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February 10th, 2014 | #41 | |
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Posts: 9,741
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VNNForum isn't an organization. VNNForum isn't an organization. VNNForum isn't an organization. VNNForum isn't an organization.
You can't apply standards for a real life organization to an Internet forum as hard as you try. ------------------ We may be the pussiest of the pussies but coming in 2nd are pussies who think writing on the internet is comparable to toppling the government. That's not meant as an insult either. You're the one who calls it a "faggy medium" for cowards. What are the benefits of forcing new members to to post under their real names? For them to their control behavior? That's what moderation tools are for. We don't really even have that issue currently anyway. So why is this suddenly an issue? There's not really any benefit to writing on WN sites under your real name (and not even a pen name) unless you're running a website yourself, or are publishing stuff outside of the forum and are planning on getting mainstream recognition. On the Internet, people don't care as much about who writes something. Most people don't pay much attention to the author or the username it's under. That's generally secondary to the content. I'd say being a journalist on a mainstream site is more important in most people's eyes than just whether they publish under a real name. Since we're on the Internet and VNN isn't a real world organization, maybe we should go by Internet standards? Quote:
What is this NSA-level shit about "providing proof" ? Are you going to ask for photo ID? You're lying when you pretend "nothing would happen" you have an entire subforum dedicated to it, among hundreds of lesser known people being prosecuted for their comments on facebook and twitter. You know better. I could find dozens of threads documenting it if I do a search. While we're on the subject: the point you miss in the original post is that a lot of the 'real names' on twitter and facebook aren't actual real names at all, and there's no way to prove they are until usually when the person is prosecuted for their offending views. Your point about anonymous people being extra careful about lying about non-anonymous people is legitimate, but in your latest defense of Rounder it seems to me that you've decided that ANY criticism is too much for people posting under their real names. Is that the spirit of VNN now? Last edited by varg; February 10th, 2014 at 08:13 PM. Reason: .. |
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February 10th, 2014 | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 12,684
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c'mon Varg, you know GD well Alex doesn't defend anybody unless he genuinely agrees with that somebody.
If there's one reason I've been on here 10 freakin years (this month, btw), it's because I can believe everything thing that comes out of his mouth is truly felt. And that he does not compromise his beliefs or positions for any reason, including and especially, to please donors or particular individuals, or anybody else. Before Alex would compromise in order to hold donors or members to this forum, he'd shut it down and quit. We should all be thankful he's that way. He's almost alone among WN leaders in his uncompromising dedication to truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You're being unnecessarily stubborn on this issue. Everybody, and especially Alex, is well aware and thankful of your enormous contributions to this forum, and for many years. But you really oughta stay out of it. You certainly can't win it. Besides, the policy, if emplemented, will be grandfathered. It won't effect you at all.
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“To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” —–Voltaire Last edited by Rounder; February 10th, 2014 at 08:26 PM. |
February 10th, 2014 | #43 | |||
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A) his website will look more legitimate if people are using their real names instead of pen names. though who would even be interested in proving it was a real name instead of a fake real-sounding name other than enemies? B) that people will "control themselves more" when that isn't even an issue currently, unless he means we can't criticize you.. C) he thinks it will do something for real world white nationalism.. when that hasn't been proven or explained. VNN isn't even a real world group currently so how does that transfer over? If we were talking about not being anonymous in a real world group I'd agree completely, well actually not really, even real world groups have 'above ground' people who donate or do other helpful things and aren't put in the foreground. Quote:
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How do you prove someone is using their real name? Do we start collecting scanned photo IDs? What if they're faked? Do we force this on Europeans and Canadians knowing they might be jailed? Why is this even a fucking issue, other than that people decided that an internet forum is suddenly a real world organization (or that it's necessary to treat it like one) Last edited by varg; February 10th, 2014 at 09:27 PM. Reason: .. |
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February 10th, 2014 | #44 |
Ole' Cyber Crusher
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,386
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VNNF sure has a knack for coming up with innovative ways to put people off signing up.
The only circumstance that anyone should be looked into is whether or not they're a sockpuppet of some undesirable banned years ago. Other than that, people on VNNF should be given the privilege, no, right to post anonymously. Obviously, if the content generated by a person holds up to scrutiny, it wouldn't matter who that person is IRL. If he's a loser, troll or anti, it would be self-evident, and sorted with properly.
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February 10th, 2014 | #45 | ||
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This stuff is not black and white, as you seem to imply. It's a matter of degrees. That's why I posted this - the leftist respects that we "own" our racism. These people really do believe, because it's all they've ever heard, that we are skulking cowards under fake names. Yeah, it won't topple the government overnight to use our real names, but it will gain our cause a degree or two more respect. That's something. Quote:
You say moderating is where the control comes in, you don't get it. I don't want to spend even one minute moderating, if I can avoid it. I have better things to do, like writing. What I want is SELF-CONTROL. I'm pretty sure using real names would tend to enhance that, which is the real VNN-related reason it's a burr in mind for years now. I also have no doubt at all it would be better for the cause. It's also the thing the true pioneer would do. I'll think it though again at year's midpoint, July 1, and decide whether we should go that route for 2015 forward. Who has to be controlled externally? Children. Adult children. Not the type we want here. We want people with self-control. Who follow the rules. Which gives them all the leeway they need to say any honest thing they want. I truly can't believe that you can't grasp that how someone using his real name is more credible than someone pretending to be SkullDagger 98 or whatever - whether he's a writer/activist or common poster. That's the whole reason I posted this (as opposed to some particular problem cropping up), to show it DOES have a good effect. The leftists even admit it. Not because we're having any particular problem at this time, as I said, we're not. It's just a nagging question about how to make the forum better, and how to advance the cause. Clearly, people can get hurt, but it's not black and white. And I think people not using their real names tend to exaggerate the dangers. But that's their decision. I don't go around criticizing them, I just minimal rules that if followed will make a successful forum, so far as personal interactions. VNN is not an organization, but so what? We should act like we all are part of an organization anyway, because one will be needed. Training or preparing for that, by adopting very, very modest discipline, can only help. This has nothing to do with VNN, either. Any organization will require the same things: self-control, discipline, and yes, bravery. Just look at the Greeks. Look at the people they're fighting. None of them are anonymous. Using our real names won't topple the government, but it will enhance credibility of our cause. I regard that as self-evident, and at least one leftist confirmed it, hence the post. That's not an attack on anyone, nor is it telling anyone what he should do. Even apart from the rest of these consideration, anonymity just creates endless CONFUSION and unnecessary problems. Do you know how often people talk to me and assume I know or remember something about them, and I don't. Because they're using multiple names online and in emails and they're not the same... That's just one example. It's just childish cloak-and-dagger bs. There are many other ways anonymity breeds trouble, and they have nothing to do with cowardice or bravery. It may be necessary in cases, but it is certainly an evil. |
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February 11th, 2014 | #46 | ||||||
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But something I don't get is, one side of you wants a free speech forum for open discussion: bring on the Valdezes, the Ze'eves, etc. You brag about how VNN allows more open discussion and less censorship than any other forum. Then another side of you wants people to act how you expect them to, how you envision what their ideal behavior should be or they'll be banned. You're talking about banning any new signup who doesn't use their real names yet at the same time you talk about how open VNN is. I seriously think starting a religion would be better suited to influence the type of change you want. Getting pissed at people for not meeting your expectations of how they should act on the Internet doesn't work and is a waste of your time. Quote:
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They're also living in an collapsed economy which allows nationalist sentiment to gain a foothold, and allows nationalists to provide when the government/zog fails. I don't think it's just a coincidence that a broken economy worked in Hitler's favor, and in GD's favor. We don't have that. People in America aren't starving. What can American WN even offer them at this point? They already move away from blacks and marry other whites. Can we put food on their tables or offer them jobs? But compare what GD does: they helped out their own, they offered food, clothing, shelter, and medical help to their people who were left out in the cold by their government. In American WN it seems to be that when you become a public WN you're basically on your own. Like you said only a small amount of people, and certain type of person is going to make that sacrifice knowing the odds that are stacked against them. The way I see it is no one wants to be a real world leader in America, or start an organization because there's dozens of examples of what happens every single time. The leaders always end up jailed or dead, the organizations are always left bankrupt or are regulated to selling books or holding useless rallies on some street corner. I think you realize that a lot of the stuff people like Rounder fantasize about isn't going to happen until there's an economic collapse too. The greater issue is that no one is willing to start a real world organization that is actively doing anything, not whether people post online under their real names. What does being anonymous on here even mean? I've met other WNs in the real world, have been to a rally, have done real world stuff, people whom I trust know who I am, even you know a bit about me. What difference would it make if I wrote on here as Varg or under my real name? Other than that antis (and even other WNs with ego problems) would have an easier time fucking with my life, and my family's lives. I'd have no one helping me, even people whom I'm on the same side with, and ultimately absolutely nothing would change in terms of White Nationalism being taken more seriously or having any power. Not everyone is suited for being a political leader, and until there is one (which is what everyone else on here is waiting for, including you and rounder) I don't see the point in bringing less opportunity and more problems into your life with little to no benefit. Last edited by varg; February 11th, 2014 at 02:24 PM. Reason: ... |
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February 11th, 2014 | #47 |
Holorep survivor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The wild frontier
Posts: 4,849
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Alex, posts on a forum are for debate, critique, discussion, and also fun, as well as having areas that draw in traffic, be it music, movies, this just in, the various sub-forums etc.
The VNN forum is a forum, where mostly people from other forums arrive, after a lifetime of brainwashing, look around, make mistakes, and either fit in or leave. It's an entry point, rough and raw, whilst it needs serious material for as members mature and learn and develop, that takes years, so also needs varying kinds of material, at various levels, to maintain interest, and develop a community spirit, in a sense. It can't be expected that new people will just understand everything, and fall into line. As people grow, so they can then be brought deeper into core activities. As the saying goes, don't fix what isn't broke. What you are looking for can only be achieved by a thinktank/policy institute, producing position and policy papers, manuals etc. In corporate terms, the forum would be the factory floor, where things get hammered out, the main website would be head office, and would need to look like it. It does not need articles, the forum has that covered. It needs more serious material. From that, organisations, parties etc grow. If you act seriously, and begin producing serious work, serious people will take you seriously. WN in the US needs strategic direction, that cannot be achieved without such a centre. Once drafted, those policies etc can be floated on the forum in an appropriate sub-forum, private in need, and then hammered out in the rough and tumble of the world. A good start for forum type work would be instead of TAA's, focus upon hardhitting but short powerful videos and soundclips, playlists of various topics, start consolidating the vast quantities of info, especially videos, into a series of lessons almost like a course, so a new person can in a day grasp most of the basics. Focus on redesigning the main VNN website and lay out a draft way forward, and then you will find that a serious website, will attract serious people. This is how serious websites look and feel. They took years to reach this level. The sooner VNN starts, the better. http://csis.org http://www.stratfor.com http://www.trilateral.org
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Secede. Control taxbases/municipalities. Use boycotts, divestment, sanctions, strikes. http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/...d-Jan-2015.pdf https://canvasopedia.org/wp-content/...Points-web.pdf Last edited by Hugh; February 11th, 2014 at 02:31 PM. |
February 11th, 2014 | #48 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 39
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My thoughts on the subject of anonymity reposted from the Dutton thread.
On the subject of revealing our true identities or "coming out" publicly, I see both sides. More people proudly stating publicly that they are WN will embolden others to do the same; this is important for obvious reasons. So often on WN forums I read people stating that what we really need is an established party like Golden Dawn in Greece and I agree. How exactly these people think this is going to occur without many people willing to state their beliefs publicly, I have no idea. It seems obvious enough that most are waiting around for others to take the lead. But I am among those who choose to remain anonymous for reasons already stated. I am currently employed by a company that would immediately fire me if I were to be connected to anything related to WNism. I could find somewhere to work, I'm sure. But there's no chance that I could match my current income. I make double what most people I know make in a job that only requires a high school diploma. I struggle with the idea of sacrificing so much of my current income because I have a wife and two young children who depend on me. At the same time, I feel that remaining idle is putting their futures at risk. |
February 11th, 2014 | #49 | |
Banned
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Posts: 1,491
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If VNN were an org, the most busiest forums would be the "Working"/"Business" and a Legal forum. Because it's where WN need the most help in going to self sufficent independence. |
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February 11th, 2014 | #50 | |||||||
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We need political leadership. We have the ideas. Yes, we always need more writers and speakers, but we need more actual politicians than anything. Leaders. We have enough papers and Ph.D.s. Quote:
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I know the world you're talking about, but there's no way VNN could develop into something like that, it's just not that type of thing. I envision development more along the lines of dual-focus on the 1) white and 2) man. Personal and political. 1) living white (the man) 2) whites coming together to create a context (the white) All this is on the soft side - the positive or educational side of our great mission - to achieve white sovereignty. The hard side requires a party and field leadership. Ideally through a party organization that features activism in pursuit of a political strategy aimed, as always, at establishing white sovereignty. That's how I break it down, Hugh. Now, if I can't or won't lead (due to whatever reason) on the hard side, then I must do all my work on the soft side, as I have been the last few years. And perfect the educational mission. As I see it, on the soft side, the ultimate thing we could do, as a movement, is create an Aryan school: a curriculum for those who want to enculturate young whites in their own racial history. A specifically NON-christian, racial curriculum. That's the ultimate. Someone could be working on that right now, even at the simplest level, which would simply be organizing existing texts and videos (rather than creating new material) into an education series that would operatre more or less as you're saying: someone entirely new to this could come in and understand, through progressive lessons, what a white man is, who his enemy the jew is, why things are the way they are today, how best to live himself, and to join others in creating a new social order in which whites live the way they want to. The material for this lies around us, but there are very few actually working on longer-range things, for whatever reason. Most of what we see out there is simply today's menu of nigger attacks or jew outrages. Which is fine and necessary, because it keeps us alert to happenings and let's us make our evergreen points anew each day, but ultimately it's passive-reactive and threatens to turn into mere entertainment. There's no getting around it. We need an actual vehicle to make sure that our advances are permanent and each incremental effort grows into something larger and valuable to our race over time. |
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February 11th, 2014 | #51 | |
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All you need for financial independence is to save your money. And that is what 80% of people won't do, because they are undisciplined and prefer the pleasures of the moment to long-term goals. WN really does have to be like a religious mission on the personal level, otherwise it's just entertainment. You "can't" say something. You can. Legally. So you don't want to say something because it will hurt your career prospects. Put it like that. Well, ok. That's your decision. But you still should be angry that's the state of things. That anger should drive you to emancipate yourself from the system in the way left open: by getting enough money you can own your residence outright and enough in the bank to live off, even if you don't have a job. So get cracking on that. Seriously: if you just want to bitch about black crime and jew depradations, join the Republican party. If you want more, then it pretty much comes down to what I said, on the personal level - reform your life so that you can play a role in changing things. I'm not telling you something I haven't done myself. For me, it was radical cost reduction that would allow me to spend time writing about this stuff, and trying to agitate whites into not accepting life on jews' conditions, but pushing for independence. Don't whine about obstacles that anyone can see and no one denies, figure out how you can overcome them. It can be done. |
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February 12th, 2014 | #52 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 204
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We can have a 'real posters only' parallel forum,where only 'verified(or whatever you want to call it)' users can post.
If said parallel forum would be a success,we could make VNN 'real persons only'. I'm firmly on Linder's side. Fact is,using real names would lend a lot of legitimacy to our views. Ideally that shouldn't be the case,but that's how a 'liberated' mind works.... ...anonymous handle=coward,real name=Nazi. The latter commands respect,atleast.
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I'm an Idol worshipper-the jew's worst nightmare. |
February 12th, 2014 | #53 | |
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WNists need to build into other WNists businesses first before establishing commerce with neutral or anti-racialists companies and corporations. Need to have each other's backs before we make a big break, either up, or down. It'd be a very wise idea to have a Legal forum because every citizen has to square with the government knowing about all the legal requirements required thereof to start up a business. Business Law is so complex there are thousands of firms dedicated entirely to just that litigation. And it's gotten worse to start one these days since the grandparents' heydays of the 1950s with another 1000+ new stupid laws the people of America care not challenge. |
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February 12th, 2014 | #54 |
Member
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So is stupidity
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WHEN INJUSTICE BECOMES LAW, RESISTANCE BECOMES DUTY |
February 12th, 2014 | #55 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 476
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I do not wish to use my real name because I do not want my wife getting crap at work.
I am self employed and everyone that knows me knows what I think so if it was just me I would proudly give my name. As far as some anti, jew or nigger coming to my house looking for trouble then I would welcome them to come on down and bring friends and I'll call some family and friends. |
February 19th, 2014 | #56 |
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Per my ideas, it occurred to me: why am I pseudonymous on Gawker, which I comment on all the time. The answer, I think, is that when I started, their system (which changes every few months) wasn't hooked into the social media I'm on. Now it is. So I started using my real name in the last 24 hours. Guess what? I'm in the white (they have comment apartheid, the top/white comments get the most reading, the gray ones are harder to read and segregated, funnily and ironically enough). I have more responses (23) in ONE DAY of using my real name than in probably two years of commenting anonymously as "CatFiveHimmicane."
Just saying... That's what I'm looking for if I'm not writing stuff for VNN. Most sites are now part of some comment system that lets you register 10x more easily than 10 years ago, you just use your facebook or twitter. So I comment everywhere I can, always under my real name with my stupid fishing-hat picture. I'm not saying my way is right for everybody, I'm just pointing out that what I said is true: you have more credibility where there's a price to be paid for taking a certain position if you take that position under your real name. There is no safe way for WN to win. Someone's going to have to get out there and say this stuff. Right? No one disagrees with that. So we need more people to do that. Which is not the same as saying any one person should or must do it, it's simply to point out what I believe is a simple, objective fact. What we also know is that the more people there are publicly saying what we all know to be true, the harder it is for the enemy to pick them off one by one. In years of commenting, I probably had 6 genuine responses to stuff I'd written. The way it works is, people who are already approved (white) commenters can give stuff in the gray a star, and lift into the more visible section. So I made two comments last night. The first got approved, then it got multiple stars (agreements) with an anti-feminist position. The second, I don't know, it was openly anti-black, if reporting reality = anti-black. That's pretty remarkable, I'd say, and there's nothing to attribute it to other than their having respect for someone using his real name. Like I said upthread, I know from reading illiberal sites for years, many of them are not joking when they say or imply that no one actually really believes racist views. Just think about someone who never deals with blacks much, goes to school through college and is happy with what he hears - this person is the goldfish who can't see the bowl. That's where real, public 'racists' come in. That's part of our outreach program, as I think of it. Speaking only to our own in whispers behind closed doors is what conservatives do. WN proclaim their beliefs loudly and publicly and to their enemy. Two not-so-different schools of belief, but two very different political behaviors. Again, I don't encourage anything, I'm looking at the entire situation and seeing what our movement objectively needs. For you personally, if you are serious about WN, then you should orient your life to aid the cause - but only you will know how best this can be accomplished because it depends on your personal circumstance, and what you have planned for the future. Take yourself and what you're doing and what our cause needs seriously, and you will figure out the right way to go. |
February 19th, 2014 | #57 |
Administrator
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Also argued with "bigjulie" on the frontpage (jew horowitz) queer Bawer story about Switzerland. I play these straight, generally. The conservatives always start with the epithets and ad hominems if you take a racial anti-jew line, which shows them to be just like liberals. And boy do you see the difference in seriousness underlined when the guy making the straight points is using his name while the "bigjulie" is playing the fool, saying things like "Edmund Burke was a jew."
The right is incredibly soft. The only hard thing in it are the neocons running it. If we use our real names, we look serious by comparison. We're not kidding around the - conservatives are. They can't help but be impressed by us because they are natural cowards and conformists, and they will, like all women, follow the strongest lead instinctively. |
May 6th, 2014 | #58 |
Administrator
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Antiwhites try to get alt-rightist Andy Nowicki fired, by calling up his coworkers. I believe he teaches at a high school or something. Video thru link (8m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=BFoyRMAkVOo http://alternative-right.blogspot.co...fa-update.html [good example of how antis/jews operate. as he says PC is worse than 'mccarthyism'. 'awful, oppressive attempts to control and regulate discourse and rule certain ideas and notion as out of bounds' and to cast whoever asks those questions or proposes those ideas into the outer darkness. we see that happening around us and i think i underestimated just how insidious it all is. let's face it, i am a small fry, not that important. yet even someone like me is experiencing something like this." well you keep that in mind angie next time you're tempted into that "itz the joooz" bs, which i believe (perhaps wrongly) you dip into from time to time. he vibes totallyl scared, nervous catholic, what with all the coughing. he's just hoping this all will go away. one mistake i made was not documenting in timeline fashion every abuse and underhand, behind-the-scenes attack VNN has suffered. of course, it cuts both ways to publicize such. but on the good side, it was cut into some of the smugness of these conservative idiots who think that we're making it up when we blame the jews for whites' 'failure' to organize.] Last edited by Alex Linder; May 6th, 2014 at 03:10 PM. |
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