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Old July 22nd, 2009 #41
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by George Witzgall View Post
private companies look out for the public interest better than government. just look at how Enron stepped up to the plate when california deregulated its power.
Someone living in California told me that after deregulation, the cost of power to consumers tripled.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; July 22nd, 2009 at 11:22 AM.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #42
Mike Parker
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
The winners don't want that. They recognize that government is demonstrably defective every single one of its functions, hence close to unnecessary. White men + freedom + technology = no need for government.
Winners favor heathy paternalism. They have the biggest stake in a cohesive society. It's middling types--lawyers, intellectuals--who harbor resentments and make trouble.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #43
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
I'm becoming convinced that hardcore libertarians are just as tardy and out of touch with reality as the Marxists.
Exactly. Frankfurt School, "Austrian" School, government always bad, government always good...all Jewish revolutionary dogmas.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #44
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
Could someone here explain to me what would be the advantage of privatizing a local fire department or water works? I don't know if Alex or Rick go as far as advocating that, but Murray Rothbard certainly did.
Do you know anything about the way fire departments operate these days?
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #45
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BTW, I don't see why we're even having this debate. Alex's vision, if I understand it correctly, is to have a very limited central government, and let communities govern themselves however they see fit.

That way, if a community wants to try an Adam Smith economy, it is free to do so. If it wants high taxes, a large, intrusive government bureaucracy, and lots of public services, it is also free to do so. To each his own.

The important questions, then, are how much power a central government should have, and what its areas of authority should be. Alex mentioned defense. Is there anything else?
Racial dictatorship at the top - a one-function government, but that one function, defense, construed to include trade. Certainly no companies will be allowed to undermine the racial basis of the state by hiring nonwhites at low wages, nor by trading freely with foreigners using slave labor.

Beneath the national level, I propose that whites arrange themselves as they see fit, into states. The smaller the better, in many cases. I will live with those who want close to zero government, the losers can join communities that want government to supply schools, welfare, health care, and "safety" regulation. When those things produce the results they always do, only those who chose to live in the state will suffer. As it is now, with a collectivized, centralized government, everybody is subject to the costly panaceas of the morons.

In the state I envision, the only thing denied white men, because of my beliefs, is his ability to live around niggers. I'm willing to kill over that because if I'm not, the mixer's choices will render my country unlivable. Absolutely no nonwhites will be allowed in the new state, save tourists, on terms set by the Defenders, the ones running the national government.

As for those socialist health care countries, you're correct, most people in them will defend their system. Right up until they need to use it. Then they'll sneak down to the US because they're sick of suffering or the treatment they want isn't on the approved list. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #46
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Igor, I have a half-fleshed out vision, and I will lay it out in the forum I created for the purpose as soon as I have the energy. The basics of it are this:

1) national/federal/overstate government. One function, construed as broadly as need be: defending the White racial basis of the state from all enemies, intellectual, economic, and military. History shows that Germanic peoples are capable of running essentially competent civil services, but there needs to be an admixture of holiness. How best to infuse this I'm still considering. Dual approach of spirit and stick will provide the best outcome, understanding that all people are corrupt, and no system devised by humans cannot be subverted. It is the job of each new generation to understand the tradition it inherits, to preserve and burnish it, if it can, or to go another way, if need be.

2) states/micro-states/city-states/communities beneath the Defender umbrella. One size does not fit all with white men. For Whites to flourish, they need freedom. They can only be white men if they are forced to rely on their own resourcefulness, and any government that binds this strength and cunning in the name of safety is anti-White.

With dozens or hundreds of different states/communities to choose from, Whites can group themselves as they see fit. And if the model they choose doesn't work, they can relocate to another, if it will have them. In this way those I designate losers, roughly the left half of the bell curve, can join together and have their micro-state "save" them from those evil pill manufacturers, and ward off their 1001 little-man fears. They can employ their obese sisters and retarded mothers in the "public schools" and recreate the kind of moronic robots we see today. The winners, roughly the right half of the bell curve, who just need government to leave them alone, can go their own way. They can form communities with minimal government, and take advantage of all the economic laws astute economists and historians have discovered but never been able to put into practice given the nature of the System we labor under today.

What I lay out is a mixture of new and old. It's not utopian, as best I can tell. It's an attempt to fit the best of White into some new forms made possible by genuine intellectual discoveries we will only be able to apply after the Jewish Tyranny is destroyed.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #47
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"What I am saying is that the working class at one time had valid complaints against their employers, and that much of the progress that was brought about by the labor movement is being taken for granted today by guys like you. I can't believe anyone would think it was a good idea to return to the types of working conditions that existed 100+ years ago in the name of some libertarian ideal."

Elephant shit. I call it The Tragic Correlation:

A kike named Richard Goodwin, associated with the New Frontier and Great Society exclaimed "we created the middle class."

Look at the standard of living- compare today with 150 years ago. Higher? Yes, that is true. The question is- how did this happen?

Three things can be charted on a graph, over 150 years:
1. Rise in living standards
2. Rise in "for the people" legislation
3. Rise in productivity due to technological innovation

All are correlated over time. But we all know that correlation doesn't prove causation. The left says 2. caused 1.
ELEPHANT SHIT
In fact, 3. caused 1. The left says if 2. were removed, the standard of living would be the same as 150 years ago
ELEPHANT SHIT
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #48
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
If it weren't for the labor movement, wouldn't we still have 7-year-olds working 14 hour shifts in factories under deplorable conditions (kinda like in the Third World today)?
You're taking one particular point in the development of industry and identifying it with an -ism you want to criticize. That makes no sense. We started from almost nothing in 1800 - to where we are today, 200 years later. Capitalism, or the market, is very fast moving, this is its glory, compared to the lazy sinkholes of communism, nescience and fart-gas that constitute academia. The remarkable thing is not that there were difficult conditions along the way, but how quickly they gave way to better conditions.

We hear about evil corporations dumping and polluting. If you think about it, the real horrors are what governments do: burning down Yellowstone, murdering the Aral Sea, bombarding its own people and foreigners with radioactive material. Anything private is far more likely to be well maintained than anything public.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #49
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Absolutely no nonwhites will be allowed in the new state, save tourists, on terms set by the Defenders, the ones running the national government.
It goes without saying that allowances should also be made for diplomats and travelling businessmen.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
As for those socialist health care countries, you're correct, most people in them will defend their system. Right up until they need to use it. Then they'll sneak down to the US because they're sick of suffering or the treatment they want isn't on the approved list. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
No argument here. Canada's health care system is trash and is falling apart, just as many of the ones in Europe are. Certainly non-white immigration (i.e., muds using the system but not paying into it) is a contributing factor, but socialized health care isn't a good idea to begin with.

It's not just patients that go South for teatment; Canada has a hard time keeping doctors and medical staff onboard because they all go work in the States (higher salaries).
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #50
Igor Alexander
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You're taking one particular point in the development of industry and identifying it with an -ism you want to criticize.
No, no, no. I am pointing out that "capitalism" has its faults. That's all.

Honestly, I think you and Rick are far too eager to attribute to capitalism things that might have other causes. There was lots of technological innovation in the Third Reich, and the Third Reich did not have a capitalist economy. Even the Soviet Union made its share of innovations.

Technological innovation is a product of race, not of economics.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
The remarkable thing is not that there were difficult conditions along the way, but how quickly they gave way to better conditions.
Yes, but how did they give way to better conditions? Rick says the labor movement had nothing to do with it. Well if not the labor movement, then what? Neither you nor Rick have answered that.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
We hear about evil corporations dumping and polluting. If you think about it, the real horrors are what governments do: burning down Yellowstone, murdering the Aral Sea, bombarding its own people and foreigners with radioactive material. Anything private is far more likely to be well maintained than anything public.
I think either have the potential for good or evil. I don't want big business intruding in my life anymore than I want big government intruding into it.

And the stereotypes about evil corporations aren't always unfounded. I could tell you some stories about my phone company.

I'd also be curious to hear yours and Rick's take on issues like GMOs and DNA patenting.
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #51
Igor Alexander
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Do you know anything about the way fire departments operate these days?
No. What's wrong with them, other than that they're forced to hire muds?
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #52
Igor Alexander
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In this way those I designate losers, roughly the left half of the bell curve...
And also the female side of the sex divide. Females tend to gravitate towards safety, even if it's only the illusion of safety, while men tend to gravitate towards freedom even at the expense of safety.

Why are women such big fans of socialized health care? Because they like to go to the doctor for every little ache and blemish. Men are the opposite; they refuse to go see a doctor even when reason tells them they should.

A community devoid of socialism necessarily entails stripping women of political power.
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #53
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Rick Ronsavelle View Post
Look at the standard of living- compare today with 150 years ago. Higher? Yes, that is true. The question is- how did this happen?

Three things can be charted on a graph, over 150 years:
1. Rise in living standards
2. Rise in "for the people" legislation
3. Rise in productivity due to technological innovation

All are correlated over time. But we all know that correlation doesn't prove causation. The left says 2. caused 1.
ELEPHANT SHIT
In fact, 3. caused 1. The left says if 2. were removed, the standard of living would be the same as 150 years ago
ELEPHANT SHIT
The left may say that, but I never did. You still haven't answered the question (unless your inclusion of #2 on this list is an admission that the labor movement did, in fact, play a role in improving working conditions for the lower classes).
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #54
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No, no, no. I am pointing out that "capitalism" has its faults. That's all.
They're only faults if there was a choice to do otherwise. Just because one condition looks bad doesn't mean there were better alternatives.

Quote:
Yes, but how did they give way to better conditions? Rick says the labor movement had nothing to do with it. Well if not the labor movement, then what? Neither you nor Rick have answered that.
The ordinary man today has access to things that kings didn't have two hundred years ago. That's not due to labor, that's for darn sure. It's due to profit-motivated developers and manufacturers, not governments and labor.

Quote:
I think either have the potential for good or evil. I don't want big business intruding in my life anymore than I want big government intruding into it.
Do you not perceive the difference between being offered something and being forced to do something at gunpoint? That's the difference between a corporation and a government.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #55
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"Do you not perceive the difference between being offered something and being forced to do something at gunpoint?"

The left doesn't know, and doesn't want to know. The companies are oppressive, the state liberating. "Satanic inversion." Or, orthodox Marxism.

>>The subject of zero-sum economics needs to be broached. As far as I can fathom, all socialists believe in one central idea- that is, that the gain of one comes at the expense of the other, and that there is only a fixed amount of wealth to go around. An example is from Catholic Social Teaching: "All the goods were placed on Earth by G$d for the use of all of the people." Therefore, all deserve an equal share.

It's like a lifeboat, where there is truly is fixed supply of goods. Let's say one person on such a boat hides food while others are asleep. This leads to starvation of at least one other. The person that hoarded the food represents the capitalist screwing of the others. . .The capitalist gets an unfair share, causing misery and poverty. This has to be remedied by Robin Hood type programs. . .This is the class struggle of Marx. . .

Let us discuss.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #56
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John Médaille was a notorious anti-racist at Takimag. I remember arguing with him on a number of occasions.
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Old July 22nd, 2009 #57
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Originally Posted by Mike Parker View Post
Winners favor heathy paternalism. They have the biggest stake in a cohesive society. It's middling types--lawyers, intellectuals--who harbor resentments and make trouble.
Paternalism can just as often be racially destructive - what were the plantation owners if not destructive? What are the Bushes? Both were paternalists, both were racially destructive.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #58
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Exactly. Frankfurt School, "Austrian" School, government always bad, government always good...all Jewish revolutionary dogmas.
Nah, it's demonstrable government is lousy at everything, has nothing to do with jews, who benefit exclusively from centralization and collectivization. If you disagree, list one thing government is good at.
 
Old July 22nd, 2009 #59
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The ordinary man today has access to things that kings didn't have two hundred years ago. That's not due to labor, that's for darn sure. It's due to profit-motivated developers and manufacturers, not governments and labor.
Can you not say that both groups are contributors to our success? Where would the coal mine be without the miner? Where would the skyscraper be without the welder on the 12th floor I-beam?

It is also true that inventors and developers have access to things today because labor works the assembly line to put the stuff together.

And who makes this land secure for all of us if not the working class that makes up the millions of front-line soldiers who fight on the battlefields while the bourgeois sit in the bleachers counting their war profits?

And do you really believe that if the government had no fair labeling laws that some business tycoon wouldn't sell mule meat in a can labeled "beef stew"?

Its all about balance. At some point individualism and collectivism must come together to form a complimentary whole, rather than remain as a conflicting pair of opposites.
 
Old July 23rd, 2009 #60
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Nah, it's demonstrable government is lousy at everything, has nothing to do with jews, who benefit exclusively from centralization and collectivization.
The Jew benefits from things being centralized under Jew control. The Jew benefits most from white individualism. The Jew did not prosper under German NS.

Quote:
If you disagree, list one thing government is good at.
Hitler's government shut down the Institute for Social Research (of the Frankfurt School) within 6 weeks (IIRC) of taking power. The capitalist Kwa welcomed those neo-Marxists with open arms and they remain highly influential today in our marketplace of ideas even after being thoroughly refuted.

I'll take the Austrian Hitler over the Austrian Mises, and Lincoln Rockwell over Lew Rockwell.
 
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