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Old August 16th, 2008 #981
Slamin2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ced smythe View Post
BTW, starting your response with "and" denotes agreement, which could be construed as a bout of honesty. This has earned you a bit of respect from me.
Which means as much to me as the dog shit in my front lawn.
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Old August 17th, 2008 #982
Greg Gerdes
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Let me remind everyone what the title of this thread is:

ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS OF TREBLINKA

Which has now morphed into:

ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS OF TREBLINKA AND SOBIBOR

So, with that in mind, let's look again at what we are supposed to be discussing:

(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

WARSAW (Reuters)- Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims.“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said -“it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding -“The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”

So where are they?

Let's see them plotted on a map.

Can anyone show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor?

Yes

or

No?
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #983
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Quote:
(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims. “We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said - “it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding - “The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”
Let’s take a closer look at this alleged archeological finding at Sobibor. We have 7 alleged “huge mass graves” - 6 measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters and one 70 x 25 x 5 meters. So each of the smaller graves has a volume of 2,500 sq. meters, with a combined total volume of 15,000 sq. meters and the largest of these alleged "huge mass graves" has a volume of 8,750 sq. meters - for a grand total of all 7 graves being - 23,750 sq. meters. This would mean then that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” would comprise 36.84% of the total alleged volume of all graves combined.

So, if the alleged death toll of Sobibor is 250,000 and 36.84% of 250,000 is 92,100, then that means that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” of Sobibor would contain the remains of 92,100 jews. Now, 1% of the alleged mass murder is of course 2,500 and that amount would be only 2.714% of the total number of those alleged to be buried in said “huge mass grave.” Which begs the questions: Just how hard would it be to identify and quantify only 2.714% of the alleged contents of a single “huge mass grave” that allegedly contains the “charred human remains and remains in a state of decay” of 92,100 people? And why - 7 years after Kola’s press conference - has this not been done yet? What happened to the jews pledge to “confirm scientifically that this camp existed?


So where are they?

Let's see them plotted on a map.

Can anyone show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor?

Yes

or

No?
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #984
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Roberta (post #916):

Quote:
"No photos of Prof. Kola in person doing excavation work have to my knowledge been published. However, I have been informed by the director of the Sobibor Archaeology Project, Mr. Yoram Haimi, that the photos shown under http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/...nia/index.html are related to Prof. Kola’s archaeological investigation in 2001.

While no photographs are required to prove that the mass graves actually exist, the three photographs from the above-mentioned series obviously show substances taken with a core drill out of Sobibor mass graves, which are clearly distinguishable from the light brown soil of Sobibor."
So the greasy jewbitch admits that she's been in contact with fellow greasball haimi. So why then does she not know the results of any analysis of said "substances taken with a core drill out of Sobibor mass graves?"

Roberta:

Quote:
"I am not familiar at this moment with the results of such analysis, which have not been published. However, it seems reasonable to assume that if such analysis was done – which is probably the case – , the results confirmed my assumptions mentioned in answer B.3 above."
Let's see the results of the analysis and lets see the photos of the other core samples.

How many core samples were taken?


Later in the same post:

E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
9 - Show us proof that the "huge ash mountain" of Sobibor is actually comprised of human ash.

Roberta:

Quote:
"The aspect of the substance that the mound consists of, which has a light gray coloration different from the light-brown color of the soil at Sobibor (see photos mentioned in answer B.3 above) suggests the accuracy of captions describing this mound as a mound consisting of or containing human ashes."
Notice how the lying jewbitch is trying to imply that there have been core samples taken from the mound. Let's see the photos of these alleged core samples and lets see the results of the analysis of the alleged samples.

Roberta:

Quote:
"...So does the associated documentary and eyewitness evidence proving that Sobibor was an extermination camp and that the bodies of the victims were disposed of by burning them, which is mentioned in my post # 777 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=777 ."
What burnt bodies? Where?

Robeta:

Quote:
"...The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence independent of each other, alone or together with the absence of any evidence to the contrary, is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash."
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Thank you Roberta.

Have I ever told you that you're priceless?
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #985
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More from Roberta's post #916:

F.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
10 - Show us were the huge pit is that this "mountain of human ash" was dug out of.

Roberta:

Quote:
"The human ashes that the mound at Sobibor is comprised of may have been dug out of one of more of the pits discovered by Prof. Kola in 2001. They were probably brought to the surface by postwar robbery digging, which would mean it is impossible to determine which of the grave pits contained these specific ashes."
So Kola discovered pits?

Let's see them.

Show us the pits that the alleged "human ash" was dug out of.

Let's see the photos of the construction of the "huge ash mountain."
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #986
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Just curious, in this entire thread, has Gerdes provided any evidence? Evidence that is, not be be confused with rhetoric, demands or interrogatories.
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Old August 18th, 2008 #987
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More from Roberta's post #916:


"According to my last conversation with Yoram Haimi, this professional archaeologist considers it below his level to publish evidence just in order to address the claims of a hopeless crackpot. Archaeological evidence is published for the purpose of enhancing scientific and historical knowledge and for everyone’s benefit. When the results of the current archaeological investigations are published in a scientific magazine, they will include much more than just the evidence necessary to meet the NAFCASH challenge requirements. And I will see to it that Mr. Gerdes gets a free copy of the scientific magazine in which this evidence shall be published."

Let's see proof of the "charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay" allegedly found at Sobibor. After all, it would "enhanc scientific and historical knowledge and for everyone’s benefit."
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #988
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Some keyboard claptrap from the retarded jewbitch's post #953:

Roberta:

Quote:
"Under number 3 I am saying that the samples were probably analyzed in order to confirm that they contain what their aspect suggests. I’m not categorically stating that such analysis, if done, confirmed that these samples contain human remains (though this was what the analysis probably did). Yep, until the results of Prof. Kola’s 2001 investigation are published, one can only presume that he did the analyses one would expect a competent professional archaeologist to do. I just consider it reasonable to assume that such confirmation was obtained, because

a) the aspect of the samples suggests the presence of human remains,
b) Prof. Kola is known to have identified mass graves at Sobibor and these samples are from his investigation and
c) a competent professional archaeologist – which previous work by Prof. Kola has shown him to be – can be expected so have such samples analyzed."


Were the samples analyzed or not?

If not, why?

If yes, let's see the results.
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #989
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Some keyboard claptrap from the retarded jewbitch's post #954:

Roberta:

"I might add that I don’t know what the members of the Sobibor Archaeology Project say about the composition of these samples. In my last phone conversation with Yoram Haimi, I forgot to ask this question. I shall ask it next time we speak."


So what was the greasy jews answer?
 
Old August 18th, 2008 #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post
Some keyboard claptrap from the retarded jewbitch's post #954:

Roberta:

"I might add that I don’t know what the members of the Sobibor Archaeology Project say about the composition of these samples. In my last phone conversation with Yoram Haimi, I forgot to ask this question. I shall ask it next time we speak."


So what was the greasy jews answer?
You do know Roberto is on vacation right?
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Old August 19th, 2008 #991
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Slamin - see post # 393
 
Old August 19th, 2008 #992
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(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

WARSAW (Reuters)- Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims.“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said -“it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding -“The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”


Let's see one single photo of an "excavation" at Sobibor.


EXCAVATION


1 - The act or process of excavating.

2 - A hole formed by excavating.

3 - site of digging; digging.



Quote:
In archaeology, the exposure, recording, and recovery of buried material remains. The techniques employed vary by the type of site, but all forms of archaeological excavation require great skill and careful preparation. The process begins with site location, by means of aerial photography, remote sensing, or, commonly, accidental discovery by construction crews. This step is followed by surveying and mapping, site sampling, and developing an excavation plan. The design and execution of an excavation frequently require an interdisciplinary team of experts. The actual digging consists of the removal of surplus dirt and the painstaking examination, through observation, sifting, and other means, of remaining soil, artifacts, and context. Common dig tools include the trowel, penknife, and brush. The excavation phase is followed by artifact classification, analysis, dating, and the publication of results.


Quote:
One of the principal means by which archaeological data is captured and recorded, excavation involves the systematic exposure of deposits that are then taken apart. There are a number of different techniques of excavation, such as open area excavation, , quadrant excavation, and Wheeler system, each having its own strengths and weaknesses. Selecting a method that suits the kind of site under investigation and the questions being asked is an important preliminary to any excavation project. A widely held principle, however, is that excavation should proceed by removing the layers and deposits within the site in the reverse order to which they were laid down in the first place. The different methods also carry with them implications for the way things are recorded, although plans, sections, photographs, notebooks, finds indexes, context records, and sample logs will be found in almost all of them. Not all studies can be done on site (desirable though that is), and samples of material and finds have to be cross-referenced to the deposits from which they came so that they can be examined later in the laboratory. New technology such as digital recording systems is playing an increasing role on fieldwork projects, and frees the archaeologists to spend more time interpreting what they are finding as they go along.
 
Old August 19th, 2008 #993
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Although totally fraudulent, this is a very informative site:

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/historia/index.htm


This is from page two:

2. The history of research

Quote:
14th October 1943 was the day of the great revolt of Sobibór prisoners. It was the only successful revolt. As a result, a considerable group of prisoners gained freedom. Simultaneously, it was the time when the Nazi tormentors, wishing to discharge responsibility for their dreadful atrocities, began to cover up any tracks. In order to do it, the Nazi brought a group of about 100 prisoners from Treblinka, who removed all traces of the existence of the camp. Having accomplished the task, the prisoners suffered a similar fate as the victims of Sobibór. The act of obliteration was so effective, that it was only after 50 years that archeological exploratory drilling research pinpointed the location of mass graves and a part of camp infrastructure.

In the mid-60s, the camp in Sobibór was commemorated with a burial mound containing ashes of the murdered and a monument designed by Mieczysław Walter (Gacka-Grzesikiewicz 1983, p.51). In 1983 the territory of the former camp was transferred to the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum in Włodawa, which has been responsible for this memorial site ever since. In 1993, on the 50th anniversary of the revolt in the camp, solemn celebrations were held, which provided the opportunity to refresh the camp in the memory of Polish and international public opinion. At the end of 90s, the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum carried out probing excavation research in order to pinpoint the location of mass graves of the Jews murdered here. The research was probably a failure since no documentation related to the subject can be found either in the archives of the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum, or the Lublin Province Office for the Preservation of Monuments, branch office in Chełm.

In 2000-2001 the proper archeological research was initiated by professor Andrzej Kola's team from the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń, commissioned by the Council for Protection of Memory of the Battle and Martyrdom in Warsaw (Kola 2000, 2001). The result of the work was pinpointing the location of 7 sites of mass cremation burials, discovery of the remnants of 5 buildings in the area of camp III (marked A-E); A being the alleged blacksmith's building, B of unknown function but with a large amount of personal belongings of the murdered; object C is the camp well; object D is of unknown function; object E is the alleged remnants of the barracks with gas chambers. Besides purely archeological research, professor Kola's team conducted surface penetration of the territory of the camp, discovering numerous personal belongings of the victims and trees with remnants of barbed wire believed to have been the remaining part of the camp fence (Kola 2001, p.122). The findings resulted in pinpointing the location of the whole of western and part of northern and southern boundaries. Additionally, information provided by foresters of the Sobibór Forestry Commission, led to discovery of many trees located east of the railway line (fig. 1).
And this is from page 3:

3. Objectives of research

Quote:
The scope of research activities planned for 2004 included the following objectives:

to locate the remnants of camp IV, in which the Soviet ammunition was to have been processed for the needs of the German army.

to verify the anomalies discovered with drilling method by professor Kola's team south of the object E, identified as the gas chambers.

to locate the course of the so-called Himmelfahrtstrasse (the Heavenly Avenue) which proved to be the last way of the victims, marching towards the gas chambers.

to pinpoint the location of the trees with remnants of barbed wire, which will allow to determine explicitly the territory of the Museum of the Former Extermination Camp in Sobibór as the branch of the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum in Włodawa.

The research activities were financed and filmed by American-British-German team, commissioned by the "Discovery Channel" which is presently preparing a documentary film on the camp in Sobibór, in particular about the results which may be obtained with the use of modern research methods. It is mostly about geophysical methods, which are non-intrusive in character and provide archeologists with numerous relevant pieces of information, on the basis of different kinds of anomalies observed in the ground. Practical testing of the above methods was one of the main objectives of the 2004 research.
Just another fraudulent joke of a site, just like the Sobibor Archaeology site.
 
Old August 19th, 2008 #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post
Slamin - see post # 393
What is this post suppose to tell me?

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=802455&postcount=393


Is it not Krege's duty to publish the study? If there is no published study, why do you promote it as evidence?
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Old August 20th, 2008 #995
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(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

Quote:
WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims.“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said -“it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding -“The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”
Let’s take a closer look at this alleged archeological finding at Sobibor. We have 7 alleged “huge mass graves” - 6 measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters and one 70 x 25 x 5 meters. So each of the smaller graves has a volume of 2,500 sq. meters, with a combined total volume of 15,000 sq. meters and the largest of these alleged "huge mass graves" has a volume of 8,750 sq. meters - for a grand total of all 7 graves being - 23,750 sq. meters. This would mean then that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” would comprise 36.84% of the total alleged volume of all graves combined.

So, if the alleged death toll of Sobibor is 250,000 and 36.84% of 250,000 is 92,100, then that means that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” of Sobibor would contain the remains of 92,100 jews. Now, 1% of the alleged mass murder is of course 2,500 and that amount would be only 2.714% of the total number of those alleged to be buried in said “huge mass grave.” Which begs the questions: Just how hard would it be to identify and quantify only 2.714% of the alleged contents of a single “huge mass grave” that allegedly contains the “charred human remains and remains in a state of decay” of 92,100 people? And why - 7 years after Kola’s press conference - has this not been done yet? What happened to the jews pledge to “confirm scientifically that this camp existed?”

Allegedly, the remains of 92,100 jews in a “huge mass grave” measuring 70 x 25 x 5 meters were located 7 years ago, yet to this day, not an iota of proof has surfaced that confirms that so much as one body has been proven to exist. In fact, not so much as a single tooth has ever been proven to have been found at Sobibor.

Why can't the greasy jews prove the existence of these alleged "huge mass graves?"

Can anyone show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor?

Yes

or

No?
 
Old August 20th, 2008 #996
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Slamin - see post # 393
 
Old August 20th, 2008 #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin2 View Post
What is this post suppose to tell me?

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=802455&postcount=393


Is it not Krege's duty to publish the study? If there is no published study, why do you promote it as evidence?
Actually Science can't be done on such rigid subjects since it has been concluded that Treblinka existed in the same form as described by "witnesses" .People like Kola are making a mistake when they say they are doing science. They aren't doing science, they're trying to find proof for their conclusion and that violates the principals of which science works on thus making the research invalid. Knowing that such a conclusion has been made and there is no other conclusion to be made I don't see Krege's article ever being published by anyone other than Rudolf.

As for the argument - there is no scientific data ; however, that means that whoever is asserting it has to prove it.

Last edited by psychologicalshock; August 20th, 2008 at 01:15 PM.
 
Old August 20th, 2008 #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychologicalshock View Post
As for the argument - there is no scientific data ; however, that means that whoever is asserting it has to prove it.
Then the balls is in Gerdes court, since he is asserting that Krege has somehow proved something with science - correct?

"A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there. "

Or do your standards only flow one way?
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Old August 20th, 2008 #999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin2 View Post
Then the balls is in Gerdes court, since he is asserting that Krege has somehow proved something with science - correct?

"A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there. "

Or do your standards only flow one way?
I think Gerdes can speak for himself.
 
Old August 20th, 2008 #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychologicalshock View Post
I think Gerdes can speak for himself.
No, you can certianly apply your standards fairly.

And Gerdes cannot answer for himself, he's shown an inability to respond to questions.
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