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Old June 21st, 2009 #1
Alex Linder
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One of science's most puzzling mysteries - the disappearance of the Neanderthals - may have been solved. Modern humans ate them, says a leading fossil expert.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...iences-journal
 
Old June 21st, 2009 #2
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How the hell do they know that the unfortunate Neanderthal's own people didn't make a post-mortem or sacrificial jowl sammich?

Can we eat the kikes now?
 
Old July 18th, 2009 #3
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I'm always amused when scientists find one extreme example of something then present it as the norm.
 
Old July 18th, 2009 #4
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Quote:
Rozzi believes the jawbone provides crucial evidence that humans attacked Neanderthals, and sometimes killed them, bringing back their bodies to caves to eat or to use their skulls or teeth as trophies. "For years, people have tried to hide away from the evidence of cannibalism, but I think we have to accept it took place," he added.
If, as they say, Neanderthals were a different species from us, how can eating them be considered cannibalism?
Just another gratuitous slam against "caveman" Whites curtesy of the Frankfurt school.
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Old July 18th, 2009 #5
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There is a new theory on why the Neanderthals died out. Infectious diseases which seem a lot more plausible to me than cannibalism, changing climate, competition from modern humans or absorption.


Quote:
Illness brought down early human rival: scientist
Tuesday, 07 July 2009 09:51 KM News

Infectious disease carried by Homo sapiens was responsible for the demise of the Neanderthal, according to a new theory

Scientists seeking to uncover the mystery of what happened to the Neanderthals should look to the modus operandi of another great die-off 30,000 years later, argues a Danish expert in an article submitted to the Journal of Archaeological Science.

In the article, professor emeritus Bent Sørensen of the University of Roskilde wrote that disease carried by Homo sapiens migrating out of Africa was responsible for the gradual extinction of our prehistoric cousins in the same way that European illnesses ravaged Native American populations in the sixteenth century.

‘Modern humans brought illnesses they could survive themselves, but for Neanderthals they were deadly,’ Sørensen said.

Sørensen’s article challenges the leading theories about why Neanderthals disappeared from Europe 30,000 years ago.

Those theories suggest that the stockier Neanderthals were unable to adapt to a changing climate or that they were killed off as humans encroached on their territory. But according to Sørensen, skeletal remains show no conclusive evidence that Neanderthals had been killed as a result of violence caused by humans.

He hopes efforts currently underway to map the DNA from the remains of a 38,000 year-old Neanderthal found in Croatia can uncover evidence to support his theory.

Similar methods, he said, have been used to identify tuberculosis in 5,000 year-old remains discovered in Egypt.

http://www.cphpost.dk/component/cont...html?task=view
 
Old January 26th, 2010 #6
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Talking neanderthal and man

There's so many theories of why Neanderthal suddenly vanished from the fossil record about 24,000 years ago, that they couldn't adapt, disease, extermination by cro-magnon, etc.

But there is another intriguing possibility, neanderthal still lives ...in us whites.

I've always been fascinated by prehistoric cave paintings, especially those found in Europe (painted by our ancestors), they are far more sophisticated and numerous than similar works found anywhere else in the world ...almost like comparing a Michelangelo with a child's crayon drawing.

And they are also older, again by far.

Here's a few samples of cave art from Chauvet Cave, Vallon Pont-d'Arc France discovered in 1994. You are looking at art that is 30,000-32,000 years old according to radiocarbon dating, the oldest artwork produced by man found to date anywhere in the world.












These ancient European artists used methods not seen anywhere else, like scraping the walls flat and clean of detritus before working on them, but the real kicker is when you view them by torchlight (the way they were meant to be viewed) ...it suddenly hits you that they used techniques in creating these works like perspective, shading etc. that supposedly weren't 'invented' until the Renaissance era.

This cave was painted during a time when cro-magnon and neanderthal cohabited Europe. Europe (from Ireland to the Urals), the Middle East, North Africa and India are where most all traces of ancient Neanderthal are found, curiously our extinct human cousin's turf corresponds exactly with the traditional realm of the Caucasian race.

Both human species had co-existed uneasily for two hundred thousand years, using similar tools and technologies and living somewhat similar lifestyles and then all of a sudden about 35,000 years ago there is this creative explosion in homo sapiens that noone really understands, and 10,000 years later neanderthal disappears from the planet.

Might some genetic change have made possible the interbreeding of the two, and might the seemingly unlimited creative potential of this hybrid (us) have been made possible from the union of two related forms of man who up until that time the record shows had shown hardly any of the characteristic works of modern humans?

Quote:
The Way We Are by Stan Gooch

In April 1999 Professor Trinkaus of Washington University announced that fossil finds in Portugal some 25,000 years old proved conclusively that Neanderthal man and Cro-Magnon man had interbred. That of course had long been obvious to anyone with eyes in his head—‘you can observe Neanderthal at any public gathering’ as Oswald Spengler remarked.

But now it is official. What the scientific establishment had for so long implacably denied is true—we are a hybrid species. We are not simply the descendant of Cro-Magnon man.

But now too we have to accept and face the massive consequences of this situation. Or to put matters more positively, we now have the answers to the central and hitherto inexplicable puzzles of the human condition. We can now for instance understand the nature and source of the unending conflicts which tear human communities apart from Northern Ireland to Bosnia to Indonesia to Nigeria. We can now also understand why we have a universal political structure of diametrically opposed left wing versus right wing views.

But not even that is all.

In 1994 Jean-Marie Chauvet, a pot-holer, stumbled upon the magnificent cave paintings of what is now known as the Chauvet grotto. These 33,000 year old paintings are in every way the equal of the work of the great artists of our present day—Da Vinci, Picasso, Michael Angelo. Robin McKie in his book Ape Man emphasises that Neanderthals had shown no ability to produce art of this quality—but adds, crucially: ‘The problem is that neither had Cro-Magnon.’ Art critic John Berger writes: ‘Art did not begin clumsily or gradually—there was grace from the start.’ So the astonishing Chauvet achievement bursts on us out of the blue from nowhere.

And this remarkable and hitherto inexplicable artistic situation is equally duplicated on all fronts—not merely the artistic. (The situation is in fact almost enough to make one believe in von Däniken.) As Robin McKie emphasises, thus far both Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon had used the same kind of tools in the same kinds of ways for almost two hundred thousand years.

But then from around 35,000 BP there is a sudden explosion in the complexity and style and use of tools throughout the whole world human community—as also of all aspects of culture. Where, asks McKie, did the modern world suddenly spring from and why? He then states, frankly, that he and the scientific community have no explanations to offer.

Yet the answer is in fact not far to seek.

When animal and plant breeders cross widely divergent species of plants and animals a simple miracle occurs. Offspring are produced which have qualities and characteristics possessed by neither parent. This outcome is known as ‘hybrid vigour’. It is precisely what animal and plant breeding is all about.

So is it not then abundantly clear that the crossing of Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon—who had of course evolved as two totally separate species over many millions of years—suddenly, overnight, produced ourselves and our remarkable abilities?

A sobering thought in passing is this. It is virtually certain that the miraculous (or rather standard!) biological event that produced ourselves occurred simply and solely as the by-product of the systematic slaughter and extinction of Neanderthal by Cro-Magnon—and in the process the rape and enslavement of Neanderthal woman.

Yet there is much more still.

When widely divergent species of animal are crossed and subsequently observed in the laboratory the offspring are frequently found to have inherited conflicting sets of instincts, evolved in their parents’ separate evolutionary pasts.

As an actual instance we have the offspring of the cross between a Peach-Faced Lovebird and a Fischer’s Lovebird. The Peach-Faced Lovebird when building its nest carries leaves and strips of bark tucked into its rump feathers. The Fischer’s Lovebird however transports these items in its beak. The hybrid cross is found to possess both sets of instinctive instructions. So the unfortunate offspring tears itself a strip of bark. The Peach-Faced instinct now tells the bird to insert this into its rump feathers, which the youngster does.

But at this point the Fischer’s instinct intervenes and instructs the bird not to let go of the material because it has not yet arrived at the nest site. So the youngster resumes the ready-to-fly position with the bark still in its mouth. But then the Peach-Faced instinct, noting the bark in the mouth, once again intervenes and reminds the bird to place the bark in its rump feathers. This the youngster again attempts to do. But now once more the Fischer’s instinct reminds the bird that it is not yet at the nest site—so the ready-to-fly position is again resumed with the bark still in the youngster’s beak . . .

The see-saw process continues on and on and on—with the young bird exhibiting ever greater confusion and distress.

That is the kind of psychological impasse which is often created when widely divergent animal species are crossed. It is also what occurred when Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon interbred. Now we can understand why our culture has so many established and enduring metaphors, and so many enduring and central storylines, attesting to our ‘double life’: the divided self, the two souls within one breast, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, Cain and Abel, Jekyll and Hyde, Faust. This too is why, for example, we long for true, everlasting love on the one hand—yet hanker for promiscuity and one-night stands on the other,

How could two such diametrically opposed instinctive drives exist side-by-side in terms of any normal evolutionary scenario, within any one single species? Oh, but surely we are not governed by instinct to that extent? Oh, but surely we are. The greater part of our social life and culture is centrally governed by ‘fossil behaviours' evolved by our ancestors in the distant past. Desmond Morris in particular has written several books on this subject.

Very briefly here, my own proposals in respect of Neanderthal life (based on a study of these matters over some forty years) are that Neanderthal society was matriarchal and completely promiscuous, led by women and driven by sex—exactly as is the case with the recently discovered bonobos pygmy chimpanzees of Africa. Life was communal (we can interject the word 'commune-ism' here).

Neanderthal evolved originally in bush or jungle conditions, hence his shortness (classic Neanderthal males in particular were a mere average 5' 4'' in height) and was also near-sighted as appropriate to this environment. And importantly, predominantly left-handed (for reasons too complex to summarise here).

Cro-Magnon certainly evolved on the open plains, hence his tallness. (Average height of Cro-Magnon males was originally calculated to be 6' 0''—though the more accepted figure today is 5' 10''.) He developed pair-bonding and lived with one partner for life, on a defined small piece of territory adjacent with other similar pairs. (Thus the gibbon communities of today are actually the perfect model for suburbia.) He was appropriately long-sighted, and right-handed.

The above statements are to an extent a matter for debate. What follows is not—and is readily testable in respect of the items listed. Some of these items have in fact already been formally investigated and confirmed. My own research supports the remainder. It is quite clear that the left wing and the Labour Party represent our Neanderthal side, while the right wing and the Conservative Party represent our Cro-Magnon ancestry. And so if Labour MPs and members (I stress members) of the Labour Party were compared with Conservative MPs and members of the Conservative Party then the former would show:

A greater incidence of the big toe being shorter than the second toe. (All Neanderthal fossil feet and fossil footprints have the big toe shorter than the second toe. All Cro-Magnon fossil feet and fossil footprints show the big toe longer than the second toe.)

Greater incidence of the so-called simian line in the palm of the hand. (The simian line is a single division across the centre of the palm, which all apes have but most humans do not. The norm for humans is two lines—the so-called head and heart lines.)

A larger cerebellum.
Greater incidence of the pyknic body type and a lower incidence of the athletic body type.
A higher incidence of left-handedness.
A lower incidence of male pattern baldness.
Greater incidence of prominent eyebrows (including eyebrows which meet in the middle) and brow ridges.
A greater number of offspring (i.e. higher fertility).
Higher incidence of clinical neurosis and a lower incidence of clinical psychosis.
Higher incidence of short-sightedness and a lower incidence of long-sightedness.
Better night vision.
Greater susceptibility to hypnosis.
Greater proportion of sleeping time spent in dreaming time.
Higher incidence of 'drop-out' behaviours (sleeping rough, alcoholism, unemployment, drug addiction, etc.).
Shorter average height.
Lower average IQ.

These same differences would also be shown when members of religious organisations were compared with members of scientific institutions; when southern Europeans were compared with northern Europeans; when eastern Europeans were compared with western Europeans; when Welsh were compared with English; when Northern Ireland Catholics were compared with Northern Ireland Protestants; when members of the Untouchable caste were compared with members of the Brahmin caste; when short individuals were compared with tall individuals.

As said, a number of these intercorrelations have already been confirmed by large-scale formal surveys. Thus left-handed men show far less baldness than right-handed men. Drop-outs sleeping rough on American streets also show far less baldness. Jews in every European country show more short-sightedness than non-Jews. Northern Europeans are taller than southern Europeans—and so on. How does (or could) orthodoxy account for these findings? Orthodoxy has no answers.

As already stated, conflict within human societies (as opposed to conflict between nations purely over disputed territory) can be very well understood in terms of our dual human ancestry—and cannot in fact be genuinely understood in any other. From Northern Ireland to Nigeria, though the labels given to the conflicts concerned differ, what we see on closer inspection is one group defending and seeking to impose a more Neanderthal life-style versus another defending and seeking to impose a more Cro-Magnon life-style.

The French Revolution, the Russian Revolution and the Taleban movement were/are Neanderthal driven. The Nazi movement, the Ku Klux Klan and Serbian ethnic cleansing were/are Cro-Magnon driven.

Look at John Hume standing next to David Trimble in Northern Ireland and you will see ‘Neanderthal’ standing next to ‘Cro-Magnon’. The quotation marks are of course crucial. If David Trimble were purely Cro-Magnon he would not be short-sighted. If John Hume were purely Neanderthal he would not be as tall as David Trimble.

We are all simultaneously and permanently both.

That situation, as we have briefly seen, is at once our greatest blessing—and our greatest curse.

Stan Gooch 2000
http://www.aulis.com/twothirds2.htm

Updated Neanderthal physical reconstructions:



Another article on the possibility of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal interbreeding:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33721697/

Evidence of inter-species violence?

http://www.livescience.com/history/0...al-murder.html

Just a theory, but it seems more plausible than 'space aliens' altering the human genome to create an intelligent being from a semi-animal.

The author of the article I quoted Stan Gooch is an odd individual, he's also reviled by leftists for assigning 'inferior' (Neanderthal) qualities to them and curiously, jews.

One more thing to ponder.

Last edited by T.Garrett; January 26th, 2010 at 07:12 AM. Reason: ooops, was half asleep when I posted this
 
Old May 14th, 2014 #7
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I find this "science" ridiculously speculative.
 
Old May 15th, 2014 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meg Kafka View Post
I find this "science" ridiculously speculative.


The main stream academic science is also speculative....

WHY would the Cro Magnuns wipe out the Neanderthals unless they were a threat and ugly as all get out....?...Think about it ....

The idea of the "Boogyman" in our myths is the Neanderthal....IMHO.
 
Old October 9th, 2014 #9
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200,000-year-old Neanderthal human remains found in Normandy

French archaeologists have discovered some 200,000-year-old Neanderthal human remains in Normandy in an extremely rare discovery in northwestern Europe.

The three long Neanderthal bones - from the same left upper limb - found in September at Tourville-la-Rivière in Normandy and exhibited on Thursday in Paris are human fossils which are extremely rare in this part of Europe.

The remains are attributable to the Neanderthal lineage - in the Middle Pleistocene era - and are aged between 236,000 and 183,000 years.

The open-air site of Tourville-la-Rivière was discovered in 1967 as a sand and gravel quarry and has since been monitored by archaeologists.

It is the second time such remains have been found in France. In the 1980s two partial crania from this period were excavated from Biache-Saint-Vaast in northern France.

All known human fossils from this period have been found from ten sites in either Germany or England.

The three bones most probably belong to an adult or an older adolescent but archaeologists said they were unable to tell if it's a male or female remain.

The archaeological discovery was published on Thursday on the American sciences review Plos One.

http://www.english.rfi.fr/visiting-f...ound-normandy?
 
Old April 3rd, 2015 #10
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Altamura Man yields oldest Neanderthal DNA sample

by Bob Yirka r

(Phys.org)—A team of researchers working in Italy has confirmed that Altamura Man was a Neanderthal and dating of pieces of calcite which were on the remains has revealed that the bones are 128,000 to 187,000 years old. In their paper published in the Journal of Human Evolution, the team describes how they extracted a small bone sample and examined it and what they found by doing so.

Altamura Man was discovered in a cave in southern Italy in 1993 by cave explorers. The finding was reported to researchers at the University of Bari. The remains were embedded in rock and were covered in a thick layer of calcite (they lie in a karst borehole rich in limestone amid running water.) It was thought that excavating the remains would cause irreparable damage and thus, they have remained in situ for over twenty years, leaving researchers to rely on casual observation for their studies. For that reason, there was some debate initially about morphology and age. Subsequent study led to a consensus that the remains (only the head and part of a shoulder are visible) were that of an archaic Neanderthal, of a Homo genus believed to have been widespread in Europe 200,000 to 40,000 years ago.

The researchers with the current project began their work six years ago—a tiny part of shoulder bone (and stalactite fragments) was extracted and brought back to the lab for study. Analysis by Uranium-thorium dating revealed that the calcite was formed 172,000 to 130,000 years ago—during the penultimate quaternary glaciations period. The team also reports that samples of DNA have also been retrieved from the sample, and because of the age, represent the oldest such samples ever recovered from Neanderthal remains.

It is believed that Altamura Man wound up in such a peculiar spot after falling in a well and getting stuck—it is assumed he starved to death, or died from lack of water intake. The researchers next plan to test the DNA sample to see if it can be sequenced—if so, they are hopeful it might reveal new details about the evolution of hominids in general and perhaps more about the early history of the Neanderthal.

In 1993, a fossil hominin skeleton was discovered in the karst caves of Lamalunga, near Altamura, in southern Italy. Despite the fact that this specimen represents one of the most extraordinary hominin specimens ever found in Europe, for the last two decades our knowledge of it has been based purely on the documented on-site observations. Recently, the retrieval from the cave of a fragment of bone (part of the right scapula) allowed the first dating of the individual, the quantitative analysis of a diagnostic morphological feature, and a preliminary paleogenetic characterization of this hominin skeleton from Altamura. Overall, the results concur in indicating that it belongs to the hypodigm of Homo neanderthalensis, with some phenetic peculiarities that appear consistent with a chronology ranging from 172 ± 15 ka to 130.1 ± 1.9 ka. Thus, the skeleton from Altamura represents the most ancient Neanderthal from which endogenous DNA has ever been extracted.

http://phys.org/news/2015-04-altamur...rthal-dna.html
 
Old June 24th, 2015 #11
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http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/n...ry-338751.html Neanderthal DNA discovery
291823
Wednesday, June 24, 2015
By John von Radowitz

DNA from a Romanian who lived in a prehistoric “dark age”, when early modern humans and Neanderthals were neighbours, is strong evidence that the two groups interbred in Europe.

It had been thought that early humans leaving Africa mixed with Neanderthals in the Middle East 50,000 to 60,000 years ago, before migrating to Europe and Asia.

The new evidence shows that early-modern humans, and their sub-species cousins, interbred more recently, during the 5,000 years they co-existed in Eurasia, before Neanderthals became extinct.

The owner of the jawbone from which the DNA was extracted had a Neanderthal in his family tree as recently as four to six generations back, the research shows.
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Nine percent of his genome, or genetic code, may have been Neanderthal in origin. The Neanderthal contribution to the genomes of non-African people living today is between 1% and 3%.

Professor Svante Paabo, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, in Germany, said: “It is such a lucky and unexpected thing to get DNA from a person who was so closely related to a Neanderthal. I could hardly believe it, when we first saw the results.”

Neanderthals had been living in Europe for 200,000 years when the first, early-modern humans left Africa to colonise Europe and Asia.

The two groups were different in appearance — Neanderthals were shorter and stockier, with prominent brow ridges — but genetically close for interbreeding.

Neanderthals died out 40,000 years ago. Perhaps they were unable to compete with more sophisticated, modern humans for resources, such as food and shelter. They may also have been ‘assimilated’ through interbreeding.

Archaeological evidence, including changes in tool-making technology, burial rituals and body ornaments, indicates cultural exchange between the two groups when they co-existed in Europe. But because of a lack of skeletons, scientists know little about these people’s physical and genetic make-ups.

The rare jawbone was unearthed from the Pestera cu Oase (“cave with bones”), in the Carpathian Mountains of south-west Romania, in 2002. Radiocarbon dating determined it was between 37,000 and 42,000 years old, and the presence of both X and Y sex chromosomes confirmed it was male.

Results of the genetic analysis appear in the latest online edition of the journal, Nature.

Co-author, Dr David Reich, from Harvard Medical School, in the US, said: “The sample is more closely related to Neanderthals than any other modern human we’ve ever looked at before. We estimate that 6% to 9% of its genome is from Neanderthals. ”
 
Old September 18th, 2017 #12
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Default Neanderthal DNA

If anyone interested,
DNA from Neanderthals is very close to modern African DNA. Africa is also considered as the first continent with living people.
 
Old December 6th, 2017 #13
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That's a new one on me, Ian Zonja. I see the contrary opinion expressed many times in the last year or two, on several various sites, that blacks are probably the only extant hominoid race with -0- Neanderthal admixture.

But just last week I stumble upon this 7-1/2-year-old TBS article by Willis Carto, that Jews are perhaps mostly Neandertal (and the photos are exceptionally persuasive! -and the illustration is not bad either.)

https://thechosenites.files.wordpres...eanderthal.pdf

"For the past 50 or 60 millennia, Neanderthal/Semites
have tried to interbreed with Cro-Magnon/Aryans.This has
somewhat improved the Jewish phenotype at the expense of
the latter."
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Old December 6th, 2017 #14
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How did this thread get from:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
One of science's most puzzling mysteries - the disappearance of the Neanderthals - may have been solved. Modern humans ate them, says a leading fossil expert.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...iences-journal
To?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossian View Post
"For the past 50 or 60 millennia, Neanderthal/Semites
have tried to interbreed with Cro-Magnon/Aryans.This has
somewhat improved the Jewish phenotype at the expense of
the latter."

Cro-magnons are "Aryans" because they ATE the Neanderthals
.. Everything is crystal clear now. I'm glad I was able to save time by not reading the posts between A thru Z.
 
Old December 6th, 2017 #15
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Quote:
Jack Mohr
Nevertheless, our focus need to be directed on the elimination of the common jew.
 
Old February 6th, 2018 #16
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Dig site in Tuscany reveals Neanderthals used fire to make Tools


A team of researchers from several institutions in Italy has found evidence of Neanderthals using fire to craft tools approximately 171,000 years ago. In their paper published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the group outlines where the naturally preserved wood artifacts were found and how they discovered their purpose.

https://phys.org/news/2018-02-site-t...tools.html#jCp
 
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