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December 21st, 2010 | #61 |
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Whoever was fighting with Ray about the "3 shots not killing someone? That's pretty unbelievable" thing, look on Liveleak.com. They have videos of taliban guys getting shot with 2-3 3 round bursts from ARs in 5.56 and they only drop to a knee at most before the whole squad unloads on them. I'm not saying that will ALWAYS happen, but it's definitely noteworthy that it CAN happen.
Ray clearly didn't mean only adrenaline but that if the spinal cord is severed the person physically CAN NOT continue fighting. It's not a matter of willpower or adrenaline if that happens. And my opinion is stick with the AK for extreme close range(even though I hate AKs with a passion) and get a different gun chambered for 5.56(ARs suck, get an FN SCAR or Bushmaster ACR) if you're going to be shooting 100-150yds, and something bigger for anything longer range. Everyone seems to have their own favorite when it comes to "sniper" rifles.(.50BMG for non-human targets, .308, .416, or .408 for human targets are generally the best.) |
December 21st, 2010 | #62 | |
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December 21st, 2010 | #63 | |
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December 21st, 2010 | #64 |
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Guys, remember while you're discussing anti-ballistic armor, there are levels. Each level representing a resistance up to certain types, or 'powers', of ammunition.
Soft armor is made of materials such as kevlar, spectra, or other aramid fabrics, and ranging in levels of protection from I to IIIA, with IIIA being the highest rated of the soft armors. Beyond this is 'hard' armor. Hard armor includes steel, ceramic or other suitable non-flexible materials, and comes in two levels: III and IV. Know yer shit, you'll come better prepared. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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December 21st, 2010 | #65 |
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What matters is under what circumstances and why you would be using it.
For self defence, neither are suitable, as the courts will nail you for using either of them. The vast majority of murders, attempted murders and assaults GBH and otherwise, in civilian life, are by friends and family in and around the home under the influence of drugs or liquor. Jewish judges and Aztec prosecutors don't assume that Whites with assault rifles are victims, especially if your opponent didn't have one. If a home invasion occurs, they will view you as an evil white racist defying the state who murdered helpless Jefferson Washington who was going to be a brain surgeon, his cousin Abraham Abdul Mohammed who was a community organiser supporting his sick mother, and that you attacked their 5 companions whilst they were innocently looking for a glass of water in your fridge at 2am. Then they will state that you used an "assault rifle" whilst the jury of homos, drunks, radical community organisers and Jewish lesbian university lecturers gasps, and decide you with an assault rifle were the attacker, and right there you will see the gates of hell opening in front of you. The shotgun is the only reliable self defence weapon, courts grudgingly accept it as a defensive weapon, and even with one, it will even then often be necessary to fire several shots at each of your attackers, even with slugs. There should be only one version of what happened. Don't be selfish and stingy with ammunition, share as many of your rounds with your attackers as you can. Sharing is caring. If preparing for say a meltdown, if you want to live, focus more upon building up a group. The group itself is the weapon, not the firearms, but use an AK. If not, well then it doesn't really matter. For attack, unless hitting the target repeatedly which only happens if part of a group spraying out rounds, both AR and AK are pretty useless. Look in any military or ghetto hospital how many people survive being shot, many who survived killed the ones who shot them themselves personally after they had been shot, or saw them die. Look at any car accident, how much damage gets done, how many and deep the wounds are, and the person survives, and is still functional, and that's when they're usually sober, not high on drugs. Will your round break an arm or leg? So what? Just go and sit in any hospital emergency room for a while, watching, and see what people survive. Soldiers are considered expendable because they die out of sight, and rarely properly armed for the situation. Don't copy soldiers. If planning for general civil unrest, use the same as what the local SWAT teams and riot police use, adn join the reserves so you know what to do. SAS weapons: Cops are like precious flowers to the state, as the state depends upon them to protect the state, so the state arms them properly, and usually looks after them. For combat, if the AR was better, terrs would choose it given the chance, and regular troops wouldn't abandon it and choose an AK. Everyone in combat prefers the AK given the choice. Usually close combat ends with butt hitting, bayonet stabbing, throwing onto the ground and kicking and shooting repeatedly. For operations in urban terrain, air attack, booby traps, explosives, grenades, mines, fire and smoke are the usual attack weapons. Bullets are for if you get lucky and meet someone who hesitates. If they're in your range, you're in their range. The hydrostatic shock of the round hitting the attacker will never be more than the recoil you feel when firing, usually less. To knock an attacker down, the recoil would need to knock the shooter back or down. What does happen is that they turn away, slip or lose their balance, and then fall. The 5.56 was chosen so as to wound the enemy repeatedly, and thus slow down the enemy, deplete their medical resources, inflict psychological damage, and lower morale. It also then necessitated the enemy casevaccing wounded, which could give you an idea of where their bases were, how far away, etc. That's why armies armed with 5.56 avoid close combat, wear personal armour, rely on air attacks, and spray and pray.Usually they get shot in the face or shoulders, and survive. Snipers use a .50 for a reason. Ak's are popular for a reason. If you really want to prepare for a meltdown, go to a combat shooting range see for yourself what various rounds can actually do under simulated combat situations. Stand up a 70 kilo bag of sand, and shoot into it, and see the knockdown power of your rounds. Ask any hunter if deer when shot fall down immediately, or for how long afterwards they survive. Then assume the target is a vital organ. Targets that matter, heart and liver, or face, exist in an area the size of an A5 piece of paper, so that should be the total size of the target, at a 45 degree angle. In front of the target put a piece of meat half a foot to a foot thick. Put a one inch pine board in front of the meat to simulate bone. In front of the board, put a piece of heavy shirt and a piece of heavy jacket material. Your round needs to penetrate clothing, board, meat and then hit the target. To simulate your likely situation, do pushups till muscle failure, so you're sweating, breathless and shaking. Then swing the target violently from side to side. To simulate actual combat shooting, you should swing three or four such targets violently together simultaneously, and from 10 metres away give yourself one shot per target, all swinging, and hit all targets within 1 to 2 seconds. If you didn't hit every target at least once, you will have been killed. If your rounds don't penetrate to every target, it will not even reach a vital organ, and you will have been killed, your enemy will have aimed and fired. A second can be a long time. There's a 99.99% percent chance of your being killed if they are a group, and you are alone. If you're thinking of a meltdown, it will almost never happen you even see them when they fire on you. It will never happen as they hide behind things, which is why you need an AK to shoot through their cover, but for sake of illustration a pack of terrs running at full speed from different angles bobbing and weaving can easily cover 5 to 10 metres per second, shooting at you as they come, and begin stabbing you when they arrive. Thus during your practice shoot you may want to also drop to the ground and roll over building rubble during your one second window of opportunity, whilst throwing sand in your face, firing your one shot per target. Often when soldiers drop to the ground, they injure their knees shoulders and/or elbows so badly, they drop their weapons. Bearing in mind that with a real body, the round would hit someone in motion, clothing, bone, usually hit at an angle not straight on like on a range, and will most likely strike an arm or hand and not even hit the body. Even if shot straight through the heart, they are still mobile and functional for several seconds afterwards, and will reach you, and in several seconds can still kill you, even with no heart. There will almost never be only one of them, and they will be upon you, and your rifle will be useless. That's the reality of close quarter combat, and why if alone you will be killed, if you're lucky. Depending who your opponent is, especially if they're black, it may be better to shoot yourself if you're unable to continue firing. Black terrs do things to prisoners that make medics and doctors finding them afterwards vomit. That's why even the average sniper almost never operates alone, and why soldiers and police are taught to always move, attack and defend in a group. Single men using single weapons in close quarter combat are usually killed or wounded at the very least. Attackers are almost never alone, and need to be hit repeatedly for it to matter. In a real situation, you will probably be in your car, have your hands full with shopping bags, be working on the car or gardening, or have just woken up or been surprised, and not have it on you. If you do, you'll not know what is going on, be hyperventilating, shaking, unsure whether to shoot or not with thoughts of court cases flying through your head, where's your family, the targets will be bobbing and weaving, there will usually be three or four of them 2 to 5 metres away from you, they will be armed, often high, usually far fitter and stronger than you, and they will be physically upon you. If in your house, some will go for you, others for your family, and you will have tunnel vision. Very few people hit hard with a stick even fall down, and bullets have far less force. Repeated hits with a stick are going to be more effective than most bullets, which don't penetrate deep enough to matter. Sticks don't work in very close combat ie within inches unless you are highly trained, and your attackers will be. At best, rather than have tonfas and batons etc, keep and use a maglite on your belt rather. They're stronger and heavier than most sticks, and whatever you can do with a stick, you can do with a maglite. A small fist sized maglite can be useful, but you won't have space to strike sideways or build up momentum, and if you stab them with it, it will in all likelihood slide through your sweating hand, get dropped or they will grab it and take it from you. The best and in fact only useful weapon for defence against criminals, and which can be kept on you at all times everywhere, is a pair of handcuffs, which can be used from a car, seated, in any position, under any circumstances. Slip your left hand through the loop before you even go for your gun, and you can stab right into them, break, cut and rip them to pieces, smash bone , still grab as well, and won't injure your own hands. It requires no space, and no more training to throw a punch. Take that same target from earlier, and punch the hinge of your handcuffs hard into it, and twist. If training, protect the base of your palm. Seeing is believing. Bear in mind, the average human can cover 100 metres in 15 to 20 seconds with ease. Most gunshots hit the first time at 5 metres or less, once. Very few people die directly from gunshot wounds. If they die soon after, it's usually from injuries if they should fall and not save themselves, blood loss and shock. Those with weak hearts usually have heart attacks. Other than that, it's usually bloodpoisoning/infection/organ failure several days afterwards. Most people who have been shot, if bleeding and shock are handled immediately, will survive if they have expert medical care within an hour. The same applies to your attacker. Guns don't have the impact that people think, especially on hardened criminals high on drugs and booze, so don't depend on them. Many blacks are so infected with diseases, just getting their blood on you can kill you with disease. Rather avoid such situations, which is usually easy to do if you stay sober, and avoid drunks and blacks. Put a couple door wedges under each of your external doors at night, make sure you have a strong security gate over all external doors, and across the passage to your rooms, and that all your windows have burgalr proofing, with retractable bars over main windows. Have a safe room, with a solid metal door, and a security gate with a slam lock, and a fire extinguisher, first aid, weapons and cellphones in it. Stopping their attack is only the beginning. Never ever ever say you fired to wound or kill, that will be distorted and you will be found guilty more than likely. You were in fear of your and your families lives, and you fired to stop the attack. Just stick with that you fired to "stop the attack." If you say you fired to wound, well then, you obviously were in control and felt able to wound, so killing them was not necessary, yet you killed them. If you say you fired to kill, then that was premeditated. You fired to stop the attack. If you do shoot, shut up. Don't speak to anyone. You can bet the police and later the courts will be furious that you defended yourself instead of relying on the state to defend you, will interview folks around you, and if they say how you lit up a smoke, and cracked jokes about whacking that sucker, well... Don't lie. Go inside your home, stay inside, get a lawyer, and shut up. You don't go to prison for what you didn't say. If you do, it will be for less than what you did say. A contempt of court blah blah blah is not the same as murder.
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December 21st, 2010 | #66 | |
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Could you post a picture of handcuffs being used like that?
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December 22nd, 2010 | #67 | |
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December 22nd, 2010 | #68 |
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December 22nd, 2010 | #69 |
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There's only a small handful of ammo that WILL be stopped by body armor. Some types of standard ammunition will even pierce deeper than armor piercing rounds of other types. Take for example the 5.7x28mm, which has armor piercing ammo available only to the military, but the standard round will pierce through 3/4 of a grade 3 vest.
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December 24th, 2010 | #70 |
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December 25th, 2010 | #71 |
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December 25th, 2010 | #72 |
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December 26th, 2010 | #73 |
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Lol, I already stated in this thread that I hate AKs too. I'd actually take a garand over one, but nearly anything else newer over either.
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December 26th, 2010 | #74 |
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The M1 Garand is a superb weapon, and I can tell even though I've never fired one.
I really like the concept of a semi-auto chambered in 30-06 (and btw, I heard there are some AK's out there chambered in 30-06 too); too bad its clip - yes, it's a clip, not a magazine, since it's fed from the top - has a shitty capacity, not to mention that loud metalic sound that it does when you run out of ammo.
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December 27th, 2010 | #75 | |
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By the way, I think they're supposed to be making the ACR in 30-06, but they've been announcing about 12 different chamberings for that thing since it came out around March and I think they JUST brought the 6.8mm out recently if it's even out yet. |
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