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Old June 29th, 2012 #2661
Bev
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Default Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
When Steele wrote those steamy love letters from his jail cell to Tatyana, he was crazy. He should have known that they could be shown to the jury. He was an experienced trial lawyer who had visited clients in jail and knew that their letters were subject to copying. Anyone who thinks that he was sane to write those letters is crazier than he was. It is clear from reading the letters that they were written by someone who was crazy.

The issue is not whether he was unfaithful to his wife. I don't care about that. The issue is him doing things that were crazy. Trying to blow his wife up with a pipe bomb could have been a rational act. Writing steamy love letters to his Ukrainian girl friend from his jail cell cannot be. That is the definition of insanity. I'm sure that the jury didn't need to see anything else. That was the smoking gun on his motive. I fault the jury for failing to return a non-guilty by insanity verdict. However, they were not given that option.

Alan Banks, the veterinarian and Steele's wife admitted the he was delusional after he got home from the hospital. This type of insanity is localized and may not be apparent to those who don't know what to look for. The government doesn't want him to be declared insane because they want to portray him as a cold blooded killer. His wife doesn't want that either because she wants to keep the money rolling in from his supporters.
I thought he claimed the letters were some sort of plan to expose a dating site or mail order bride scam? In any case, even if it was his bit on the side, I doubt he was the first person to be indiscreet in his communication with her and I doubt he'll be the last.

Post-op confusion is common, especially when the op is for a life changing event and even more so when it is emergency surgery and the patient doesn't have time to mentally prepare for it. It's whether the confusion continued that is the issue and it doesn't seem to have done.
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Old June 29th, 2012 #2662
Donald E. Pauly
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Angry Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
I thought he claimed the letters were some sort of plan to expose a dating site or mail order bride scam? In any case, even if it was his bit on the side, I doubt he was the first person to be indiscreet in his communication with her and I doubt he'll be the last.
.........
You have just proved another instance of his insanity. He thinks that someone will believe that he was investigating a so called Ukrainian bride scam. Read the letter. No investigator would ever write a letter like that. This is a letter from a love struck teenage boy sent from a jail cell. An investigator would only target money grubbing Ukrainian women who speak English and were targeting American men. He is chasing a fair damsel as you would understand it.

You forget that Steele wrote 14,000 emails to Ukrainian women over a 100 day period. This count was for women to whom he had written AT LEAST 100 emails. This was one every four minutes of a 10 hour day. No wonder that he claimed to be too sick to feed the horses. He didn't have time to feed them. No investigator would so fragment his efforts. If you can't crack a bride scam case in 1,000 emails, you don't know what you are doing. Steele was OBSESSED with Ukrainian women.

We now have only covered three of about 30 insanity proofs that I have come up with.
 
Old June 29th, 2012 #2663
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Default Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
You have just proved another instance of his insanity. He thinks that someone will believe that he was investigating a so called Ukrainian bride scam. Read the letter. No investigator would ever write a letter like that. This is a letter from a love struck teenage boy sent from a jail cell. An investigator would only target money grubbing Ukrainian women who speak English and were targeting American men. He is chasing a fair damsel as you would understand it.

You forget that Steele wrote 14,000 emails to Ukrainian women over a 100 day period. This count was for women to whom he had written AT LEAST 100 emails. This was one every four minutes of a 10 hour day. No wonder that he claimed to be too sick to feed the horses. He didn't have time to feed them. No investigator would so fragment his efforts. If you can't crack a bride scam case in 1,000 emails, you don't know what you are doing. Steele was OBSESSED with Ukrainian women.

We now have only covered three of about 30 insanity proofs that I have come up with.
Nope - I didn't forget the quantity of emails. That's actually part of my believing that the whole Ukrainian thing is irrelevant. If you love someone so much that you are prepared to kill your wife in order to be free to marry them, why are you writing to multiple women? If the emails had all been to the one woman, then I would have considered buying that he was obsessed with her to the point of murdering his wife.
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Old June 29th, 2012 #2664
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Smile Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
Nope - I didn't forget the quantity of emails. That's actually part of my believing that the whole Ukrainian thing is irrelevant. If you love someone so much that you are prepared to kill your wife in order to be free to marry them, why are you writing to multiple women? If the emails had all been to the one woman, then I would have considered buying that he was obsessed with her to the point of murdering his wife.
That is simple. Tatyana was the one of the 140 or so of them whom he liked the most. It is obvious from his love letter that he had something going with her for days or weeks. In answer to your question, he tried to kill his wife because he was crazy. He was writing 100 Ukrainian women because he was crazy. He was and is crazy. This explains all things that he did.
 
Old June 29th, 2012 #2665
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Default Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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That is simple. Tatyana was the one of the 140 or so of them whom he liked the most. It is obvious from his love letter that he had something going with her for days or weeks. In answer to your question, he tried to kill his wife because he was crazy. He was writing 100 Ukrainian women because he was crazy. He was and is crazy. This explains all things that he did.
It's not simple at all. If you love someone - Tatyana - so much that you are prepared to kill your wife, your children's mother for her, you're not going to be messing about with 99 other women. It's not obvious that he liked Tatyana the most - she may have been the most forthcoming with information about the supposed scam.

I have still seen nothing to indicate that he was crazy.
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Old June 29th, 2012 #2666
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
It's not simple at all. If you love someone - Tatyana - so much that you are prepared to kill your wife, your children's mother for her, you're not going to be messing about with 99 other women. It's not obvious that he liked Tatyana the most - she may have been the most forthcoming with information about the supposed scam.

I have still seen nothing to indicate that he was crazy.
Perhaps I confused you. Whether he loves the Ukrainian whore or not is irrelevant. When he writes her from his jail cell, he is crazy as a shit house rat as a matter of law. That proves that he has NO contact with reality.
 
Old June 29th, 2012 #2667
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Default Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
When he writes her from his jail cell, he is crazy as a shit house rat as a matter of law.
There's no such 'matter of law.' It's your simple smear that your hurl incessantly.

Your opinions are nonsensical.

You scream 'crazy as a shit house rat' in one breath, then deduce cold-blooded, calculating intellect with the other. It's pseudo-logic.

You and your campaign are ridiculous.
 
Old June 29th, 2012 #2668
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

What the fuck is going on??????????????
 
Old June 29th, 2012 #2669
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Default Re: Worst Case of Insanity in History.

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
It's not simple at all. If you love someone - Tatyana - so much that you are prepared to kill your wife, your children's mother for her, you're not going to be messing about with 99 other women. It's not obvious that he liked Tatyana the most - she may have been the most forthcoming with information about the supposed scam.

I have still seen nothing to indicate that he was crazy.
Thank you, Bev.

You've officially become a member, with the other sane, of the 'Crazy Steele, Crazy Cheerleader Camp.' Our mascot is The Mighty Shithouse Rat.

We have a reciprocity agreement to use the pool at the 'Ridiculous Round Earth, Insane Cheerleader Society.'
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2670
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Perhaps I confused you. Whether he loves the Ukrainian whore or not is irrelevant. When he writes her from his jail cell, he is crazy as a shit house rat as a matter of law. That proves that he has NO contact with reality.
No, you didn't confuse me. Whether he loves the Ukrainian woman or not is very, very relevant. If he loves her to the point of murder (and to the point of risking alienating his kids by killing their mum) in order to be free to be with her, then he is not going to risk their love by sending love letters to 99 of her fellow countrywomen. This suggests to me that his claim of exposing some scam is probably true.

Can you tell me which law it is that states you are mad if you write to a girlfriend from prison? We don't have that law here. That it was unwise of him is probably true. That he had too much faith in the system by believing that he would be believed as to the reason for the letters is probably true. That he is insane is unsubstantiated conjecture.

Another point to consider is that the greater the mind is, the harder they fall when dementia or insanity strikes. That he was a lawyer suggests he had an above-average mind. If insanity were to strike him, it would hit him hard and it is doubtful he would be able to hide it from the world in general. One certainly wouldn't have to scour and dig to find vague incidents that might suggest a mental aberration if one spins them hard enough.

He knows the law. His actions suggest he has a sufficient enough grasp on reality to be able to make the insanity defence if he wished, knowing it would buy him an easier life. He didn't.

Do you think your hatred of lawyers might be colouring your judgment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
Thank you, Bev.

You've officially become a member, with the other sane, of the 'Crazy Steele, Crazy Cheerleader Camp.' Our mascot is The Mighty Shithouse Rat.

We have a reciprocity agreement to use the pool at the 'Ridiculous Round Earth, Insane Cheerleader Society.'
I seem to be in good (and a large) company. I just haven't seen anything that convinces me he is insane.
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Old June 30th, 2012 #2671
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
No, you didn't confuse me. Whether he loves the Ukrainian woman or not is very, very relevant. If he loves her to the point of murder (and to the point of risking alienating his kids by killing their mum) in order to be free to be with her, then he is not going to risk their love by sending love letters to 99 of her fellow countrywomen. This suggests to me that his claim of exposing some scam is probably true.

Can you tell me which law it is that states you are mad if you write to a girlfriend from prison? We don't have that law here. That it was unwise of him is probably true. That he had too much faith in the system by believing that he would be believed as to the reason for the letters is probably true. That he is insane is unsubstantiated conjecture.

Another point to consider is that the greater the mind is, the harder they fall when dementia or insanity strikes. That he was a lawyer suggests he had an above-average mind. If insanity were to strike him, it would hit him hard and it is doubtful he would be able to hide it from the world in general. One certainly wouldn't have to scour and dig to find vague incidents that might suggest a mental aberration if one spins them hard enough.

He knows the law. His actions suggest he has a sufficient enough grasp on reality to be able to make the insanity defence if he wished, knowing it would buy him an easier life. He didn't.

Do you think your hatred of lawyers might be colouring your judgment?

I seem to be in good (and a large) company. I just haven't seen anything that convinces me he is insane.
Unlike the Steele cheerleaders on this thread, you make many good points and are a worthy opponent. You fail to see the forest for the trees however. Let's take a shortcut on the reasoning process.

Suppose that Steele took his clothes off and danced naked in front of the jury. (The U.S. Marshalls were unprepared and too dumbfounded to stop him in time.) Would that be evidence to you that he was insane? Once you answer that question we are well on the way to solving this case.

BTW, my hatred of lawyers has been reduced to an exact science. Nothing pleases me more than to watch one led off in handcuffs. I want to see all 1.1 million of them in this country dangling from ropes. I suffer severe pain in this case from trying to get one out of prison. However I am suppressing my hatred of them in order to do my duty here.

Last edited by Donald E. Pauly; June 30th, 2012 at 09:45 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2672
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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What the fuck is going on??????????????
You will have to be more specific on your question in order for me to answer it. Have you read the last 130 pages of this thread?
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2673
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Suppose that Steele took his clothes off and danced naked in front of the jury. (The U.S. Marshalls were unprepared and too dumbfounded to stop him in time.) Would that be evidence to you that he was insane? Once you answer that question we are well on the way to solving this case.
Steele didn't do that. And nothing he has done is remotely like that. It's just another sorry smear by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly
However I am suppressing my hatred of [lawyers] in order to do my duty here.
What duty? To whom? Why? Are you remunerated? How so? If so, is it contingent on number of posts?
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2674
Donald E. Pauly
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Angry Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Steele didn't do that. And nothing he has done is remotely like that. It's just another sorry smear by you.

What duty? To whom? Why? Are you remunerated? How so? If so, is it contingent on number of posts?
Lenny the Jew lover needs to keep his mouth shut and speak when he is spoken to. I never claimed that Steele did this. This was a theoretical question for a lady with brains, not you. My duty is to get a lawyer out of jail who is there thru no fault of his own. This is in spite of Whiggers like you.
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2675
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Lenny the Jew lover needs to keep his mouth shut and speak when he is spoken to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly
I never claimed that Steele did this. This was a theoretical question for a lady with brains, not you. My duty is to get a lawyer out of jail who is there thru no fault of his own. This is in spite of Whiggers like you.
It's 'through,' not 'thru.'

It's a rhetorical question, not a theoretical one--a stupid one at that.

No, I'm no lady.

And unlike you, I don't toss out baseless accusations or capitalize random nouns. I also wouldn't claim to be 'helping' a person that I was running into the ground. There is one ethnic group noted for that behavior, particularly in political contexts, which this clearly is.
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2676
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Unlike the Steele cheerleaders on this thread, you make many good points and are a worthy opponent. You fail to see the forest for the trees however. Let's take a shortcut on the reasoning process.

Suppose that Steele took his clothes off and danced naked in front of the jury. (The U.S. Marshalls were unprepared and too dumbfounded to stop him in time.) Would that be evidence to you that he was insane? Once you answer that question we are well on the way to solving this case.
But he didn't. However:

It would depend on other things whether I thought he was insane for dancing starkers in the courtroom. He could, from that, be insane. Or he could be setting the stage for himself to be declared insane.

I would need to know how he acted in other situations, when the officials weren't watching him and there was nobody he needed to convince. That's why I considered the fact that his wife, family, and more importantly, his own demeanour, don't appear to indicate there was anything wrong with him.
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Old June 30th, 2012 #2677
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Default Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

Steele would more than likely have acted strangely due to medication, not insanity.

Certainly anti-depressants and the mess they prescribe nowadays would affect anyone's mind.

As to love, that in itself has made many do foolish things.

His investigating white slavery is quite possible and believable considering his nature. That would not mean he could not have become infatuated with one, but still continued with the investigation of the others, it may in fact have made him all the more determined to rescue them all.

That he wrote traceable emails when USB's, hushmail etc are freely available, shows he was not concerned about hiding them.

If he wanted to kill his wife he could have simply killed her, driven her and her car over a cliff and burned them, and reported her missing.

We also do not know whether his "girlfriend" was a female at all, and not a Jewish conman.

Looking at VNN and the number of posts some make, numerous posts per day are not unusual, on often trivial matters.
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Old June 30th, 2012 #2678
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Naked Disco Dancing for the Jury

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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
But he didn't. However:

It would depend on other things whether I thought he was insane for dancing starkers in the courtroom. He could, from that, be insane. Or he could be setting the stage for himself to be declared insane.

I would need to know how he acted in other situations, when the officials weren't watching him and there was nobody he needed to convince. That's why I considered the fact that his wife, family, and more importantly, his own demeanour, don't appear to indicate there was anything wrong with him.
You essentially gave the correct answer here. There are many scenarios where it would be a rational act for him to dance naked in front of the jury. Here is one. Suppose that he saw that the jury selection was horrible and they were going to hang him. In that case if he danced naked in front of the jury, he would be essentially certain to get a mistrial. He would be subject to contempt of court, but he would already be locked up with nothing to lose. A new jury would be more than worth it. He also might get his head examined but that would again be more than worth it.

Read the letters that he wrote to his Ukrainian girlfriend. It is beyond argument that if he wrote ANY Ukrainian women from his jail cell for ANY reason, then he was crazier than a shit house rat. In answer to your question, it is an unwritten law here that such behavior makes you crazy as a matter of law. Perhaps I missed a scenario but I can't think of any possibility.
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2679
Donald E. Pauly
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Smile Re: Edgar Steele "charged in murder-for-hire plot"

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Steele would more than likely have acted strangely due to medication, not insanity.

Certainly anti-depressants and the mess they prescribe nowadays would affect anyone's mind.

As to love, that in itself has made many do foolish things.

His investigating white slavery is quite possible and believable considering his nature. That would not mean he could not have become infatuated with one, but still continued with the investigation of the others, it may in fact have made him all the more determined to rescue them all.

That he wrote traceable emails when USB's, hushmail etc are freely available, shows he was not concerned about hiding them.

If he wanted to kill his wife he could have simply killed her, driven her and her car over a cliff and burned them, and reported her missing.

We also do not know whether his "girlfriend" was a female at all, and not a Jewish conman.

Looking at VNN and the number of posts some make, numerous posts per day are not unusual, on often trivial matters.
You make some good points but clearly have not read the 130 pages of this thread. Steele went crazy from aorta surgery and this happens every day. All heart surgery patients suffer brain damage from open heart surgery.

It is impossible for his behavior to be related to any Ukrainian bride scam. You don't sweet talk one of them who can't speak English. You go for the one who wants money and speaks good English. Tatyana didn't speak a word of English and never asked for a penny. Steele had his daughter bring him Russian books in jail so he could communicate with her. She in turn was dumb enough to testify to that in court.

You have your work cut out to read the 1536 pages of the transcript like I have. Then you will be able to make some pertinent posts.
 
Old June 30th, 2012 #2680
Donald E. Pauly
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Angry Worst Case of Insanity in History

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
........
If he wanted to kill his wife he could have simply killed her, driven her and her car over a cliff and burned them, and reported her missing.

We also do not know whether his "girlfriend" was a female at all, and not a Jewish conman.
......
Two of your points are very good and require further comment. In 2000 Cyndi tried to take Steele for every penny that he had. She had caught him looking for women on match.com by posting her own profile. She then filed for divorce as posted a few pages back. I would argue that he had every right to kill her for that, but just not get caught and embarrass White Nationalism. From a moral standpoint, she committed attempted armed robbery.

When Steele was sane, he would never have attempted such an insane plot. He would have gone camping with her in the mountains and she would have fallen off a cliff. He would have needed to take acting lessons so that he could cry as he went for help. He couldn't come up with any tears when he was told the false story of his wife's death by an Idaho State Patrolman. His comment was:"You've gotta be shitting me!".

When I heard the government's story, I initially believed that Steele had been framed. I posted that I had lost all confidence in the FBI because they couldn't even do a decent job of framing somebody. The plot sounded like that it had been cooked up by a six-year-old. As evidence piled up, it became obvious that Steele had done what the government claimed and was bat shit crazy. I have about 30 separate proofs of that charge.

You are wrong about Tatyana Loginova, she is a 25-year-old cutie who speaks no English. The U.S. Embassy in the Ukraine arranged for a live video deposition with interpreters. She confirmed that the letters were real and acknowledged all details. The letters are not in dispute. Steele also admitted during sentencing that he wrote them and "I had my reasons.". These reasons will be comparable to the ones needed to explain the Resurrection. We are still waiting with baited breath.
 
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