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Old November 2nd, 2005 #1
Rob Roy MacGregor
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Default THE RAPTURE CULT: Religious Zeal And Political Conspiracy

Found this while doing research on the Judenizing of Christainity. Good section on Israel. Also has info on the Jewish "Scofield Reference Bible" that was the final nail in the American Christian's coffin.

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/rapture/
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Old November 2nd, 2005 #2
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Looks like "The Anti-Christ" is the prototype of Orwell's Emmanuel Goldstein.

http://www.reformed-theology.org/htm...e/chapte11.htm
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #3
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Default Pre-trib Rapture is a Placebo

Pre-tribulation rapture is one of the few real beefs I have with Evangelicals. It can destroy initiative among those who are weak-minded or weak in character. This doctrine explains some of the hostility that some Evangelicals show towards White Nationalism. They don't worry about the future of our race because they believe that when the shit hits the fan, they'll be magically lifted out of harm's way. Heck, they'll run up a $20,000 consumer debt and say "Gee, I don't have to pay it back - Jesus will rapture me out of it." My understanding of Scripture is that this event will occur at the Second Coming AND after Armageddon, not before.
 
Old November 30th, 2005 #4
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I rarely speak publicly without refuting the rapture theory to some extent. If you read the bible often and study with a completely open mind I think you will come to the conclusion the rapture is completely misrepresented. The word doesn’t even occur in the bible. The reality is during the second coming Christians will be taken up with everyone else and the world will be completely destroyed. That is of course when you read and accept the bible. There will be no tribulation because we are going through it right now. The rapture theorists have always been 100% wrong and this theory is only about 100 years old.

This is the rapture doctrine in a nutshell.

Christ came to earth to save the Jews only. He was then killed by the Roman soldiers before he was able to succeed (making him out to be a complete failure). He then sets up the church in a desperate attempt (even though he conquered death) to save someone and the gentiles join up. Now he is in heaven waiting until he can attack Satan, even though he exercised earthly authority over Satan. Even though it was clearly prophesied in the OT he would die, he still wasn’t meant to die according to this theory.

Fast forward a couple thousand years.

Israel is attacked by Russia and Britain. God thwarts the attack. Christ returns in the dead of night (when the bible clearly states every eye shall see him) and all of the “Christians” will disappear. Then we will go through 7 years of tribulation in which time Christ strengthens his army to return and fight Satan then reign for 1,000 years (when the bible clearly states he is reigning now). At which time he sets up an earthly kingdom (even though the bible clearly states the kingdom is spiritual and Christians are currently in it). Then at some point all the Jews will convert (against their will) and sit around Christ’s throne in Israel after the temple is rebuilt and Jewish worship law is reinstated. This includes sacrifices ect. Then Satan will rise up and the final battle will take place and Christ will win and we all live happily ever after.

It varies from cult to cult but that is the basic doctrine. They can adapt the doctrine when cornered but that is the common form of it. I can’t imagine anyone believing that mess.

R-Mac if you want the titles and companies that sell cheap books on how to refute the rapture E-mail me. I also know a lot of good online resources and charts on the subject but I would have to get on the other computer to get them.

I may have some booklets on the subject here.

The rapture theory is the most destructive doctrine to ever invade Christianity and it is blasphemous. It denies the works of Christ and makes him out to be a failure.
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Last edited by Sean Martin; November 30th, 2005 at 02:50 AM.
 
Old November 30th, 2005 #5
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Rapture bunnies can be fun to play with, but for the most part, they're just ridiculous. I read most of the Left Behind series when I was a senior in college, and I will admit that I did enjoy them..... as a series of fiction. I just fail to comprehend how anyone can actually take such theories seriously.

On the other hand, most of the rapture bunnies I know are people who I do wish would just disappear off the planet.

And on another note, I'd be willing to bet that if Jesus were real, and if he did actually come back, no one would believe he was actually Jesus. He'd probably end up being laughed at or thrown in a looney bin.
 
Old November 30th, 2005 #6
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So it is safe to say Pixi’s hope is Christianity is real and all of the rapture bunnies will simply disappear? You better get to working on that Armageddon plan.

I don’t know if it is me or what, but most of them have a blank starry eyed glare about them. They like to show their teeth. I am not very spiritual, I take the bible on a scholarly level and how it relates to our lives and society in general. It seems that the pre-millennialists don’t even care about scripture. They just care about Tithing, Jewish custom BTW not condoned in the NT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixi
On the other hand, most of the rapture bunnies I know are people who I do wish would just disappear off the planet.
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Old December 2nd, 2005 #7
Rob Roy MacGregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixi
And on another note, I'd be willing to bet that if Jesus were real, and if he did actually come back, no one would believe he was actually Jesus. He'd probably end up being laughed at or thrown in a looney bin.
Like I've always said, the Kikes would crucify him again.
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Old January 30th, 2007 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorage Activist
Pre-tribulation rapture is one of the few real beefs I have with Evangelicals. It can destroy initiative among those who are weak-minded or weak in character. This doctrine explains some of the hostility that some Evangelicals show towards White Nationalism. They don't worry about the future of our race because they believe that when the shit hits the fan, they'll be magically lifted out of harm's way...
You put it well there, Anchorage. I'm another former rapture bunny. It's just been in the past year or so that I've accepted the fact that the Rapture is the biggest carrot on a stick ever put out to this bunny.

When I learned the story behind Scofield himself, the Scofield Reference Bible, and the Oxford connection, it sickened me at first but I was finally relieved to be out of that thought pattern.
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Old January 31st, 2007 #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldB
You put it well there, Anchorage. I'm another former rapture bunny. It's just been in the past year or so that I've accepted the fact that the Rapture is the biggest carrot on a stick ever put out to this bunny.

When I learned the story behind Scofield himself, the Scofield Reference Bible, and the Oxford connection, it sickened me at first but I was finally relieved to be out of that thought pattern.
It's a very seductive doctrine , like a drug .
 
Old January 31st, 2007 #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldB
You put it well there, Anchorage. I'm another former rapture bunny. It's just been in the past year or so that I've accepted the fact that the Rapture is the biggest carrot on a stick ever put out to this bunny.
Glad you got your head straight and pulled out of that nonsense . Pre-trib rapture is pure escapism - nothing more. It offers salvation without sacrifice, a crown without a cross.

How can anyone in their right mind believe that God would design an "escape plan" that would result in unpiloted planes plunging out of the sky, unmanned trains derailing, undriven gasoline trucks running off the road, crashing and detonating, etc, etc.? That's insane.

Too many Christians worship the Bible instead of God. If it's not in the Bible, they're lost in space, they don't know what to do next. The Bible was meant to be a written spiritual guide to be consulted when in doubt, not another idol to be venerated and worshipped. The Bible is authoritative, but NOT inerrant. It cannot be inerrant because it is recorded in imperfect human syntax.
 
Old January 31st, 2007 #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorage Activist
Glad you got your head straight and pulled out of that nonsense . Pre-trib rapture is pure escapism - nothing more. It offers salvation without sacrifice, a crown without a cross.

How can anyone in their right mind believe that God would design an "escape plan" that would result in unpiloted planes plunging out of the sky, unmanned trains derailing, undriven gasoline trucks running off the road, crashing and detonating, etc, etc.? That's insane.

Too many Christians worship the Bible instead of God. If it's not in the Bible, they're lost in space, they don't know what to do next. The Bible was meant to be a written spiritual guide to be consulted when in doubt, not another idol to be venerated and worshipped. The Bible is authoritative, but NOT inerrant. It cannot be inerrant because it is recorded in imperfect human syntax.
\

Anchorage,

All this brings back memories of a couple of things. First, the song "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" which was one of the first Contemporary Christian songs in the 1970s. Then I thought of that Jack Chick comic about the rapture. On the cover there is a bug-eyed nurse, running out of the hospital maternity unit, obviously after the Rapture has hit. She's screaming, "Doctor! The babies are all missing!"

The list could go on, but I have to catch a bus.
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Old January 31st, 2007 #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldB
Jack Chick comic about the rapture
That should give you a powerful hint about the level of mentality the doctrine is written for .
 
Old February 23rd, 2007 #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itz_molecular View Post
It's a very seductive doctrine , like a drug .
Also appealing to cowards. The dispensationalists cling to the part of their heretical theology where the Christians are supposedly raptured out of this world before the crap really hits the fan. Typical, as they either trash or ignore the saints and martyrs down through history who suffered and died for the Faith.
 
Old April 3rd, 2007 #14
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Unhappy Rapture lie

Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that He upheld the law and the prophets. Ez. 13:20, no one is going to fly away.
 
Old August 15th, 2007 #15
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Default Emmanuel Lacunza =Juan Josafa (Rabbi) Ben-Ezra


The Secret Rapture


Lorraine Day, M.D.

Many Christians believe that Christ's second coming will be in two stages -- first, a secret rapture of the Church at the beginning of a seven year period of tribulation, followed by a visible, triumphant return of Christ to the earth, accompanied by the Church, at the close of the seven year period.

They believe that during this seven year period there will be a great tribulation during which time, God will select and seal 144,000 literal Jews (who are sexually celibate) who will take the Gospel of the Kingdom to the whole world, converting innumerable souls to Christ.

The war of Armageddon, a literal war of nations against literal Israel, which occurs near the end of the seven year period, is brought to a halt by Christ's return with His Church. Then literal Israel accepts the Lord as the Messiah and enters with Him as His covenant people into the 1,000 year (millennial) reign on earth, known as the Kingdom Age.

Christ will rule directly over the earth from the throne of David in Jerusalem, where the typical temple services function again. Those who ultimately reject Christ's rule are eventually judged and destroyed at the end of the Millennium. The new believers will then receive immortality and eternity will begin.


That is the doctrine of the Secret Rapture.

Is this doctrine Biblical?

Which texts support it?

Are there other texts that deny this doctrine?

How long has this doctrine been prevalent in Christianity?

How did it begin, and who was/is the primary promoter of it?



In early 1830, Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish Girl had visions that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist. Edward Irving (1792-1834) her Scottish Presbyterian pastor and forerunner of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, attended prophecy conferences that began in Dublin Ireland in that same year, 1830, at Powerscourt Castle. There he promoted the doctrine of the Secret Rapture.

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a minister of the Church of Ireland, later became a member of the Plymouth Brethren and also promoted a Secret Rapture after attending the same Powerscourt Bible Prophecy meeting in 1830 where he learned of Margaret McDonald's vision. He visited Margaret McDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland, then later visited America several times where his Secret Rapture theology was quite well accepted.

The writings of John Darby greatly influenced Cyrus Scofield (1843-1921) who incorporated this doctrine in the notes of his Scofield Reference Bible, first published by Oxford University Press in 1909. One million copies were printed by 1930, firmly establishing this Futurist interpretation in the Bible schools and denominations of the United States in the 20th Century.


Did this Secret Rapture doctrine really start with Margaret McDonald, John Darby and Cyrus Scofield, or did it originate much earlier?

Historical evidence shows that it originated much earlier.

Before and during the Protestant Reformation, the Reformers embraced the "Historical" interpretation of the Bible, where the antichrist was clearly seen as a SYSTEM of apostasy and persecution rather than a single individual. John spoke of antichrist that "shall come" but he added that "even now are there MANY antichrists." 1 John 2:18

So we know that there are, and/or have been, MANY antichrists, NOT just one, AND that the system of antichrist was operating at the time John was writing, almost 2,000 years ago.

The conclusion of those who studied these prophecies during the Reformation was that there was only one system that fit all the characteristics of the antichrist power: the papacy of the Roman Catholic Church. Its characteristics included the following:

5) It would rule "over many nations, people and tongues." In other words, it would be a universal world governing body (Rev 13:7)

6) It would claim authority over all kings (Rev 17:18)

3) Its leaders would make great and blasphemous claims against God. (Rev 13:1,6)

4) It would claim it had the power to change "times and laws." (Dan 7:25)

5) It would be a "mother" harlot church with apostate daughters coming from her. (Rev 17:5)

6) It would be an apostate church that would make all nations drink of her apostasy. (Rev 14:8)

7) It would persecute the saints of Jesus Christ. (Rev 13:7)

8) It would rule for 1260 years (according to the "day-for-a-year" prophecy concept, adopted by many denominations) following the fall of pagan Rome and then would suffer what would appear to be a "deadly wound." (Rev 11:2,3; Rev 13:3)

9) It would be revived after the deadly wound, and the whole world would wonder at its revival.

It is not surprising that the Catholic Church was so violently opposed to the Bible being available for everyone to read for themselves. To control what they considered a heretical doctrine, the Catholic Church called for a special meeting, known as the Fifth Lateran Council (1512-1517), which FORBADE anyone to publish a book without prior censorship. It also prohibited anyone from preaching on the subject of antichrist! The leaders of the Council and their governing body, the Catholic Church, also attempted to ban or burn all the Bibles, heretical books, and the heretics that owned or preached from them.

One major characteristic identifying the antichrist power was this 1260 days prophecy (interpreted as 1260 prophetic years) of persecution of the "saints", which appeared to be fulfilled in the Catholic Church's persecution of Christians throughout the dark ages, beginning in 538 A.D., after the fall of the pagan Roman empire, and extending to 1798, when the Pope was taken prisoner by Napoleon (considered by some to be the "deadly wound").

In order to divert attention AWAY from the Catholic Church as the antichrist power, a new interpretation would have to be found for this twelve century papal rule of the middle ages.

This was done by rejecting the "Historical" interpretation, and instead accepting the "Futurist" interpretation proposed by a Jesuit doctor of theology, Francisco Ribera (1537-1591). In his book, entitled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, he postulated that the 1260 day prophecy (Rev 12:6) (42 months (Rev 11:2, 13:5), or time, times and half a time (Rev 12:14) - 3 1/2 times) were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, or 1260 actual days, and therefore NONE of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy. It applied to a future period just prior to the Second Coming of Christ, hence it was called "Futurism" or the "Futurist" interpretation.

Manuel De Lacunza (1731-1801), a Jesuit priest from Chile, also advocated futurism in his manuscript entitled La Venida del Mesias en Gloria y Magestad ("The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty"). Writing under the assumed name of Juan Josafa (Rabbi) Ben-Ezra, Lacunza hoped to obscure the fact that he was a Catholic, in order to give his book better acceptance in Protestantism.

To make the prophecy fit its new interpretation, the 70 Weeks prophecy of Dan 9:24-27, beginning in 457 B.C. with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Ezra 7:1-27) had to develop a "gap." Arbitrarily, the 70th week (7 days = 7 years) of Daniel's prophecy is detached from its context and placed at the end of the age, 2000 years later. This "week" will, according to its proponents, constitute the "seven year tribulation period," prior to which the Secret Rapture will occur.

This "gap" theory states that all fulfillment of this prophecy is suspended until the Christian era is over. Then the last week of the 70 weeks prophecy becomes operative again, constituting the 7 year (a day is a year in prophecy*) period of tribulation. The "Rapturists" teach that the first sixty nine weeks of this seventy-week prophecy (490 years) reached from 457 B.C. to 27 A.D., the year that Christ began His ministry.

The "Historical" view teaches that the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9 began in 457 B.C. and ended when Stephen was stoned to death in 34 A.D. It was at that time that the gospel went to the "Gentiles" and the "Jewish" people lost their place as those "Chosen" to spread God's message to the world. They had rejected Christ by calling for His crucifixion in the "middle of the week," in 31 A.D. and then rejected Christ's followers by stoning Stephen 3 1/2 years later, at the end of the 70th week (34 A.D.).

*(1 day in prophecy = 1 year: Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6)



Which Bible texts are used in support of this Secret Rapture Theory,?
(also known as the Pre-tribulation Rapture)

see also:
http://www.secret-rapture.com/
 
Old January 29th, 2008 #16
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Default Re: THE RAPTURE CULT: Religious Zeal And Political Conspiracy

The Passage that has spurned the Rapture Error; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

[14] For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. [15] For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. [16] Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. [17] Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.

This is speaking of a "Rapture", as is a term in use today. However, the correct order of this "Rapture" is laid out in Mathew 13, in the parable of the "Tares among the Wheat". The following will only be Christ’s explanation of this parable. Matthew 13:37-43, "He answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man: (38) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; (39) The enemy that sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world (age); and the reapers are the angels. (40) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be at the end of this world (age). (41) The son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them witch do iniquity; (Rapture of the Wicked) (42) and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (43) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.’" KJV. The righteous will rise "in the air", as the wicked are removed, and destroyed.

In the Air

Ezekiel 8:2-3; "Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire; from the appearance of His loins even downward, fire; and from His loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber. (3) And He put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the Heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy." KJV.

This is my opinion of the meaning of in the clouds and in the air. A spiritual realization, an uplifting to realization. The word "air" in Greek, as well as Hebrew also translates as "breath". So, a more correct assumption of this passage was figurative, such as the notion of spirituality is from the heart, which science has shown to be figurative, since the brain handles thought. Notice the word "visions", while in the intermediate state, without question, the intent was spiritual, and not literal.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4; "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such as one caught up to the third Heaven. (3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) (4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which is not lawful for a man to utter." KJV.

The term "Caught up" also has a spiritual connotation, and as displayed again by the apostle Paul himself, the term is related to being caught up into Heaven. Once again, the idea of being caught up in the clouds is referring to a spiritual event.

1 Corinthians 15:51-57; "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. (57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." KJV.

As is discussed before, the terms "caught up", "in the clouds", and "in the air (breath)" are a reference to a spiritual event. A spiritual birth, such as when God breathed in the "breath of life" into Adam, which made him an immortal, perfect, and flawless, being. Apparently, this is explaining a return to this state of being for all the elect descendants of Adam, using idioms and phrases which were understood at the time of the writing.

As the passage of the Wheat and the Tares of Mathew’s Gospel explains that the wicked are gathered up and destroyed, and that the wheat is gathered and stored in YHVH’s barn, also figurative, there is never a mention of any one of the elect leaving this earth. YHVH God sent His Son into this world through natural laws, such as birth through a woman. I see no proof of any natural law violation being prophesied for the Second Coming, with only the exception of the return of the dead, which is only violation of natural law, as we know it. We should not be disappointed if we can not fly like Superman, or levitate into the air. The Rapture is for the wicked, they are the ones removed, we on the other hand, return to our intended immortal, pure, and perfect state. This is the change, or the incorruption and immortality which Paul speaks of, a spiritual rebirth. We are going to cleanse this earth, what purpose would that serve if we were all going to leave? Man was created to rule and subdue this earth, and there will be a time, where we do our task perfectly. Try not to laugh when you see bumper stickers, which say, "Warning, In case of Rapture, this car will be unoccupied", for their sakes, I hope not!!!
 
Old August 13th, 2011 #17
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The important point of the parable of the wheat and the tares is that the children of the Wicked One (read: Jews and assorted mamzers) will be collected first and thrown into the fire. The wheat (Israel) will be gathered into the barn... the barn being respresentative of the Kingdom in the Final Times.

Want to make a rapture monkey squirm? Point him to that parable. The more he squeals and tries to (mis) interpret scripture such as 1 Thessalonians 4, simply keep pointing back to the parable. If he continues, ask him if he's pitting scripture against scripture or twisting scripture, and remind him those are tactics of the Devil. Hours of fun.
 
Old August 13th, 2011 #18
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When our savior, Jesus, first came, He came as...


But when He returns, we will see Him in His true glory...






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Old August 13th, 2011 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
The important point of the parable of the wheat and the tares is that the children of the Wicked One (read: Jews and assorted mamzers) will be collected first and thrown into the fire. The wheat (Israel) will be gathered into the barn... the barn being respresentative of the Kingdom in the Final Times.
That's your CI interpretation of it, which is no more valid than any other interpretation.
 
Old January 6th, 2013 #20
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The evanjellycull's are not only heretic's IMO, but traitors to the founders and of all of Western peoples, thank you.


Jesus.

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