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Old January 18th, 2016 #1
Alex Linder
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will dig up earlier segments, but back to this today (2016-01-18). going subtitle by subtitle

The Feminization of American Culture, by Ann Douglas

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch4b.mp3 (54m)

Notes: Ch4 (b): Conversion and Church Membership: From Testing to Playing. earlier calvinism insisted on dramatic conversion. shift to motherly approach. emphasis on love not judgment. kids naturally become church members. erasing difference between infant baptism and adult experience. doing away with older idea that you needed a dramatic conversion toward a milder, more feminine undramatic relation. increased importance of leisure and play as the religion grew less strict.

Last edited by Alex Linder; January 18th, 2016 at 11:33 AM.
 
Old January 19th, 2016 #2
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The Feminization of American Culture, by Ann Douglas

(c) Anti-Intellectualism and the Theology of Feeling

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch4c.mp3 (1:07)


Ch4(c): Anti-Intellectualism and the Theology of Feeling. Catherine Beecher, brilliant but didnt get to go to school. Ida vs Eva van Arsdel in fiction of Harriet Beecher Stowe (HBS), Uncle Tom's Cabin and more. The intellectual-feminist spinster vs the anti intellectual, popular, feelings-based Eva. the intellectual decline of calvinism had bad and broad effects on american society, acknowledges 70s feminist author Ann Douglas. god of law, rigor, intellection, justice yields to god of feelings, love, mercy. women exalted over men - but they must stay out of preaching! contradiction there. piety and intellect come to be seen as at odds, where formerly they were commonly united in the old stern puritan fathers who founded the country. congregations went for younger, dumber men in their 30s, rather than old gray wise ones. harvard divinity declined intellectually said Eliot in 1883, going downhill for last 40 years. old school attitude expressed by Cotton Mather: after piousness, second most important attribute of a clergyman is his wide general knowledge. pastor/preacher as intellectual. not as funny fun time clown entertainer boy. emmons and hopkins were two such old-schoolers, trained hundreds. shift to pastoring and writing and away from theology, among ministers. timothy dwight (in johnathan edwards line) as example. shift from exegesis based on idea that CORRECT interpretation of Scripture is job #1 to cult of "self-nurture" and Social Gospel. decline in intellectual ability; loss of felt need for intellectual understanding of theology and bible. more about feelings and emotions and impressions. 1) old man, studying bible 12 hours a day, barely eating; 2) young man, more womanish preaching god of love, exalting women, doing good works in community. old view: "the right interpretation of Scripture was the 'cornerstone of religion.'" essentially students demanded dumbed-down curriculum, with less focus on theology. parallel to college students after massive increase in college population after wwii. only so many people can handle truly advanced material. the rest, even if white, will niggerlike demand the dropping of standards THEY CANT MEET. ... Park-Hodge debate. theology of logic or feelings. Park came for feelings. Hodge showed where this would lead. 1852 synod of congregationalists dumps "calvinism" from statement of self-definition. a sign of spreading liberalism, per Park.
 
Old January 20th, 2016 #3
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The Feminization of American Culture, by Ann Douglas

(d) Anti-Institutionalism: The Pastor and the Sentimental Heroine

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch4d.mp3 (57m)

Ch4(d): Anti-Institutionalism: The Pastor and the Sentimental Heroine. new liberal minister puts "affections" over thoughts. that is, feelings. denominational differences matter less. ecumenicalism. and the concern with the poor. proto-social gospel, perhaps, even in 1820s. Joseph Tuckerman. dorothea dix. changing prisons and hospitals, helping the insane. these people didnt trust degrees, titles, institutions, they blazed thru like comets, preferring idiosyncratic individual passionate approaches, according to their own vision of what was necessary. they were effective. improve conditions by improving character. douglas: passionate precision alone justifies antipathy to institutional life. Ware, Jr. deal directly with poor or insane. anti-scholarship, preaching, pro-dealing with people directly, loving them, serving them.

Last edited by Alex Linder; January 20th, 2016 at 03:51 PM.
 
Old January 21st, 2016 #4
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The Feminization of American Culture, by Ann Douglas

Ch5: The Escape from History

The Static Imagination


a)

Teachers Without Texts

The Romantic Historians: History as Protestant Religion


http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch5a.mp3 (1:09)

Notes: Ch5: The Escape from History. subtitle one: Teachers without Texts. female values - nurturing, supportiveness. but against theorizing, the Victorians. personal and particular rather than social and programmatic. ministers similar to women and housewives as they desert theology and dogma (structure) for personal, emotional appeals. they lose their specific body of knowledge/expertise that gives them position and reason to compel respect. ministers and women authors may have been popular, but their words were insubstantial, dismissible. they dumped the gravitas of theological treatises for LCD emo garbage, essentially. This was the rise of mediocrity. no professional knowledge. no real admission of real goals. The Romantic Historians: History as Protestant Religion. americans were not concerned with theology (anti-intellectual). americans were interested in history, had huge number of historical societies which published much. hegel and tying philosophy/theology to history. change thru time. does every soul matter? yes to winthrop, no to hegel. it's all about the patterns arising from actual behavior. men dont necessarily know the ends they serve. we inspect god operating thru history, see much waste or no waste, according to hegel or winthrop. new focus on history. how does history relate to god/theology? can we see patterns - His working his way out using men thru time? opinions differed. "Of the seven most important figures in the development of post-Revolution American history -- George Ticknor, Edward Everett, Jared Sparks, George Bancroft, William Prescott, John Lothrop Motley, and Francis Parkman -- none were untouched by the new German historiography and the transformation of theology integral to it." (p.206). Four of the seven came from minister backgrounds, which they rejected for history, partly because ministry had become too liberal-effeminate. their fathers, real or metaphorical, might have prepared consolidated theological systems, but their sons would put that same effort into study of areas of history. German new or higher criticism - the search for historiicty of bible. search for actual FACTs - ranke's "wie es eigentlich gewesen war" - as it actually was - new way of looking at history, vs history as semi-biblical higher drama, tellnig of stories barely different from myths. where does change
come from? laws explain it, fact of it matters more. dialectic: synthesis coming from thesis and antithesis. these men worked 10-14 hour days and blew out their bodies in pursuing their vocations. great interest in dominant masculine energy as represented thru history, building of empires, violence, expansion. american history was political from first as regions sought control and definition of americanism, partly thru histories of their area's and men's role in revolution. idea of establishing facts by researching archives came to dominate history. intellectual power shifted from ministry to historian among these seven elite WASP writers, most of whom had background in ministry thru their families.

Last edited by Alex Linder; January 21st, 2016 at 11:36 AM.
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #5
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The Feminization of American Culture



Intro: The Legacy of American Victorianism: The Meaning of Little Eva

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...ture-Intro.mp3

(1:39)

- old-style Calvinism with masculine preachers, intellectual rigor, foundation of America's first and top universities, gives way, via complete disestablishment of Protestant churches by 1833, to a softened, sentimentalized, femized consumer mass culture dominated by a new alliance between a new breed of preachers and middle-class women. originally the religious DOCTRINE mattered in a church, when colonies in NE at least were founded; but this concern declined, and churchgoing became mere middle-class social function. feeling > thought. niceness > rigor. femininity > logic or masculinity, first within the cultural sphere (evolution from 1820 to 1875), then later, in 1900 on, in ENTIRE sphere (aided by jews, the feminized mindset for whites dominates not just the reading culture of middle class, but the entire, uh, Ideosphere). protestantism was a very different thing after than before. she puts dates at 1820 and 1875. different type of man becomes preacher; different concerns (serious theology vs catering to women clients/customers) in 1900 than in 1800. loss of status as preacher becomes another supplicant to the Shesus. from Edwardseans (sinners in the hands of an angry god - focused on INDIVIDUAL soul and sin and salvation) to namby-pamby anti-intellectual feelings-mush centered on love - which quickly perverted into Social Gospel around 1900. christianity in america evolved into something very useful to jews, just about the time they showed up. of course she doesnt touch on that part. ... douglas laments the rise of an anti-intellectual mass-consumerist, feminized but not feminist american culture; she wishes calvinist patriarchal intellectual rigor had opened to others rather than lowered. but can you have serious intellectual culture AND feminism at the same time? is intellectual culture consistent with non-patriarchal values, with matriarchy? douglas thinks so. but she might be wrong.

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...as#post1819696
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #6
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The Feminization of American Culture (1977)

Part One: The Sentimentalization of Status


Ch. 1: Clerical Disestablishment

[the chapters in this book are quite long so we'll break them up into multiple segments. this is Ch1a.]
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch1a.mp3 (59m)

- vocab: vitiation. how america became what it is today. softening. from logic to sentiment. from patriarchy to maudlin, soft, middle-class, feminine consumerism. outsiders and insiders agree that preaching has gone from men of strength and rigor to vaguely absurd pambies without anything substantial to say, catering to women. how america reached the state it was in when jews arrived in great numbers to pick up with their 'culture of critique.'

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=471

Last edited by Robbie Key; January 23rd, 2016 at 05:45 PM.
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #7
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Ch. 1: Clerical Disestablishment

[conclusion]


http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch1b.mp3 (1:36)

- liberal preachers deal with political, economic, social and personal consequences of disestablishment; they are essentially turned into women, and their thin bookish appeals are laughed at by the ruder, rougher evangelicals of the 'dissenting' sects (Baptists & Methodists), which then came to be called denominations. the churches were disestablished. voluntarism became the way. greater transience, less permanence, more uneasiness, more need to curry favor with congregation.

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...as#post1885329
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #8
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Ch. 2: Feminine Disestablishment

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...as-FAC-Ch2.mp3 (2:13)

- what is to be women's role in this new society? women are to be passive and submissive. they are to provide examples of moral elevation. they have their sphere and must remain in it. most women approved this. sarah hale, doctrine of the feminine sphere. far more adherents than elizabeth cady stanton, a suffragette - who is far better known because she was a proto-feminist, hence more useful to The Agenda pushers. women were sacred within their role but nothing outside it. at least that is what douglas argues. these traditionalists did reform education, but that was part of women's role - women's education. women were supposed to be christian. that was a proper concern. parallel in bond between pastor and flock and woman and husband/kids. women and preachers worked together in Temperance movement. to rescue woman victim of drunken man, as much as him. Linda Huntley Sigourney, pre-civil war writer, poet. Temperance tales. Hale: "a fiend and an angel." fiend is man, angel is woman. a spiritual creature and a brute. and hale was a moderate, a mainstreamer. this was the common view. "women must engineer their wellbeing in a world dominated by a sex essentially hostile to it" - mainstream view. man's world. ... house and church alike move from centers of activity to places of words rather than deeds. life is centered elsewhere in the community, in later 1800s, compared to 1600s. DISESTABLISHMENT: end of state-supported religion, paralleled by disestablishment, informally, of women, through their changing role and importance in home. shift from PRODUCER to CONSUMER is the status shift. from the center, more or less, to the periphery. but this was a northern, northeastern, middle-class status shift. life from 1800-65 was still about the same for other women in other areas. the Southern "lady" was still economically important, what with slaves, running the household. her role didnt change till after the civil war. 1800, only nyc and phi had >50k residents. people made homespun in 1800, but by 1830, production was more commercial/industrial than domestic, particularly in the NE. the US was moving from agricultural to mft in the NE, so the home declined as a locus of production. the position of women declined as production shifted from home to factory. Bushnell saw an "Age of Homespun" yielding to a complete social-domestic revolution brought on by the rise of commercial manufactures. the home ceased to be a factory, with its farm producing goods for it to turn into products. women were valued for economic reasons, when they ran households; but far less so when they simply bought things as consumers. Dotha, mother, vs Mary, wife, Bushnell, symbolize the shift from producer and director, intelligent and respected, to sentimental piece and influence, less respected or listened to. women were obviously economically visible, but became less visible as middle-class consumers. not as clear what they did or what its value was. Eliza Farnham. woman as bird (her eastern view) vs woman as woman (westerner she interviews' view). Sara Josepha Hale - keep women from the "contagion" of money-making, let men handle that. new role being worked out post-Age of Homespun. two separate roles: commerce for men, pethood for women. Female Academies. taught very different material to women. women were kept away from natural sciences, more taught language and literature and history. "Grace Greenwood" - trivial female education as means of oppression. Thorstein Veblen - woman as emblem of 'conspicuous consumption. different variety of dumbed-down education. today it's for all (non-jews). serious education for women did not make progress till decade after the civil war, says douglas. women were to be educated to better serve men, reformers and conservatives agreed. not to play big role as participants but rather as consumers and agents of moral influence: "a saint and a consumer." literary women: Sara Edgarton Mayo. reading as way to while away hours while men worked. 'sentimental domestic novels' dominated women's market, 1840-80. The Wide, Wide World (1850). first of best-selling domestic novels. character ellen - consumer who loves buying. Harriet Beecher Stowe: "undoubtedly the most gifted woman writer of the period." character Mary Scudder. women as functional and spiritual, men as shiftless thinkers. character Eva van Arsdel. woman the producer < woman the consumer. ... in consumer society, advertising is the most important institution, idea of David Potter. Shift from consumption to production, 1860-90. first rise of huge amounts of advertising during that period. advertising all about influence. writers says it's a distinct american trait - inability to focus and think for sustained period. George Powell, advertising pioneer. the feminine is the subconscious of capitalist society, which the advertiser must tap. Nathaniel Fowler, "most important figure in early American advertising" said women direct the buying of everything, even for men, hence should be aimed at. the 'influence' women were supposed to yield is the 'mother of advertising.' ... Lowell factories. for girls who would later generations attend Mount Holyoke and Vassar. to do good by stealth. girls should always 'move in curves.' 1845-75 "the great heyday of feminine authorship." vicarious lives, parasitic lives. victory without risk. rewards without effort. this is part of the middle-class woman's life promoted by certain female writers. cult of motherhood and maternity, strong as cult of democracy in mid-19th century america. paternal authority waned from jonathan edwards' time. a waning force in 19th century. women got flattery and worship in place of justice and equality. in reality women could demand almost anything (being nurses in Civil War, even the vote) as due their maternal nature. women took over primary education teaching - but only in US, NOT in other countries. ministers and women: from exerting power to exercising influence. substituting life for literature. a room of one's own? at least one is important in domestic sphere, if not society.

vocabulary: paean, panegyric, enormities, superannuated, concomitant, taciturn, didactic, obfuscate, palliative, sub rosa, epistolary, sedulous, mutatis mutandis, furbish, ratiocination, apotheosis, acumen, monomania, epistemology, suasion, grandiloquence, decorous, denouement

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...as#post1911170
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #9
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Ch. 3: Ministers and Mothers: Changing and Exchanging Roles

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...as-FAC-Ch3.mp3 (2:19)

- looks at 30 ministers and 30 literary women. all were self-conscious spokesmen. all pushed "liberal religious ends through literary means." reinterpreting and softening calvinism. women did mainly fiction and poetry, men less so. revolution in press, simultaneous to revolution in position of women and ministers: from private patrons pre-1800, to the growth of actual markets in the ordinary market sense. the rise of the technology facilitating mass production by mid-1800s. publishing was small-town printers, essentially vanity, until about 1840, then it became centralized in mass production facilities in handful of big cities (nyc, boston, phi). Main publishers at this time were NOT jews. They were protestants. Careys, Harpers, Everetts, Bonner. Harper: cheap prices, high circulation. They did educational series and "religious family series." 1820 best-seller = 5000 copies (Last of the Mohicans). 1845: 80,000 (Fern Leaves from Fanny's Portfolio). rise of NATIONAL markets, now that there are train tracks (1840s and '50s). feed the multitudes on the plain rather than pour nectar for the Olympians. advertising also arising at this time. growth and expansion of nation physically (trains, added states (louisiana purchase, california settlement) and in markets/technology. rise of popular writers, who wrote often, and for the public, and to make money. poe said the spirit of the age was wholly to "magazine literature." poe and others couldnt fully exploit this demand themselves, and somewhat looked down on those who could. 1800-1865, rise of literary magazines, "proliferation." mainly "domestic and religious." - again, this is BEFORE jews show up in large numbers (post-1880), and BEFORE jews dominate publishing. the growing mass-media truly serve the public - by giving it what it wants - and their media are NOT anti-christian, anti-family, anti-white. all that came in with the jews. the jews today LIE that they give the public what it wants, and direct the controlled left to blame CORPORATIONS, but in fact the jews put politics ahead of profits, and that explains the cast of literally everything they put out. ... ministers and women supposed to influence, rather than alter directly. literature fits this better than directer approaches like speaking. pros masquerading as amateurs. this allowed them to get into otherwise masculine markets. period under discussion is mostly 1820-1875. theology transforms into literature, over the generation before 1810 and the one after. reflected in beechers: writing tracks before 1810 vs novels and stories after. pushing the same morals but different forms. women almost needed clerical sanction before 1810 but had the market as soon as it developed, and the market was highly catered tto feminine tastes. feminine literary sentimentalism reached high point before civil war; after that it declined, today has low status (romance novels, greeting cards, low-end religious bilge). ... ministers retrogressive, increasingly regarded. come to be associated with bad health. clergy associated with weaker, more feminine types of males, those of bad health who stay indoors. minister as cultural custodian. not moving while the rest of the nation was, despite the voluntary system that followed disestablishment (ie, the preacher is employed at the pleasure of the flock, rather than being paid by the state regardless). ministers approximated the feminine ideal: curators, tastemakers. adj used to describe feminized ministers: sweet, meek, gentle, sensitive, poetic, delicate. so the unitarians and elite congregationalists are conservative/domestic like women and courted or presented a feminine image. (vs the evangelicals, the lower-end christians, socially). woman as weak and passive, this is her feminine genius. "feminine health was reputedly as poor as clerical health." women may have been sicker in 1700s but they didnt talk about it. the 1800s women and clergymen DID talk lots about being weak and sick. "cultural uses of sicknes" - concern that we aren't needed, draw attention to ourselves and our reduced place in public status. women gaind power, clergy lost power. both used illness to shield/advance their positions. both episcopalianism and unitarianism were "distinctly upper class." unitarianism more for self-examination and preaching, episcopalianism more catholic, more about display than self-examination. women took over fiction writing between 1820 and 1880; henry james saw them as dominate at the end of that period. Louisa May Alcott's (Little Women) rebellious Jo was a tomboy and a writer. female writers were poaching on male preserves, or seen to be. Catharine Beecher: Domestic Economy. ..."the sales of all the works by Hawthorne, Melville, Thoreau, and Whitman in the 1850s did not equal the sales of one of the more popular domestic novels." ministers could write tracts, systems of divinity, sermons, essays, sketches, even poetry and fiction. women could write tracts, sketches, poetry and fiction. ... precursors to feminization of ministerial culture: change from sex-segregated pews to family pews; minister taking over from state the marrying and burying of parishoners. these happened in 1600s. by 1800s it's mainly women listening to preachers, and the preachers need material/female support. harriet martineau said no one listened to american ministers but "women and superstitious men." she produced a 'celebrated study of New World society.' women were universally seen as dominating protestnat congregations by the mid-1800s. men drawn to the clergy were more mama's boys, they resembled their mothers physically and mentally. this was remarked on by others. English writer Trollope said she never saw a country where religion had so strong a hold upon hte women or so slight a hold upon the men. clergy alone, she said, gave women attention, in america. interest in history leads to 'library movement,' as does rise of mass publication. the liberal minister talked, wrote - "largely for women." nathaniel willis said, mid 1800s, women run everything outside politics and business. they run the press and determine the styles. willis was a "fashionable writer." ... mary lyon, revivals. mt holyoke. fusion of religious and pedagogical (teaching) roles. "empty gentility" of middle-class feminine life. ... liberal literature shows young girls in conflict with puritan fathers. harsh puritanism, calvinism, contrasted with more humane liberalism of 19th century. we see the seeds of our culture today. the jews took this idea and ran with it. thus anything honest and straight becomes "hate." examples of the girl vs the church fathers: joseph buckminster's Naomi (1848), in which the title girl is a persecuted Quaker who finds the church fathers too judgmental and bests them in argument; and Adeline D.T. Whitney's The Gayworthys (1865), in which a girl waters down the concept of 'election' to include everybody, thereby winning an old sailor to the church. good example of no-standards democratic pandering. Elizabeth Oakes Smith's Bertha and Lily (1854), girl competing with minister for spiritual leadership of community. the girl preaches, the minister marries her, recognizing she is superior, becomes a "lovely, inspired childman" while she is a fresh jesus. telling quote from sarah hale: "to bring about the true christian civilization, the men must become more like women, and the women must become more like angels." the second it had a chance, due to publishing technology, the public went with fiction over theology. which is another way of saying, it preferred the unserious to the serious. Edwars A. Park. "The Theology of the Intellect and the Theology of the Feelings" (1850). mother worship. woman as jesus. woman as god. woman as superior. family as woman's church. ministers were very against women becoming ministers, and long resisted their even doing missionary work. the rise of sunday school. begun in england for the lower classes in 1700s. spreads in america in early 1800s. empowers women as teachers of SS classes, and ministers see this as threat - they'll be in pulpits next! church v literature - both battle for mindshare and marketshare. figure: sword of spirit so covered by flowers and ribbons you cant make out what it is. "The rise of the novel was roughly coincidental with the commercialization of hte press..." novel a NEWER form, poetry an OLDER form. novels were long SUSPECT among clergy and the universities they founded. "a novel suggests without argument or labor" - it INFLUENCES. as WOMEN are supposed to do. novels likened to alcohol or drugs. similar to modern critics of tv-watchers. makes people passive. "it is because of novel-reading that so few people _think_." just as the novel eclipsed all other literary forms, with the advent of mass publication. so too did christianity become eclipsed by its feminine aspect or nature. William Ware's Zenobia (1836). heroic pagan society, bisexual, versus modern effeminized christian society. "rather cowardly new world of consumer culture." minister as middle-man, midwifing the rise of the age of the woman (middle class, feminine consumer).

vocabulary: preponderance, concomitantly, dyspepsia, casuist, manque

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...as#post1913699
 
Old January 23rd, 2016 #10
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Ch. 4: The Loss of Theology: From Dogma to Fiction

[4a - on atonement, first SEGMENT of ch4, to p.139-155]

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch4a.mp3 (54m)

- 'forces of sentimentalism' changed doctrines. New England Calvinism. Jonathan Edwards. His boy Joseph Bellamy, "follower and popularizer." He wrote True Religion Delineated" (1750). doctrine of atonement was key to this cold old hard calvinism. god as drama queen. men as bit players. god created the world to reflect his manifold awesomeness. man is infinitely depraved, and deserves nothing but hellfire. yet god can save him, via jesus, if he decides. he has no reason to, he just can. christ changes NOTHING (spoken Wonka good-day-sir fashion). douglas says this doctrine of atonement is a "horrifying" one that yet once possessed enormous imaginative and intellectual appeal. that god hates his charges, not loves them, and has no desire to save them, though he can. this picture of god gave people energy, she says. God was truly AWESOME - august and terrifying. People kind of get off on this. They don't "relate" to this god, they are worms before it. And they kind of like and use that. This is human psychology. "Use your illusions" as GnR said. It's kind of like the female desire to be dominated in bed writ large, or societal. "I would have totally groveled" as Akroyd's wench "Bunny" says in Trading Places. These old puritans, for all their sexlessness, WANT to feel the worm. That's my interpretation anyway. I come from these people, in good section. We would always ask my mom what we were going to eat, and she would often say, "We're going to fast and pray." She was always kidding. But I always suspected that was an echo, of our Puritan forebears, and she would have been at home in that earlier time of general spareness. Calvinism, right or wrong, "squarely faced" the facts of evil, horror, injustice in daily life. this IS admirable. people know what they need, and that it's not the same as what they want. when they can FACE something they KNOW they won't necessarily LIKE - this is when you have strong people and strong society. when they CANT face facts, they can ONLY hear what they WANT to hear, what is flattering, that is when you have a WEAK society. this is why RACIALISM is STRONG and liberalism is degenerate and weak. Edwards and Bellamy weren't out there trying to be hip young preachers, and play rock music and APPEAL to these puritanicals, they were saying "I got something you NEED to hear, which is TRUE whether you LIKE IT OR NOT. It has nothing to do with me, and you'd goddamned be well advised to LISTEN because your ETERNAL SOUL is at stake." That's what seriousness looks like, even if the arguments made a technically wrong. Edwards and Bellamy et al. may have been wrong, but they are NOT clowns. They didnt say religion is all about love and mercy, they were closer to the opposite. Their hard approach served people better than today's soft approach, it is manifest. They were offering nutrition, where people prefer today junk food, for body, mind and soul. VNN is descended in part from Congregationalist preachers, and we have always tried to exhibit some of this necessary sternness and rigor. FACE what you are doing, people. And what you are DOING is what you ARE. "That's not me!" No...THAT IS YOU. ... the classic calvinist paternal, factual view shifted to a MAternal "affective" (feelings based) one by first half of 1800s. shift from FACTS to FEELINGS. key thing here: douglas asserts that while patriarchal view was disetablished, no true matriarchal view replaced it. just weakness. she says strength is "as essential" to the feminine as to the masculine, but this feminine approach was never fully worked out. can it be worked out, actually? is the question that arises and should be put to her, here. i dont think it can. heretical views of Atonement become the new orthodoxy, over course of 1800s. the liberal wing comes to dominate. Hosea Ballou, Treatise on the Atonement. god attends to men, and their spiritual growth is his preoccupation. a man-centered god! the opposite of what bellamy preached. so do things religious permutate over time. what doesn't exist is susceptible to endless and equally likely or reasonable interpretations . Ballou sees god-man as father-son relation, Bellamy did not see this. God is not the loving father, that is a newer idea. increasing liberalization and anthropomorphicizing of god thru Worcester, then Bushnell (The Vicarious Sacrifice). Sarah Hale reinterpreted the fall, said god created woman last and best - not for man's sensual pleasure but moral elevation and refined human affections.

vocabulary: locus classicus

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p...as#post1914183

Last edited by Robbie Key; January 25th, 2016 at 01:54 PM.
 
Old January 24th, 2016 #11
Sean Gruber
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Here's a plug for Sinclair Lewis's novel Elmer Gantry, as an aid for those studying the Douglas. Entertaining fictional portrait of a modern preacher, circa 1900-1925. Lewis did much field research in prep for the novel. Gantry is the near-ultimate decadent christer.
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Old January 25th, 2016 #12
Alex Linder
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New thread started for "Imperium." Will be working on that and finishing up FAC at the same time.
 
Old January 25th, 2016 #13
Alex Linder
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Ch. 5: The Escape From History

(5b) The Antiquarians: History as Sentimentalism

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch5b.mp3 (34m)

Notes: The Antiquarians: History as Sentimentalism: such respect as American writers got abroad came thru our historians (not our novelists), prior to 1850. history began to decline in 1840s; up till then it was major interest in books and magazines. did not revive until 1870s, in different form. instead of national synthesizing historians newly worried about actual facts, history became dominated by clergy and women, writing about local stuff, calling themselves compilers, distinctly antiquarian, and concerned with rescuing X from "oblivion." modern (1850) preachers felt they were being ignored or given short shrift, but they also pretty much knew they were mucher lighter weight than the jonathan edwards and Puritan fathers they sprang from. women felt they and their tasks were ignored - everything about puritan fathers, never the mothers. Elizabeth Ellet: The Women of the American Revolution (three vol., 1848 to 1850). "the feminine fifties" - the rise of the domestic novel (1850s) and the ending of major historical fiction like Sedgwick's. harried beecher stowe was the only major writer who was mainly an historical fictionist. domestic life became the main concern, and this carried over into 20th century magazines - and domestic stuff is anti-historical. ... pacifism was a thing between 1815-1850. david low dodge. american peace society. many clergy and women.
 
Old January 26th, 2016 #14
Alex Linder
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Ch. 5: The Escape From History

(5c) Clerical and Feminine Biography: From History to Biology

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/M...s-FAC-Ch5c.mp3 (41m)

5c Notes: Clerical and Feminine Biography: From History to Biology. the intellectual preachers wrote their own bios of each other. after 1840, it tended to be women writing bios of preachers, the more liberal preachers. female writers emphasized the domestic man, his familial feelings, rather than his professional duties or achievements. emphasis on suffering, underappreciation by others leading to moral lessons. women and liberal clergy would submit, endure, and triumph. Hosea Ballou, most significant early Universalist, had great effect on his audience. Fought hard as a liberal vs the harder types, was not a sentimentalist personally. hegelian history made by active men vs feminine history, which concerns emotional reactions to live and relationships in unchanging protected worlds.
 
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