Vanguard News Network
VNN Media
VNN Digital Library
VNN Reader Mail
VNN Broadcasts


Go Back   Vanguard News Network Forum > News & Discussion > Uncensored Europe + > United Kingdom
Donate Register Multimedia Blogs Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Login

 
Thread Display Modes Share
Old June 20th, 2013 #1061
Zander
Senior Member
 
Zander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,621
Zander
Default

The devious pervert has been found guilty of abduction. Sentence to be announced shortly.
 
Old June 20th, 2013 #1062
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Teacher Jeremy Forrest could be considered a paedophile who groomed his ‘vulnerable’ young victim to satisfy his own sexual desires, a court heard today.

Prosecutor Richard Barton told a jury Forrest, 30, was attracted to young women and had betrayed the trust of his alleged schoolgirl victim, her family and his fellow teachers.

Summing up the prosecution case at Lewes Crown Court, East Sussex, Mr Barton asked: “What is it that Jeremy Forrest finds attractive about very young looking, vulnerable women? There is a word for it. It’s grooming.

“Being caring, being kind, being close, gaining the trust of that person so you can the do what you want with them.”

The prosecutor added: “You do not have to decide whether he was a paedophile; you may consider, in the context of what he did, that is not an inappropriate label for him.

“It is about his desires to have that young sexual flesh, to satisfy his own carnal lusts.”

Mr Barton continued: “You may feel it had nothing to do with her, it was to do with him, with his desires.

“You may feel he is a man who is flattered by the attention of very young, vulnerable girls.

“It is interesting to note the woman he chose to marry is a very young-looking, petite woman with her own vulnerabilities.”

Missing maths teacher Jeremy Forrest on his wedding day with wife Emily Forrest Happier times: Forrest and wife Emily on their wedding day in 2011

Mr Barton also mocked Forrest’s flit to Bordeaux last September with the 15-year-old girl.

He said: ‘You may feel that it is the oddest school trip in which one pupil goes away with one teacher and school activities include having sexual activity with a 15-year-old and changing identities.”

The prosecutor said Forrest’s role was ‘central’ to their elopement.

He added:”A teenager isn’t going to get out of Eastbourne, let alone out of the country.”

Mr Barton added that the worst “betrayal” was of the schoolgirl.

He said: “She trusted him with all her vulnerabilities and he was the figure of authority and he won’t be the first figure of authority who someone gets a crush on and he won’t be the last, but part of the role of a figure of authority is that you do not take advantage of it.”

Mr Barton also questioned how appropriate Forrest felt it was to send a photo of his “naked torso, lying on a sofa with his hands in his underpants” to the girl.

He continued in his monologue directed at Forrest: “How did you feel when the 14-year-old student, this vulnerable girl, sent you pictures of her naked breasts? What did you do with those photos?

“Did you have a private moment looking at them? Did that increase your desire to be with her?

“How did you feel, Mr Forrest, that first time with that 14-year-old girl in the classroom in her school uniform, when you kissed her the first time?”

Mr Barton reminded the jury that Forrest, who appeared to sport a black left eye, had decided not to give evidence and had not filed a statement of his defence.

He continued: “Mr Forrest, what is your defence?

“You may feel this is the question he fears the most because, during his experience as a teacher, he may have heard some pretty lame excuses for homework not being done on time and that sort of thing and he may think

‘Please, sir, I don’t have a defence - my dog ate it’ isn’t going to cut the mustard, isn’t going to stand up to scrutiny and that he had no defence at all.

“You may feel that this is a musician who is ultimately unable to face the music, you may feel he is a maths teacher whose story doesn’t add up.

“I invite you to find him guilty as charged.”

Earlier Forrest’s defence barrister Ronald Jaffa read out six ‘character statements’ from his friends, family and former colleagues.

He was described as a “talented and inspirational” teacher who “cared for others” and who has spent his time in prison teaching other inmates.

His sister Carrie Hanspaul said she believed his caring nature had got him into trouble.

Mrs Hanspaul said: “He is very good natured and extremely mild-mannered.

“He never has a bad word to say about anyone and always strives to do whatever he can to help other people and care for them.

“Unfortunately I believe this has contributed to his recent actions.”
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...eacher-groomed


My emphasis: Can I hear a couple of apologies?

Seems like someone else is disgusted with him, too.

Sentencing tomorrow.
Quote:
A teacher has been found guilty of abducting a 15-year-old girl and taking her to France when their affair was about to exposed.

Jeremy Forrest will be sentenced tomorrow after he was convicted at Lewes Crown Court following an eight-day trial in which he was labelled a paedophile by the prosecution.

Lawyers argued that the 30-year-old had "groomed" the vulnerable teenager and his actions were a gross breach of trust.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-8666809.html
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 20th, 2013 #1063
Mr A.Anderson
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,481
Default

I don't remember, and this thread is impossible to search. What were all the charges, and which was he found guilty?

At least they got it right so far, hopefully it carries over into sentencing.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1064
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A.Anderson View Post
I don't remember, and this thread is impossible to search. What were all the charges, and which was he found guilty?

At least they got it right so far, hopefully it carries over into sentencing.
I think they just ended up charging him with child abduction, which he was found guilty of.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1065
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Notice how the media completely ignored this and updates were only reported in Forrest's local rag or in the French media? Now he's been found guilty, it's the school's fault, the police's fault, everybody but Forrest's fault.

Relative already claiming mental health:
Quote:
“I am sure that he had some sort of breakdown because of the problems with his marriage and this was his way out.”



Sentencing any minute now.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1066
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Forrest has pleaded guilty at Lewes Crown Court to five charges of sexual activity with a child.
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...g-live-updates

Quote:
Forrest admitted the offences when he was appearing at Lewes Crown Court to be sentenced for child abduction.

The 30-year-old was not originally charged with sex offences for legal reasons linked to his extradition.

But in court today, he admitted the five charges, a day after he was found guilty of child abduction following an eight-day trial.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1067
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Paedophile teacher Jeremy Forrest has been jailed for five and a half years at Lewes Crown Court for abducting a 15-year-old girl and five charges of sexual activity with a child.
from above mirror link
Quote:
judge is told that there has been "third party communication" between teacher and pupil judge says may be a matter for police
https://twitter.com/NickPisa
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1068
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Disgraced maths teacher Jeremy Forrest has been jailed for five and a half years today and banned from working with children for the rest of his life.

The 30-year-old was yesterday convicted of abducting his schoolgirl lover when she was 15 and taking her on the run in France for eight days.

This morning Forrest decided to plead guilty to five charges of sexual activity with a child to avoid another trial.

The jury heard that during their four-month affair they sometimes had sex up to eight times a night in his car, home or hotels, and the 30-year-old first kissed her in a classroom when she was 14.

Prosecutors at Lewes Crown Court said their affair was 'not Romeo and Juliet' and that Forrest was a 'paedophile' satisfying his 'carnal desires'.

It came as his victim, now 16, promised him: 'I'll always be waiting for you' in a series of ardent messages written online after her lover's arrest and even during his trial.

Yesterday Jeremy Forrest had mouthed 'I love you' to his schoolgirl girlfriend from the dock - she then sobbed and replied 'I love you. I'm so sorry' as he was found guilty of her abduction.

The disgraced maths teacher faces up to seven years in jail when he is sentenced today for taking her on the run for eight days.

It appears they want to resume their relationship as soon as he is free and a series of online messages by the girl have now emerged, in which the teenager openly defended the 30-year-old and their affair.

Meanwhile, in a message online she said: 'It's "not Romeo and Juliet?" Of course it's not!

'That's a tragedy and they both f****** died. How moronic!'

Over their four month affair, which started with a classroom kiss, they had sex in his car, home and at hotels, often without contraception, before the 30-year-old took the teenager to France in September last year.



Forrest had abducted the girl when he feared the school and the police were on to them.

Writing about prosecution claims they sometimes had sex eight times a night, she said: 'I’m no Russell Brand. Honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I’m a young girl yes, but I’m no Russell Brand! Honestly in shock!'



As she turned 16 last month, she said: 'Realising that 16 feels exactly the same as being 15. Oh, the irony!'

It has also emerged that the girl was arrested on the second say of Forrest's trial because police had been told she would refuse to give evidence against the man she loved.

She wrote later when she was about to see him in court, the first time since their arrest in Bordeaux, she said: 'Too excited to sleep'.

Her online messages also reveal her feelings while Forrest was arrested and in custody waiting to be tried.

On Christmas Day 2012 she said: 'Still wide awake... thinking about who I am without this Christmas and hoping this will be the last Christmas I have to be!'

After the New Year, on January 3, she said simply: ''I'll always be waiting for you'.

Confirming their plan, a family friend said last night the pair remain ‘desperately in love’.


The jury heard how Forrest started grooming the ‘infatuated’ girl while teaching at Bishop Bell Church of England school in Eastbourne, East Sussex.

The maths teacher first kissed her in his classroom when she was just 14. When she turned 15, they swapped topless photos by text and he seduced her at secret meetings at his house while his wife was out.

When other teachers repeatedly warned him against encouraging the girl he told ‘bare faced lies’ and said nothing was going on.

He even telephoned the teenager’s mother to complain about the effect the ‘falsehoods’ could have on his career.



But after police were tipped off last September, the pair fled to France on a ferry in what was described as ‘every parent’s worst nightmare’.

Despite using false names and dyeing their hair, they were caught eight days later in Bordeaux.

The girl was brought home and Forrest was extradited back to Britain. She sat weeping in the public gallery yesterday as the verdict was delivered following an eight-day trial at Lewes Crown Court.


She sat behind Forrest’s family in the courtroom, well away from her mother. Afterwards, in the corridor outside the courtroom, mother and daughter did not exchange a glance.

'They still love each other. It has survived his arrest and trial and everything else. Once he is released he plans to go straight to her and restart their relationship'

Family source

Before she gave evidence last week, Forrest had not seen the girl since his arrest in September.

He telephoned his father from jail the night after seeing his lover give evidence to tell him: ‘I feel normal for the first time.’

The family source said: ‘They still love each other. It has survived his arrest and trial and everything else.

'Once he is released he plans to go straight to her and restart their relationship. The family will support Jeremy whatever his decision.’



The source added: ‘After she was brought home to Britain the schoolgirl wrote to his parents to apologise for what happened. She said she felt safer with Jeremy than she ever did at home, at school or with her friends.’

'They know he has done wrong but they will stick by him. He remains their son'

Family source

Close friends said the girl had changed her Facebook status to ‘In a relationship’ after returning from France last year.

Forrest’s parents have been visiting him three times a week on remand in Lewes Prison, where he has mixed with hardened criminals including armed robbers.

He has been teaching literacy and numeracy to other prisoners and reading philosophy. The family source said: ‘He gets some stick but he deals with it through humour.’


The family source added: ‘They know he has done wrong but they will stick by him. He remains their son.’

'Every aspect of our lives has been affected to some degree'

Girl's mother

Forrest’s father, 60-year-old Jim, collapsed yesterday outside the courtroom as he waited for the judge to start summing up the case. He was taken to hospital by ambulance but later returned home and was said to be recovering.

For the past two months the schoolgirl has been living with her stepfather, who is divorced from her mother. Last night after she returned home, he said they were looking forward to spending some time together as a family.

Outside court, the girl’s mother described the last nine months as ‘like living out your worst nightmare.’ She said: ‘Every aspect of our lives has been affected to some degree.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-Forrest.html
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1069
S.G.
Senior Member
 
S.G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 647
S.G.
Default

Very harsh sentence in my opinion, considering that the girl was a willing participant. Can anyone also explain how this girl was "kidnapped"?

Muslims convicted of actual rape don't get anything near five and a half years.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1070
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.G. View Post
Can anyone also explain how this girl was "kidnapped"?
He did not have permission from her guardian to take her out of the country so it's kidnap. Doesn't matter if she went willingly; the law states that she was not old enough to make the decision.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1071
Mr A.Anderson
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bev View Post
He did not have permission from her guardian to take her out of the country so it's kidnap. Doesn't matter if she went willingly; the law states that she was not old enough to make the decision.
Indeed. Add to that the 5 charges of sexual activity with a child as well. There's a reason why young girls are called 'jail-bait', even if they are the aggressor. The law has stated that 14 or 15 year old girls are not mentally mature enough to make those types of decisions for themselves. They are not mentally mature enough to enter into legally binding contracts with adults, they are not mentally mature enough to enter into physical relationships with adults. Period.

Some people disagree with the "arbitrary age determination" - and this thread is full of that argument. However, it doesn't change the lettering of the law or the facts of this case.

As I'm not familiar with UK sentencing laws, will he be eligible for parole with good behavior, after serving half his sentence (like he would be here in the US)?
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1072
Mr A.Anderson
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.G. View Post
Muslims convicted of actual rape don't get anything near five and a half years.
Jeremy was white.........

See where this is going?

Don't get me wrong. Forrest is a scumbag pedophile, IMO and the court's, and deserves his sentence. However, it would not surprise me if there is a disparity between sentences between muslims and whites. The courts would not want to appear to be racist by being harsh on muslim criminals anymore than the entire system doesn't wish to appear to be racist by holding non-whites to the exact same standards as native Brits.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1073
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A.Anderson View Post
Indeed. Add to that the 5 charges of sexual activity with a child as well. There's a reason why young girls are called 'jail-bait', even if they are the aggressor. The law has stated that 14 or 15 year old girls are not mentally mature enough to make those types of decisions for themselves. They are not mentally mature enough to enter into legally binding contracts with adults, they are not mentally mature enough to enter into physical relationships with adults. Period.

Some people disagree with the "arbitrary age determination" - and this thread is full of that argument. However, it doesn't change the lettering of the law or the facts of this case.

As I'm not familiar with UK sentencing laws, will he be eligible for parole with good behavior, after serving half his sentence (like he would be here in the US)?
He should be eligible for parole, and he should get the time he's been on remand knocked off as well. They may let him out after two years or so on the tagging GPS system.

By all accounts, he's been a model prisoner so far, teaching other prisoners maths and so on, so I expect that'll go in his favour.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1074
dunotra
Senior Member
 
dunotra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,116
dunotra
Default

I did not won't to start a new thread so posted this here:

Quote:
Teacher accused of sexual abuse at Amsterdam Jewish school

Friday 21 June 2013

A former teacher at the Cheider orthodox Jewish school in Amsterdam has been accused of sexually abusing pupils by a number of parents, the Telegraaf reports on Friday.

The teacher, in his 20s and named as Ephraim S, moved to Tel Aviv after he was sacked for ‘inappropriate behaviour’. The Netherlands has now officially asked Israel for its help in the case, the Telegraaf says.

According to one report, S had sexual contact with a 16-year-old pupil. Other pupils came forward with similar stories after S was dismissed, the paper said.

Private tuition

S now gives tuition to children in Israel, sources told the paper. The public prosecution department has apparently confirmed the school made a formal complaint against him.

S has refused to comment on the claims.

The Cheider school in Amsterdam caters for children aged two to 18 and has some 200 pupils. Children have to obey a strict dress code and there are separate lessons for girls and boys.

© DutchNews.nl
- See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive....vL07KBk2.dpuf
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1075
Harrington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 572
Harrington
Default

''The girl sobbed and said sorry as he was led to the cells''


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...?ncid=webmail1

5.5 years is very harsh imo, by all accounts she was very willing.....
__________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1076
EDLIE Stampton
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pound land
Posts: 2,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.G. View Post
Very harsh sentence in my opinion, considering that the girl was a willing participant. Can anyone also explain how this girl was "kidnapped"?

Muslims convicted of actual rape don't get anything near five and a half years.
Are you sick or just thick.
The cunt had been grooming the child and had his first admitted sexual contact with her in school when she was 14.He then admitted repeatedly raping her when she was 15.
As he was her teacher and in a position of trust,by law he could not have a relationship with the child until she is 18.
This law is to protect children from grooming which is exactly what it never done for this child.
Then we get sick fucks like you defending the paedophiles.
It used to be only reds that stood up for the sick rope dodgers.
Now the friend of the paedophile disease is reaching ever deeper into the so called defenders of the white race.It shows just what a morally perverted corrupt bunch of scum the white race has become.

You rubbish about muslims tells me you must be one ignorant cunt.

Pure white paedophile who abused two girls aged seven and eight is spared jail after judge says it would be unfair to HIS family.
200 hours community service.(dailymail)30 4 2013

Judge refused to jail pure white paedophile for fear he will "have a hard time in prison."(Express)1 4 2013

Judge refuses to jail pure white paedophile who blindfolded then sexually abused three children as young as six.Tarnished reputation is punishment enough.(All national papers)June 2013

Pure white paedophile school bus driver to go on sexual rehabilitation course after sexually assaulting 3 children aged 11 and 12 and targeting other children between 6 and 9.
The pure white paedophile Paul Bartlett received a caution 2 years before for the rape of a 14 year old child.

Pure white paedophile that sexually attacked a 5 year old child and previously attacked a 12 year old child given 18 months suspended for 2 years.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1077
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Exactly, Edlie. It's all on that "teacher" label. In loco parentis = position of trust etc. I don't think anyone would be screaming fetch the rope at a 17 and 15 year old nor at a 30 and 16 year old but he abused her trust and THAT'S what is so wrong.

Earlier in the thread, I stated my belief that he had groomed her by finding her online, seeing her "bucket list" and fulfilling some of her childish dreams - having a love song written to her, being told she was loved, etc. How is that different from the Pakistani who buys the 15 year old he's grooming a piece of Elizabeth Duke's finest £9.99-that'lldofine gold and stating that he "loves" her? The prosecutor also described the process by which he got her to go away with him as "grooming" and also noted that his wife looked very young and childlike. Added to that, the tattoo he had done of a young girl on his arm and it all adds up.

All those claiming it's harsh - would you let your 14/15 year old jump into bed with her 30 year old married maths teacher? I doubt it.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1078
Bev
drinking tea
 
Bev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: England
Posts: 38,247
Bev
Default

Tell you what though - and I am NOT defending Forrest AT ALL - but when you weigh it up against the 15 months that the It's A Knockout paedo got for molesting 15 girls - one of whom was aged 9 - there is a clear sentencing discrepancy.
__________________
Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1079
S.G.
Senior Member
 
S.G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 647
S.G.
Default

I think you are a thick. It was the girl who instigated the relationship (which she has admitted in court). She has even been in court all through the trial supporting Jeremy Forrest. Obviously this is NOT your typical rape case that involves force.

Obviously what Jeremy Forrest has done is wrong. I'm just questioning the length of his sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDLIE Stampton View Post
Are you sick or just thick.
The cunt had been grooming the child and had his first admitted sexual contact with her in school when she was 14.He then admitted repeatedly raping her when she was 15.
As he was her teacher and in a position of trust,by law he could not have a relationship with the child until she is 18.
This law is to protect children from grooming which is exactly what it never done for this child.
Then we get sick fucks like you defending the paedophiles.
It used to be only reds that stood up for the sick rope dodgers.
Now the friend of the paedophile disease is reaching ever deeper into the e girlso called defenders of the white race.It shows just what a morally perverted corrupt bunch of scum the white race has become.

You rubbish about muslims tells me you must be one ignorant cunt.

Pure white paedophile who abused two girls aged seven and eight is spared jail after judge says it would be unfair to HIS family.
200 hours community service.(dailymail)30 4 2013

Judge refused to jail pure white paedophile for fear he will "have a hard time in prison."(Express)1 4 2013

Judge refuses to jail pure white paedophile who blindfolded then sexually abused three children as young as six.Tarnished reputation is punishment enough.(All national papers)June 2013

Pure white paedophile school bus driver to go on sexual rehabilitation course after sexually assaulting 3 children aged 11 and 12 and targeting other children between 6 and 9.
The pure white paedophile Paul Bartlett received a caution 2 years before for the rape of a 14 year old child.

Pure white paedophile that sexually attacked a 5 year old child and previously attacked a 12 year old child given 18 months suspended for 2 years.
 
Old June 21st, 2013 #1080
Hadding
Senior Member
 
Hadding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,247
Hadding
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrington View Post
''The girl sobbed and said sorry as he was led to the cells''


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...?ncid=webmail1

5.5 years is very harsh imo, by all accounts she was very willing.....
Obviously, yes.

I expected to find out what we did find out, that going to France was the girl's idea. Add to this that she was only a few months short of being legal and the manic vengefulness against Jeremy Forrest on the part of some people is quite perplexing.

It certainly has nothing to do with any reasonable allegation of harm to the girl, since there would have been no penalty for a teenage Negro or Pakistani that had done what Forrest did.

Nobody except Forrest's feminist career-woman wife was particularly harmed, until the sensationalist mass-media and the feminist lynch-mob got involved.

Forrest fell down in allowing himself to be led by the girl, and he failed to abide by professional ethics, and he should be barred from teaching because of that. Feminists would have the man castrated, if they could.

Last edited by Hadding; June 21st, 2013 at 12:56 PM.
 
Reply

Tags
forrest, groomers, grooming, jeremy forrest, paedophile

Share


Thread
Display Modes


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 AM.
Page generated in 0.18830 seconds.