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May 28th, 2004 | #1 |
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David Duke and I Had Long Talk Last Night
Let's try our first moderated discussion on the subject of David Duke, the man and his approach.
At the last minute, one of our new moderators, Chain, offered to share costs on a late trip to New Orleans to the Duke Conference. Yesterday, attempting to make reservations, he was told by James Kelso, "Charles A Lindbergh" at Stormfront, that we were unwelcome. After a bunch of calling, I was finally able to get through to Kelso, and after some hostile back and forth, he set up a phone call from David Duke, whom I spoke with for a couple hours until his battery ran out. A few quick impression of Duke, and then I would like yours. -- Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there. As he is the guest of honor, I told him to rest easy, if he feels that way, it is better that we not attend. Duke is far more like me in personality and background than like Kelso or Strom or Gliebe. What appears to me to be the situation, and which I told Duke, is that his guys are feeding him lies about VNN and me and what we are doing. He feels strong loyalty to Don Black, and seems to believe that we have attacked Black. I said, I don't think I've ever written a word about Black that was critical until I saw his whining that we weren't kicked off the same server he was. Not only was that childish and inappropriate, it wasn't true. Anyway, I conveyed to him that he needs to read us and judge us for himself, just the way he wants to be treated, and take the well-poisoners with a shaker of salt. I believe he will do this. -- He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results. -- He's taken with the idea that our cause can sweep over the Aryan world in a very brief time, using the example of Islam and the Arabs in the 7th century, which covered their world in a generation. -- His books are enjoying huge success in Europe, and he's working on a new one putting forth a new racial creed, something that can attract and inspire our people. -- He takes a loose view of our side, and refers to it as the right. He says Francis is absolutely a racialist, and that Jared Taylor is not insidious, but confining his work to race. He sees it as newcomers picking up some race here, some jews there, and pretty soon grasping the whole problem, and so it is better not to criticize those on our side. -- He said he has 20 good years left. He's 53, and in very good shape, takes vitamins, and has come out of prison stronger and more determined than ever. It sounds like he's not going to formally ally with any group, nor build his own, but write and speak and travel. He will work with different people and groups on a project basis, and said he would look over VNN and see whether there were ways we could work together. I'd like to hear some of your responses to this information, and I'll throw in some more stuff later. |
May 28th, 2004 | #2 |
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I'd like to straightaway hear more of what he and you talked about.
Also, Alex- a number of VNN posters have "attacked" Don with photoshop and the like, and that is the crux of that specific charge, I think. |
May 28th, 2004 | #3 | |
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May 28th, 2004 | #4 | |
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I felt inspired, listening to Duke. The truth is, I felt that he should want me to come to his conference and speak there, because I can get people to feel that vision. But, at the moment he's wary. But he has the correct view, which is that we need to stop fighting over crumbs and look at the huge feast of hundreds of millions of unawakened Aryans our message rightly resounds with. It looks like to me the field is open for somebody to put together a party or faction representing the majority of awakened Whites, who recognize the need for racial dictatorship, but below that favor decentralization, which is liberty in practice. Last edited by Alex Linder; May 28th, 2004 at 04:12 PM. |
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May 28th, 2004 | #5 | |
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May 28th, 2004 | #6 |
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Georgie, I know full well some people here do not like Don, or MuadDib, JJT, CAL etc. There was the Bill White-initiated trouble last summer, and it was bad. I didn't like it at the time- I really did not, but what could I do?
It's not a healthy state when no criticism can be levied against any WN or org. It really is not. Some people on posting on both boards regularly rag atheists and Matt Hale- saying how stupid Matt was to say what he did to Ebola etc. I guess that's a valid criticism, and I consider Matt a personal leader of mine, but, even so- I don't jump in there screaming and denouncing everyone who has posted that thought about Matt. They have said atheist and/or pagan racists are "trash", "ignorant", a "discredit to the movement", "cultists", "hobbyists", "sideshows" etc. The fact is, a heck of a lot of White Racists are not christians. Do we feel the need to rise up and denounce those who impugn our beliefs? Maybe. Now and then. But what's the big deal? People are going to disagree bigtime on religion. Funny thing is- a lot of people saying these things are not themselves christians. Not by a long shot! But the words are maybe designed to influence "moderate" relative newcomers to racialism or the parts of our lives (e.g. our extended families, ceremonies etc.) being nominally christianic- Christmas with family, christian baptismals, burials etc. I do not agree with very bad character assassinations of prominent WN's. I think some awful things have been publically said about Strom which go way, way beyond the bare facts of his chronological comings and goings into and from certain levelled positions within the NA. I didn't like or believe Bill White's writings about Strom. My satires of CAL hardly qualify as "character assassinations". Unless one is hyper-touchingly thin-skinned. |
May 28th, 2004 | #7 | |
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http://www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/page17a.html " . . . the primary purpose of the invasion was not to establish a base of operations for white supremacists (although this was a secondary concern), but rather to set-up a series of lucrative businesses, including cocaine manufacturing plants, casinos, hotels, brothels, and a gunrunning operation, and to exploit the country's labour and natural resources for the benefit of the mercenaries and the financial backers. Considering the size of Dominica, which is only 300 square miles, and its limited military and police force, the coup was achievable.” Hell, I was banned from SF because I might have posted it over there. Was curious as to the reaction it would get, especially if I posted it at about 3a.m. in several different sections. I don't understand the problem, if he wanted to take over some tinpot Caribbean nation to set up brothels and process cocaine...why not just say so? He did his prison time already, no trouble could come of it.
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We need to live our lives. One foot in racism, the other in reality and normalcy. They go together when you drop the things and people we don't need. Currently 87% Sun, 13% Lightning. |
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May 28th, 2004 | #8 |
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The racialist theory stands on its own and needs no leaders, just propagators.
And voters. Last edited by Old White Goat; May 28th, 2004 at 04:39 PM. |
May 28th, 2004 | #9 | |||
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Good catch on that - Georgie, not a native English speaker, can learn, as we all can. I'm going to watch my spelling and punctuation in this forum. I hope you all will, although I'm not going to make it a hard and fast rule like with the others. You can always check at dictionary.com. Quote:
I can tell you very directly from my own experience that you can't get unalloyed virtues in humans except Jesus. And he wasn't a real person. To have the fortitude to resist and persist, as Duke has proven he has, in the face of combined Republican, Democrat and jew-media attacks for for decades, you have to be awfully darn sure of yourself. Itz like, you want all this good stuff and humility too? And perfect private morals too? It doesn't work like that. I know this from my own experience. When you've written an editorial and your whole newsroom hates you, the deans and college president write in to affirm that you're an "example of how far we have to go," how do you react? You have to have a huge scoop of "xxxx-you" deep inside. When almost everybody is against you and the ones who aren't fear to join you, how are you NOT going to develop an arrogance? Otherwise you'll be washed away. Quote:
Aryan truths, about Israel, race, and everything else. As for rallies, I don't know. I asked him if he intended to run for president. He said he doesn't believe in running to run, just to have your name on the ballot, but to win. And that means a specific campaign for a specific seat. I don't think he'll announce anything like that, although he agrees that a candidate focused specifically on the invasion from Mexico could make a showing. I asked him if he were going back to Russia. He didn't say he would, but he did say he is much better respected over there by people in official positions -- univerisity administrators, politicians and the like. He has taught and lectured over there extensively. My impression is he is going to work on his book and speak publicly wherever he can. I would not call that "literary club" at all. The guy is still in the game in a big way. He thinks he has twenty good years left, and wants to go out in a blaze of glory. I don't see any reason he's wrong with this. He is probably the best known jew-namer in the world, and he's going right back at it, and he gets nothing but praise from me for that. He's about 95% positive and uplifting, speaking about the great eugenic future we're on the cusp of, but then he'll thrown in Southern-inflected barrage about the need to "expose these sons of bitches [jews] who are trying to destroy our people." The guy's on the right track. He's operating globally, and must think in those terms. And he's not hiding on a mountain, but getting out there and mixing with people, making it happen. |
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May 28th, 2004 | #10 | ||
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Draco, I would have no problem in participating in a coup against a black gov't. somewhere in the world, though I couldn't participate in a staging from the US, as that is illegal.
That info about Don is generally known by people who read extensively. I see the original source author is pictured with Don and Duke, and that his article is used by permission of a Guelph, Ontario Multi Cult org. Did the author inject false info into the basic gist of the story? Did Ann Wilder, in her rewrite, do that? Why would Don and Duke have spoken with Lauder? Quote:
http://allwhois.com/cgi-bin/allwhois.cgi Ann Wilder is associated with some "Meditation Center in NC, maybe a pine cabin on the side of a mountain LOL, cause her "Mountainside Academy has no web location. See bottom of this post- she is also associated with a "Mark Goldstein" in a "writing project"- a SPLC or ADL frontmoneyed org? http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:fod5OWW0QpIJ:http://www.main.nc.us/cml/new_citize...sheville&hl=en Ann Wilder, Mediation Center; Registrant: Mountainside Academy (WN-D-92654934) 34 Harvard Place Asheville, NC 28806-2532 US Domain Name: THEGRENADAREVOLUTIONONLINE.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact: Wilder, Ann E. (18485050I) [email protected] 34 Harvard Place Asheville, NC 28806-2532 US 828-254-1379 fax: 123 123 1234 Record expires on 25-Dec-2004. Record created on 25-Dec-1999. Database last updated on 28-May-2004 17:36:43 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.MAIN.NC.US 209.192.109.135 NS4.EDELTACOM.COM 216.248.176.21[/quote] http://www.ncpress.net/contact.html Quote:
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May 28th, 2004 | #11 |
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I honestly think that Linder and Chain should go attend the event this weekend. For too long the "movement" has been tarnished with pointless and self serving drama. You have many different characters spreading rumors (true and untrue..) about one another. The internet has greatly worsened this problem. The best way how to deal with this problem, is to all get together. I really doubt that if Linder and Chain attend, CAL would tell them both to f*** off. Look, I am not condemning or taking any positions about any of the rumors and disunity in the movement. All I am saying is the best way how to resolve such issues, is to have everyone get together. Face to face meetings, usually will kill most of it.
Last edited by konkwista88; May 28th, 2004 at 06:19 PM. |
May 28th, 2004 | #12 | |
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1) Duke thinks his and our approaches clash. Right or wrong, whether his view changes after he reads through VNN, as I believe it will, that's how he feels today. Since it's his party, I'm going to respect that. 2) My main interest in going was listening to Duke. I got what I wanted to know from talking to him last night. Speaking and networking would be good, but there will be other times and places. 3) I can put the time into VNN, instead of not updating for five days when I'm on road. 4) save money for future projects. 5) I can use road time to write essay addressing the same thing the conference speakers will address. Which I will do. I will write a reaction to what Duke says, and what the rest of the speakers say. Bottom line is just what Duke says; no whining, just do it yourself better if you think someone's going about it wrong. The minute I feel the need to build my own party or group or business or whatever it is, I will do that. VNN will always be big, never small. Our thick-skinned, voluptuous Aryan questing will trump that of the thin-skinned totalitarians. Last edited by Alex Linder; May 28th, 2004 at 10:21 PM. |
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May 28th, 2004 | #13 | |
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If you do not mind my asking, how well did you know David Duke before he went to jail. It sounds as if most of his opinion about you came was second hand, which is probably why he believes your approach clashes with his. In my experience, the best way how to deal with this type of rumor problem, is to physically be around all the people involved. But as you said, there will be many more events in the future and other opportunities. Btw, have you ever considered setting up your own quasi-group in your immediate area? |
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May 28th, 2004 | #14 |
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I hope nationally it gets back to how it was at the rally on the capitol lawn.
Seems like everyone was pretty much together then, with only a few snipers complaining later on about swastika flags and tattoos abounding. I'd personally like to see all groups co-operating. I don't like that the BNP is running a jew, and I don't mind saying so, but I won't go on a never-ending tirade against the BNP, as I think that's counterproductive. But I'm not afraid to criticize them either. It's not going to help our planetary cause to spend an inordinate amount of time running each other into the ground. I'll still going to show up for some NSM events, and wear a giant, center-chested swastika t-shirt, even though they are upset with WR cause Billy asked them to come, but not wear swastikas, for this one event. We can't all be all things to all people. I certainly don't consider myself a moderate racist, but I don't want to be captious against others. I had honestly felt until recently that the National Alliance didn't want to cotton as members any who used the crudest of racial invective in public. If you look at my titles and stuff in the NNN Reporters' Forum, and from a few years ago on Stormfront, you can see that that's racial "vileness." It's maybe harder than I thought in trying to keep good relations with everybody. Not perfect relations, but "talking", essentially cooperative racist relationships. Going over the same ground- I can understand how some KKK might not like Creators, but, you know, the KKK I've met are respectful of the differences and vice-versa. Think how pleased the ADL and SPLC must be that this org/website quarreling has seemingly become so rooted. One more thing. Young skinhead and hammerhead racists are very, very important to the future, in my opinion. Because they are young, they may not be the most polished in social niceties, nor do they have a lifetime of living and reading behind them. But they'll be facing the expansion of the dark races, concomitant with the commonness of the racial radicalization of Whites (we hope). They are working class guys. So if they are rowdy in their youth, is this good or bad? I think it's mostly good. It's good that they are around. We should find ways to include them, and not just tell them to clean up their act and join AmRen (or what have you?). |
May 28th, 2004 | #15 | ||
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You are correct, I believe his impression of VNN and me comes primarily from Jamie Kelso, Don Black, and the NA clique. They are telling him that evil VNN people are attacking all the Good people in the movement, and that we're undoing the effort of their heroic clean-up crew, as they think themselves. Fact is, I come from richer, better educated background than all these people. They're judging me based on the types they're familiar with, which I don't fall into. Paranoia, insecurity, hostility to criticism -- all the stigmata of inferiority, as Mencken put it. These they exhibit in spades. You can't make a movement out of paranoids, weasels and lemmings. You have to go forth in public boldly, as Duke has done, and as VNN and White Revolution do. Duke is not a cultist, and for that reason, I don't see him teaming up with NA for anything substantial. Like I say, we had a very good conversation. He's far more like me in mentality and temperament than the Stroms. I believe I successfully planted a seed of doubt in Duke's mind about James Kelso, who may be of instrumental value to Duke at the moment, but who is, as I told Kelso, a lying weasel. He's the type of guy who tolerates insults to his face. He's a flitty, middle-aged phil-donahue newcover of 'unclear antecedents,' and I have no respect for him. I expect Duke will learn the truth soon enough. Quote:
Last edited by Alex Linder; May 28th, 2004 at 07:36 PM. |
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May 28th, 2004 | #16 |
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Infighting and going forward
I'm very angry that Duke was pressured to make Alex and Chain "personae non grata." I'm sure that this wasn't Duke's decision, but a result of pressure. He's just out of the joint and doesn't know what's going on, and his best friend went up to him and told him to do this. Oh well.
For me I am forced to take sides. This is way way uncool. And I do officially take sides. I take Alex's side, without reserve. This doesn't mean I'm going to start infighting, which is infantile. I'm not going to say a discouraging word about those who are working to keep Alex out of the loop. However, I am building my own thing here; several things, in fact. The degree of my public activism and public posting is inversely proportional to the stuff I am doing behind the scenes. All legal, all non-violent, and all innocuous, aside from the fact that it is a known WN doing them. All I can say to Alex's enemies is that they will be kept "out of the loop" for whatever I accomplish. That's all I can threaten, and right now it seems like nothing . Feel free to scoff. I stayed more or less neutral until May 28, 2004. Now I declare publicly -- I take the side of Alex Linder, and say that the enemies of Linder are acting like a bunch of jews. Y'all know who you are. Rob |
May 28th, 2004 | #17 |
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Rob, I don't think it was Don who kept me personally out. That was not Don.
I do think David Duke's conference will be a huge national success, and that the entire worldwide White movement will get a big media and membership bounce. That's great! |
May 28th, 2004 | #18 |
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Alex, thanks lots for filling us in. If you didn't, then who? I was curious about Duke and what direction he would go in after his release. He sounds like a good guy.
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May 28th, 2004 | #19 |
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You know what? You blow it when you attack other WN leaders. Get a clue people. Insults sting and they are often never forgiven. The vnners have been permanently caste out of that circle. That's the way it is.
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May 28th, 2004 | #20 | ||
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http://www.stormfront.org/forum/show...ht=jeff+schoep Quote:
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