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Old January 26th, 2008 #1
Alex Linder
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Default #1 OKC Bombing Thread

Patrick Briley
March 24, 2007
NewsWithViews.com

Convicted Oklahoma City (OKC) bombing conspirator Terry Nichols has alleged that former high level FBI official Larry Potts gave instructions to Timothy McVeigh to orchestrate the bombing. Nichols claims McVeigh said this before the bombing in a "slip of the tongue" when McVeigh said he was angry with Potts for "changing the target".

The seriousness of Nichols' allegation against Larry Potts lies partly in the fact that at the time of the OKC bombing Potts was an Assistant Deputy Director of the FBI who was put directly in charge of the OKC bombing investigation on April 19, 1995. In early May 1995 Potts was next promoted to the Deputy Director of the FBI, the "number two man" in the FBI under Director Louis Freeh.

Many are skeptical of Nichols allegations since he is a convicted mass murderer. However, people should also be skeptical of Larry Potts because of Potts' questionable role at the Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho sieges by the FBI. Potts was censored by the FBI and removed from being Deputy Director for changing FBI rules of engagement that led to the shooting of Vickie Weaver by Lon Horiuchi at the Ruby Ridge siege.

Weldon Kennedy replaced Potts to conduct the OKC bombing investigation and then was made Deputy Director of the FBI after Potts was removed as Deputy Director in July 1995. Danny Defenbaugh was next named to head the OKC bombing investigation. Defenbaugh himself left the FBI in 2001 after it was discovered that thousands of FBI documents Defenbaugh was responsible for relating to the OKC bombing had been withheld at the federal trials of McVeigh and Nichols. Weldon Kennedy also later resigned from the FBI after being accused of lying to Congress about corrupt practices at the FBI crime lab. Every one of the senior FBI officials Louis Freeh had named to head the OKC bombing investigation left their high-level positions in disgrace and joined the FBI's hall of shame. None of these high level FBI officials were ever prosecuted.

But even if it should later be shown that McVeigh did not directly take instructions from Larry Potts, it can still be conclusively shown that high-level FBI officials including Potts and Louis Freeh were behind the FBI instructing provocateurs to encourage and help McVeigh do the OKC bombing. FBI teletypes, memos and 302 reports already obtained by Jesse Trentadue clearly reveal high-level FBI officials used and protected provocateurs to encourage and help McVeigh including Shawn Kenny, German national Andreas Strassmeir, Dave Hollaway, and a member of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) who worked in and out of the FBI infiltrated white supremacist compound, Elohim City, in far Eastern Oklahoma. The spiritual leader for Elohim City, Reverand Milar was an FBI informant. An FBI 302 report obtained by Jesse Trentadue shows that McVeigh attended a meeting with FBI informants and provocateurs at Elohim City in 1994.

Shawn Kenny was an Army private that was involved in Midwest bank robberies with McVeigh. Andreas Strassmeir was in the US with an expired visa, knew McVeigh, encouraged him to blow up federal buildings and gave him advice on explosives. Dave Hollaway was a CIA pilot that introduced Strassmeir to Elohim City and then helped Strassmeir escape the INS to Germany via Mexico after the OKC bombing. Hollaway gave McVeigh advice on where to park his truck bomb for optimal damage and how to rent the truck without being easily detected. Public statements by McVeigh defense attorney Stephen Jones and an article by Ron Ostrow of the LA Times indicate that Louis Freeh knew Strassmeir was at Elohim City in 1993. FBI teletypes show that Freeh knowingly allowed Dave Hollaway to help Strassmeir escape. The FBI later used Hollaway as a negotiator in the 1997 Montana Freeman standoff with the FBI.

Larry Potts was a chief investigator for Louis Freeh during the prosecution of a Georgia mail bombing case called VANPAC that involved interaction with informant members of SPLC before the OKC bombing. Interestingly enough, a formal DOJ report later confirmed FBI crime lab chemist Frederick Whitehurst's allegations that FBI crime lab officials gave misleading if not false testimony in the courts not only about the VANPAC case but also about forensic analysis of the truck bomb used in the OKC bombing. Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa publicly accused Kennedy of lying to Congress about the FBI crime lab and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Larry Potts came under DOJ and Congressional investigation in part because of use of the US military in the Waco operation, a violation of the Posse Comitatus statute. The FBI's use of provocateur Shawn Kenny in the OKC bombing plot was also a violation of the Posse Comitatus statue because Kenny was a private in the US Army. The penchant of Larry Potts of illegally using SPLC members in VANPAC and military personnel in WACO was repeated in the OKC bombing. The forensic evidence was "misrepresented" by the FBI under Potts and Freeh in the VANPAC and OKC bombing cases.

Assistant Deputy Director of the FBI, Danny Coulson was also assigned to the OKC bombing investigation. Coulson had worked with Larry Potts at Ruby Ridge and Waco. There have been persistent allegations that Larry Potts and Coulson were in OKC early, very near to the time of the OKC bombing.

WorldNetDaily reported that Danny Coulson checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before the OKC bombing. Coulson referred in a report he filed with the FBI on May 16, 1995 to a clandestine operation targeting religious extremists (like at Elohim City) as his initial reason for going to OKC. Travel records and vouchers for Coulson and Larry Potts were listed as "missing," according to documents provided to WorldNetDaily.

Coulson traveled to Kingman Arizona to present a proffer, a plea bargain agreement to McVeigh's neighbor, Michael Fortier between April 28 and 29, 1995. The proffer was prepared by Freeh's and Clinton's legal counsel for the FBI and White House, Howard Shapiro. Coulson wrote in his book No Heroes that he encountered James Rosencrans brandishing a rifle at FBI agents when Coulson arrived to present the proffer.

Rosencrans was a drug dealer who testified at the OKC bombing federal grand jury in June and July 1995. Rosencrans claimed he gave McVeigh methamphetamine in exchange for guns stolen from gun dealer Roger Moore. Four employees at the Travelers Aid in OKC down the street from the Murrah Building saw Rosencrans and FBI provocateurs Shawn Kenny and Muslim Mujahid[in] Menepta with McVeigh's car at the Travelers Aid the day before the OKC bombing .

While Potts and later Weldon Kennedy ran the OKC bombing investigation, Coulson told FBI sketch artist Jean Boylan not to make sketches of a John Doe seen with McVeigh in OKC because he "did not want to help the defense." Boylan did not make sketches of numerous John Does seen with McVeigh in OKC by reliable Travelers Aid witnesses and Army recruiters inside the Murrah Building. Coulson likely was concerned Boylan might have sketched some of the FBI provocateurs seen with McVeigh.

Weldon Kennedy also did his part to cover-up his and the FBI's provocateur role in the OKC bombing, not only while he headed the OKC bombing investigation after Potts, but also when he later assumed Potts' position as Freeh's top Deputy Director.

According to Kevin Flynn of the Rocky Mountain News, Kennedy personally shutdown the FBI investigation into Robert Jacques. Jacques was a military man who had been with McVeigh and Nichols at the Cassville, Missouri real estate office of William Maloney and Joe Davidson in November 1994. Kennedy shutdown the investigation when FBI agents learned that Jacques was "one of ours."

While head of the Phoenix, Arizona FBI office, Kennedy had been in a position to monitor the OKC bombing plot activities via Rosencrans and informants in the Arizona militia that knew McVeigh including the head of the militia, Jack Oliphant and members Robert Jacks and Gary Alan Land. FBI documents obtained by Jesse Trentadue show the FBI had informants in the Arizona militia. Jacks and Land were neighbors of McVeigh in Arizona and followed McVeigh to OKC the day of the OKC bombing and afterwards to Perry, OK where McVeigh had been taken when arrested by the OK Highway Patrol.

While in Arizona, Kennedy specialized in using armored cars in FBI sting operations. In the OKC bombing a man named Robert Jacks was in an armored car observing the OKC bombing according to AP reports. There are persistent allegations that Weldon Kennedy, like Potts and Coulson were in OKC early, very near to the time of the OKC bombing.

An informant at Elohim City named Carol Howe identified men plotting to blow up federal buildings to her BATF agent handler Angela Findley Graham. Graham and Howe did not know the men were FBI provocateurs. As a result of Howe's and Graham's undercover work, the BATF planned a raid on Elohim City for March 1995 that, if successful, would have likely averted the OKC bombing in April 1995. However, the head of the OKC FBI office, Bob Ricks met with the head of the BATF in OK and persuaded the BATF to call off the raid on Elohim City. Ricks no doubt knew of the FBI provocateurs at Elohim City from high-level FBI officials like Potts and Freeh.

Bob Ricks knew Larry Potts and Danny Coulson because all three men were deeply involved in the WACO siege in 1993. Ricks worked with Potts, Coulson, and Kennedy on the OKC bombing investigation until October 1995 when Ricks resigned and was made head of the OKC Department of Safety under OK governor Frank Keating.

But Bob Ricks had more forewarning of the OKC bombing than just Elohim City.

The entire federal family of Ricks' FBI agents, US Marshals and federal judges in OKC was given a serious and official warning of an Islamic terrorist assisted attack on the OKC federal building complex in late March 1995 according to testimony by US prosecutor Beth Wilkinson in a November 1996 federal hearing for the OKC bombing.

Three days before the OKC bombing, the OKC FBI office was warned by William Northrup of an attack on the OKC federal building complex that included the Murrah Building. Northrup was a dual U.S. and Israeli intelligence asset who traveled from Florida to OKC to deliver the warning.

Reliable witnesses place Bob Ricks in front of the Murrah Building no more than 20 minutes after the bombing. If these witnesses' stories are true, then Rick's alibi for the time of the bombing is false and there would be further indication of Rick's prior warning. Ricks said his pager alerted him, as he was getting ready to tee off at the Fire Lake Country Club golf course in Shawnee, OK, 40 minutes away from downtown OKC.

There is a possibility that Robert Hanssen, a senior FBI counter terrorism official close to Louis Freeh, compromised the FBI's Elohim City operation to the KGB. Hanssen was later sentenced to life in prison for spying for the KGB. One of the men at Elohim City known to the BATF and FBI was Dennis Mahon, a member of the Klu Klux Klan who gave speeches in Tulsa, OK on behalf of Saddam Hussein and received a monthly stipend from Iraq of $200 per month. Mahon visited Russia and had ties to the KGB. Was Robert Hanssen aware of Mahon's activities at Elohim City for the KGB and Iraqis? When arrested, McVeigh had phone numbers of Iraqi intelligence agents.

The "old boy" FBI high-level leadership crony network involved in the OKC bombing provocations showed only contempt when they scammed the public with Larry Potts even at his retirement. The August 2001 Congressional Record has this entry:

"The Washington Times reported that a group of FBI managers staged a conference entitled 'Integrity in Law Enforcement'' that was merely a sham and a cover, so that senior FBI managers could obtain improper reimbursements for traveling to a retirement party for veteran agent Larry Potts [in 1997]… No one was disciplined other than to receive letters of censure."

For more details please see my new book The Oklahoma City Bombing Case Revelations

© 2007 Patrick Briley - All Rights Reserved

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Patrick Briley is a Navy Viet Nam era veteran who served on a Polaris ballistic missile nuclear submarine patrol in the Pacific. His Polaris submarine patrol in far East Asia near China was historically significant and exceptionally dangerous.

His Naval service was from 1968 to 1976 during the Viet Nam era. He was a battalion commander of his Naval ROTC unit and a Midshipman on board the ballistic missile submarine, SSBN 624, the Woodrow Wilson. He was chosen to serve under Admiral Rickover as a project engineer at Naval Reactors near Washington DC. Patrick Briley started research and investigation into terrorist attacks after the Oklahoma City bombing.

Patrick submitted his findings concerning the OKC bombing and the 9-11 attacks in briefings to high-level staff for the Senate Judiciary and Senate and House Intelligence committees, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, and the 9-11 Commission.

E-Mail: [email protected]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Briley/Patrick39.htm
 
Old January 26th, 2008 #2
Mike Mazzone of Palatine
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I read McVeigh's biography, "American Terrorist". Did you know that he was executed on 6/11/2001? Just turn the six upside down and look at what date you get.

It's also rumored that McVeigh is still alive. Witnesses to his execution say that he was still breathing long after the purportedly lethal injection was given and they were simply asked to leave the execution viewing room.

Last edited by Alex Linder; February 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 PM.
 
Old January 27th, 2008 #3
Mishko Novosel
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LMAO, this whole thing was a setup..... Alex we discussed this last night, and found a decent video of the reporters saying on "LIVE" Televitz, they've found more bombs in the building... I'd like to know what was in that building that they needed to get rid of? But my opinion that they were doing a practice run for when they need to gear up the American people for another Pearl Harbor type event so they could get the war drums beating....


 
Old January 27th, 2008 #4
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Mishko Novosel View Post
LMAO, this whole thing was a setup..... Alex we discussed this last night, and found a decent video of the reporters saying on "LIVE" Televitz, they've found more bombs in the building... I'd like to know what was in that building that they needed to get rid of?
There wasn't anything. The point was to produce an event that would serve as as pretext for cracking down on domestic terrorists and extremism, thereby taking the steam out of the militia movement, which was strong and building at that time.
 
Old January 27th, 2008 #5
Alex Linder
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Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?

Hotel receipt shows top terror man showed up 9 hours before blast

Posted: January 19, 2002

By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

The FBI's top counterterrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alfred P. Murrah Building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNetDaily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.

The Embassy Suites Hotel receipt of Danny Coulson, then-director of the FBI's Terrorist Task Force and founding commander of the bureau's Hostage Rescue Team was dated April 19, 1995, with a check-in time of "00:20" – military time for 12:20 a.m. (Editor's note: His last name is spelled "Coulsen" on the receipt, but it indicates he is with the "FBI," located at "50 Penn Place, Suite 1600; OKC, OK.")

The truck bomb exploded at 9:03 a.m., devastating half the building and killing 168 men, women and children.

According to the receipt, Coulson checked out of his hotel – room 406 – April 27 at 11:16 a.m.

The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the FBI's official denial of prior knowledge of the OKC bombing was first reported by J.D. Cash of the McCurtain (Oklahoma) Daily Gazette – a small-town paper that has been out in front of scores of OKC-related stories.

"Since the bombing, officials at the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the FBI had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah federal building," the paper said Wednesday. However, "evidence of Coulson's clandestine trip fits squarely with a substantial body of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained [via Freedom of Information Act requests] by" the paper – "evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counterterrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups they considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of the nation."

WorldNetDaily reported June 1 that Ricardo "Rick" J. W. Ojeda, a former FBI special agent involved in the original Oklahoma City bombing investigation, was given details of a relationship between convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh and members of a white supremacist group that may have helped McVeigh carry out the attack.

McVeigh was put to death 10 days later. His accomplice, Terry Nichols, is facing state charges in Oklahoma for his role in the bombing after having been convicted in 1997 on federal charges.

In his 1999 book, "No Heroes: Inside the FBI's Secret Counter-Terror Force," authored with Time magazine's Elaine Shannon, Coulson said he was in Dallas the morning of the Murrah attack. He said he and his wife were house-hunting and staying with friends:

We were finishing up breakfast with some old friends in Fort Worth when we heard the first news bulletin, something about a big explosion up in Oklahoma. ... My pager went off, displaying a number I knew by heart. "It's the SIOC," I said. The Strategic Information and Operations Center at the Hoover Building in Washington. John O'Neil, the headquarters official in charge of domestic terrorism investigations, answered. His voice was flat. "I guess you heard a bomb went off in Oklahoma City. 9:02 a.m." "Yes, it's all over the news." "A lot of people have been killed and injured. We don't know what we have. Ricks needs help. Can you catch the next flight?" "We're right in the middle of thunderstorms," I said. "Nobody in Texas is getting on a plane. I'll drive. ..."

But according to the Gazette's investigation – aided by the discovery of the hotel receipt – Coulson was apparently already in OKC, "tied to an FBI investigation that ... was part of a highly sensitive operation that few outside the criminal division of the FBI knew existed until long after it was disbanded."

That operation, allegedly begun by then-Attorney General Janet Reno in August 1994, was dubbed VAAPCON, assigned the number MC-111 (Major Case 111) and was aimed at investigating "the so-called religious right in America and possible ties to violent acts," the paper said.

Cash said he was unclear what VAAPCON meant, but he believes it has something to do with a Reno initiative to investigate violence against abortion providers.

The paper also noted that Coulson referred to MC-111 as his initial reason for going to Oklahoma City, using the case number in a May 16, 1995, report filed he filed with the bureau.

Others have also tied McVeigh and Nichols to white supremacist groups. WND reported June 27 that Indiana State University criminologist Mark Hamm, in a book published last fall, named former Aryan Republican Army member Mark Thomas, originally of Pennsylvania, and other members of his group as alleged coconspirators.

Based on court records and other evidence, WND also reported similar connections May 30.

Others, however, have said they believe McVeigh and Nichols were tied to Middle Eastern terrorists.

Jayna Davis, a former investigative reporter for the NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly May 14 that she had gathered massive evidence pointing to a conspiracy between McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization.

Davis said last year that she took her evidence – including hundreds of court records, 24 sworn witness affidavits and reports from law enforcement, intelligence and terror experts – to the FBI, which refused to accept the material or the leads.

Some details may never be revealed. For example, travel records and vouchers for Coulson and fellow FBI agent Larry Potts, also assigned to investigate the OKC bombing, were listed as "missing," according to documents examined by WND. One for Coulson, in the amount of $1,313.80, was dated the day of the explosion – "4-19-95."

"After this many years, the National Archives regularly disposes of these kind of records," FBI spokeswoman Barbara Miller told the Gazette.

Coulson could not be contacted for comment.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a
 
Old January 27th, 2008 #6
Alex Linder
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Old January 27th, 2008 #7
Mishko Novosel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
There wasn't anything. The point was to produce an event that would serve as as pretext for cracking down on domestic terrorists and extremism, thereby taking the steam out of the militia movement, which was strong and building at that time.
I think you hit the nail on the head. As simple as the idea is, it makes perfectly good sense, because ultimately that's what happened..... I do think that it also assisted in laying the groundwork for future i.e. 9/11 type events that could be used to control public opinion....
 
Old January 27th, 2008 #8
Alex Linder
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Yeah - you gotta remember how it was then, and not look back on it from today. Back then, angry white men and militias were the big deal.

But really, how brazen or just plain stupid is the FBI? Weeks of training by these "elite" third-string linebackers and their top guy leaves a paper trail at a hotel?

Last edited by Alex Linder; January 31st, 2008 at 08:54 PM.
 
Old January 27th, 2008 #9
Alex Linder
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Default Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishko Novosel View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head. As simple as the idea is, it makes perfectly good sense, because ultimately that's what happened..... I do think that it also assisted in laying the groundwork for future i.e. 9/11 type events that could be used to control public opinion....
Another thing is, Clinton was in office then, not a Bush. And they were real unhappy with burgeoning anti-liberal talk radio and fed up Middle Americans, and they were whining about the right-wing hate machine, and looking to take it down a peg.

Clinton after OKC acted exactly like Bush after 9/11 - he used a government production to crack down on Constitutional liberties.
 
Old February 8th, 2008 #10
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Originally Posted by Mike Mazzone of Palatine View Post
It's also rumored that McVeigh is still alive. Witnesses to his execution say that he was still breathing long after the purportedly lethal injection was given and they were simply asked to leave the execution viewing room.
Witnesses and rumors also say McVeigh is working a security detail for Jim Morrison and Elvis, who are hiding somewhere in the Caribbean, and plan on releasing a CD sometime in 2009.
 
Old February 16th, 2008 #11
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Hillary Ordered The Final Massacre At Waco

Robert Morrow
2-14-8


Hillary, not Bill, not Janet Reno, not Webb Hubbell, not Vince Foster was the one who ordered the final assault. Final death count: 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 children and two pregnant women.

"A Woman in Charge"
From Robert Morrow
Clinton expert
Austin, TX 512-306-1510


Hillary was the one who ordered the FUBAR final assault on the holed-up Branch Davidians in Waco on April 19th, 1993. The final death count from this disastrous fiasco was 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 childrene and two pregnant women. The appalling disaster at Waco was what motivated Timothy McVeigh to participate in the terroristic bombings in Oklahoma City, two years later on April 19, 1995.

Hillary was putting pressure on Vince Foster (her longtime boyfriend, sexual partner and emotional husband) and Webb Hubbell who was the #3 guy at Justice Department, to have a forceful resolution to the Waco standoff. Webb Hubbell is also probably the father of Chelsea, not Bill Clinton: Check out post #207 on this FreeRepublic web link to see a photo of the strikingly similar Webb Hubbell and Chelsea:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-...?q=1&&page=201

One big reason Hillary place Hubbell in the #3 spot at the Justice Department was so that he would not have to go through a Senate confirmation hearing where the ugly and probably true details about Hubbell being the biological father of Chelsea might be revealed in this process. Carl Bernstein in his book on Hillary gets close to this, "Foster vaguely repeated his fear that the confirmation process would hurt Hillary. He seemed to know something that Nussbaum didn't." [Bernstein, A Woman in Charge, p. 253] Likewise Hillary placed Vince Foster, her longtime lover and emotional husband, at the #2 spot in the office of White House counsel, although Vince (Hillary's best friend) was really superior in power over White House counsel Bernie Nussbaum. Vince basically was the one who "vetted" Nussbaum for the spot.

"Give me a reason not to do this," Janet Reno is said to have begged aides shortly before orders were issued in the final assault. After the complete disaster of the final assault on the Branch Davidians, Bill Clinton was refusing to face the media, and Janet Reno stepped out to take full responsibility in front of the cameras. But the real "Woman in Charge" responsible for the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 children and two pregnant women was was Hillary, not Janet Reno, not ev

During an interview in early February 2001 the former White House aide alleged that Hillary Clinton pressured the late Vincent Foster to resolve the Waco standoff. As a resulen and children were killed. Appearing on CNN's "Larry King Live" Tripp suggested that Foster, at Mrs Clinton's direction, transmitted the order to move on the Branch Davidian's Waco compound, which culminated in a military style attack on the wooden buildin

Her accusations lend weight to charges made previously by Special Forces expert and Waco investigator, Steve Barry. According to the former Special Forces member, Hillary set up a special "crises centre" in the White House to deal with Waco. Serving with her in the centre was Vincent Foster who, according to his widow was subsequently: "fuelled by horror at the carnage at Waco for which the White House had ultimately been responsible."

Foster himself was found dead, from a gun-shot wound to the head, in a Virginia park three months later. Could he have known too much about Waco?

Journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard maintains that Foster had been "drafting a letter involving Waco" on the very day of his death. Moreover Evans-Pritchard says that Foster kept a Waco file in a locked cabinet that was off limits to everyone, including his secretary.

Prior to Waco, Foster was "dignified, decent, caring, smart" says Linda Tripp; in its aftermath though, she said: "Vince was falling apart."

She was with the former White House deputy counsel when the news about Waco broke on television. "A special bulletin came on showing the atrocity atWaco and the children. And his face, his whole body slumped, and his face turned white, and he was absolutely crushed * knowing the part he had played."

"And he had played the part at Mrs Clinton direction," said Tripp.

Moreover, there was a marked contrast between Foster's heartfelt emotion at the Waco tragedy and Hillary Clinton's, Tripp insists: "Her reaction was heartless".

Her accusations give further weight to allegations first levelled in the 1999 documentary on the deadly confrontation, "Waco: A New Revelation." The film featured the account of former House Waco investigator T. March Bell. "One of the interesting things that happens in an investigation is that you get anonymous phone calls," Bell explained in the film. "And we in fact received anonymous phone calls from Justice Department managers and attorneys who believe that pressure was placed on Janet Reno by Webb Hubbell, pressure that came from the first lady of the United States."

Mrs Clinton grew more and more impatient as the Waco stand-off came to dominate the headlines [Hillary want to get so-called "heath care reform" done, and Waco was taking all the headlines in spring, 1993, so Hillary forced the Waco resolution with disastrous results and a lot of death - Robert Morrow ] during the early months of the Clinton administration, said Bell. It was she, according to Bell's sources, who pressured a reluctant Janet Reno to act.

"Give me a reason not to do this," Reno is said to have begged aides shortly before orders were issued for the final assault.

Sources include: The SPOTLIGHT Oct 30 1999 and NewsMax.com, Tripp: Hillary Directed Waco. Saturday, Feb. 10, 2001

Robert Morrow
[email protected]

http://www.rense.com/general80/hillms.htm
 
Old February 16th, 2008 #12
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I always thought that Vince Foster "suicide" didn't smell right. The easy capture of McVeigh, a so-called desperado, didn't smell right either. It had overtones of Lee Harvey Oswald "conveniently" hiding in a movie house awaiting capture. McVeigh gets caught in some BS traffic stop? When's the last time anyone was executed as quickly as McVeigh(besides Lee Harvey Oswald)?
 
Old February 19th, 2008 #13
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Read Evans-Prichard's account of Vince Foster turning-up in Ft. Marcy Park in The Secret Life of Bill Clinton-- a good book that ought to be circulating right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMRATHELL View Post
I always thought that Vince Foster "suicide" didn't smell right. The easy capture of McVeigh, a so-called desperado, didn't smell right either. It had overtones of Lee Harvey Oswald "conveniently" hiding in a movie house awaiting capture. McVeigh gets caught in some BS traffic stop? When's the last time anyone was executed as quickly as McVeigh(besides Lee Harvey Oswald)?
McCurtain Daily Gazette ^ | 6/2/05 | J.D. Cash and Roger Charles
McVeigh defense document confirms explosives found at Nichols' home By J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles (U.S. Marine Corps, retired) McVeigh's admissions to the defense team a decade ago appear to confirm Terry Nichols' allegations that the bombers purchased explosives from Arkansas collector Roger Moore. (Contributed photo) <> Pushed to the point of anger and frustration, Timothy McVeigh told a member of his defense team that Arkansas gun collector Roger Moore sold him explosives before the Oklahoma City bombing, "Because he knew that I would put them to good use." The cold-blooded admission was made at the El Reno...

Cash, a "salty" character and hard drinker, and Charles seemed to me to be like Rush Limbaugh-- framing the acceptable limits of dissenting opinion.

Never mind that the FBi was not able to confirm ANFO residue. Roger Moore was momentarily questioned in the Terry Nichols trial about a nitro fuel sticker on his file cabinet, as if to suggest that could easily be a line of questioning that could be pursued.* Ammonium nitrate combined with nitro fuel makes a stronger, faster explosive than ammonium nitrate and fuel oil and Moore built and ran high speed boats out of South Florida and used nitro fuel. Some say Moore at least had worked with spooks with his boat business: The robbery at his home smells funny, too, and at least looks like an insurance job and maybe a way to explain why stuff he supplied wound-up with Nichols and McVeigh, say, if it were traced to Moore.

And then there is George Eaton and The Patriot Report. Google that guy and note where he lived, who he hung-out with, and where he was.. If there was ever a model for something that would have worked as a pre-internet operation to locate people to watch, blame, rob, and murder, that would be it. McVeigh had a copies of The Patriot Report, too, as did Bill Mueller, who was introduced to Andreas Strassmeir by Eaton.

This isn't over until its over. People with a lot to lose if the truth comes out eventually retire and/or die, have a change of heart, write a book. I'm still convinced that Timothy Coombs, a half-breed AmerIndian who preached Lenne-Lenape Indians were White and mixed that with a mishmash of already Judaized Seventh-day Adventist and Christian Identity doctrines, and Coombs' and his friends of similar persuasion were at least accessories in the Mueller robbery and triple murders. Strange, isn't it, that Coomb's has never been arrested when there are only a couple of places he could be and everybody knows the woman he hung-out with when her husband was away-- one of the few people in the world could stand him? She was a skin & bones adrenaline junkie and drama queen also tight with Eaton and sent Eaton money. Eaton gambled and was paranoid. My theory is that Coombs, who admitted he was a narc in New Jersey when he was a minor-- likely to avoid prosecution, is in witness protection courtesy of BATFE and that Eaton was a low-level tool.

Somebody out there knows what happened. My guess it is people Bill Mueller knew in Missouri. I'd like to know more about the Coombs connection to the Mueller murders because that was another tightly-controlled trial. A then a tightly-controlled BATF informant stated that Coombs arrived at The Shadows motel shortly after the Muellers were noticed missing with a woman at about the time Chevie Kehoe arrived with the Mueller's goods-- a LOT of guns and ammunition. And all of a sudden nothing was ever heard about Coombs again and the informant's handler, who had been shot at Waco, made light of the statement and disparaged his informant's credibility without ever explaining how he could have known about Coombs.

*[What did the prosecution know and when did they know it?]
Oklahoma City Bomber Nichols Says a 3rd Man Took Part in Plot
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 4, 2005 | Richard A. Serrano

WASHINGTON — After a decade of silence, Terry L. Nichols, who was convicted in the Oklahoma City bombings, has accused a third man of being an accomplice who provided some of the explosives used to kill 168 people at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building 10 years ago. Nichols, in a letter written from his cell at the U.S. government's Supermax prison in Colorado, said Arkansas gun collector Roger Moore donated so-called binary explosives, made up of two components, to bomber Timothy J. McVeigh that were used in Oklahoma City, as well as additional bomb components that recently were found in Nichols' former home in Kansas.

Last edited by -JC; February 19th, 2008 at 05:11 PM.
 
Old May 27th, 2010 #14
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Default "The heir to all of 'my friend' J.D. Cash's work"

Scott Horton [Left-liberal Anti-War.com internet radio] Interviews Roger Charles

Hear the interviewer say:

"[Roger Charles,] the heir to the journalism of 'The Great' J.D. Cash"

"Richard Guthrie* was a disturbed, racist, a nasty piece of work."

"McVeigh was a neo-Nazi," something no one close to McVeigh ever asserted.

July 24, 2009


Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version
here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.


Roger Charles
, a freelance journalist and investigator, discusses J.D. Cash’s pursuit of the truth in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, evidence that disproves Laurie Mylroie’s Saddam Hussein/imposter-Ramzi Yousef theory, the FBI’s numerous informants in Elohim City, the DOJ’s attempt to hide any mention of suspects other than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols and the possible involvement of German national Andreas Strassmeir as an agent provocateur.


MP3 here
. (42:12)


Roger Charles was a career Marine Corps officer and
has worked as an investigative reporter for major media organisations and news programs such as as the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, the New Yorker, CBS 60 Minutes and Frontline.
_______________________
*June 05, 2006


Richard Guthrie's Suicide

New Details Of 'Aryan' Bank Robber And OKBOMB Suspect's Death In Prison


By J.M. Berger
INTELWIRE.com


Richard Guthrie was a bank robber with ties to U.S. white supremacist movements. He and other members of his bank robbery gang, the Aryan Republican Army, have long been suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing. He died in prison as the result of an alleged suicide.

For more documents and a fuller description of the story of Richard Guthrie, and another alleged prison suicide with striking similarities, see The Trentadue Files on INTELWIRE.

INTELWIRE previously released more than 100 pages of files detailing the ATF's investigation of Guthrie. Some of the documents here reference Guthrie's suspected ties to the Oklahoma bombing. Now, for the first time, INTELWIRE is releasing the official record of Guthrie's death for journalists, researchers and the general public.

The new documents were obtained from the U.S. Marshals Service via the Freedom of Information Act. They include the complete autopsy record, as well as documents relating to the investigation of Guthrie's death by local police and prison officials, and U.S. Marshals Service custody records.

Source: INTELWIRE FOIA Requests (Donate)

Richard Guthrie Autopsy and Death Records

Findings reported appear consistent with suicide. Interestingly, neither the autopsy nor the arrest records make reference to Guthrie having a tattoo -- an alleged distinguishing characteristic that many investigators have cited in attempting to prove Guthrie was the never-apprehended OKC suspect known as "John Doe 2."

Richard Guthrie Prison Records, Suicide Details

Among many interesting items in the prison records, handwritten notes indicate Guthrie left two suicide notes and had threatened to attempt an escape shortly before his death. The testimony of the prison's guards, again, appears consistent with suicide.

Richard Guthrie Custody Records, (USMS)

The formal record of Guthrie's term of custody with the U.S. Marshals, which ended in his death.

Letter to Guthrie from L.A. Times Reporter

As previously reported, Guthrie had contemplated telling his story to the press shortly before his death. This letter from Judy Pasternak of the L.A. Times was found in his cell.

Guthrie Spotted By Marshal In 1993

Perhaps the most significant of the documents retrieved in this FOIA request from the perspective of possible connections with the Oklahoma City bombing. A suspect believed to be Guthrie was spotted in 1993 by a U.S. Marshal in Noel, Mo., who said the suspect was attempting to "recruit young boys" into "the Brotherhood." It has never been conclusively determined whether Guthrie had a formal affiliation with an organized white supremacist group. The "Brotherhood" here may refer to the Aryan Brotherhood, a prison gang affiliated with the Aryan Nations.

Previously:

ATF Investigative Files: Richard Guthrie

Posted by J.M. Berger | Permalink

Last edited by -JC; May 27th, 2010 at 10:49 AM.
 
Old April 29th, 2008 #15
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Their secure networks are a fucking joke. But with every attack big brother "learns", which is why not have many attacks in the past has been to our adantage. But if they think nothing is in the works they are damn wrong.
 
Old July 3rd, 2008 #16
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Yikes, was just going to make a new thread when I saw this, here's an interesting article....
Quote:
In case you missed it: Was Timothy McVeigh Really Executed?


Written by Rixon Stewart

Thursday, 03 July 2008

No really, that’s a serious question. For throughout the whole OKC bombing saga the mainstream media has ignored some serious inconsistencies.

For example: some of those killed in the Oklahoma City bombing were not killed in the blast itself but died later in highly suspicious circumstances. One such was Mike Loudenslager who was responsible for saving the lives of many children in the Murrah Building’s day care centre.

In the weeks prior to the actual bombing, Loudenslager, a GSA employee, had been complaining about the large amounts of ordinance and explosives being brought into the building by the B.A.T.F. and D.E.A, who had offices there. Others had been complaining too, including the building’s security director who filed a formal compliant and promptly lost his job. Thereafter fire marshals were denied access to the building when they arrived to inspect some remodelling that had been done to the day care centre.

Fearing the worst, Loudenslager and the day care operator began warning the children’s parents not to bring their children into the building. Had they not done so, the death toll probably would have been far higher.

Shortly after the actual bombing, Loudenslager was seen by many witnesses, including police officers and rescue workers, involved in a very “heated” confrontation. Much of his anger being due to the fact that he felt that the B.A.T.F. and D.E.A. were responsible for the extent of the blast damage.

However to the astonishment of those who had seen him in the immediate aftermath of the bombing, it was later reported that Loudenslager was found at his desk, a victim of the 9:02 A.M. bombing. This was reported only AFTER he had been seen alive and well by numerous rescue workers. Despite this he is now on the official list of victims claimed by the blast.

His death was to play a part in the demise of two others, Dr. Don Chumley and Terry Yeakey, both of who were at the Murrah Building that fateful morning. They had something else in common too; at the time of their deaths each had been trying to deliver evidence that Loudenslager was alive AFTER the bombing which is said to have killed him.

Terry Yeakey met his demise whilst delivering evidence to a multi-county task force that, he thought, would establish the truth about the Oklahoma City bombing. Whilst Dr. Chumley was killed some months earlier, when his personal jet “crashed”, attempting to do the same. Meanwhile the mainstream media has ignored compelling evidence contrary to the official line that McVeigh acted alone in delivering a truck carrying a fertilizer bomb to the Murrah Building. Yet literally hundreds have attested otherwise.

One such is retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former head of the U.S. Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory. His request that the bombsite be preserved for further investigation was completely ignored by the U.S. Government; instead the site was covered over three weeks ahead of schedule, effectively burying the remaining forensic evidence.

Moreover many eyewitnesses reported not one, but two explosions, and this is a certifiable fact. Investigations at the Oklahoma Geological Survey at the University of Oklahoma revealed seismographic records indicating two explosions, ten seconds apart. The first occurred at 9: 02 and 13 seconds with another following at 9:02 and 23 seconds. According to General Partin and many explosive experts that investigator Ted Gunderson has spoken to, this rules out the explanation of a truck bomb.

A more plausible explanation, they say, is a barometric bomb. This works via a process that involves not one but two explosions; the first uses an explosive known as PETN which releases a lethal cloud of chemicals, ammonium nitrate and aluminium silicate. This cloud is energised with what is described as a “high potential electrostatic field.” A few seconds later there follows another blast using an explosive called PDTN that ignites the cloud created with a much greater force than TNT.

This would account for the two blasts heard by witnesses and it would also explain the extensive damage caused by the explosion. However such a bomb would be beyond the scope of a supposed ‘lone nut’ like Timothy McVeigh. In fact knowledge of how to construct such a device is available to only a few with the highest level of security clearance because the barometric bomb is still highly classified. In other words only those with a high level of security clearance in the U.S. Government and security services would have access to the know how to construct such a device.

Not only did McVeigh not have such clearance but he didn’t have the necessary know how to make such a device himself. All of which suggests that McVeigh was not the bomber but a patsy, a fall guy who was lined up to take the rap for the bombing. And his reward? A place in the history books with a new life and a clean bill of health after his “execution” maybe? Significantly, by court order there was no autopsy and no cremation of his body after execution, this despite the fact that both are standard practise for executed prisoners. Moreover according to reporters covering the execution, McVeigh seemed remarkably calm. So there were no last minute nerves, no clinical autopsy, no cremation and maybe no body too?

And in a final ironic twist McVeigh’s death certificate – if authentic - lists him a “soldier” and his employer as the US Army. Yet he supposedly left the US Army back in 1993.

Sources include: brasscheck, Team Infinity, skolnick.com and rense.com/general/okc.htm

Sgt. McVeigh was an outstanding soldier. He did what he was told, anticipated what had to be done (and) took pride in his work," - Capt. Jesus Angel Rodriguez, McVeigh's commanding officer during the Gulf War, testifying at his sentencing hearing

“The shallow breathing continued... or what appeared to be shallow breathing... even after they pronounced him dead.” - Susan Carlson reporting on McVeigh’s execution for WLS Chicago, broadcast minutes after the sentence was carried out.

Postscript. The above was first posted on rumormillnews, a forum often used by dissident US government insiders. One anonymous respondent wrote that he had personally heard McVeigh being told that: “they wouldn’t let him die inside.”

Source: The Truth Seeker

 
Old October 23rd, 2008 #17
Greg Gerdes
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It appears that most, if not all posting on this thread are pretty well informed about this issue. However, I would like to point out an article by JD Cash in case some of you missed it. This article simply enraged me.

If you haven't read this yet, believe me, you need to:


In the matter of Kenneth Michael Trentadue

J.D. Cash / McCurtain Dailey Gazette | April 7, 2004


http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/...entadue_01.htm


BTW, sorry for linking to that P.O.S. Alex Jones website, but it has links to all 5 parts of the story. The story is not short, but I guarantee that you will be glad you spent the time to read it.

This is a very good article to have people read who are waking up from their slumber. I find it's about as good as the USS Liberty story.
 
Old November 2nd, 2009 #18
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Default FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...t_okc_196.html

We Told You So: FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing



By Pat Shannan

Only Americans with short memories were surprised by the new accusations of the FBI’s ongoing cover-up of the Oklahoma City bombing, as charged by Utah attorney Jesse Trentadue. It actually has been going on since about 2 p.m. on April 19, 1995—following five hours of honest reporting by news people on the scene.

The remarkable change in the official story and the twisting of the facts made it plain that the federal government and the controlled news media had collaborated to deceive us. The initial reports that we have maintained on videotape for the past 14 years reveal an altogether different story than what’s in the history books.

Immediately, the tragedy was thought to be (and reported as) a gas explosion from inside the building as evidenced by the immense amount of rubble blown out into the street and beyond. A worker from the newspaper office across the street later told us of the children’s toys from the Murrah nursery being blown through his windows. However, it took only a few minutes to cast aside the accident theory and realize that a bomb had exploded inside.

Next it was announced that this was not only some kind of terrorist attack but that an unexploded bomb was discovered in the rubble and was being removed by the Oklahoma County bomb squad. Soon there was another.

“The first bomb did go off,” says the OKC reporter. “The second and third explosives, if you can imagine this, were larger than the first. It is just incredible to think that there was that much heavy artillery that was somehow moved into the downtown federal building.”

Indeed it was, but such truth would lead to demands for an investigation that might reveal way too much information (just as the independent investigations later did) and had to be quashed.



These reports, of course, came before the federal government and a compliant national media could combine to massage the data, change the number of explosions to one, change its position to out in the street and change the bomb’s components to non-existent ammonium nitrate fuel oil (ANFO).

Gov. Frank Keating, a former FBI agent and high-ranking BATF official before his 1994 election to the state’s highest office, went on TV to say, “Obviously, whatever did the damage to the Murrah Building was a tremendous, a very sophisticated explosive device.”

“It had to have been done by an explosives expert,” said government officials.

During these news reports in the first few hours, we also saw hundreds of people fleeing down the street away from the Murrah Building when the FBI had announced the necessity of clearing the area because of the danger of the second and third devices being accidentally detonated during removal. Actually, it was a ploy to remove file cabinets and surveillance tapes with fewer witnesses.

By 2 o’clock, newsmen were singing a different tune, because Mayor Ron Norick had just told them that it was “a car bomb loaded with 1,200 pounds of ANFO, and we have confirmed that with the BATF.”

The reported 1,200 pounds would then begin to increase to 2,000, 3,000 and finally 4,800 pounds, by the next day—the amount necessary to meet the area’s damage.

However, this also required that the transporting vehicle be expanded to a “truck” because a car could not have handled the required load.

It was a total fabrication, as future tests and examinations showed no evidence whatsoever of any ANFO in the blast area. ANFO has two distinguishing characteristics following its detonation: lingering nitrate gas and flames.

Neither was present at the Murrah Building following the blasts. The only visible flames were the gasoline fires from the cars in the parking lot, and rescue workers were on the scene immediately without gas masks.

Before the case was three days old, the FBI didn’t want to hear any information that did not pertain to their two designated patsies: Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

County K-9 Deputy Don Browning was on the scene in the early minutes and was soon subjected to intentional disinformation, as later admitted to him by an FBI agent. He was told that “the Middle Easterners seen beating a hasty retreat from the scene in two cars and a yellow pickup truck” was a story made up to “confuse the news media.”

“Problem was, it confused the rest of law enforcement, too,” says Browning. He had also witnessed the FBI agents removing the surveillance cameras and tapes from their mounts. These were the tapes that the FBI denied even existed for more than 14 years before finally surrendering them last month, but only with doctored results.

“I got angry all over again last week,” Browning told AFP, “when they quit lying about the existence of those tapes and produced them.”

Oklahoma rancher Hoppy Heidelberg was on the federal grand jury and saw first-hand the railroading of the two patsies. When he complained and tried to investigate, as a grand juror should, he was kicked out and sent home by Judge David Russell. He was later delivered a surreptitious message telling him that “if I didn’t sue, they would let me live.”

An Oklahoma City police sergeant wasn’t so lucky. He was murdered the following year because he would not relent in his pursuit for truth. Stabbed 13 times and shot through the head, Terry Yeakey’s death in a rural cow pasture was ruled a suicide.

When Yeakey’s body was discovered, 40 uniformed officers combed the area for an hour in a search for the gun, without success. However, when FBI Special Agent in Charge Bob Ricks arrived by helicopter, it took him less than five minutes to “discover” a revolver in the grass near the body.

The official OKC bombing story has never been anything but a cover-up, and the FBI has been the chief architect of the cover-up from the beginning.

Pat Shannan is a contributing editor to American Free Press.
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Old November 2nd, 2009 #19
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Thanks for posting this.

Quote:
We Told You So: FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing
Orly? Kind of like the way they lost the front door of the Branch Davidian home in Waco because it showed incoming ZOG rounds?
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Old November 2nd, 2009 #20
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Default Fbi releases ‘edited’ okc tapes

Long-awaited tapes show mayhem, but key portions of videotapes—just before bombing—are blank


By Pat Shannan

When the FBI released long-secret security tapes showing the chaos immediately after the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue was elated. His excitement subsided in one day, however, when he realized that the doctored finished product was not that for which he had been waiting for more than a decade.

This is only the latest chapter of a government coverup that began at 9:03 a.m. on April 19, 1995. Trentadue said he has received about 30 security tapes, including some images that were used as evidence at Timothy McVeigh’s trial. McVeigh was convicted on federal murder and conspiracy charges and executed in 2001, even though private investigations showed that the Murrah Building was blown up from the inside and no ammonium nitrate fuel oil, which McVeigh was alleged to have used, was found at the scene.

FBI agents did not report finding any security tapes from the Murrah Building itself. However, in 2005, Oklahoma County K-9 Deputy Don Browning told this reporter and others that he watched as the FBI dismantled security cameras and removed the tapes at the Murrah Building only an hour after the blasts. “The tapes are blank in the minutes before the blast and appear to have been edited,” Trentadue said. He retrieved the tapes through a Freedomof Information Act (FOIA) request that the FBI had been fighting for years.

“The real story is what’s missing,” he said. The tapes turned over by the FBI, came from security cameras various companies had mounted outside office buildings near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. They are blank at points before 9:02 a.m., during the crucial seconds prior to the explosions. “The more important thing they show is what they don’t show,” Trentadue said. “These cameras would have shown the various roads and approaches to the Murrah Building.



“Four cameras in four different locations going blank at basically the same time on the morning of April 19, 1995? There ain’t no such thing as a coincidence,” Trentadue said. He said government officials claim the security cameras did not record the minutes before the bombing because “they had run out of tape” or “the tape was being replaced.

“The interesting thing is they spring back on after 9:02,” he said. “The absence of footage from these crucial time intervals is evidence that there is something there that the FBI doesn’t want anybody to see.”

The soundless recordings show people rushing from nearby buildings after the bomb went off. Some show people fleeing through corridors cluttered with debris. None shows the actual explosion. Trentadue began his own inquiry into the bombing after his brother Kenneth died at the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center in August 1995, after being picked up on a parole violation. Kenneth was never a bombing suspect, but Jesse Trentadue alleges guards mistook his brother for one (perhaps John Doe #2) and beat him to death during an interrogation. The official cause of Kenneth Trentadue’s death is listed as suicide, but his body had 41 wounds and bruises, that could have come only from a beating.

A judge in 2001 awarded Kenneth Trentadue’s family $1.1 million for extreme emotional distress in the government’s handling of his death.

The FBI in the past refused to release the security camera recordings, leading Trentadue and others to contend the government was hiding the evidence that would prove that others were involved in the attack.

“It’s taken a lawsuit and years to get the tapes,” Trentadue said. Trentadue said he is seeking more tapes along with a variety of bombing-related documents from the FBI and the CIA. His FOIA request for 26 CIA documents was rejected in June. A letter from the National Geospatial- Intelligence Agency, which reviewed the documents, said their release “could cause grave damage to our national security.”

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...tapes_195.html
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