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Old September 19th, 2014 #61
Hadding
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Originally Posted by procopius View Post
Listen, the insanity defense doesn't really work.... So, please stop with the stupid insanity defense nonsense.
I don't even say "insanity" in regard to Steele. Nowadays the standard for "insanity" as a defense for committing a crime is impossibly high. You can believe that you are demonically possessed and still not qualify for not guilty by reason of insanity. Why? Because you knew that what you were doing was wrong, even though from your perspective a demon was forcing you to do it.

I say diminished capacity. I have two lawyers who say that this was the defense that Steele should have attempted.

Last edited by Hadding; September 19th, 2014 at 11:22 PM.
 
Old September 20th, 2014 #62
vindicator06
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post

Dr. Bob didn't get into trouble for Thunderbolt of Truth and Steele didn't get in trouble for Defensive Racism.

Steele got into trouble because he tried to hire Larry Fairfax to kill his wife.

[/indent]
It just doesn't make any sense, especially since Cindy Steele adamantly
defends him and says the whole thing was a setup. I certainly wouldn't
have any positive feelings about anyone who put a pipe bomb in my car.

Surely he must have known he was a public figure in the legal sense of
the concept. Glenn Miller must have known the same thing. Knowing
that the eyes of the world were upon them, how could they even
conceive of such a thing, much less to expect to pull it off?

In fact, Prime Minister Bibi over in Tel Aviv had a few words to say about
the latter. I have no doubt the Prime Minister was just as aware of the
activities of Steele and his book.

Matt Hale always struck me as being a firebrand. However, do you
really believe he conspired to murder a Federal judge? I for one, do
not.
 
Old September 20th, 2014 #63
Hadding
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It just doesn't make any sense, especially since Cindy Steele adamantly
defends him and says the whole thing was a setup. I certainly wouldn't
have any positive feelings about anyone who put a pipe bomb in my car.

Surely he must have known he was a public figure in the legal sense of
the concept. Glenn Miller must have known the same thing. Knowing
that the eyes of the world were upon them, how could they even
conceive of such a thing, much less to expect to pull it off?

In fact, Prime Minister Bibi over in Tel Aviv had a few words to say about
the latter. I have no doubt the Prime Minister was just as aware of the
activities of Steele and his book.

Matt Hale always struck me as being a firebrand. However, do you
really believe he conspired to murder a Federal judge? I for one, do
not.
Hale is a completely different matter from Steele. There's nothing "Mission Impossible" about what happened to Matt Hale. It's very easy to understand and it's happened many times before, to people involved in controversial politics who also tolerated discussions about illegal activity.

Steele was doing a lot of things that didn't make sense. Telling his wife to lie to the FBI when he knew that he was being monitored in jail didn't make any sense. Continuing to write love-letters to his Ukrainian girlfriend didn't make any sense.

Did you read the letter that I have posted on my blog wherein Steele heartily endorses the proposition that he wasn't in his right mind?

http://noncounterproductive.blogspot...-j-steele.html

If Steele is happy to say that he wasn't in his right mind, then why do you expect everything that he does to make sense?
 
Old September 20th, 2014 #64
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Quote:

Did you read the letter that I have posted on my blog wherein Steele heartily endorses the proposition that he wasn't in his right mind?
I just did. Quite a plateful. I shall take it under advisement.
 
Old September 21st, 2014 #65
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Cyndi claims “The last time I spoke with Edgar was three weeks ago, and he was in good health. I could not have imagined he would die three weeks later.”

What is worse was that Mrs. Steele had to find out the details surrounding Steele’s last days from a supporter, who had been contacted by another prisoner in Victorville.

“Robert Magnuson, president of the Edgar Steele Defense Fund, received an email the morning of the day Edgar passed away,” Mrs. Steele said. “It was a message sent several days earlier to a friend from a Victorville inmate who knew Edgar and was watching his back. The inmate, who saw Edgar after not having seen him for a couple of weeks, said Edgar’s health was in sharp decline. He was in a wheelchair, was disoriented, hallucinating and wasn’t recognizing anyone. He was skinny as a skeleton, half-naked, unkempt and seemed heavily drugged. Later in the day I got the news that Edgar passed away.”
- See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=19620#comment-2822


Actually I contacted Cyndi on the evening of August 28th to let her know that Ed was in very poor health. Below is the message I sent her via Facebook. I have full reason to believe she received it since she had been on FB 3 hours earlier and seemed to post frequently, plus most people get emails that say they have a facebook message waiting for them.


"Hello Cyndi, I was asked to send you a message from Jake Laskey. He contacted a friend of mine, and asked her to get a message to you. According to him Ed is very thin to the point of being skeletal, he is in a wheelchair and he is rambling incoherently. He says he seems ” out of his mind” Jake was separated from Ed for a few months and he said that he is in really bad shape now. I just wanted to let you know so that you could try to get some medical intervention if possible. I will be keeping this information to myself and not sharing it. That is your call. April Gaede"


The last time I spoke to Ed was in May or June. We spoke for about 15 minutes. It was difficult and uncomfortable because of course telling a friend that their story seems untruthful is hurtful. I didn't want to hurt Ed but I had to tell him the truth about what I thought.

He said " I'm glad that you weren't on my jury". I replied, " Ed, if you can convince me of the set up story then you have a real chance to convince other people. I consider you a friend and I WANT to believe the story but I cant lie and tell you it sounds reasonable".

He then said, and he had also written this in an email to me, that the reason that he wrote 20 page letters to the young woman living at my house during the summer of 2011 was because he was " trying to prep her for typing and proofreading my next book". That didn't make any sense to me because Heather was (maybe) a high school graduate and had no experience proofreading books, she was only recently interested in WNism and unknown to Ed personally. Why would he intrust such an important thing as his possible last book to a person he didn't know? Why wouldn't his wife or kids be typing it up? Why not another White Nationalist typing it up and checking it? Why would Heather not mention this to me as she reported in full detail all her conversations with David Duke ( which by the way I contacted DD and verified). She was trying hard to impress me with information about who she was in contact with and she said that the letters from Ed were " basically flirting".

He also mentioned that he thought that the Russian Mafia might be behind setting him up. I told him that I thought if they wanted to kill him they would just "send out some guy and shoot them while they were out feeding the horses" or something like that.

It was difficult to not be able to support a friend when they are accused because you don't believe their defense story. I'm sorry for any pain this causes the family. I certainly don't intend it but I also know that it is the truth as I see it.

I'm just glad he is not sitting in that prison anymore.
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Last edited by April; September 22nd, 2014 at 12:27 AM.
 
Old September 21st, 2014 #66
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It was difficult to not be able to support a friend when they are accused because you don't believe their defense story. I'm sorry for any pain this causes the family. I certainly don't intend it but I also know that it is the truth as I see it.

I'm just glad he is not sitting in that prison anymore.
The best way to support Ed Steele would have been to tell him that he was full of shit early on. Then he could have thought about a more viable defense. But I don't expect a woman to do that.

And actually he did contemplate a different defense. Steele acknowledged in his letter to Jim Giles dated 1 August 2010 that he had not been in his right mind. At one point some beginning steps were being taken toward a medical defense. Documentation about Steele's consumption of drugs was submitted. But for whatever reason that alternate, probably much more viable path was discontinued.
 
Old September 21st, 2014 #67
Sam Emerson
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The best way to support Ed Steele would have been to tell him that he was full of shit early on.
Give it a fucking rest. Talk about counterproductive.
 
Old September 21st, 2014 #68
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Give it a fucking rest. Talk about counterproductive.
You give it a fucking rest. You idiots wasted shitloads of time, energy, and money that is gone forever.

You might want to learn not to do it again.
 
Old September 21st, 2014 #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
The best way to support Ed Steele would have been to tell him that he was full of shit early on. Then he could have thought about a more viable defense. But I don't expect a woman to do that.

And actually he did contemplate a different defense. Steele acknowledged in his letter to Jim Giles dated 1 August 2010 that he had not been in his right mind. At one point some beginning steps were being taken toward a medical defense. Documentation about Steele's consumption of drugs was submitted. But for whatever reason that alternate, probably much more viable path was discontinued.
Well you might not expect it but I did confront Ed about it early and often. Honestly Don and I were some of the first people to contact Ed and his family and try to convince them that his story of the "mission impossible " set up was impossible to believe. I wrote Ed numerous letters early on this specific topic. He wrote back that he " had a crush" on me and sent me a song to have the girls record for Cyndi's birthday. I wrote back that telling me he had a crush on me was downright inappropriate considering the circumstances. I called Rex at college and tried to talk to him about the state of his fathers competence and he disagreed with me and told me that his dad was fine and just "stubborn" when I asked him why he kept writing to Tatyana while facing trial.

So I alienated Cyndi and Rex as well as Ed and really pissed a huge number of people off by mentioning all the things that didnt make sense with the " setup story". I'm paying the price to this day for telling the truth about what I thought.

I had even talked to a fellow WN who is a psychiatrist and had visited Ed in the fall right before his near death in November and he had called me to ask if I knew " what was wrong with Ed". Ed had recently called me and had come up with the idea to have my husband and I going "on the road" as a traveling band ala the Von Trapp family with costumes and everything... I thought he was talking nonsense. So in my opinion something was going on with him way back before his heart failure. I feel that it must have been obvious to his family since it was obvious to both Dr Chuck and I and we only talked to Ed infrequently.

So I did tell Ed his story didnt sound reasonable and all that did was make me the bad guy.
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Old September 21st, 2014 #70
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I don't even say "insanity" in regard to Steele. Nowadays the standard for "insanity" as a defense for committing a crime is impossibly high. You can believe that you are demonically possessed and still not qualify for not guilty by reason of insanity. Why? Because you knew that what you were doing was wrong, even though from your perspective a demon was forcing you to do it.

I say diminished capacity. I have two lawyers who say that this was the defense that Steele should have attempted.
Why do you have two lawyers? Are you preparing yourself for a "diminished capacity" defense?
 
Old September 22nd, 2014 #71
Hadding
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Well you might not expect it but I did confront Ed about it early and often. Honestly Don and I were some of the first people to contact Ed and his family and try to convince them that his story of the "mission impossible " set up was impossible to believe.
Good on you. "One of the first," because Jim Giles and I had written to Steele in July 2010 and Steele responded with a letter dated 1 August 2010 endorsing the suggestion that he might not have been in his right mind.

Quote:
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I had even talked to a fellow WN who is a psychiatrist and had visited Ed in the fall right before his near death in November and he had called me to ask if I knew " what was wrong with Ed". Ed had recently called me and had come up with the idea to have my husband and I going "on the road" as a traveling band ala the Von Trapp family with costumes and everything... I thought he was talking nonsense. So in my opinion something was going on with him way back before his heart failure.
Yes Steele showed some odd tendencies even before the ruptured aortic aneurysm in November 2009. He seemed a bit paranoid going back several years. Then, in that period from late 2009 through May 2010 he had a lot of weird things going on with him medically. I am thinking that he may have had an undetected stroke before the big ruptured aneurysm, and a stroke can alter someone's personality. He was also using a lot of drugs, mostly prescription-drugs that he was abusing (as he admitted in his letter to Giles) although he also wrote a blog-entry about LSD that would not leave a reasonable person much doubt that he had tried it. LSD can certainly cause some changes in attitudes. That's what it's supposed to do.

So, there are various possible theories, but one thing that is clear is that his judgment as of June 2010 was extremely poor, notwithstanding the fact that he could still speak and write clearly. Discounting his laughable "Mission Impossible" story, being not in his right mind is the only explanation left, and it totally fits.

It's too bad that the medical approach to his case wasn't seriously pursued so that he could have had a defense of diminished capacity.

Is there going to be an autopsy? It would be interesting to know what was going on with his brain. Apparently he was stark raving mad at the end.

Last edited by Hadding; September 22nd, 2014 at 12:33 AM.
 
Old September 22nd, 2014 #72
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Why do you have two lawyers? Are you preparing yourself for a "diminished capacity" defense?
No, wiseacre. I have two lawyers as friends.
 
Old September 22nd, 2014 #73
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
You give it a fucking rest. You idiots wasted shitloads of time, energy, and money that is gone forever.

You might want to learn not to do it again.
Don't cry about a tiny slice of wasted pie. Cook more pie.
 
Old September 22nd, 2014 #74
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Don't cry about a tiny slice of wasted pie. Cook more pie.
Yeah right, cuz

(1) WN has resources to burn and

(2) failing to make efficient use of what you have is always the path to victory.
 
Old September 23rd, 2014 #75
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Yeah right, cuz

(1) WN has resources to burn and

(2) failing to make efficient use of what you have is always the path to victory.
Right now WN has almost no resources. The Steele defense was able to raise money because he was a known personality with a following. Your fantasies that this money might have done more good elsewhere assume that it would have been donated to another WN cause. More likely it would have been kept by the donors. If you want to redirect WN resources you need to become at least as effective as Steele as communicating instead of working around the clock to be a pedantic scold.

Just a helpful hint.
 
Old September 23rd, 2014 #76
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Right now WN has almost no resources. The Steele defense was able to raise money because he was a known personality with a following. Your fantasies that this money might have done more good elsewhere assume that it would have been donated to another WN cause. More likely it would have been kept by the donors. If you want to redirect WN resources you need to become at least as effective as Steele as communicating instead of working around the clock to be a pedantic scold.

Just a helpful hint.
That's a BIG FAT ASSUMPTION.

How do you know that some of the people who donated to Steele don't regularly donate to other things? I think some of them do. I am acquainted with people who have surplus income and do regularly donate to racial efforts that they consider worthwhile. How do you know that none of them redirected their donations in order to help Steele?

Even if the money that was donated to Steele hadn't been donated elsewhere, some of it might have been spent on merchandise such as, I don't know, racist books?

Spending it on anything of even marginal value, whether related to the cause or not, would have been better than wasting it. A child could see that.

That the money was wasted cannot be disputed. Why would you be okay with wasting money like that?

And it wasn't just money. As I also mentioned, there was a huge waste of time and energy over this Steele case.

And then there's the fact that WN is made to look idiotic to the rest of the world with this kind of craziness. And this went on for four years. In fact there are certain individuals still trying to keep it going.

It's a gigantic negative, but if WNs spend a large portion of their time, energy, and money chasing their own tails, that's just fine with you?

Can you see the stupidity of your position?

I suppose not.

Last edited by Hadding; September 23rd, 2014 at 09:43 AM.
 
Old September 23rd, 2014 #77
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And it wasn't just money. As I also mentioned, there was a huge waste of time and energy over this Steele case.
How much more time are you planning on wasting on it?
 
Old September 23rd, 2014 #78
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"LSD"...if true, that could explain a lot.

I only glanced at the case occasionally, but every time I did, there was some incomprehensible weirdness being reported.

It always seemed odd to me that any handyman (and am I wrong that that particular handyman had a previous record?) would be entrusted with constructing a secret hide-away for a very valuable coin collection. But maybe that seems odd only in hindsight.
 
Old September 23rd, 2014 #79
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"LSD"...if true, that could explain a lot.

I only glanced at the case occasionally, but every time I did, there was some incomprehensible weirdness being reported.

It always seemed odd to me that any handyman (and am I wrong that that particular handyman had a previous record?) would be entrusted with constructing a secret hide-away for a very valuable coin collection. But maybe that seems odd only in hindsight.
From Edgar Steele's Nickel Rant of 16 November 2009:
I honestly believe that if we were to add a little LSD to the water supply every Monday morning, war and discord of every sort would vanish from the face of the Globe. Did you know that LSD is chemically identical to a substance produced in exceedingly small quantities in the human brain, by the way? http://www.nickelrant.com/rants/091116rant.htm
Steele is telling us there that he loves LSD, that LSD is good for you. That's earlier in the same month that Steele had his ruptured aortic aneurysm. I wonder if Steele was on acid when Dr. Ellis visited him.

But LSD is probably relatively innocuous, in terms of disruption of mental function, compared to Ambien, which Steele listed in his letter to Giles as one of the drugs that he had been abusing.
 
Old January 22nd, 2020 #80
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Yes, an old case and an old thread. But I've always wondered if any solid evidence has ever come out as to whether or not Edgar Steele was "Jeffrey Epstein-ed" in his cell?


 
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