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Old February 19th, 2008 #21
Doesn't suffer fools well
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Default Things that don't smell right

Read Evans-Prichard's account of Vince Foster turning-up in Ft. Marcy Park in The Secret Life of Bill Clinton-- a good book that ought to be circulating right now.

Originally Posted by KMRATHELL View Post
I always thought that Vince Foster "suicide" didn't smell right. The easy capture of McVeigh, a so-called desperado, didn't smell right either. It had overtones of Lee Harvey Oswald "conveniently" hiding in a movie house awaiting capture. McVeigh gets caught in some BS traffic stop? When's the last time anyone was executed as quickly as McVeigh(besides Lee Harvey Oswald)?
McCurtain Daily Gazette ^ | 6/2/05 | J.D. Cash and Roger Charles
McVeigh defense document confirms explosives found at Nichols' home By J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles (U.S. Marine Corps, retired) McVeigh's admissions to the defense team a decade ago appear to confirm Terry Nichols' allegations that the bombers purchased explosives from Arkansas collector Roger Moore. (Contributed photo) <> Pushed to the point of anger and frustration, Timothy McVeigh told a member of his defense team that Arkansas gun collector Roger Moore sold him explosives before the Oklahoma City bombing, "Because he knew that I would put them to good use." The cold-blooded admission was made at the El Reno...

Cash, a "salty" character and hard drinker, and Charles seemed to me to be like Rush Limbaugh-- framing the acceptable limits of dissenting opinion.

Never mind that the FBi was not able to confirm ANFO residue. Roger Moore was momentarily questioned in the Terry Nichols trial about a nitro fuel sticker on his file cabinet, as if to suggest that could easily be a line of questioning that could be pursued.* Ammonium nitrate combined with nitro fuel makes a stronger, faster explosive than ammonium nitrate and fuel oil and Moore built and ran high speed boats out of South Florida and used nitro fuel. Some say Moore at least had worked with spooks with his boat business: The robbery at his home smells funny, too, and at least looks like an insurance job and maybe a way to explain why stuff he supplied wound-up with Nichols and McVeigh, say, if it were traced to Moore.

And then there is George Eaton and The Patriot Report. Google that guy and note where he lived, who he hung-out with, and where he was.. If there was ever a model for something that would have worked as a pre-internet operation to locate people to watch, blame, rob, and murder, that would be it. McVeigh had a copies of The Patriot Report, too, as did Bill Mueller, who was introduced to Andreas Strassmeir by Eaton.

This isn't over until its over. People with a lot to lose if the truth comes out eventually retire and/or die, have a change of heart, write a book. I'm still convinced that Timothy Coombs, a half-breed AmerIndian who preached Lenne-Lenape Indians were White and mixed that with a mishmash of already Judaized Seventh-day Adventist and Christian Identity doctrines, and Coombs' and his friends of similar persuasion were at least accessories in the Mueller robbery and triple murders. Strange, isn't it, that Coomb's has never been arrested when there are only a couple of places he could be and everybody knows the woman he hung-out with when her husband was away-- one of the few people in the world could stand him? She was a skin & bones adrenaline junkie and drama queen also tight with Eaton and sent Eaton money. Eaton gambled and was paranoid. My theory is that Coombs, who admitted he was a narc in New Jersey when he was a minor-- likely to avoid prosecution, is in witness protection courtesy of BATFE and that Eaton was a low-level tool.

Somebody out there knows what happened. My guess it is people Bill Mueller knew in Missouri. I'd like to know more about the Coombs connection to the Mueller murders because that was another tightly-controlled trial. A then a tightly-controlled BATF informant stated that Coombs arrived at The Shadows motel shortly after the Muellers were noticed missing with a woman at about the time Chevie Kehoe arrived with the Mueller's goods-- a LOT of guns and ammunition. And all of a sudden nothing was ever heard about Coombs again and the informant's handler, who had been shot at Waco, made light of the statement and disparaged his informant's credibility without ever explaining how he could have known about Coombs.

*[What did the prosecution know and when did they know it?]
Oklahoma City Bomber Nichols Says a 3rd Man Took Part in Plot
Los Angeles Times ^ | May 4, 2005 | Richard A. Serrano

WASHINGTON — After a decade of silence, Terry L. Nichols, who was convicted in the Oklahoma City bombings, has accused a third man of being an accomplice who provided some of the explosives used to kill 168 people at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building 10 years ago. Nichols, in a letter written from his cell at the U.S. government's Supermax prison in Colorado, said Arkansas gun collector Roger Moore donated so-called binary explosives, made up of two components, to bomber Timothy J. McVeigh that were used in Oklahoma City, as well as additional bomb components that recently were found in Nichols' former home in Kansas.

Last edited by -JC; February 19th, 2008 at 05:11 PM.
Old February 19th, 2008 #22
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Default Cash (and Charles) article

McVeigh defense document confirms explosives found at Nichols' home
McCurtain Daily Gazette ^ | 6/2/05 | J.D. Cash and Roger Charles

Posted on 06/07/2005 10:03:34 AM PDT by GlockGrrl

McVeigh defense document confirms explosives found at Nichols' home

By J.D. Cash and Lt. Col. Roger Charles (U.S. Marine Corps, retired)

McVeigh's admissions to the defense team a decade ago appear to confirm Terry Nichols' allegations that the bombers purchased explosives from Arkansas collector Roger Moore. (Contributed photo)


Pushed to the point of anger and frustration, Timothy McVeigh told a member of his defense team that Arkansas gun collector Roger Moore sold him explosives before the Oklahoma City bombing, "Because he knew that I would put them to good use."

The cold-blooded admission was made at the El Reno federal correctional facility on Dec. 12, 1995.

These comments n along with many others n have been sealed from public view for nearly a decade. McVeigh was executed in Terre Haute, In. on June 11, 2001.

The discovery of this document provides support for disclosures made recently by McVeigh's convicted co-conspirator, Terry Nichols, that the bombers got explosives from Roger Moore n a man Nichols now describes as a government informant.

As proof, Nichols drew a map where some of the explosives were hidden underneath his former residence in Kansas. The FBI recently dug up those explosives and sent them to their lab at Quantico, Va.

What prompted the angry outburst by McVeigh was his government-appointed investigator's warning that the FBI was pressuring Moore to be much more cooperative. Indeed, Moore was crucial to the government's case, because of the relationship he shared with McVeigh prior to the bombing.

Prosecutors said Nichols robbed Moore at gunpoint on Nov. 5, 1994, then used some of the stolen property to finance the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

At trial, Moore said he could not identify his assailant because the subject wore a knit mask over his face during the robbery. However, since McVeigh had visited the property several times before the theft, Moore testified he believed McVeigh had set him up for the robbery.

The defense document obtained by the McCurtain Daily Gazette includes this tense warning from the investigator to McVeigh: "I mentioned that the FBI has been increasing the pressure on Moore and that it was just a matter of time before Moore decides to cooperate.

"I reminded McVeigh that comradery (sp) flies out the window when the noose begins to tighten. I told McVeigh that there was no doubt in my mind that Roger Moore could be a very damaging witness. …… (T)hat if it ever came down to making a choice about whose ass to save, that he (McVeigh) could kiss his ass goodbye."

The words proved prophetic. Moore and his girlfriend, Karen Anderson, eventually testified for the prosecution in all three bombing trials.

After the bombing, a large number of Moore's guns and other personal property were seized by FBI agents during a search of a home in Herrington, Ks., that Nichols occupied.

The FBI interviewed Moore and his girlfriend several times about their relationship with the accused bombers. However, nothing about selling any explosives became public.

But according to the Dec. 27 confidential defense memo prepared for attorneys Stephen Jones and Rob Nigh, McVeigh admitted that Moore sold him explosives on more than one occasion.

"Mr. McVeigh stated that during the months of August n September, 1994, Moore sold him nine Kinestiks at $10 each. Mr. McVeigh stated that Moore had cases of explosive Kinestiks, but that he didn't sell them to just anybody," the report reveals.

"Moore even commented to him that he didn't mind selling him the Kinesticks, because he knew that he (McVeigh) would put them to good use," McVeigh indicated, according to the memo.

McVeigh also told the investigator that Nichols' wife, Marife, once saw him (McVeigh) and Nichols practicing with explosives. McVeigh stated they were practicing with Kinestiks. The report also contains this highlighted information from the investigator: "Note that one Kinestik is equivalent to one stick of dynamite."

Some of the explosives McVeigh described a decade ago could well be in the possession of the FBI now.

No report of has been made public regarding details of the FBI's recent search of the old Nichols, residence. The FBI has only said the explosives recovered were real and apparently had been hidden under the house since the OKC bombing.

On April 1, the FBI uncovered a cache of explosives underneath Nichols' former residence, but only after they were pressured to conduct a new search of the property.

The location of hidden explosives came to light after Nichols volunteered the information from his cell at the Super Max facility in Florence, Col., where he is serving a life sentence.

Through an intermediary, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., learned that Nichols was trying to warn the public that there were explosives stashed underneath his former home, but the feds weren't listening.

Concerned that the information might be valid, Rohhrabacher took Nichols' information to Homeland Security with instructions to follow up on the tip.

Pressured to do an investigation, the FBI eventually returned to the property agents had scoured years earlier and found what bomb experts later described as "boxes of explosives." The embarrassed agency admitted they were right where Nichols said they would be.

Regardless of the find, the FBI was quoted by the Associated Press as saying the agency has no intention of going after Moore or anyone else Nichols implicates in these "jailhouse confessions."

"We believe the information that came out of the original investigation and we stand by the results of that investigation," FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza said.

District Attorney Wes Lane in Oklahoma City told the AP: "It disgusts me that Terry Nichols would further victimize the innocent by his prison cell ramblings."

The man Nichols accused of providing the explosives had this to say recently: "He is in prison for two life sentences and the only thing he can do to even entertain himself is come up with conspiracy theories and put them out there."
Old February 19th, 2008 #23
Doesn't suffer fools well
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Default My guess would be that Roger Charles didn't and won't do the book

I don't think that was his job.

The following by Davis (from Alex's WND post) was war mongering bullshit, too, but you can't blame 'em for trying for a grand slam.

"Others, however, have said they believe McVeigh and Nichols were tied to Middle Eastern terrorists.

"Jayna Davis, a former investigative reporter for the NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly May 14 that she had gathered massive evidence pointing to a conspiracy between McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization."

Last edited by -JC; February 19th, 2008 at 05:13 PM.
Old February 19th, 2008 #24
Alex Linder
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Alex Linder

Cash specifically discounts the neocon agitprop spread by liars such as Laurie Mylroie (sp?) that attempts to tie OKC to Muslims.
Old February 19th, 2008 #25
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Default If my theory is correct, that is what's necessary.

Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Cash specifically discounts the neocon agitprop spread by liars such as Laurie Mylroie (sp?) that attempts to tie OKC to Muslims.
The Middle Eastern connection is just too much of a whopper to discourage thoughtful, serious investigators. It was tried-out on the masses and it was disappointing how many so called patriots thought they had discovered something when they read what she wrote.

Rat poison must be mostly good stuff. Limbaugh, etc., make sense enough of the time to hook a lot of people who then relax and then start buying what they're selling.

The real benefit for government from the bombing was, as you said, smearing domestic dissidents, that and bouying up Clinton's sagging popularity. The Bin Laden connection was over the top.

Last edited by -JC; February 19th, 2008 at 06:10 PM.
Old April 29th, 2008 #26
Charles Martel
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Their secure networks are a fucking joke. But with every attack big brother "learns", which is why not have many attacks in the past has been to our adantage. But if they think nothing is in the works they are damn wrong.
Old July 3rd, 2008 #27
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Yikes, was just going to make a new thread when I saw this, here's an interesting article....
In case you missed it: Was Timothy McVeigh Really Executed?

Written by Rixon Stewart

Thursday, 03 July 2008

No really, that’s a serious question. For throughout the whole OKC bombing saga the mainstream media has ignored some serious inconsistencies.

For example: some of those killed in the Oklahoma City bombing were not killed in the blast itself but died later in highly suspicious circumstances. One such was Mike Loudenslager who was responsible for saving the lives of many children in the Murrah Building’s day care centre.

In the weeks prior to the actual bombing, Loudenslager, a GSA employee, had been complaining about the large amounts of ordinance and explosives being brought into the building by the B.A.T.F. and D.E.A, who had offices there. Others had been complaining too, including the building’s security director who filed a formal compliant and promptly lost his job. Thereafter fire marshals were denied access to the building when they arrived to inspect some remodelling that had been done to the day care centre.

Fearing the worst, Loudenslager and the day care operator began warning the children’s parents not to bring their children into the building. Had they not done so, the death toll probably would have been far higher.

Shortly after the actual bombing, Loudenslager was seen by many witnesses, including police officers and rescue workers, involved in a very “heated” confrontation. Much of his anger being due to the fact that he felt that the B.A.T.F. and D.E.A. were responsible for the extent of the blast damage.

However to the astonishment of those who had seen him in the immediate aftermath of the bombing, it was later reported that Loudenslager was found at his desk, a victim of the 9:02 A.M. bombing. This was reported only AFTER he had been seen alive and well by numerous rescue workers. Despite this he is now on the official list of victims claimed by the blast.

His death was to play a part in the demise of two others, Dr. Don Chumley and Terry Yeakey, both of who were at the Murrah Building that fateful morning. They had something else in common too; at the time of their deaths each had been trying to deliver evidence that Loudenslager was alive AFTER the bombing which is said to have killed him.

Terry Yeakey met his demise whilst delivering evidence to a multi-county task force that, he thought, would establish the truth about the Oklahoma City bombing. Whilst Dr. Chumley was killed some months earlier, when his personal jet “crashed”, attempting to do the same. Meanwhile the mainstream media has ignored compelling evidence contrary to the official line that McVeigh acted alone in delivering a truck carrying a fertilizer bomb to the Murrah Building. Yet literally hundreds have attested otherwise.

One such is retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former head of the U.S. Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory. His request that the bombsite be preserved for further investigation was completely ignored by the U.S. Government; instead the site was covered over three weeks ahead of schedule, effectively burying the remaining forensic evidence.

Moreover many eyewitnesses reported not one, but two explosions, and this is a certifiable fact. Investigations at the Oklahoma Geological Survey at the University of Oklahoma revealed seismographic records indicating two explosions, ten seconds apart. The first occurred at 9: 02 and 13 seconds with another following at 9:02 and 23 seconds. According to General Partin and many explosive experts that investigator Ted Gunderson has spoken to, this rules out the explanation of a truck bomb.

A more plausible explanation, they say, is a barometric bomb. This works via a process that involves not one but two explosions; the first uses an explosive known as PETN which releases a lethal cloud of chemicals, ammonium nitrate and aluminium silicate. This cloud is energised with what is described as a “high potential electrostatic field.” A few seconds later there follows another blast using an explosive called PDTN that ignites the cloud created with a much greater force than TNT.

This would account for the two blasts heard by witnesses and it would also explain the extensive damage caused by the explosion. However such a bomb would be beyond the scope of a supposed ‘lone nut’ like Timothy McVeigh. In fact knowledge of how to construct such a device is available to only a few with the highest level of security clearance because the barometric bomb is still highly classified. In other words only those with a high level of security clearance in the U.S. Government and security services would have access to the know how to construct such a device.

Not only did McVeigh not have such clearance but he didn’t have the necessary know how to make such a device himself. All of which suggests that McVeigh was not the bomber but a patsy, a fall guy who was lined up to take the rap for the bombing. And his reward? A place in the history books with a new life and a clean bill of health after his “execution” maybe? Significantly, by court order there was no autopsy and no cremation of his body after execution, this despite the fact that both are standard practise for executed prisoners. Moreover according to reporters covering the execution, McVeigh seemed remarkably calm. So there were no last minute nerves, no clinical autopsy, no cremation and maybe no body too?

And in a final ironic twist McVeigh’s death certificate – if authentic - lists him a “soldier” and his employer as the US Army. Yet he supposedly left the US Army back in 1993.

Sources include: brasscheck, Team Infinity, and

Sgt. McVeigh was an outstanding soldier. He did what he was told, anticipated what had to be done (and) took pride in his work," - Capt. Jesus Angel Rodriguez, McVeigh's commanding officer during the Gulf War, testifying at his sentencing hearing

“The shallow breathing continued... or what appeared to be shallow breathing... even after they pronounced him dead.” - Susan Carlson reporting on McVeigh’s execution for WLS Chicago, broadcast minutes after the sentence was carried out.

Postscript. The above was first posted on rumormillnews, a forum often used by dissident US government insiders. One anonymous respondent wrote that he had personally heard McVeigh being told that: “they wouldn’t let him die inside.”

Source: The Truth Seeker

Old October 23rd, 2008 #28
Greg Gerdes
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Greg Gerdes

It appears that most, if not all posting on this thread are pretty well informed about this issue. However, I would like to point out an article by JD Cash in case some of you missed it. This article simply enraged me.

If you haven't read this yet, believe me, you need to:

In the matter of Kenneth Michael Trentadue

J.D. Cash / McCurtain Dailey Gazette | April 7, 2004

BTW, sorry for linking to that P.O.S. Alex Jones website, but it has links to all 5 parts of the story. The story is not short, but I guarantee that you will be glad you spent the time to read it.

This is a very good article to have people read who are waking up from their slumber. I find it's about as good as the USS Liberty story.
Old November 2nd, 2009 #29
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Default FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing

We Told You So: FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing

By Pat Shannan

Only Americans with short memories were surprised by the new accusations of the FBI’s ongoing cover-up of the Oklahoma City bombing, as charged by Utah attorney Jesse Trentadue. It actually has been going on since about 2 p.m. on April 19, 1995—following five hours of honest reporting by news people on the scene.

The remarkable change in the official story and the twisting of the facts made it plain that the federal government and the controlled news media had collaborated to deceive us. The initial reports that we have maintained on videotape for the past 14 years reveal an altogether different story than what’s in the history books.

Immediately, the tragedy was thought to be (and reported as) a gas explosion from inside the building as evidenced by the immense amount of rubble blown out into the street and beyond. A worker from the newspaper office across the street later told us of the children’s toys from the Murrah nursery being blown through his windows. However, it took only a few minutes to cast aside the accident theory and realize that a bomb had exploded inside.

Next it was announced that this was not only some kind of terrorist attack but that an unexploded bomb was discovered in the rubble and was being removed by the Oklahoma County bomb squad. Soon there was another.

“The first bomb did go off,” says the OKC reporter. “The second and third explosives, if you can imagine this, were larger than the first. It is just incredible to think that there was that much heavy artillery that was somehow moved into the downtown federal building.”

Indeed it was, but such truth would lead to demands for an investigation that might reveal way too much information (just as the independent investigations later did) and had to be quashed.

These reports, of course, came before the federal government and a compliant national media could combine to massage the data, change the number of explosions to one, change its position to out in the street and change the bomb’s components to non-existent ammonium nitrate fuel oil (ANFO).

Gov. Frank Keating, a former FBI agent and high-ranking BATF official before his 1994 election to the state’s highest office, went on TV to say, “Obviously, whatever did the damage to the Murrah Building was a tremendous, a very sophisticated explosive device.”

“It had to have been done by an explosives expert,” said government officials.

During these news reports in the first few hours, we also saw hundreds of people fleeing down the street away from the Murrah Building when the FBI had announced the necessity of clearing the area because of the danger of the second and third devices being accidentally detonated during removal. Actually, it was a ploy to remove file cabinets and surveillance tapes with fewer witnesses.

By 2 o’clock, newsmen were singing a different tune, because Mayor Ron Norick had just told them that it was “a car bomb loaded with 1,200 pounds of ANFO, and we have confirmed that with the BATF.”

The reported 1,200 pounds would then begin to increase to 2,000, 3,000 and finally 4,800 pounds, by the next day—the amount necessary to meet the area’s damage.

However, this also required that the transporting vehicle be expanded to a “truck” because a car could not have handled the required load.

It was a total fabrication, as future tests and examinations showed no evidence whatsoever of any ANFO in the blast area. ANFO has two distinguishing characteristics following its detonation: lingering nitrate gas and flames.

Neither was present at the Murrah Building following the blasts. The only visible flames were the gasoline fires from the cars in the parking lot, and rescue workers were on the scene immediately without gas masks.

Before the case was three days old, the FBI didn’t want to hear any information that did not pertain to their two designated patsies: Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

County K-9 Deputy Don Browning was on the scene in the early minutes and was soon subjected to intentional disinformation, as later admitted to him by an FBI agent. He was told that “the Middle Easterners seen beating a hasty retreat from the scene in two cars and a yellow pickup truck” was a story made up to “confuse the news media.”

“Problem was, it confused the rest of law enforcement, too,” says Browning. He had also witnessed the FBI agents removing the surveillance cameras and tapes from their mounts. These were the tapes that the FBI denied even existed for more than 14 years before finally surrendering them last month, but only with doctored results.

“I got angry all over again last week,” Browning told AFP, “when they quit lying about the existence of those tapes and produced them.”

Oklahoma rancher Hoppy Heidelberg was on the federal grand jury and saw first-hand the railroading of the two patsies. When he complained and tried to investigate, as a grand juror should, he was kicked out and sent home by Judge David Russell. He was later delivered a surreptitious message telling him that “if I didn’t sue, they would let me live.”

An Oklahoma City police sergeant wasn’t so lucky. He was murdered the following year because he would not relent in his pursuit for truth. Stabbed 13 times and shot through the head, Terry Yeakey’s death in a rural cow pasture was ruled a suicide.

When Yeakey’s body was discovered, 40 uniformed officers combed the area for an hour in a search for the gun, without success. However, when FBI Special Agent in Charge Bob Ricks arrived by helicopter, it took him less than five minutes to “discover” a revolver in the grass near the body.

The official OKC bombing story has never been anything but a cover-up, and the FBI has been the chief architect of the cover-up from the beginning.

Pat Shannan is a contributing editor to American Free Press.
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Old November 2nd, 2009 #30
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Thanks for posting this.

We Told You So: FBI Hides Truth About OKC Bombing
Orly? Kind of like the way they lost the front door of the Branch Davidian home in Waco because it showed incoming ZOG rounds?
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Old November 2nd, 2009 #31
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Default Fbi releases ‘edited’ okc tapes

Long-awaited tapes show mayhem, but key portions of videotapes—just before bombing—are blank

By Pat Shannan

When the FBI released long-secret security tapes showing the chaos immediately after the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue was elated. His excitement subsided in one day, however, when he realized that the doctored finished product was not that for which he had been waiting for more than a decade.

This is only the latest chapter of a government coverup that began at 9:03 a.m. on April 19, 1995. Trentadue said he has received about 30 security tapes, including some images that were used as evidence at Timothy McVeigh’s trial. McVeigh was convicted on federal murder and conspiracy charges and executed in 2001, even though private investigations showed that the Murrah Building was blown up from the inside and no ammonium nitrate fuel oil, which McVeigh was alleged to have used, was found at the scene.

FBI agents did not report finding any security tapes from the Murrah Building itself. However, in 2005, Oklahoma County K-9 Deputy Don Browning told this reporter and others that he watched as the FBI dismantled security cameras and removed the tapes at the Murrah Building only an hour after the blasts. “The tapes are blank in the minutes before the blast and appear to have been edited,” Trentadue said. He retrieved the tapes through a Freedomof Information Act (FOIA) request that the FBI had been fighting for years.

“The real story is what’s missing,” he said. The tapes turned over by the FBI, came from security cameras various companies had mounted outside office buildings near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. They are blank at points before 9:02 a.m., during the crucial seconds prior to the explosions. “The more important thing they show is what they don’t show,” Trentadue said. “These cameras would have shown the various roads and approaches to the Murrah Building.

“Four cameras in four different locations going blank at basically the same time on the morning of April 19, 1995? There ain’t no such thing as a coincidence,” Trentadue said. He said government officials claim the security cameras did not record the minutes before the bombing because “they had run out of tape” or “the tape was being replaced.

“The interesting thing is they spring back on after 9:02,” he said. “The absence of footage from these crucial time intervals is evidence that there is something there that the FBI doesn’t want anybody to see.”

The soundless recordings show people rushing from nearby buildings after the bomb went off. Some show people fleeing through corridors cluttered with debris. None shows the actual explosion. Trentadue began his own inquiry into the bombing after his brother Kenneth died at the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center in August 1995, after being picked up on a parole violation. Kenneth was never a bombing suspect, but Jesse Trentadue alleges guards mistook his brother for one (perhaps John Doe #2) and beat him to death during an interrogation. The official cause of Kenneth Trentadue’s death is listed as suicide, but his body had 41 wounds and bruises, that could have come only from a beating.

A judge in 2001 awarded Kenneth Trentadue’s family $1.1 million for extreme emotional distress in the government’s handling of his death.

The FBI in the past refused to release the security camera recordings, leading Trentadue and others to contend the government was hiding the evidence that would prove that others were involved in the attack.

“It’s taken a lawsuit and years to get the tapes,” Trentadue said. Trentadue said he is seeking more tapes along with a variety of bombing-related documents from the FBI and the CIA. His FOIA request for 26 CIA documents was rejected in June. A letter from the National Geospatial- Intelligence Agency, which reviewed the documents, said their release “could cause grave damage to our national security.”
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Old November 2nd, 2009 #32
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Whatever you think of the skunk, he's certain that Israel planned and carried out the OKC bombing.

"One of the Mossad's American arms, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), was concerned about the growth of Patriot movements such as Militias, so an attack was staged using a Timothy McVeigh patsy, who was out of Elohim City (Jewish-sponsored terror Mecca).

The real brains behind the OKC bombing were Andreas Strassmeir and Daniel Spiegelman, who were/are both Jewish.

The Zionists destroyed the Militia movement's credibility, and brought the FBI down on them. "

Hunter S. Thompson, "Big dark, coming soon"
Old November 2nd, 2009 #33
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Someone else who has extensively covered this and many of things that are mind boggling. The jews are a busy bunch.
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Old November 11th, 2009 #34
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The Kikes/Mo$$ad were ultimately behind all of these false flag operation!

A curse be on IsraHELL!
Old May 27th, 2010 #35
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Default "The heir to all of 'my friend' J.D. Cash's work"

Scott Horton [Left-liberal internet radio] Interviews Roger Charles

Hear the interviewer say:

"[Roger Charles,] the heir to the journalism of 'The Great' J.D. Cash"

"Richard Guthrie* was a disturbed, racist, a nasty piece of work."

"McVeigh was a neo-Nazi," something no one close to McVeigh ever asserted.

July 24, 2009

Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version
here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

Roger Charles
, a freelance journalist and investigator, discusses J.D. Cash’s pursuit of the truth in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, evidence that disproves Laurie Mylroie’s Saddam Hussein/imposter-Ramzi Yousef theory, the FBI’s numerous informants in Elohim City, the DOJ’s attempt to hide any mention of suspects other than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols and the possible involvement of German national Andreas Strassmeir as an agent provocateur.

MP3 here
. (42:12)

Roger Charles was a career Marine Corps officer and
has worked as an investigative reporter for major media organisations and news programs such as as the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, the New Yorker, CBS 60 Minutes and Frontline.
*June 05, 2006

Richard Guthrie's Suicide

New Details Of 'Aryan' Bank Robber And OKBOMB Suspect's Death In Prison

By J.M. Berger

Richard Guthrie was a bank robber with ties to U.S. white supremacist movements. He and other members of his bank robbery gang, the Aryan Republican Army, have long been suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing. He died in prison as the result of an alleged suicide.

For more documents and a fuller description of the story of Richard Guthrie, and another alleged prison suicide with striking similarities, see The Trentadue Files on INTELWIRE.

INTELWIRE previously released more than 100 pages of files detailing the ATF's investigation of Guthrie. Some of the documents here reference Guthrie's suspected ties to the Oklahoma bombing. Now, for the first time, INTELWIRE is releasing the official record of Guthrie's death for journalists, researchers and the general public.

The new documents were obtained from the U.S. Marshals Service via the Freedom of Information Act. They include the complete autopsy record, as well as documents relating to the investigation of Guthrie's death by local police and prison officials, and U.S. Marshals Service custody records.

Source: INTELWIRE FOIA Requests (Donate)

Richard Guthrie Autopsy and Death Records

Findings reported appear consistent with suicide. Interestingly, neither the autopsy nor the arrest records make reference to Guthrie having a tattoo -- an alleged distinguishing characteristic that many investigators have cited in attempting to prove Guthrie was the never-apprehended OKC suspect known as "John Doe 2."

Richard Guthrie Prison Records, Suicide Details

Among many interesting items in the prison records, handwritten notes indicate Guthrie left two suicide notes and had threatened to attempt an escape shortly before his death. The testimony of the prison's guards, again, appears consistent with suicide.

Richard Guthrie Custody Records, (USMS)

The formal record of Guthrie's term of custody with the U.S. Marshals, which ended in his death.

Letter to Guthrie from L.A. Times Reporter

As previously reported, Guthrie had contemplated telling his story to the press shortly before his death. This letter from Judy Pasternak of the L.A. Times was found in his cell.

Guthrie Spotted By Marshal In 1993

Perhaps the most significant of the documents retrieved in this FOIA request from the perspective of possible connections with the Oklahoma City bombing. A suspect believed to be Guthrie was spotted in 1993 by a U.S. Marshal in Noel, Mo., who said the suspect was attempting to "recruit young boys" into "the Brotherhood." It has never been conclusively determined whether Guthrie had a formal affiliation with an organized white supremacist group. The "Brotherhood" here may refer to the Aryan Brotherhood, a prison gang affiliated with the Aryan Nations.


ATF Investigative Files: Richard Guthrie

Posted by J.M. Berger | Permalink

Last edited by -JC; May 27th, 2010 at 10:49 AM.
Old May 27th, 2010 #36
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Default Scott Horton interview with death row inmate-associate of McVeigh

Scott Horton, again, not-the-sharpest-interviewer, who can't quite articulate what he believes happened at the Murrah Building other than "I believe the J.D. Cash version."

Col. Charles previously explained "monitoring" as a counter-espionage tactic, monitored Cash, ended-up with Cash's materials, and has yet to publish a book. And, of course, Charles apparently always "sold" his "journalism" to the mainstream media. Was Charles doing the monitoring?

Last edited by -JC; May 27th, 2010 at 10:50 AM.
Old May 27th, 2010 #37
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"The '9-11' of the 1990's"

FBI caught in OKC Bombing Cover up- Breaking news

Submitted by DaleinAdaOklahoma on Sun, 09/27/2009 - 20:31

OKLAHOMA CITY – Long-secret security tapes showing the chaos immediately after the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building are blank in the minutes before the blast and appear to have been edited, an attorney who obtained the recordings said Sunday.

"The real story is what's missing," said Jesse Trentadue, a Salt Lake City attorney who obtained the recordings through the federal Freedom of Information Act as part of an unofficial inquiry he is conducting into the April 19, 1995, bombing that killed 168 people and injured hundreds more.
Trentadue gave copies of the tapes to The Oklahoman newspaper, which posted them online and provided copies to The Associated Press.

The tapes turned over by the FBI came from security cameras various companies had mounted outside office buildings near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. They are blank at points before 9:02 a.m., when a truck bomb carrying a 4,000 pound fertilizer-and-fuel-oil bomb detonated in front of the building, Trentadue said.

"Four cameras in four different locations going blank at basically the same time on the morning of April 19, 1995. There ain't no such thing as a coincidence," Trentadue said.

He said government officials claim the security cameras did not record the minutes before the bombing because "they had run out of tape" or "the tape was being replaced."

"The interesting thing is they spring back on after 9:02," he said. "The absence of footage from these crucial time intervals is evidence that there is something there that the FBI doesn't want anybody to see."

Old May 27th, 2010 #38
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Default Considering how quick Gordon Kahl was forgotten, this ought to stay alive...

November 17, 2005

New documents offer details of the FBI's secret Oklahoma City Bombing investigation

By J.M. Berger

Click here for the full documents and an index of their contents.


Nichols Alleges FBI Role in OKC Bombing


The full collection of Trentadue documents can be found here. This 100-page PDF contains unredacted versions of some of the documents below as well as previously unreleased documents.


The FBI has released two addtional documents, which can be viewed by clicking here.

Original documents obtained by INTELWIRE cast additional light on individuals and groups mentioned in the Trentadue documents. Click here for documents related to Andreas Strassmeier and other OKC figures involved in a Texas militia group. Click here for documents related to Aryan Republican Army and Richard Guthrie.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/J/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.jpg[/IMG]Several newly revealed FBI documents provide the most dramatic evidence to date that the Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by a conspiracy involving more people than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

Attorney Jesse Trentadue has disclosed more than 50 pages of FBI internal documents, which are at the center of a court battle over the FBI's obligation to disclose information about the Oklahoma City bombing investigation. All currently available documents are now available to journalists and the public on this site.

The documents have been credibly authenticated during the course of Trentadue's lawsuit. Some of the documents were provided to Trentadue in redacted form by an undisclosed source. The lawsuit aims, in part, to obtain the unredacted versions of this documents.

Trentadue, a Salt Lake City attorney, became involved in the lawsuit after the death of his brother, Kenneth Trentadue, in federal custody on Aug. 21, 1995. Kenneth Trentadue's death was initially declared a suicide by prison officials, but the family discovered signs of numerous injuries when preparing him for burial. The family was awarded more than $1 million after winning a wrongful death suit against the government.

Jesse Trentadue's lawsuit over the FBI's disclosure stems from a belief that his brother was killed because of his resemblance to Richard Lee Guthrie, a white supremacist and bank robber who has been credibly linked to the Oklahoma City bombing by numerous reports, including those from the Associated Press, J.D. Cash of the McCurtain Gazette and
In Bad Company In Bad Company
, a 2001 book by criminology professor Mark S. Hamm.

Guthrie was later apprehended by authorities. Just days before he was scheduled to testify against one of his accomplices in the bank robbery gang, Guthrie was found dead of a purported suicide in his cell. His alleged means of suicide was hanging, the same cause of death originally cited by prison officials for Kenneth Trentadue.

Trentadue has presented the documents linked below as part of an effort under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to force the FBI to disclose its internal files on the Oklahoma City bombing, including unredacted versions of some of the cited documents. The FBI is notoriously unwilling to provide information about the Oklahoma City bombing in particular, and is also known for being generally unresponsive to FOIA requests. Thousands of pages of documents relevant to the OKC investigation were also improperly withheld by the Justice Department until after the conviction of Timothy McVeigh, whose attorneys had requested the documents in discovery.

In the course of Trentadue's lawsuit, the FBI has denied the existence of some documents (including those linked below), but the agency was forced to withdraw that claim after Trentadue presented copies of the documents in court as proof of their existence. Trentadue has not disclosed how he obtained the documents, but their authenticity is no longer in dispute.

The FBI has subsequently attempted other legal strategies to avoid disclosure, in full or in part, and the case is ongoing. For more information on Jesse Trentadue and the lawsuit, click on the following links to recent news articles:

Attorney Offers Document On OKC Warning
Documents May Prompt Congressional Probe
Jesse Trentadue's Long Battle For Proof
Terror, Lies and Memos
Testimony: ATF warned before OKC (Alt. link)
FBI Files Sealed Documents in OKC Suit

The documents are indexed in detail below, with links to facsimiles which were provided to INTELWIRE by Jesse Trentadue. The documents reveal that the FBI investigated links between the Oklahoma City bombing and white supremacists (both individuals and groups). The documents also flatly contradict various claims made by the FBI in the years since the bombing.

The Trentadue Documents

The following documents can be viewed by clicking the links below, and they can also be navigated in order from the first page.

With all of these documents, the important point to remember is that the FBI has fought against disclosing them, despite various legal obligations to do so, including as part of discovery in the federal trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. The author of this Web site does not necessarily stipulate that every lead reported within the documents is provably true, but many of them are highly credible and all of them are worthy of further journalistic investigation.

The documents were filed as exhibits in Jesse Trentadue's FOIA lawsuit against the FBI and have been credibly authenticated during the course of those proceedings. They were provided to INTELWIRE by Trentadue. The dates provided usually reflect the date the document was created, but in some cases may reflect the date the document was received and filed by FBI headquarters.

Some documents contain signficant redactions. The documents were provided to Trentadue in redacted form by an undisclosed source. One document has additional redactions added by INTELWIRE out of privacy concerns. The specific redaction is noted in the index below, and an unredacted version is available for mainstream journalists interested in pursuing this story.


White supremacists planned to bomb U.S. targets
Unnamed suspect may have assisted McVeigh

This redacted document is connected to the OKBOMB investigation (the FBI's code name for the Oklahoma City bombing). The teletype discusses a report from an undisclosed individual regarding Elohim City, a white separatist compound in Vian, OK. Court records confirm that McVeigh telephoned the complex shortly before the OKC bombing, and numerous reports have suggested links between McVeigh and Nichols, Elohim City and the Aryan Republican Army, a bank robbery gang whose members were white separatists who stated that the proceeds of their robberies would be used to fund terrorist attacks on the U.S. government.

On page two of the document, an unidentified informant (name redacted) is quoted as saying that unidentified individuals at Elohim City have explosive devices which they intend to use on various targets around the U.S. Meetings on such plans are described, but the names of the participants have been redacted.

On page three of the document, the writer states that "[redacted name] also indicated that [redacted name] may have assisted McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing."


McVeigh phone call to Elohim City, 4/17/1995
Suspect cited for relationship to McVeigh
4/17 call was to seek additional conspirators

This document dealing with BOMBROB, the bank robbery investigation involving Richard Guthrie, has been significantly redacted. However, it states that "Information has been received through the Southern Poverty Law Center that one [name redacted], aka [name redacted], [redacted] telephone call from Timothy McVeigh, on or about 4/17/1995, two days prior to the OKBOMB attack, when [name redacted], per a source at the SPLC, was in the white supremacist compound at [redacted], OK. [name redacted] allegedly has a lengthy relationship with Timothy McVeigh, one of the two indicted OKBOMB defendants. The source of the SPLC advised that [name redacted] is currently residing with [name redacted] in [redacted], N.C., and plans to leave the U.S. via Mexico in the near future."

"Prior OKBOMB investigation determined that McVeigh had placed a telephone call to Elohim City on 4/5/1995, a day that he was believed to have been attempting to recruit a second conspirator to assist in the OKBOMB attack (emphasis added by INTELWIRE)."


McVeigh phone calls detailed
BOMBROB suspects summoned by phone from Phila.

On the second page of this teletype from FBI headquarters to the Philadelphia office of the FBI (involved in the BOMBROB investigation), the following passage appears:

"Information has been developed that [names redacted] were at the home of [name redacted] Elohim City, Oklahoma, on 4/5/1995 when OKBOMB subject, Timothy McVeigh, placed a telephone call from [redacted] residence to [redacted] residence in Philadelphia division. BOMBOB subjects [names redacted] left [redacted] residence on 4/16/1995 en route to Pittsburgh (sic), Kansas, where they joined [name redacted] and Guthrie."

Some of the Aryan Republican Army bank robbery suspects lived in Philadelphia. The ARA maintained a safe house in Pittsburg, Kansas.


SPLC informant information discussed
McVeigh meeting with unnamed suspect in 1993

As has been reported elsewhere, the Southern Poverty Law Center (an independent organization that monitors hate group activity in the U.S.) maintained an informant in Elohim City. The reports of this informant have become the center of much ensuing controversy regarding the OKC investigation. This OKBOMB document summarizes information obtained through this avenue.

The document states: "With regard to [redacted] wherein Timothy McVeigh met [redacted] being in November 1993, the information was actually that it was approximately 18 months before the bombing." The rest of the report appears to represent speculation on the part of the informant, but certain sections are so heavily redacted that it is impossible to know for sure.


Redacted information on suspect links

This OKBOMB case teletype also discusses information obtained from the SPLC. The document is OKBOMB related and refers to relationships between individuals whose names have been redacted.


Heavily redacted
McVeigh 4/17 call to suspect identified
Suspect reported to plan flight from country

This heavily redacted OKBOMB document contains extensive information on individuals whose names have been excised. According to the teletype, the FBI in Oklahoma "has received information [redacted name] may be an associate of Timothy McVeigh. (According to the SPLC informant,) "McVeigh attempted to telephonically contact [redacted] on or about April 17, 1995, while [name redacted] was residing in Elohim City."

Massive portions of the page that follows are redacted but appear to contain reports from numerous confidential witnesses (CW) relating to the above claim. On the subsequent page, an informant reports "[redacted passage] because things were 'too hot out there.' CW understood that [redacted] was referring to the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building."


Relationships to McVeigh discussed
McVeigh 4/17 call again discussed
Elohim City reaction to McVeigh arrest

Another OKBOMB case document referencing information from the SPLC informant. According to the document, "In November 1993, [redacted] met Timothy McVeigh [long passage redacted] is described as a white male, DOB (date of birth) [redacted] POB (place of birth) [redacted]. He is a [redacted] who [redacted] with help from [redacted] somewhere in [redacted] and [redacted]. Allegedly, McVeigh and [redacted] became associates because of their common background in [redacted].

"[redacted] was [redacted] at Elohim City, Oklahoma. On 4/17/95, McVeigh called Elohim City and spoke with a female who answered the phone. He asked to speak to [redacted].

"Sources have told [redacted] that [redacted] Elohim City anywhere from two days before the Oklahoma City bombing to two weeks before the bombing. [redacted] latest information is that [redacted] of Elohim City, saw McVeigh being led out of the courthouse on television and at that time, [redacted] was told to [redacted]."

Virtually all of the remaining document is redacted, except for a notation that the information may be valuable to the FBI's legat (legal attache) in London, who was investigating the background of an individual whose name has been redacted.


Andreas Strassmeir likely subject of document
Documents seized by OK police, contents redacted

Although this document has been heavily redacted, one can reasonably speculate that it deals with German national Andreas Strassmeir, an Elohim City resident who has been linked to the BOMBROB suspects and also to the Oklahoma City investigation. Strassmeir was the son of a high-ranking German government official, according to British newspaper The Guardian. Strassmeir reportedly met McVeigh at a gun show in 1993.

The teletype says that [name redacted] may be an associate of Timothy McVeigh," and reiterates several phrases from the teletype of 1/20/96, suggesting both documents may primarily concern Strassmeir (who reportedly fled the country in 1996).

Even more importantly in terms of furthering this investigation, the teletype states that it provided to the FBI several documents received from confidential sources regarding Elohim City. "Among these documents were documents [redacted] relating to [redacted] Some documents have the heading [redacted]. One document appears to be a [redacted] dated [redacted]. One document [redacted] is entitled [redacted]. This document certifies that [redacted]. The course included instruction in [redacted]."

The remainder of the document is heavily redacted, often inexplicably so, such as the removal of apparent references to Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, known subjects in the investigation whose identities hardly need to be concealed.


Informant gave ATF prior warning of attacks
Evidence of ATF warnings intentionally suppressed

The following sections of court transcripts record a sealed hearing concerning ATF informant Carol Howe, a resident of Elohim City at the time of the bombing. This material was suppressed, apparently with the explicit purpose of excluding it from consideration in the trial of Timothy McVeigh.

The transcript indicates that Ms. Howe had previously been an informant for the ATF and was re-activated after the Oklahoma City bombing. Ms. Howe's ATF handler was questioned during the hearing. The explosive portion of the transcript (click here) states that Ms. Howe informed the ATF -- prior to the Oklahoma City bombing -- that Andy Strassmeir had threatened to bomb U.S. federal buildings, and that Howe accompanied Elohim City residents on a trip to Oklahoma City of unclear intent.

In the presiding judge's own words, "We have got evidence that the ATF took a trip with somebody who said that buildings were going to be blown up in Oklahoma City before it was blown up, or something of that nature."


Informant reports OKC suspicions regarding alleged white supremacist

This report details an informant's conversation with Dave Hollaway, a Special Forces veteran with alleged ties to white supremacist groups. The information in this report is unsubstantiated and should not be construed as evidence of guilt, but the document is clearly relevant to the OKBOMB investigation and is included here as such.

According to the document, Hollaway was associated with CAUSE, a white supremacist foundation and had acted as an intermediary on occasion between the federal government and militant white supremacist groups. According to the informant, Hollaway presented himself as a member of such groups.
The document states that Hollaway claimed to have spoken with Timothy McVeigh two days before the Oklahoma City bombing. Hollaway critiqued the placement of the truck bomb used in the attack and provided details on the construction of such bombs, according to the document.


FBI inteviews alleged white supremacist about alleged McVeigh call

In this record of an FBI interview with Hollaway, Hollaway appears to confirm the general points raised in the preceding document, including his affiliation with the CAUSE foundation. Hollaway said he received a call on April 18, 1995, from an unidentified caller which had threatening overtones in the context of the following day's events. He claimed that he informed the FBI of the call via a tip hotline on April 20, 1995, and that FBI agents subsequently followed up with him by phone.

INTELWIRE has removed some personally identifying information about Hollaway from the original form due to privacy considerations. Mainstream media outlets seeking more information may contact INTELWIRE for the unredacted page.

For more information about this material, its sources and context, contact J.M. Berger at [email protected][email protected].
Old May 27th, 2010 #39
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Default Margaret Roberts ( & Alex Jones..."]David [I][COLOR=#1111cc]Hammer[/COLO"]YouTube- David Hammer Talks About McVeigh and Government Prior Knowledge of OKC Bombing on Alex Jones Tv 5/5[/
11 min - May 14, 2010

1. Margaret Roberts Reports David Hammer is Under Lock-Down on Alex ...
On May 18, Roberts contacted Alex Jones and said death row inmate Hammer was locked down after his interview that aired on the Alex Jones Show. ... - Cached
Old May 27th, 2010 #40
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Default Hammer publicist's press release...


Death Row Inmate Unlocks Oklahoma City Bombing Secrets,
Blows Open Cold Case With Exclusive Timothy McVeigh Interviews

As of the Oklahoma City Bombing’s 15th anniversary on April 19, 2010, history records the case as solved and closed. Timothy McVeigh, lone-wolf mastermind, was executed in 2001. Terry Nichols, his only known accomplice, is behind bars for life. But now this: McVeigh reportedly made a shocking death row confession – that he was an undercover federal agent in a sting operation targeting right-wing extremists. Incredible? It might seem so at first. But just as incredible is the identity of the man who turned up the evidence that blows this case wide open: It’s David Paul Hammer – another death row inmate.

Federal Death Row: Terre Haute, Indiana – Hammer is a criminal legend, in prison since age 19 except for two escapes; sentenced to death for killing a cellmate in 1996. The death penalty was the twist of fate that gave Hammer exclusive access to McVeigh and his story on Federal Death Row.

Deadly Secrets: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing details McVeigh’s account of the crime as told exclusively to Hammer. McVeigh said he had multiple accomplices, who were never brought to justice. He named names. Hammer started digging.

Aided by a trusted circle of friends on the outside, he discovered hidden and discarded clues, from secret FBI investigative teletypes to explosives that may be linked to the bombing and even secret crime-scene surveillance tapes. It all points to a conspiracy larger than McVeigh and Nichols, and consistent with the one McVeigh outlined for Hammer.

How could so much evidence fall through the cracks? Hammer charges that federal government insiders knew the bombing was coming through McVeigh and other informants, but did not stop it. Afterwards, the government players had to hide their guilty knowledge, and the cover-up continues to this day.

“We have opened up the deepest, darkest cold case of all time,” Hammer says.

Prize-winning investigative reporter Margaret Roberts wrote the book’s foreword. She calls McVeigh’s account “compelling,” and says Hammer’s story “deserves careful consideration.” Hammer’s challenge to readers: Don’t buy the government spin that this case is closed. Follow the clues. Find out the truth.

Publisher contacts
Book orders:
Email media inquiries to: [email protected]. Review copies: Phone Authorhouse at 888 280 7715 or email: [email protected]. ###


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