-camps.org/belzec/buildingsite.html Please note: Robin O’Neil (who claims 800,000 jews are buried at Belzec) has yet to release the alleged videos which he claims he took while participating in the Kola “investigation.” * Treblinka: The following is all the alleged photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 870,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged investigations of: 1 - The Aug 22 and 23, 1944 Soviet investigation: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp44.jpg (Where are all the other photos?) The following aerial photo was taken about a month after the Soviet “investigation:” http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg (Why didn’t the Soviets do any digging in the alleged burial area, where the vast majority of the alleged 870,000 dead jews were allegedly buried? They allegedly “relentlessly interviewed” 12 “eyewitnesses” before they commenced their “investigation.” Why did they have to resort to digging in the cemetery a mile away in order to locate any corpses? – And only 318 at that!) 2 - The Nov 9 - 13, 1945 Polish / jewish investigation: A – Photos of the "huge mass grave:" 1 - http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg 2 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp43.jpg 4 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp42.jpg B - Photos of the "huge mass grave's" excavation: 1 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5809_1_web.jpg 2 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg 4 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg C - miscellaneous photos that show nothing at all: 1 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp46.jpg 2 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp47.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp48.jpg 4 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp49.jpg 5 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp50.jpg (That's supposed to be photographic "proof" of the murder of 870,000 jews? Where are all the other photos? No wonder they didn’t want any international observers present during the “investigation.”) 3 - The "commission from Warsaw" investigation: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg (Where are all the other photos?) 4 – The alleged Shermer “investigation:” There is no photographic proof what-so-ever that Michael Shermer so much as stepped foot into the Treblinka camp during his alleged “firsthand” investigation of / research, in which he claims he proved, by “reviewing the physical evidence,” that 900,000 jews were killed there. 5 – The photos of the alleged "huge craters" from "the time when the "grave robbers" allegedly used bombs for "extraction." Remember this quote from Martyna Rusiniak: "The young historian shows us photos of the largest postwar excavation sites. The pits have a length of ten meters, one of them looks like the construction pit of a several-story building."): These allegedly known photographs, for some inexplicable reason, have never been published. (Why haven’t these alleged photos been scanned and uploaded onto the WWW?) 6 -The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the claim of Martin Gilbert who allegedly, in a 1959 visit to the Treblinka site - “driven by I know not what impulse, I ran my hand through that soil, again and again. The earth beneath my feet was coarse and sharp: filled with the fragments of human bone:" No known photographs of the alleged field “filled with the fragments of human bone" exist. * * * * * Yes folks, that is all the physical evidence there is for the alleged murder of 2,040,000 jews and the fraudulent claims that this alleged murder has been proven via archeological "investigations." The "investigations" and the "investigators" are as fraudulent as the original claims of mass murder. |
June 25th, 2008 | #213 |
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And this is as far as I can boil down the issue of the fraudulent archeological “investigations” of the alleged “pure extermination centers” at the moment. (Because of Roberta’s relentless whining and to be as fair and balance as I possibley can, I did relent and include some photos that I had stricken earlier.)
* * * * * The following is all the photographic documentation there is of the alleged archeological / forensic investigations allegedly conducted at the alleged industrial killing centers of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), a total of 2,040,000 jews were killed and buried in “huge mass graves” at said sites. * Sobibor: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Sobibor which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 250,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Kola archeological investigation, were buried in “7 huge mass graves” - one grave measuring 70 x 25 x 5 meters and six measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters: No known photographs of these alleged “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Sobibors “huge mass graves:” http://www.undersobibor.org/excavation09.jpg And: The alleged Shermer investigation: There is no photographic proof what-so-ever that Michael Shermer so much as stepped foot into the Sobibor camp during his alleged “firsthand” investigation of / research in the Sobibor camp, in which he claims he proved, by “reviewing the physical evidence,” that 250,000 jews were killed there. * Chelmno: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Chelmno which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 320,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Gorczyca archeological investigation, were buried in “huge mass graves.” Note: Though no specific figure has been given for the number of “huge mass graves” allegedly located at Chelmno, we are told that – “in a large field of open excavations,” there are - “some over a hundred feet long.” (Scroll down to the bottom photo): http://www.zchor.org/extermination/pits.htm And: http://www.thejewishpress.com/Upload.../chelmno-1.gif The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Chelmnos “huge mass graves:” http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno06.jpg * Belzec: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Belzec which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 600,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged investigations of: 1 – The alleged investigation of Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc - Judge Czeslaw Godzieszewski, in which he claims to have proven the existence of human remains in 9 excavated pits - the largest excavated pit allegedly being - 10 x 10 x 8 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 9 excavated pits exist. However, it has long been claimed that the following photos were taken at Belzec: A - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5250_1_web.jpg B - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5276_1_web.jpg C - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5275_1_web.jpg D - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5252_1_web.jpg Are the above photos those that show the results of Godzieszewski's "investigation?" Note: In summarizing his alleged investigation, Judge Czeslaw Godzieszewski claimed that the number of jews murdered and buried in the “huge mass graves” of Belzec was 1.8 million! 2 – The alleged kola investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 33 “huge mass graves” - the largest allegedly being “grave # 10” at - 24 x 18 x 5 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 33 “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) 3 - The alleged Shermer investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 30 “huge mass graves” - all 100 x 25 x 15 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 30 “huge mass graves” exist. Note: Each of the 30 “huge mass graves” allegedly proven to exist by Shermer, were once claimed to have held 100,000 dead jews each. Please note: Robin O’Neil (who claims 800,000 jews are buried at Belzec) has yet to release the alleged videos which he claims he took while participating in the Kola “investigation.” * Treblinka: The following is all the alleged photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 870,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged investigations of: 1 - The Aug 22 and 23, 1944 Soviet investigation: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp44.jpg (Where are all the other photos?) The following aerial photo was taken about a month after the Soviet “investigation:” http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg (Why didn’t the Soviets do any digging in the alleged burial area, where the vast majority of the alleged 870,000 dead jews were allegedly buried? They allegedly “relentlessly interviewed” 12 “eyewitnesses” before they commenced their “investigation.” Why did they have to resort to digging in the cemetery a mile away in order to locate any corpses? – And only 318 at that!) 2 - The Nov 9 - 13, 1945 Polish / jewish investigation: A – Photos of the "huge mass grave:" 1 - http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg 2 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp43.jpg 4 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp42.jpg B - Photos of the "huge mass grave's" excavation: 1 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5809_1_web.jpg 2 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg 4 - http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg C - Miscellaneous photos of trash strewn about the site: 1 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp46.jpg 2 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp47.jpg 3 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp48.jpg 4 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp49.jpg 5 - http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp50.jpg (That's supposed to be photographic "proof" of the murder of 870,000 jews? Where are all the other photos? No wonder they didn’t want any international observers present during the “investigation.”) 3 - The "commission from Warsaw" investigation: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg (Where are all the other photos?) 4 – The alleged Shermer “investigation:” There is no photographic proof what-so-ever that Michael Shermer so much as stepped foot into the Treblinka camp during his alleged “firsthand” investigation of / research, in which he claims he proved, by “reviewing the physical evidence,” that 900,000 jews were killed there. * * * * * Yes folks, that is all the physical evidence there is for the alleged mass murder of 2,040,000 jews and the fraudulent claims that this alleged murder has been proven via archeological "investigations." The "investigations" and the "investigators" are as fraudulent as the original claims of mass murder. The “pure extermination centers” were simply the WMD’s of WW II. Get used to the fact. |
June 26th, 2008 | #214 | |
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Or are you just trying to let off steam? I'd say it's the latter. And if you claim that all prosecution evidence I have shown is from Jews you're not a very attentive reader. These exhibits listed in my post # 206 are mostly if not exclusively contemporary Nazi documents or assessments thereof by a West German court, or testimonies of participants in the killing, mostly before West German criminal justice authorities: 3. Letter by Willy Just to Walter Rauff dated 5 June 1942, regarding gas van operations at Chelmno extermination camp: http://www.holocaust-history.org/194...-spezialwagen/ 4. Letter by Gauleiter Arthur Greiser to Himmler dated 1 May 1942, mentioning the "special treatment" of 100,000 Jews from his district about to be completed, and requesting permission to treat 35,000 Poles with open tuberculosis in the same manner: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...r-greiser.html 5. Further documents about the murderous purpose of "Sonderkommando Lange": http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...urpose-of.html 6. Eyewitness testimonies about the use of gas vans at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38440 7. Excerpt from the judgment at the trial against former members of the Chelmno staff before District Court of Bonn, German Federal Republic, mentioning the documentary evidence used by the court to establish the number of people killed at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38440 |
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June 26th, 2008 | #215 | |
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You should get used to the idea that one doesn't have to be Jewish to dislike your Nazi BS. All it takes is a little common sense and humanity. |
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June 26th, 2008 | #216 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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# 206 http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=206 # 207 http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=207 # 208 http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=208 # 209 http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=209 In the following I shall therefore only address what new "arguments" Gerdes has provided or what repeated BS I feel like addressing again, and for the rest refer our readers to my above-mentioned posts. Should Gerdes have "stricken" anything without having provided evidence that the exhibit in question was manipulated or is not related to any of the Aktion Reinhard(t) camps, his "striking" that exhibit is arbitrary and therefore not accepted. Quote:
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2. A mound of the ashes of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5938_1_web.jpg 3. A mound of the remains of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5964_1_web.jpg 4. A glass display case containing ashes and bones of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5968_1_web.jpg 5. Hair, bones and ashes found on the grounds of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6238_1_web.jpg 6 Hair, bones and ashes in the area of the Sobibor extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6239_1_web.jpg Quote:
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Or did you have another page of Shermer’s Denying History in mind, Mr. Gerdes? If so, which? Snip Chelmno BS, already addressed. Snip Belzec BS, already addressed, up to the following silly question: Quote:
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Snip BS about Prof. Kola’s archeological investigation, already addressed. Quote:
The new big fat straw-man is Gerdes’ reference to the wildly overblown estimate made by eyewitness Rudolf Reder, which not even prosecutor Chrósciewicz (see above) seem to have taken seriously. Even Mattogno was honest enough to mention the documented number of deportees to Belzec, though he only dedicated a single sentence to it after making a big fuss about higher numbers. On page 50 of Mattogno’s Belzec book, we read the following: Quote:
As to the Shermer baloney, see the above quote from Shermer's book and related questions, which of course apply to Belzec as well. Snip BS about Avi Weiss’s article under http://www.hir.org/amcha/belzec.html , already addressed. Snip the O’Neill video BS, already addressed. Snip Treblinka BS, already addressed, up to the following silly questions: Quote:
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Snip list of photographs confirmed or presumed to belong to the investigation headed by Examining Judge Lukaszkiewicz that was carried out between 9 and 13 November 1945. Quote:
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And assuming there are no other photographs, so what? The ones available to us match the site description in Lukaszkiewicz reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945, relevant excerpts quoted in my post # 172 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=172 (exhibit A.3.1.4). So also under this aspect there’s no reason to doubt the accuracy of these site investigation reports. Quote:
And as to a crime committed on Polish soil being investigated by Polish criminal justice authorities, who does the investigation when they bump someone off in Missoula, Ma., Mr. Gerdes? Snip BS about the site investigation in 1947 by a commission in Warsaw including Mr. Karol Ogrodowczyk, whose description of the site and the robbery digging is quoted in my post # 172 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=172 (exhibit A.1.3.5). Also snip more horseshit about Shermer. Quote:
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Not every photo that is known to Polish historians is also necessarily published (especially when it comes to a subject as sensitive in Poland as robbery-digging on extermination camp sites). Not every photo that is published in Poland is also necessarily published outside Poland. And not every photo that is published anywhere in the world is also necessarily available on the Internet. These two photos, for instance, would probably not be on the internet and not even be known outside Poland if I had not become interested in the Polish newspaper article featuring them: Get a brain, Gerdes. Quote:
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Doesn’t especially the last photograph look just like what Mr. Gilbert ran his hand through, Gerdes? Quote:
As we’re at it, let’s have a complete and sourced quote of Gilbert’s description: From Alex Bay’s The Reconstruction of Treblinka, section link http://www.holocaust-history.org/Tre...graphyp2.shtml : Quote:
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Ah, and the figure is not 2,040,000. The documented death toll of Chelmno (ca. 150,000), Belzec (ca. 430,000), Sobibor (ca. 150,000) and Treblinka (ca. 750,000) adds up to about 1,480,000 victims. Quote:
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Gerdes’ post # 213 seems to be a copy-and-paste repetition of # 212, except for the last piece of Gerdian wisdom: Quote:
I also didn’t know there were dozens of eyewitnesses to the existence of these WMD’s, largely including the fellows responsible for their construction and/or deployment, like there are dozens of eyewitness testimonies to the mass killing at the AR camps, including such that were subject to cross-examinaton before West German courts and such from participants in the mass killing sentenced by West German courts. I also didn’t know there were post-US invasion descriptions of Iraqi WMDs by site investigators, archeologists and others, such as the Treblinka reports I mentioned in my post # 172 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=172 (exhibits A.3.1.1 to A.3.1.6), the report of Prof. Kola’s archeological investigation at Belzec, discussed in my article starting under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html , and examining judge Czeslaw Godzieszewski’s Belzec site investigation report discussed in, among others, my post # 208 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=208 . I didn’t know there were photographs of traces or leftovers of the Iraqi WMDs, like there are photographs of the AR killing sites and of ashes, bones and other remains thereon. I furthermore didn’t know there’s an absence of evidence pointing to a scenario other than the actual existence of the WMD’s, like there’s a total lack of evidence suggesting that the camps in question were the "transit camps" you would like them to have been. And, last but not least, I didn’t know anyone, especially criminal investigators and historians, concluded that the Iraqi WMDs were a proven fact, or for that matter that anyone still believed in the WMD’s existence after, say, one year following the start of the US invasion of Iraq. The WMD hoax was rather quickly and clearly exposed as such. So I’d say your comparison sucks, my friend. But then, what of all you have produced in this discussion does not suck? |
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June 26th, 2008 | #217 | |
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Bobby Mule's posts on Sf were as they are here, lengthy; rote, bellicose, full of meaningless verbiage - decadent intellectual masturbation; and in the end self-absorbed. Worse than a mischling, he is -apparently- if one is to believe and take at face value that he is related to the man he claims as Uncle, a spiritual jew - and an example of the excellent propaganda perpetrated against Germans of The Reich as well as their descendants. Bobby Mule is quite the jewish success story! A poster boy for juden of sorts. |
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June 26th, 2008 | #218 | ||
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Gibberish... furious invective...let off steam? It's your feelings on parade in this thread, Berty. Quote:
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June 26th, 2008 | #219 |
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OK folks, I think you can all see what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. I included the Belzec, Chelmno & Sobibor recaps so everyone could see how this all fits together.
BUT - We need to get back to Treblinka alone because we have now boiled this down to the two most important ALLEGED archeological / forensic investigations of Treblinka - The Soviet and Polish "investigations." (We will also set aside for the moment the Shermer and Warsaw comminsion "investigations.") So, I will do a final recap for Belzec, Chelmno and Sobibor, then move back to talking about Treblinka alone. * * * * * The following is all the photographic documentation there is of the alleged archeological / forensic investigations allegedly conducted at the alleged industrial killing centers of: * Sobibor: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Sobibor which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 250,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Kola archeological investigation, were buried in “7 huge mass graves” - one grave measuring 70 x 25 x 5 meters and six measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters: No known photographs of these alleged “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Sobibors “huge mass graves:” http://www.undersobibor.org/excavation09.jpg And: The alleged Shermer investigation: There is no photographic proof what-so-ever that Michael Shermer so much as stepped foot in the Sobibor camp during his alleged “firsthand” investigation of / research in the Sobibor camp, in which he claims he proved, by “reviewing the physical evidence,” that 250,000 jews were killed there. * Chelmno: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Chelmno which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 320,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged Gorczyca archeological investigation, were buried in “huge mass graves.” Note: Though no specific figure has been given for the number of “huge mass graves” allegedly located at Chelmno, we are told that – “in a large field of open excavations,” there are - “some over a hundred feet long.” (Scroll down to the bottom photo): http://www.zchor.org/extermination/pits.htm And: http://www.thejewishpress.com/Upload.../chelmno-1.gif The following is all the photographic evidence there is of the human remains alleged to have been located in Chelmnos “huge mass graves:” http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno06.jpg * Belzec: The following is all the photographic documentation there is for the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Belzec which, according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), 600,000 jews were killed and, according to the alleged investigations of: 1 – The alleged investigation of Czeslaw Godzieszewski, in which he claims to have excavated 9 pits - the largest allegedly being - 10 x 10 x 8 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 9 excavated pits exist. However, it has long been claimed that the following photos were taken at Belzec: A – http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5250_1_web.jpg B – http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5276_1_web.jpg C – http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5275_1_web.jpg D – http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5252_1_web.jpg Are the above photos those that show the results of Godzieszewski's "investigation?" Note: At the time of Godzieszewski's “investigation,” it was being claimed by the Soviets / jews that 3 million jews had been murdered and buried at Belzec – THREE MILLION! 2 – The alleged kola investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 33 “huge mass graves” - the largest allegedly being “grave # 10” at - 24 x 18 x 5 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 33 “huge mass graves” exist. (Nor do any photos exist of Kola's alleged core samples allegedly taken from said graves.) 3 - The alleged Shermer investigation, in which he claims to have proven the existence of 30 “huge mass graves” - all 100 x 25 x 15 meters: No known photographs of the alleged 30 “huge mass graves” exist. Note: Each of the 30 “huge mass graves” allegedly proven to exist by Shermer, were once claimed by the Soviets / jews to have held 100,000 dead jews each. Also note: Robin O’Neil (who claims 800,000 jews are buried at Belzec) has yet to release the alleged videos which he claims he took while participating in the Kola “investigation.” There “pure extermination centers” were simply the WMDs of WWII. Get used to the fact. |
June 26th, 2008 | #220 |
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OK, now back to Treblinka only and, more specifically, the ALLEGED archeological / forensic investigations of the Soviets / Poles and Poles / jews. Everything that needs to be discussed at this point, to the best of my present knowledge, can be found in the following from this site: http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/
Specifically, these portions of this chapter (I've edited some out for brevity, but that doesn't mean that we aren't discussing all of parts 1,2 &3): Chapter III: Investigations - parts one, two and three 1. Soviet Investigations and Forensic Examinations In the middle of August 1944, the 65th Soviet Army conquered the region around Treblinka. The Military Examining Judge of the Military Office of Prosecution First Lieutenant of Justice Jurowski went to work immediately, supported by other officers - Major Kononjuk, Major V.S. Apresjan, First Lieutenant F.A. Rodionov, Major M.E. Golovan, and Lieutenant N.V. Kadalo - and carried out investigations between August 15 and 23 on the grounds of the camps Treblinka I and Treblinka II. He furthermore questioned witnesses: Samuel Rajzman, Lucjan Puchała, Marianna Kobus, Stanisław Zdonek, Barbara Zemkiewicz, Józef Pukaszek, Stanisław Kon, Mieczysław Anyszkiewicz, Tadeusz Kann, Franciszek Wesolowski, Max Lewit, and Kazimierz Skarzyński. On August 24, 1944, a commission composed of the Soviet officers previously named as well as representatives of the local Polish authorities produced the first official report concerning the camps Treblinka I and II. With respect to Treblinka II it says there: "The camp Treblinka II was an enormous death combine. The death factory, in which the SS-men ruthlessly and zealously exterminated millions of people, was in operation around the clock for 13 months, from July 1942 until September 1943. Martyrs of the camp who were left with their lives tell that... While traveling they were dying of hunger. There was no water. They drank urine. The statements of the witnesses, the book 'One Year in Treblinka' [by Jankiel Wiernik], the presence of a large quantity of ashes and cinders, the presence of personal commodities and documents strewn on the grounds as well as excavated from the pits confirm that there were ovens in the camp where people were cremated. In the beginning, the Germans buried the bodies of the murdered. After Himmler had visited the camp, the bodies were dug up with an excavator and cremated. At the present it is difficult to uncover the traces and secrets of this oven for the cremation of people, but based upon the available data, one can picture it. The oven - this was a large trench 250-300 m in length, 20-25 m in width and 5-6 m deep, excavated by an excavator. Driven into the bottom of the ditch were three rows of reinforced concrete posts, one-and-a-half m in height each. The posts were connected to one another by cross-beams. On these cross-beams rails were placed at intervals of 5 to 7 cm. That was a gigantic oven grill. The Germans attempted to delete the traces of their atrocities. Remaining as marks of the existence of the camp are: an abatis of barbed wire, ashes, cinders, and a great number of pits, where household objects of the cremated Jews have been buried." The report ends with six "conclusions," of which the most important is the first: "On the basis of the preliminary facts, the cremation of people has been determined with no doubt. The extent of the extermination of people was monstrous: about three million." On September 11, a "Report of the front-line press TASS" was compiled, which bore the title "The Death Camp in Tremblinka" (sic). We reproduce the most significant excerpts: "Tremblinka! At this word people tremble and look fearfully sideways. People who lived in the vicinity of Tremblinka could not sleep at night: the screams of men, women, and children whom they were murdering ripped through the darkness. The stench penetrated from there. They were burning people there. On the 15th of September, a Polish-Soviet commission, consisting of Magister P. Sobolevski, the Secretary of the Polish-Soviet Commission for the Revelation of German Crimes, M. Chodzko, the representative of the information and propaganda department of a Polish institute, as well as G.E. Levakov, the representative of the War Soviet of the 2nd Byelorussian Front, composed a "protocol of a provisional preliminary investigation and reconnaissance in the former concentration camp Tremblinka," in which the recent investigations of Soviet military justice were summarized, and from which we cite some excerpts: The concentration camp Tremblinka consisted of two sections, which were at a distance of one-and-a-half kilometers from each other. The first section was named 'Death Camp No. 2.' This camp itself, on whose grounds two burned-down farm buildings can now be found, broke down into two parts, and a railroad track led to this Camp No. 2. Here, something along the lines of a train station was constructed in order to disguise the actual mission - the extermination. A three-fold barbed wire abatis was camouflaged with tree branches. For this reason the people taken here believed initially that they were at a transit point on their journey to the east. In the winter of 1943, the German murderers proceeded to exhume and burn the corpses. For this purpose they also used an excavator. The personal documents found here, torn into pieces and thrown away, prove that citizens of Poland, of the Soviet Union, of Czechoslovakia and other nations, members of the intelligentsia as well as simple workers, were killed here. The objects found bear witness to the fact that here men, women, and children of every age were interned in entire families. The things found, like, for example, violin parts, children's toys, devices for waving the hair [hair curlers], books and the like, show that many came to this place who did not suspect the destination of their journey. Pieces of burned and destroyed passports confirm that citizens from Poland, the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and other nations occupied by the Germans were interned here." 2. Polish Investigations and Forensic Examinations After the conclusion of the previously described investigations, the Treblinka matter was allowed to rest for more than a year. But the preparations for the Nuremberg Trial awakened the interest of the Jewish Central Historical Commission as well as of the Polish State Prosecutor's office for that camp. On November 6, 1945, the latter carried out an inspection trip to Treblinka, in which participated: Rachel Auerbach and Józef Kermisz as representatives of the said Jewish Commission, Judge Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz, State Prosecutor J. Maciejewski, land surveyor K. Trautsolt, the witnesses Samuel Rajzman, Tanhum Grinberg, Szimon Friedman, and M. Mittelberg - all members of the Association of Former Treblinka Inmates - J. Slebczak, President of the district council of Siedlce, Major Jucharek from the neighboring village of Wólka Okrąglik, and finally photographer Jakob Byk.[204] In January 1946, R. Auerbach described the inspection as follows:[205] "Our car came to a stop. We got out: this was where the camp area began. According to our measurements, it is 15 hectares. A well-paved road runs parallel to the railroad tracks for about 11/2 kilometers and then comes to a dead end. Another road branches out from it and comes to an end even sooner. The surface of both roads contains a weird mixture of coal and ashes from the pyres where the corpses of the inmates were cremated. While the Germans were still here, the whole area had been plowed up and sown with lupine grass. And the lupine grass really grew and covered the whole surface with a green mask. It looked as if all the traces of crime had been wiped away. But since then, during the past year, the human jackals and hyenas have been coming to the burial ground and here is the picture that we saw: Here and there, like patches of grass near the seashore, half-covered by the shifting sands, there were still little clumps of withered lupine. Not one level place in the whole area. Everything had been torn up and dug up, little hills and holes. And upon them, beneath them and among them, all sorts of objects. Aluminum kettles and pans, enameled tin pots - blackened, dented, full of holes. Combs with teeth broken off, half-rotted soles from ladies' summer sandals, broken mirrors, leather briefcases. All this is near the station platform where the camp's first barbed wire fences had been. We began our tour at the place where the transports had been unloaded and we continued on the road which the Jews who were brought here had followed. What we saw here was the remnants of the Treblinka 'Werterfassung'. Remnants of the huge piles of Jewish property, which had been packed up and sent away, incinerated, cleared off, and yet still could not be completely cleared away. It was not possible to clear away every trace of what the hundreds of thousands of people who had passed through here had experienced. Here was the physical evidence, here were the corpora delicti But the physical evidence was not limited to objects. As we moved farther into the grounds, we walked over a field which was sown with human bones. The bombs had revealed the contents of the desecrated soil. Leg bones, ribs, pieces of the spine, skulls big and small, short and long, round and flat. Skulls!... If only we could get an ethnologist to come here! We were now standing where the gas chambers had been, the huge mass graves and the pyres. In some places, the smell of death was still mingled with the odor of fire. Indeed, here and there we could see little piles of white ashes along with blackened bones, heaps of soot. All this had been buried several meters deep in the soil, mixed with sand and covered with more sand, but the explosions had brought it to the surface again. In one place the simultaneous explosion of several bombs had created a huge crater. Deep down in the hole, some outlines could be dimly seen through the fog. 'Those aren't just bones,' explained the District Attorney. 'There are still pieces of half-rotted corpses lying there, bunches of intestines.' By now, the district attorney and the judge knew every nook and cranny here. They had been conducting their investigations for some time. They had examined both Jewish and non-Jewish witnesses, taken measurements and carried out minor excavations." For the purpose of performing an official investigation of the scene of the crime, Judge Łukaszkiewicz had gone to Treblinka. As he later explained, he acted: "[...] at the request of the State Prosecutor of the District Court in Siedlce of September 24, 1945, further induced by a letter of September 18, 1945, of the Main Commission for the Investigation of the German Murders in Poland." Between November 9 and 13, he undertook a thorough examination of the grounds as well as a series of excavations. Afterwards he composed an official protocol, which we reproduce in full in view of its significance:[207] "Protocol of the tasks performed on the grounds of the death camp Treblinka, which forms the object of the judicial examination. From November 9 to 13, 1945, the examining magistrate of Siedlce, Z. Łukaszkiewicz, together with the State Attorney for the District Court of Siedlce, J. Maciejewski, performed the following tasks on the camp grounds: November 9, 1945 Excavations were begun on the grounds using the services of 20 workers who had been mustered by the village administration for carrying out roadwork. The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called 'camp hospital' had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist. * Note - This is the alleged "lazarette," where every "eyewitness" has claimed that tens and tens of thousands of jews were allegedly shot and "burned" in the pit. Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location - two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater - the digging was begun in this crater. In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered. At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found. November 10, 1945 The work was continued, with 36 workers assigned who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects; there are also pieces of clothing. At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the floor of the pit - a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel. By means of expansion of the excavation we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit. It has sloping walls, and the bottom measures about 1.5 meters [sic!]. The pit was presumably excavated with an excavator. During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American. After we had made certain that this pit, filled with broken pieces of the containers mentioned, ran in a north-south direction on the grounds of the camp area - 2 meters more [in a northerly direction] had been excavated - the workers started work at this location. * Note - Not one mention of a single bullet, a single shell casing, a single bone, a single pound of crushed bone, not mention of so much as a single tooth in a pit that was alleged to have been the final resting place of what? 50 - 100 thousand jews? November 11, 1945 A series of test excavations were performed at the place where the [gas] chambers had to have been located, in order to find their foundation walls if possible. Pits 10 - 15 meters in length and 1.5 meters deep were dug. Undisturbed layers of earth were uncovered by this. The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters - its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains - was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here. November 13, 1945 With the assistance of 30 workers employed for roadwork, the opening of a pit was begun - a site where refuse was deposited in the northeastern section of the camp. In this location, as the workers from the nearby hamlets explained, a very large number of documents were found up till now. Work was begun at this location where the people [of that area] had dug a three-meter-deep pit in a search for gold. During the course of the digging, broken pieces of all sorts of kitchen containers as well as a large number of rags were continually found. Aside from the coins discovered so far, Greek, Slovakian, and French ones were found, as well as documents in Hebrew and Polish and remnants of a Soviet passport. At a depth of 5 meters the work was stopped due to the steadily worsening weather conditions. The Examining Judge The State Attorney Łukaszkiewicz Maciejewski Decision: The Examining Judge of Siedlce, on November 13, 1945, rules in consideration of the fact that with great probability no mass graves are any longer to be found on the grounds of the former camp today, as is to be concluded from the witness testimonies examined so far and from the results of the works carried out at the site, and in consideration of the oncoming autumn, the present rainfall and the necessity of a rapid conclusion of the judicial preliminary investigations, in view of all these facts to stop the work on the territory of the former death camp Treblinka. The Examining Judge Łukaszkiewicz." On December 29, 1945, after the conclusion of his preliminary investigations, Łukaszkiewicz issued a protocol with 14 paragraphs, which - as already mentioned - was presented by the Soviets at the Nuremberg Trial as Document USSR-344. In the third paragraph, which bears the title "Current condition of the camp terrain", it says the following: "With the assistance of an expert land surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact inspection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral. No remnants of facilities of the former death camp exist any longer. The only things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the foundations of the camp's domestic economics building and the site of the well. Here and there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains of barbed wire. There are also some sections of paved walks that remain. Nonetheless, there are still other traces that hint at the existence and functions of the camp. In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. In the southwestern direction, a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum - enamel - glass and porcelain dishes - kitchen utensils - hand luggage - rucksacks - pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property." Łukaszkiewicz summarized the investigations carried out a month earlier at that location as follows: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned, all the more so since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time. On August 9 and 10, 1946, Łukaszkiewicz, along with the surveyor Trautsolt and the court physician Wakulicz, searched for mass graves in the area of the camp Treblinka I. In the forest by the village of Maliszewa, about 500 m south of the camp, a total of 41 mass graves were found, of which 40 had been desecrated; many bodies were strewn around them. One grave was only partially violated, and from it 10 corpses were able to be recovered. The court physician examined 112 skulls and determined that only in two cases a shot in the head had been the cause of death. The entire surface of the graves amounted to 1,607 m2. Concerning the number of the bodies discovered, Łukaszkiewicz wrote: "Due to the destruction of the graves, it is not possible to count the bodies which have been there. The medical expert Mieczysław Piotrowski affirms, however, that one grave of 2 × 1 × 1 m (without taking into consideration the upper level of earth which covers the bodies) contains at least 6 nude bodies. Considering the size of all 41 graves, and under the assumption that the levels of corpses reach only up to 1.5 m in depth (the depth of the graves is up to 3 m), one can calculate that at least 6,500 people were buried there." Note: Are there any photos of this? On this occasion, the surveyor Trautsolt drew a map of the area of Treblinka I, on which he indicated the exact position of the graves.[[212]] Of these, 17 were aligned in a row in a north-south direction; their total length was approximately 510 m. This report provokes the following reflections: It may well be that a grave of 2 m × 1 m × 1 m can hold up to six bodies, but these measurements correspond to an entirely normal single grave. If one wished to dig mass graves, these would not have been merely one meter wide. Until evidence to the contrary, it is therefore to be assumed that such a grave contained only one body. These (mass-)graves could have been violated only in the period between October 1944 and August 1946, thus by the Poles, the Soviets, or by both simultaneously - but for what reason? If merely the remains of 122 people were found there, as the Polish judge remarks, where, then, were those of the other ca. 6,400? The likeliest supposition would be that the bodies were dug up by the local authorities and buried at the cemetery of the nearby village, possibly also in the vicinity of the camp, where there is still a cemetery today. In this case, it would of course have been strange that Łukaszkiewicz had heard nothing of it. But there is yet another, more disturbing explanation, to which we shall later return: the alleged violation was presumably done in order to be able to exaggerate the number of victims of Treblinka I. If one takes the three mass graves found by the Soviets in August 1944 as a comparison, then the 41 graves, at the same density, would have been able to hold at most 3,000 bodies. On the other hand, Łukaszkiewicz had carelessly written in his report of December 29, 1945, that "in this camp [Treblinka I] approximately 50,000 Poles and Jews were killed." One further question suggests itself: Who were the dead in Treblinka I? One knows with certainty that a typhus epidemic was raging in that camp in the fall of 1943. In fact, a list was kept with the names of 148 prisoners who for the most part had succumbed to this illness from November 12 to December 20, 1943.[214] The epidemic had broken out some months before, and for this reason a car with 11 tons of calcium hypochlorite was sent to Treblinka I on September 20 from the concentration camp at Lublin (Majdanek), which obviously was supposed to be scattered on the layers of bodies.[215] Since around 10,000 prisoners were interned in Treblinka I during the time of its existence,[216] one can assume that the mass graves uncovered by the Soviets and Poles contained the bodies of all - or nearly all - who died there. That is, further graves or traces of mass cremations were not found. 3. Assessment of the Investigations In her previously cited report, Rachel Auerbach spoke pompously of "physical evidence" and "corpora delicti." But actually neither the Soviets nor the Poles uncovered even the slightest scrap of proof that Treblinka II operated as an extermination camp. The Soviets, in their report of August 24, 1944 - cited in section 1 of this chapter - saw themselves compelled to make the following admission: "At the present it is difficult to uncover the traces and secrets of this oven for the cremation of people, but based upon the available data, one can picture it." Even the investigations performed by Łukaszkiewicz proved to be a complete failure in terms of this central question. He arranged excavation at a quite definite spot in the camp where, according to the witness S. Rajzman, a mass grave was located, but discovered nothing of the kind. He had trenches dug, 10-15 m long and 1.5 m deep, at the places where, according to witnesses, the two alleged buildings for gassing had stood, yet merely encountered "undisturbed layers of earth." To be sure, he did find skulls, but without wounds from shooting. All the evidence examined by him (coins, documents, rags, containers, remnants of various objects) show merely that there was a camp at that place, and the human remains as well as the ashes prove only that bodies were buried or cremated in the camp. Nothing produced even the trace of evidence for a mass murder, to say nothing of such a crime committed against several hundred thousand people. Among the objects discovered, the skulls as well as the human body parts found in a state of decomposition deserve particular attention. From whom did they come? If we hold to the official historiography, this question remains unanswered. According to this, the cremation of the bodies exhumed from the mass graves was finished by August 2, 1943, the day of the prisoner revolt. During this revolt, at least 300 to 400 prisoners are supposed to have been killed within the camp or in the vicinity of the wire fence,[217] and in the following three weeks, allegedly more than 30,000 Jews from the ghetto of Białystok were gassed, whose bodies neither the Soviets nor the Poles discovered. If there were such killings, these victims therefore must have been cremated. The same is true for the bodies of those killed in the revolt. The surviving prisoners were not, say, killed on the spot, rather they were transferred to Sobibór on December 20, 1943, as can be gathered from a corresponding Wehrmacht bill of lading.[218] If decomposing body parts were found in November 1945, this discovery is also inconsistent with the thesis that the victims involved were murdered more than two years before. Finally, it is strikingly problematic that no single complete body was discovered. From whom, therefore, did the skulls and body parts come? Were they perhaps taken from the mass graves of Treblinka I? Could these have been the remains of victims of the typhus epidemic, which had raged in the camp at the end of 1943? This hypothesis seems all the more plausible as none of the skulls exhibited gunshot wounds. It could also furnish an explanation for the odd circumstance that Treblinka II was bombed: the bombs destroyed not only the two buildings, which in all probability were left intact by the Germans,[219] but also scattered the rotted body parts over a wide area and thus increased the horrible effect of the 'extermination camp'. In fact, the discovered body parts were thoroughly exploited in propaganda. * * * * * Now remember this very important fact for the next part of this "debate" - Both the Soviets and the Poles brought along photographers to document and "fully exploit in propaganda" the gruesome images that of course would have to be found at the alleged - largest single mass murder site in the history of mankind. So there must be tons of photos documenting these three "investigations" then - right? One last note: The TOTAL number of bodies discovered by all three of these "investigations" amounts ot only 440 people. |
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