Vanguard News Network
VNN Media
VNN Digital Library
VNN Reader Mail
VNN Broadcasts

Old February 27th, 2013 #21
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

The Kochs aren't jews. Bye Vened. We will not be held to WN standards here at VNNF, they're too low.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #22
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

I've said before many times that jewwatch is not a credible source. Makow is a known jew and known jew apologist-exculpater, which means liar. So don't be surprised when you cite either of these and get banned for lying. They are not credible sources for determining who is a jew. If you aren't capable of determining a source's credibility, even with honest intentions, then you are beneath the intellectual caliber we want here.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #23
Hunter Morrow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,802
Hunter Morrow
Default

If America didn't get a barrel from Saudi Arabia, we'd be fine. They're the only real Middle East country we get oil from and it doesn't even account for 1/8th of our imports. Right now, the Dakotas and Texas both have found more oil in them and it is expected that we will increase oil production in the country by about a 1:1 ratio of what we import from Saudi Arabia.

Russia produces 9.5 barrels of oil a day an only exports 5 of them. America could have easily gotten oil from Russia instead of "the Middle East."

Iran produces 4 million barrels a day. Not only has America not used a drop of it, it is waging economic and electronic warfare against Iran.

U.S. oil policy sucks the big one.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #24
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
Jewwatch is the poster child for unreliability.

Makow is runner-up.

Sheldon Adelson has his own agenda. By your illogic, Whites become kikes by association.

Note that I didn't claim the Kochs were not jewish. I observed you made an unfounded claim, which you continue to do. My observation (further) unhinged you.

Just because people are involved in politics, are wealthy and have a vaguely German name doesn't make them jews.
I can't stand this religious fear of the term 'unregulated.' Oh my god, people are doing transactions without a corrupt, incompetent government official taking his cut. The horror!

The problem is never speculation and always the government bailing out losers.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #25
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
I can't stand this religious fear of the term 'unregulated.' Oh my god, people are doing transactions without a corrupt, incompetent government official taking his cut. The horror!

The problem is never speculation and always the government bailing out losers.
Enron was the prime example before 2008. The government was controlling electricity distribution and predictably fucking it up. So they semi-deregulated, which is to say, they let a bunch of crooks from Houston in to generate kickbacks. Non-hilarity ensued in the form of rolling blackouts.

The usual suspects then claim the latter was an example of the 'failure of private enterprise,' when it wasn't private at all.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #26
Thomas777
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 203
Thomas777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
The problem is never speculation and always the government bailing out losers.
Regulation is inevitable when banking and credit on demand become the driving engine of an economic system because the people revolt against the economic system, against their own interest - this was Schumpeter's most important insight, and its why he was the most persuasive foil to both Keynes and Marx. Schumpeter was an ardent capitalist who apprehended early that capitalism wouldn't survive. Von Miseans sometimes misinterpret this; Schumpeter compared himself to a doctor who has the somber duty of informing a patient he will die of cancer - the doctor doesn't relish the prospect of his dead patient, in fact he abhors it. Nonetheless, he's obligated to diagnose properly and without emotion.

At base, people won't tolerate the spontaneous volatility of capitalism - thus every capitalist state votes itself into socialism, at the behest in part of Bourgeois intellectuals whose livelihood is only facilitated by capitalism itself. ''Class warfare'' is bullshit, for reasons outside the scope of this thread - its conceptual assumptions I mean, but it is in fact true that the body politic in capitalist states works to destroy the economic order on instinctive grounds.

Pointing out that regulation is ''bad'' is on the order of Plato or Solon pointing out that men who aspire to politics are ''bad''. Its correct but it doesn't tell us anything about politics. There's an irrational preference intrinsic to man's psychology that opposes advanced capitalism - thus the greeting that Spaniards afforded one another in the early 20th century, ''let no change arrive/occur'' or something on that order.

One of the ironies of the 21st century will be that states like Russia and China will preserve capitalism longer than America and Europe, simply because they'll enforce an authoritarian punitive regime against people who agitate for its destruction as enemies of the state and opponents of the national interest.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #27
John from Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,158
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vened View Post
Shell for instance is known for buying up cheap oil, storing it in tankers, and betting on future prices as they reserve the oil from the market.
Oil speculators buy and sell a commodity called West Texas Intermediate. This is oil that is produced in that region of Texas, and delivered for sale to the oil facility in Cushing, Oklahoma.

Even though West Texas Intermediate represents less than 1% of total production. All the other grades of oil, from Alaska to the Middle East, are priced according to this benchmark.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #28
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas777 View Post
Regulation is inevitable when banking and credit on demand become the driving engine of an economic system because the people revolt against the economic system, against their own interest - this was Schumpeter's most important insight, and its why he was the most persuasive foil to both Keynes and Marx. Schumpeter was an ardent capitalist who apprehended early that capitalism wouldn't survive. Von Miseans sometimes misinterpret this; Schumpeter compared himself to a doctor who has the somber duty of informing a patient he will die of cancer - the doctor doesn't relish the prospect of his dead patient, in fact he abhors it. Nonetheless, he's obligated to diagnose properly and without emotion.

At base, people won't tolerate the spontaneous volatility of capitalism - thus every capitalist state votes itself into socialism, at the behest in part of Bourgeois intellectuals whose livelihood is only facilitated by capitalism itself. ''Class warfare'' is bullshit, for reasons outside the scope of this thread - its conceptual assumptions I mean, but it is in fact true that the body politic in capitalist states works to destroy the economic order on instinctive grounds.
All this means is self-interested liars will arise with justifications for taking control of the money in order to debase it to makes themselves rich and get votes from weak-minded little people, who are the majority in any nation. Take political power away from this sort, and we can have what the US used to have.

Quote:
Pointing out that regulation is ''bad'' is on the order of Plato or Solon pointing out that men who aspire to politics are ''bad''. Its correct but it doesn't tell us anything about politics. There's an irrational preference intrinsic to man's psychology that opposes advanced capitalism - thus the greeting that Spaniards afforded one another in the early 20th century, ''let no change arrive/occur'' or something on that order.
The term capitalism doesn't mean anything, so you'd be better advised not to use it. The right term to use is market.

Look where we have gone in 100 years of advancing government control, or socialism, in the US. From free and without debt to unfree and bankrupt. I don't care who says otherwise, it is possible to avoid that transition.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #29
John from Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,158
Default

It's pointless to argue about the merits of regulation v. free markets when the Jew controls both.

Capitalism is free enterprise a la Jew. Where those with money can use the government to steal.

Socialism is Jewish agitators co-opting the inevitable backlash. And promising other peoples money in exchange for votes.

Whatever side you support, the middle class is going to get squeezed out of existence.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #30
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas777 View Post
Regulation is inevitable when banking and credit on demand become the driving engine of an economic system because the people revolt against the economic system, against their own interest - this was Schumpeter's most important insight, and its why he was the most persuasive foil to both Keynes and Marx. Schumpeter was an ardent capitalist who apprehended early that capitalism wouldn't survive. Von Miseans sometimes misinterpret this; Schumpeter compared himself to a doctor who has the somber duty of informing a patient he will die of cancer - the doctor doesn't relish the prospect of his dead patient, in fact he abhors it. Nonetheless, he's obligated to diagnose properly and without emotion.

At base, people won't tolerate the spontaneous volatility of capitalism - thus every capitalist state votes itself into socialism, at the behest in part of Bourgeois intellectuals whose livelihood is only facilitated by capitalism itself. ''Class warfare'' is bullshit, for reasons outside the scope of this thread - its conceptual assumptions I mean, but it is in fact true that the body politic in capitalist states works to destroy the economic order on instinctive grounds.

Pointing out that regulation is ''bad'' is on the order of Plato or Solon pointing out that men who aspire to politics are ''bad''. Its correct but it doesn't tell us anything about politics. There's an irrational preference intrinsic to man's psychology that opposes advanced capitalism - thus the greeting that Spaniards afforded one another in the early 20th century, ''let no change arrive/occur'' or something on that order.

One of the ironies of the 21st century will be that states like Russia and China will preserve capitalism longer than America and Europe, simply because they'll enforce an authoritarian punitive regime against people who agitate for its destruction as enemies of the state and opponents of the national interest.
Essentially you're arguing "end of history" for social democracy. I don't think so. The 20th century demonstrated that socialism doesn't work. New forms will be found in the 21st. As always, the smarter, more enterprising people will eventually break free from the grasping proles and the political criminals who herd them.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #31
Thomas777
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 203
Thomas777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Essentially you're arguing "end of history" for social democracy. I don't think so.
On the contrary - the death of capitalism will lead to great instability and the strategic landscape will become extraordinarily dangerous in its wake.

Quote:
The 20th century demonstrated that socialism doesn't work. New forms will be found in the 21st. As always, the smarter, more enterprising people will eventually break free from the grasping proles and the political criminals who herd them.
It doesn't matter that socialism doesn't work - when man acts politically he doesn't do so on grounds of reason. The reason Liberal capitalism fails is because it assumes ''the people'' are wise.

Hoppe deals with this point effectively - but his historical analysis is at odds with political and economic realities: Fixed political structures can't co-exist with capitalism, unless they are nakedly authoritarian.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #32
Alex Linder
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 45,342
Blog Entries: 34
Alex Linder
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas777 View Post
On the contrary - the death of capitalism will lead to great instability and the strategic landscape will become extraordinarily dangerous in its wake.
Capitalism doesn't mean anything as you use it.

Quote:
It doesn't matter that socialism doesn't work - when man acts politically he doesn't do so on grounds of reason. The reason Liberal capitalism fails is because it assumes ''the people'' are wise.

Hoppe deals with this point effectively - but his historical analysis is at odds with political and economic realities: Fixed political structures can't co-exist with capitalism, unless they are nakedly authoritarian.
You're confused as usual. And very much missing what's actually going on.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #33
Thomas777
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 203
Thomas777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Capitalism doesn't mean anything as you use it.
How so? Do you view the EU, America, and the UK as ''capitalist''? I don't. They're mixed systems that are in the process of implementing socialism. Yeah, there's lip service afforded to monetarist concepts but in terms of actual policy application, it doesn't mean anything.



Quote:
You're confused as usual. And very much missing what's actually going on.
Well, if you're the expert, explain what is actually underway. I don't see some Austrian School revolution taking hold in America and Europe by which central banking, fiat currency, and the welfare state are abolished.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #34
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John from Canada View Post
Oil speculators buy and sell a commodity called West Texas Intermediate. This is oil that is produced in that region of Texas, and delivered for sale to the oil facility in Cushing, Oklahoma.

Even though West Texas Intermediate represents less than 1% of total production. All the other grades of oil, from Alaska to the Middle East, are priced according to this benchmark.
So what? Every well produces differently, even those labeled WTI.

Standards are necessary. You admit the price is adjusted based on quality determinations. The same thing happens at grain elevators and cotton gins. That doesn't make it nefarious.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #35
John from Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,158
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
So what? Every well produces differently, even those labeled WTI.

Standards are necessary. You admit the price is adjusted based on quality determinations. The same thing happens at grain elevators and cotton gins. That doesn't make it nefarious.
You're missing the point. If the commodities exchange only trades one grade of oil, then the market is going to behave as if oil supplies are limited, regardless of how much oil is actually being produced.

What the NYMEX tells us is the price of oil is a fraud. When oil companies unanimously peg the price of oil and gasoline to a mechanism they know is fraudulent then they are guilty of price fixing.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #36
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John from Canada View Post
You're missing the point. If the commodities exchange only trades one grade of oil, then the market is going to behave as if oil supplies are limited, regardless of how much oil is actually being produced.
Traders don't encounter a world market for oil on one hand and then play pretend that there is only WTI for some fuzzy-but-nefarious purpose. You've spun a legal eagle argument that doesn't make any sense. If you believe physical is too cheap and futures to dear, why don't you buy physical and sell futures for delivery? You'd be rich beyond your wildest dreams.

(Note: Anyone else would, too. It's called arbitrage, and it's why your theory isn't found in reality.)

Quote:
What the NYMEX tells us is the price of oil is a fraud. When oil companies unanimously peg the price of oil and gasoline to a mechanism they know is fraudulent then they are guilty of price fixing.
Nonsense. You know, they do trade this stuff. They don't get a daily quote from a man behind a curtain.

Again, one could make this argument about wheat elevators in Alberta or cotton gins in Texas. The product of farmer A isn't the same as farmer B. So the contract is drawn on a well-defined and widely agreed upon standard. That standard may differ from both A & B. For grains it mostly has to do with moisture for a certain defined variety. For cotton it's the staple and trash. For oil it's sulphur content and viscosity (and some other metrics).

BTW, WTI is not the primary standard for world oil. North Sea Brent is, which is traded in London.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #37
John from Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,158
Default

There is no world market for oil Leonard.

Only two grades of oil are traded in the commodities market. Brent and West Texas Intermediate. But these two products account for less than 1% of the world's total oil production. They are "benchmarks". Meaning oil producers price have already decided that all of their other products will be priced accordingly.

Not only does the commodities exchange trade only a small amount of oil making it easier to inflate prices, oil companies actively participate in this speculation, knowing that it will raise the benchmark price for all their other products.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #38
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John from Canada View Post
There is no world market for oil Leonard.
Wow. All those thousands of oil tankers didn't get the message. Those greasy seagulls in Alaska and the Gulf died in vain!

Quote:
Only two grades of oil are traded in the commodities market. Brent and West Texas Intermediate. But these two products account for less than 1% of the world's total oil production. They are "benchmarks". Meaning oil producers price have already decided that all of their other products will be priced accordingly.
Actually, there are other varieties traded, though usually thinly.

The world doesn't work the way you think it does. In the physical market, Saudi oil is not priced the same as North Sea oil, Nigerian, Venezuelan, etc. You can use a contract on WTI to hedge Russian oil and you can use a IPE contract to hedge North Slope. That's the whole point of having a benchmark. It's not a bad thing.

I don't what else to say. You're attached to your ideas for some reason.

Quote:
Not only does the commodities exchange trade only a small amount of oil making it easier to inflate prices, oil companies actively participate in this speculation, knowing that it will raise the benchmark price for all their other products.
Ludicrous. Again, there is a sell on the other side of every buy, and vice versa. Also, the vast majority of contracts never reach delivery, and (I'm 99% sure of this. . .not researching tonight) many more barrels are traded as futures than ever could be delivered. You're factually incorrect.

IINM, front month NYMEX crude is the most liquid physical commodity future out there, trailing only Treasuries and Eurodollars in total. These are huge markets, in any event. They're too big for Shell and Exxon to control them like you think they do.

Read The Seven Sisters if you're genuinely interested in this topic.
 
Old February 27th, 2013 #39
Leonard Rouse
Celebrating My Diversity
 
Leonard Rouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: With The Creepy-Ass Crackahs
Posts: 8,156
Leonard Rouse
Default

There is corruption out there. But the price of commodities is not arbitrarily set by some financial version of the CFR, set too high to soak you at the pump. Oil is CHEAP. It would be a deal at twice the price. That's what you dont get. And it would be even cheaper if the consumer price weren't tax laden.
 
Old February 28th, 2013 #40
John from Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,158
Default

Quote:
Ludicrous. Again, there is a sell on the other side of every buy, and vice versa. Also, the vast majority of contracts never reach delivery, and (I'm 99% sure of this. . .not researching tonight) many more barrels are traded as futures than ever could be delivered. You're factually incorrect.
You're just babbling Leonard. I have already pointed out that the vast majority of futures contracts are speculative. Due in part to the fact that only a small amount of oil is actually traded in these markets.


Quote:
You can use a contract on WTI to hedge Russian oil and you can use a IPE contract to hedge North Slope. That's the whole point of having a benchmark. It's not a bad thing.
Nonsense. The point of having a benchmark is to account for variations in quality and processing costs in oil from different regions. The problem with trading only a few preferred grades of oil is that it creates a shortage where none exists.
 
Reply

Share


Thread
Display Modes


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 PM.
Page generated in 0.14307 seconds.