Edgar Steele

[Donald E. Pauly]

Originally Posted by Katy

I was referring to the generally accepted universality of our daily way of life, which the things I described in my previous post are symbols of.

Pleased to renew our acquaintance, by the way. A few months ago, you and I engaged in debate on Occidental Observer about Dr. Sunic's book review of the NW Quartet. You were by no means an unworthy opponent, if not better-informed, as I benefited much from our discourse... which leads me to ask you the question, do you believe Steele is innocent and/or that the recording was concocted by the government?

Katy

You are new on the forum and can hardly be expected to read 3050 posts. Even if you did, it would take you a month to do so and half of them are not worth reading. Many consist of the posts of Steele cheerleaders and are silly and off topic. To seach for the posts of Hadding, select 'search' next to 'rating' (four gold stars). Select 'advanced search' and put Hadding in the 'search by user name' window. You will get 116 posts. Hadding was the first to figure out that Steele had gone crazy. He must have just guessed correctly. I am the one who reduced it to an exact science.

[Donald E. Pauly]

I have not been able to lay my hands on the video of the deposition of Steele's honey Tatyana done from the Ukraine. I missed this story from his local fishwrap. The local reporter spelled her name wrong.Their reporter attended the trial and provide a few tidbits that were not in the transcript. Steele sued this paper for libel some time before he was arrested and lost.

Tatyana testified that Steele lied to her about being married. This is not the way that you conduct a Ukrainian bride scam investigation and the jurors must have gotten quite a kick out of the story. What a shame that Tatyana never got her "Eddy Bear". It is another proof that Steele was crazy that he wrote her from his jail cell about visiting her the following month (August) in the Ukraine.

Steele's daughter Kelsey did the best job of authenticating the recordings. She said that the train whistle should not have been there. The prosecution introduced the train schedule showing that it passed by precisely at the time that it was heard on the recording. It also didn't help when she admitted that she had brought her father a Russian book in jail so he could better write Tatyana.

http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/...cc4c03286.html

Woman: Steele said he was divorced

Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:00 am

By DAVID COLE Hagadone News Network | 0 comments

BOISE — Two young women, one a beautiful blonde Ukrainian, played significant roles on Monday during the murder-for-hire trial of former Richard Butler and Aryan Nations lawyer Edgar J. Steele in federal court in Boise.

Jurors heard from his daughter, 20-year-old Kelsey Steele, of Oregon City, Ore., who also is the daughter of Cyndi Steele, the person prosecutors say Edgar Steele targeted in his alleged murder-for-hire plot. And via a video-recorded deposition, jurors got to hear from the woman prosecutors have said 65-year-old Steele was gushing over in an online courtship, 25-year-old Tatiyana Loganova, of Lugansk, Ukraine.

Kelsey Steele testified that she doesn’t believe the audio recordings, gathered secretly by a hitman who turned into a FBI informant against her father, are entirely authentic. “It’s just not the way that he talks,” Kelsey Steele said. She also thought some of the background sounds, including a train going by, were suspicious. She didn’t recall being able to hear trains from the Steeles’ Sagle home.

She, along with her mother, supports Steele “100 percent,” she told the jury in U.S. District Court. Kelsey Steele, who works as an assistant manager at a retail clothing shop, said she’s heard the recordings several times of her father and his handyman turned alleged hitman Larry Fairfax, 50, discussing the alleged plot on her mother. Fairfax is to be sentenced for a car bomb he attached to Cyndi Steele’s SUV, which was discovered June 15 when she was getting an oil change in Coeur d’Alene.

Jurors listened to Loganova as she described establishing communications with Steele in the spring of 2010, after meeting on a dating website. She said they communicated by Skype and e-mails until his arrest; then he sent her letters. She doesn’t read or speak English, so she needed a translator from a dating agency to assist her.

Kelsey Steele said that she sent her father books on Russian, paid for by supporters of his.

Loganova said Steele told her he lives alone and is divorced. In a letter, shown to the jury, Steele tells her he wants to have a permanent home with her in Ukraine. He promised to live in that country most of the year, so she can be close to her family. He also wanted them to spend time in the U.S. with his kids. He told her, in his letters, that he would provide for them with money from the books he’d write. He said there would be plenty for her to do while he wrote: Make love to him, take care of their kids, and go to school.

She discussed his plan to travel to Ukraine to visit her in August 2010. Steele’s defense has said he was only in contact with Loganova and other “Russian brides” for researching a case, and he planned to write a book on the topic.

“Your surprise is a teddy bear that I have named Eddie Bear,” Steele wrote in a letter to Loganova. She never got the gift after he was arrested, he wrote, because his “ex-wife” never mailed it as he understood she would. He wrote that he was arrested on a phony charge. He told her the U.S. government has been gunning for him for a long time because of his outspoken criticism of the government in his writings and public speeches.

“I miss you so much,” he wrote to her from jail. “I seem to dream about you every night. I found myself daydreaming about you being near me... It has been nearly 3 weeks since we last saw each other via Skype.”

Prosecutors have sought to show through witness testimony and evidence that Steele wanted his wife dead. He was tired of her and believed she might have a boyfriend in Portland, where she had been spending a lot of time taking care of her mother, who was sick. He hoped an auto insurance policy would pay out upon her death, and that he could end up with Loganova, prosecutors have sought to show.

He added in a letter to Loganova that he can’t help imagining her “climbing in (bed) beside me and what it would be like to hold you and see your smile up close and kiss me.”

Jurors have heard four recordings of Steele. Two are of Steele and Fairfax discussing the alleged plot. The authenticity of two other audio recording has not been disputed. In those, Steele talks with his wife and son while Steele was locked up at the Kootenai County jail.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Traci Whelan said the jurors can make up their own minds on whether it’s Edgar Steele speaking to Larry Fairfax at the Steele property on June 9 and 10, comparing those recordings with the jail calls days later.

The government rested its case just after 11 a.m. Monday.

Prosecutors said at the beginning of the day Monday, outside the jury’s presence, that they had reviewed Larry Fairfax’s writings that he planned to weave into a fictional book. Whelan told the court there was nothing within the 200-plus pages that would constitute exculpatory evidence.

Steele is facing up to possibly the rest of his life in prison if found guilty of the four felony counts against him.

His trial resumes today with defense witnesses.

[Bev]

That's a good find. Thanks. His daughter would certainly know her father's voice and be able to pick up on any strange inflections. More proof, in my view, that there is something odd about that tape.

[Donald E. Pauly]

Originally Posted by Bev

That's a good find. Thanks. His daughter would certainly know her father's voice and be able to pick up on any strange inflections. More proof, in my view, that there is something odd about that tape.

BTW, this is not strictly a new find. This has been posted from the transcript but the article had a few new tidbits. Kelsey was one of the most damaging witnesses against her father. When she denied the train whistle was supposed to be there, she TOTALLY discredited her entire testimony. Steele studying the Russian book that she brought him also put some more nails in his coffin. He is on trial for his life and he studies a Russian book to talk to Tatyana.

If Steele was sane, he would have testified and let the jury hear him reading the transcript of the recordings. He knew that the prosecution would rip him to shreds. That would have been true even in the old days when he was sane. As crazy as he was, it would have been far worse. Had he testified, the jury would have known for sure that he was crazy. They were not asked to find out whether he was crazy, only whether he did what he was accused of.

[Hadding]

Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly

Hadding was the first to figure out that Steele had gone crazy. He must have just guessed correctly. I am the one who reduced it to an exact science.

Haha, it wasn't that hard to figure out.

Years ago I use to read a lot of old psychiatric literature and I knew from my reading that physical traumas could induce psychotic episodes in people not too tightly wrapped (which seemed possible in Steele's case), or otherwise affect the mind. Steele's behavior in early 2010 clearly was not well considered, and given that he'd had a life-threatening health-trauma only a few months earlier the possibility of a causal relationship was quite obvious.

After I talked about that to Jim Giles, he interviewed a forensic psychiatrist named Williams who talked about mini-strokes as a consequence of cardiovascular surgery, which could alter somebody's personality. The consideration of mini-strokes as a mechanism was a refinement in my hypothesis.

I think it remains an hypothesis though, until somebody produces a CAT-scan or some other test-result that demonstrates damage to Steele's brain or mind.

If Steele's friends had been a little more reverent of the truth and a little less reverent of Steele's title esquire, and had called his bullshit instead of indulging it, Steele might be a free man today. Sometimes yes-men can be a man's worst enemies, and his critics the ones that do him the most good.

I am not however interested in accusing Mrs. Steele of consciously sinister intent in the matter. I think that's going too far.

[Katy]

Originally Posted by Hadding

If you looked at this thread very much, you know my view.

Ah, I like brevity. It is the essence of wit.

I reviewed your comments post facto and, unless you changed your position, I can harldy take issue with your take on the Steele case. Your skepticism turned out to be more warranted than my optimism. I was devastated.
I am a good-believing woman, like Cindy, and I don't have a wicked mind ... which made it all the more inconceivable to me that Steele was capable of such an act.

The same applies to your skepticism of Harold, when you warned me of his shenanigans and sockpuppetry several months ago. I doff my hat.

Sometimes I really wonder whether I belong here. Each time I try to defend a Movement figure against allegations, I am thwarted at every turn by more revelations of lies, deceit and devastating evidence of corruption. I am genuinely tired of the swindles. I am an honest woman, and I prefer to deal with honest people. If I want to be conned, I know some car dealers who would not disappoint me.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but it seems as if I can't rely on anything anyone says anymore. I shake my head in bewilderment at what a kook magnet this movement of ours has become. Have (any of) you ever felt this way?

Thanks for hearing me out.

Katy

[Bardamu]

Originally Posted by Katy

Ah, I like brevity. It is the essence of wit.

I reviewed your comments post facto and, unless you changed your position, I can harldy take issue with your take on the Steele case. Your skepticism turned out to be more warranted than my optimism. I was devastated.
I am a good-believing woman, like Cindy, and I don't have a wicked mind ... which made it all the more inconceivable to me that Steele was capable of such an act.

The same applies to your skepticism of Harold, when you warned me of his shenanigans and sockpuppetry several months ago. I doff my hat.

Sometimes I really wonder whether I belong here. Each time I try to defend a Movement figure against allegations, I am thwarted at every turn by more revelations of lies, deceit and devastating evidence of corruption. I am genuinly tired of the swindles. I am an honest woman, and I prefer to deal with honest people. If I want to be conned, I know some car dealers who would not disappoint me.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but it seems as if I can't rely on anything anyone says anymore. I shake my head in bewilderment at what a kook magnet this movement of ours has become. Have (any of) you ever felt this way?

Thanks for hearing me out.

Katy

You have reached the stage of awareness with WN. It is full of kooks. When a person reaches the stage you are at they quit going to meet-ups. At least that is when I quit. But still, there isn't anywhere else to go, and you can take some solace in the fact that there are indeed many decent people in WN, despite the kooks. You just have to find them. Basically it is a lonely political existence.

[Donald E. Pauly]

Originally Posted by Katy

Ah, I like brevity. It is the essence of wit.

I reviewed your comments post facto and, unless you changed your position, I can harldy take issue with your take on the Steele case. Your skepticism turned out to be more warranted than my optimism. I was devastated.
I am a good-believing woman, like Cindy, and I don't have a wicked mind ... which made it all the more inconceivable to me that Steele was capable of such an act.

The same applies to your skepticism of Harold, when you warned me of his shenanigans and sockpuppetry several months ago. I doff my hat.

Sometimes I really wonder whether I belong here. Each time I try to defend a Movement figure against allegations, I am thwarted at every turn by more revelations of lies, deceit and devastating evidence of corruption. I am genuinly tired of the swindles. I am an honest woman, and I prefer to deal with honest people. If I want to be conned, I know some car dealers who would not disappoint me.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but it seems as if I can't rely on anything anyone says anymore. I shake my head in bewilderment at what a kook magnet this movement of ours has become. Have (any of) you ever felt this way?

Thanks for hearing me out.

Katy

In spite of the fact that Steele tried to kill his wife, he is blameless. He is crazy. His wife and lawyers are not innocent. His plot reads like it was thought up by a six-year-old not an experienced criminal lawyer.

[M. Gerard]

There is only one problem with your little theory. Steele is not nuts.

[Hadding]

Originally Posted by Katy

Sometimes I really wonder whether I belong here. Each time I try to defend a Movement figure against allegations, I am thwarted at every turn by more revelations of lies, deceit and devastating evidence of corruption. I am genuinely tired of the swindles.

That's why Dr. William Pierce always emphasized that his organization was not part of "the Movement," and tried to recruit as much as possible from the mainstream. The so-called Movement, he said, was populated with defective people. That is largely true. Probably the main reason why it's true is that "the Movement" as such is not organized and therefore has no quality-control, so that bad people can accumulate while the good get disgusted and leave.

Tubbington by contrast, whom you once supported, specifically tells his supporters to collect e-mail addresses for him from sources that are already on the fringe, and caters to whatever the prevalent notions among them happen to be. The Steele frame-up story is a major example of that. I think some well known personalities stayed on the Steele bandwagon simply because it was easier than bucking the trend and telling people that they were wrong. (Perhaps it would have meant a drop in donations or website-traffic.) In effect, we have yes-men and opportunists posing as leaders.

[Jimmy Marr]

Originally Posted by Katy

I shake my head in bewilderment at what a kook magnet this movement of ours has become.

I have a nationalist friend who is a native of Lithuania and was a second generation Soviet dissident. Father and uncle did time in gulags. He tells me it was the same in the Soviet Union. The dissident movement was chocked full of egomaniacs, paranoid nut-cases and weirdos of every possible description.

If we were normal, we wouldn't be here. It comes with the territory.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Bardamu

You have reached the stage of awareness with WN. It is full of kooks. When a person reaches the stage you are at they quit going to meet-ups. At least that is when I quit. But still, there isn't anywhere else to go, and you can take some solace in the fact that there are indeed many decent people in WN, despite the kooks. You just have to find them. Basically it is a lonely political existence.

If you think there are fewer kooks among Republicans and Democrats than among WN you are as kooky as Ed Steele has not been proven to be.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Hadding

That's why Dr. William Pierce always emphasized that his organization was not part of "the Movement," and tried to recruit as much as possible from the mainstream. The so-called Movement, he said, was populated with defective people. That is largely true. Probably the main reason why it's true is that "the Movement" as such is not organized and therefore has no quality-control, so that bad people can accumulate while the good get disgusted and leave.

Tubbington by contrast, whom you once supported, specifically tells his supporters to collect e-mail addresses for him from sources that are already on the fringe, and caters to whatever the prevalent notions among them happen to be. The Steele frame-up story is a major example of that. I think some well known personalities stayed on the Steele bandwagon simply because it was easier than bucking the trend and telling people that they were wrong. (Perhaps it would have meant a drop in donations or website-traffic.) In effect, we have yes-men and opportunists posing as leaders.

People closest to Pierce: Gliebe and Stroms.

Not very solid ground to make your stand on.

NA was every bit as bad as the rest of the movement, I speak from direct personal experience.

[Alex Linder]

Tubbington by contrast, whom you once supported, specifically tells his supporters to collect e-mail addresses for him from sources that are already on the fringe, and caters to whatever the prevalent notions among them happen to be. The Steele frame-up story is a major example of that. I think some well known personalities stayed on the Steele bandwagon simply because it was easier than bucking the trend and telling people that they were wrong. (Perhaps it would have meant a drop in donations or website-traffic.) In effect, we have yes-men and opportunists posing as leaders.

Loyalty is a concept you're not familiar with. Even as you take bows for being the first to suggest one of the more signfiicant, upright and intelligent members of the movement had gone crazy, you neglect the fact that there is not one iota of proof that is the case.

The problem with our movement is that it will not accept the need to base itself on principles rather than people, and let adherence to those principles protect and define it, thereby making it comprehensible and attractive to an unstable and always shifting right wing. Part of the stability we could have comes from ostracizing known defectives, among which Covington would certainly qualify. He has duly been ostracized by VNN, which is the one and only place in our non-movement where politics is executed correctly.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr

I have a nationalist friend who is a native of Lithuania and was a second generation Soviet dissident. Father and uncle did time in gulags. He tells me it was the same in the Soviet Union. The dissident movement was chocked full of egomaniacs, paranoid nut-cases and weirdos of every possible description.

If we were normal, we wouldn't be here. It comes with the territory.

"Politics aint beanbag." -- said back around 1900

This stuff is not for thin-skinned people. That much can be said with certainty.

[Hadding]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Loyalty is a concept you're not familiar with. Even as you take bows for being the first to suggest one of the more signfiicant, upright and intelligent members of the movement had gone crazy, you neglect the fact that there is not one iota of proof that is the case.

This is kind of a strawman argument, the assumption that the effect of mini-strokes has to manifest in some obvious debility that nobody can miss.

You seem to forget about that Englishman that became queer as the result of a stroke, while seeming otherwise perfectly functional. Yes, a stroke can change somebody's personality.

If that can happen then a man's attitude toward his wife can certainly be affected. Furthermore, although Steele was still articulate, it has been obvious to me from the day I heard the jailhouse recording of his exchange with his wife that the state of his self-control and judgment at the time was abysmal. For somebody that has been to law school, he was acting like an idiot.

Since I don't think he really is an idiot, I am driven to the inference that there was something wrong with his mind at the time.

This has all been explained before.

[Jimmy Marr]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

If you think there are fewer kooks among Republicans and Democrats than among WN you are as kooky as Ed Steele has not been proven to be.

I bet this is especially true with regard to activist level Republicans and Democrats. The perceived difference in kookiness could derive from the fact that huge numbers of Kwans consider themselves to be Democrats or Republicans based solely on how they vote or would vote if they actually did vote, which even then is an apolitical act.

While the kookiness factor could be constant, the identity threshold for White Nationalism is higher.

To look at it in a slightly different manner, we could say that a kwan's political identification might derive from something as superficial as his preference in televitz news channels, whereas White Nationalists traditionally haven't even had a channel to choose from.

If the threshold of group identity is higher, the personal eccentricity level will need to be higher for inclusion, thus an increase in "kookiness" would be expected among entry level participants.

[Bev]

From the BBC (insert the obligatory ) "story" about a stroke turning someone homosexual:

There are few known cases of a stroke turning a straight person gay, and major personality changes in stroke sufferers are rare. Even Jak Powell, Birch's fiance, believes his partner may always have been gay.

"I've still got the same opinion that it was just something that was always there," says Powell.

"People grow up not knowing they are gay and have families and then they realise they are gay, but they don't have a stroke to realise that.

Hardly scientific evidence, is it? It's far more likely that a serious illness (the stroke) caused the young man to subconsciously re-evaluate his life and what he wanted from it, as it has for so many others.

Perhaps Steele re-evaluated his life and decided he wanted to be rid of his wife whilst keeping his assets intact.

Perhaps someone thought that now, whilst he was somewhat debilitated, was the ideal time to take him out of the picture.

It's impossible to tell.

I heartily doubt he is insane, since the post-arrest videos of him show him to be as sane, eloquent and lucid as he always was and the people closest to him have not mentioned any behavioural changes and indeed, believe in his innocence.

[Bardamu]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

If you think there are fewer kooks among Republicans and Democrats than among WN you are as kooky as Ed Steele has not been proven to be.

I don't know one way or the other about Steele. I have barely followed the story. My point was addressing the in general kookism element in WN. To seriously discuss the issue one would first need to define exactly what a kook is. There would be a lot of different interpretations of what that might mean. You have noticed a somewhat intractable element in the personalities of WN splinter groups, right? The whole political tendency of WN is a collection of splinter group, unlike with the Repukes and Rats. That splintering tendency is the real-world manifestation of what I'm lazily calling kookism.

[Donald E. Pauly]

Originally Posted by M. Gerard

There is only one problem with your little theory. Steele is not nuts.

You, Varg and Mr Linder must not have read this thread. You can read the 3,000 posts in a month and the transcripts and court files in another month at http://steelewentcrazy.org/steele . Had you done so you would realize that it is beyond argument that Steele is crazy as a shit house rat.

It is undisputed that Steele admitted the following behavior in open court. Let us ask the three of you the following questions.

1.Would a sane experienced criminal defense attorney write steamy love letters to his Ukrainian girlfriend from his jail cell, while awaiting trial for trying to blow his wife up with a pipe bomb?

2.Would that same attorney be sane if he dared the judge to break the Guinness Book of World records in the sentence that he gave out?

If this doesn't do the job, I have 40 more proofs at the ready. This doesn't count the hundreds of lies told by Cyndi in her testimony as well as her begging bowl videos and rants. Dozens of these are easily demonstrable.