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Old January 22nd, 2011 #1
Alex Linder
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[found this on alternativeright.com in comments section]

parmenicleitus 10 months ago in reply to James Kalb

Mr. Kalb-

Thank you for the reply.

Well, OK, at least you have it out in the open that you desire a Catholic Christian "alternative right." As it is, I see nothing in this that's "alternative" to the progressive social manipulation popular at present, as this is really what you are offering. It's simply rearranging the deck-chairs.

First, no where did I say anything about "returning to the egg," nor did I deny the fact that (some) "pagan" Greeks developed cosmopolitan ideals or that "spirit" was opposed to flesh, or that I think Germanic warbands are a better

alternative, or a way of life for all of us of Euro-descent. What I did say is that the contexts for these to arise were different than what Catholic Christianity proposes (Universalist ideology) and that culture by its very definition offers the very things you seek without the social engineering of ideologies. Simply put, there was, and is, no such movement called "Paganism." Indigenous cultures were just that, rooted in a place, not idea; and plural, while remaining related in some very basic concepts. Such a monolithic characterization is that of the Christians themselves, not of pre-Christian peoples of Europe, or us *un-Christian* people at present. Christianity is anti-cultural, since it evaluates abstraction as superior and operates from the top down. Cultures are rooted,
literally, and climb upward, with abstractions, well, abstracted from a ground of collective experience in-the-world amongst a people in a place. Again, cultures are not founded in "ideas" or "beliefs." That is ideology.

Your assumption that I desire a "return to the egg," of course, evinces the linear time concepts of Christian eschatology on which your faith depends, even as enmeshed as it has become with Aristotelian teleology. In a word, it is a concept of "progress" and the very root of the modern sense of that term. It doesn't follow, however, that because I reject this notion of time and history, that I subscribe to a simple circular "Eternal Recurrence of the Same" either, as time is neither wholly objective or subjective but an interweaving of both, and as such, is highly depended upon culture. Teleology/Eschatology are not, an never have been, the only game in town. Time, like the hierarchies in Alex Kurtagic's latest piece, isn't a singular phenomenon. Rome doesn't set the clock we all dance to.

The strange thing here, is that given your own concept of time, (expressed presently as a denial of an ovarian return) and the Catholic Church's inconsistency and "progress," you cannot return to Medieval Catholicism or any
other such "traditional" phase as might be imagined. The fact of the matter is, your source of "authority" has changed its views on numerous occasions regarding various issues and begs the question of whether or not Catholicism, despite its very name, really represents a consistent "tradition" at all outside the wavering inconsistencies on parade in the name of the "Universal Church".

Cultures are not ideas, they are not abstractions, but the very meeting place, the very world, you are postulating without the need of Catholicism or any of the Abrahamic faiths to justify their existence. Cultures do not require a universal faith, yet such faith is actually parasitic upon culture. Cultures are the very worlds of men, and developed quite apart from Christianity and predate it. Christianity could never have developed without cultures, and has always held an ambivalent attitude toward that essential part of humans. Catholicism will continue to reinterpret its role according to cultural values, and for us, reinterpret what it means to be of European descent, being the ideology that it is.

As such, it will not be long before the office of the Pontiff Maximus will be filled with an Black African or Hispanic, and the air will abound with hermeneutical apologia defending the "authoritative," but sanctimonious, separation of the man from the office, but in such a case, you will be further distancing the Church from Europe and actual Europeans. European identities (and those of their descendent's) will be relegated to the realm of abstract ideas. Once again, universalist ideology trumps place, people, and culture...As such, your proffered "alternative" is a well-worn, well-trodden path that is, indeed, circular. We're where we are because of it.

Catholicism does not get to set up the parameters of what constitutes "religion," (culture, really) and decide upon based on the scales of those self-serving parameters, what constitutes "true" religion. Such a dilemma as "true" and "false" religion is, in itself, silly, and based upon the artifice of abstraction, namely that religion can be abstracted from a living culture.


I don't reject European civilization, nor am I positing a revisionist past presuming that there's been no Christianity. Nothing is further from my mind. My point is that the path of ideology is well-worn, that Christianity is an ideology, that ideology can't be equated to culture, and that an "alternative right" is not alternative at all, if we continue to follow an anti-cultural ideology. Christianity, a universal ideology, has always piggy-backed culture to give it some manner of coherency (which I think is little), not the other way around.

While I would agree with you the Christianity was heavily Hellenized, I would also submit that it was heavily Romanized and Germanized. The Romans provided the means of an expansive, Imperium that coincided with Christianity's
inherent evangelism, which they freely adopted in becoming a State religion. The Germanic qualities of native industriousness, adventure, and spirited bellicosity, and even some governing institutions, have always underlaid European success, though little credit is given them, perhaps in penalty of not converting on time (i.e. the Vikings) in the name of their "progress."

All the above concessions only serve to demonstrate the inconsistency, incoherency and opportunistic features that have gone into creating the fog that is Christianity.




parmenicleitus 10 months ago

I believe I can see the push for this to become a Christian "alternative right" in this piece, even while I agree with many of the premises and respect Mr. Kalb and some of his writing.

That fact of the matter is, that while Christians bemoan "secular rationality," it is their very theology that dominates the day, and has led to where we are, namely "secular rationality." The whole split between "secular" and "spiritual" is, in turn, based in a dual ontology and given voice in Matthew 22: 21-22, or, as one study put it, it made possible the notion of the "Kings Two Bodies."

Theocracy is the split side of this coin. For a "spiritual authority" to gain power over what is ostensibly "un-spiritual," or namely "secular," is, of course, yet another way of giving credence to the very theology and ontology in question. In short, both "secularism" and "theocracy" are derived from the same source.

There was, and is, a possibility, in our "pagan" roots, which through Christian libel has been relegated to so-called "nature" worship (whatever that means). The ancient Hellenes centered their lives around the hearth (Hestia) both in their homes (oikos) and their cities (polis). This bound the people not only as families, but as a culture, a political unit, with *real* religion (to be bound together) focused always around and through Hestia.

Thus, while private and public were distinct, they were always bound together organically, as were the particular and general. The fussiness regarding them began when "logos" was torn away from "mythos" (even while in reality it remained a "mythos" in itself) and became even more exacerbated with logos was torn from the Kosmos itself finding its "origin" in the "Absolutely Other".

This was mirrored in Rome as well. Traditionalist Christians, and Christians in general, harp on about the family, yet had no compunction destroying the basis of Roman religion which was founded directly, like the Hellenes, in and upon the family. Like the Hellenes, the Romans had a hearth in both their homes and in their City (Vesta). All in all, religion, by definition, was destroyed in favor an ideology, which co-opted the term "religion" and transformed from family life to "universal children of God." "Secularism" has simply come to call it "humanity." "Religion" became a "bond" of ideas to be spoken (logos) rather than anything to do with "physis" (coming into being, growth, etymologically tied to the word "be."). As such Christianity is an ideo-logos, giving precedence to idea and speech over phenomena and imagery.

As this article has demonstrated, Christians feel no compulsion in utilizing de-contextualized "pagan" thought as it suits them...again, all things to all men. Plato did believe in a split between the "idea" and "mere physis," but it was always in context of *both* being in the same Kosmos (world-order). Christianity believes in a complete split between "natura" (a horrible translation of "physis") and an infinite, absolute "spiritus" which is ultimately unworldly and completely disengaged and separate from the world of "natura." At the end of the day, these are different ontologies, and don't necessarily add up to the same thing. In so saying, I also don't hold in high estimation the seemingly common assumption that Plato was somehow equivalent to a "Pope of Paganism". He simply didn't speak for all "pagan" thought, no matter how influential he was or remains. Life is simply more than matters of "thought" and "belief."

My point is that Christian ontological speculation and theology have ruled the day and have led to the very crisis in which we find ourselves. While on the surface Christians, such as Mr. Kalb and Patrick Ford, bemoan the same "secular rationality" as many who are undecided or already inclined to a more "polytheist" attitude, what they are really offering is a more reified solidification of the very metaphysical presumptions that led to this crisis in the first place: namely an ontologically dualist monolatry from the East.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #2
Alex Linder
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parmenicleitus 10 months ago

I could only expect this much from Christians: more lying. All things to all men indeed.

First, your sense of history is rather, well, lacking. While it is undeniable that Christians stopped Islam from spreading into Europe, it seems you have no understanding of Islam, even in plain historicity. Christianity pre-dates Islam, and is tied to it. Christianity was the State religion of the Byzantine Empire through which Muhammad traveled and traded as a merchant. Islam is a reaction to what was perceived as both Christian and Jewish decadence, from yet another Abrahamic and yes, Semitic, perspective. But, the real meat is that if there were no Judaism, there'd be no Christianity, and hence no Islam. So, your point regarding who stopped Islam's advance is circular at best. None of the monotheisms like competition, after all, though Judaism is historically more or less indifferent to other religions.

Secondly, the main feature of monotheism in general, and Abrahamic "religion" in particular, is intolerance. No. I'm not speaking of "oppressed" women, minorities, etc. It is the distinction between "true" and "false" religion to which I refer. No such nonsense existed from a "pagan" perspective. Again, monotheism doesn't like competition, even within its own ranks.

Third, there is no such thing as "paganism" for it never was an "-ism," in the sense of a monolithic bloc.

Following from this, "paganism" isn't a "nature" religion as you (with your Wiccan Moon-Goddess crap), and your Hebraic-minded forebears couldn't, and can't, seem to understand. Religions, in the truest since of the word ("to bind together") was embedded in , and inseparable from, the cultures (in the truest, rock-bottom sense of *that* term) unlike Christianity which is an ideology which masquerades as "religion," but can't understand the fact that culture/religion isn't based in "ideas." While there are certain central features consistent in Indo-European religions (stemming, of course, from their shared Indo-European origin) the varieties of outlook on those themes came from, and comes from, the very places that IE's settle and live. Christianity, being an ideology, is u-topic, it has no place, but that doesn't mean it transcends place. It has simply subverted place for idea, a people for "belief".

It must be said, as well, that these various cultures had no teleological/eschatological "purpose." They were simply lived. Religion was, and is, the living of men, not a set of "beliefs" or a "faith."

Christianity had its day and nearly every failure of the "West" (again, an idea) can be pointed back to it. Christianity has opened the floodgates to, and created, "humanity" in a way that European polytheism never could, or would. Egalitarianism, the cult of the "individual," bureaucracy, the "anything goes" attitude, the myth of "progress," ( from Christian eschatology) multiculturalism, etc, can all find their origins in the cult of Christ, and its ever-shifting reinterpretation and subjectivity. The cult of Christ is, at rock bottom, anti-cultural, anti-family, anti-topic (being the universalistic screed that it is), appending itself however it could, and can, gain the most followers. I'm certain the hermeneutic atmosphere will be thick with apologia when you Catholics get your first black African Pope...But, then again, the "West," and Europe, are simply *ideas* that can be borne within by anyone "chosen by God", Belloc notwithstanding.

All in all, you have no clue of what you are talking about and Christianity has nothing left to offer us...except hope and change. Whoop-tee-doo!

And, no, I don't slaughter goats in the name of Thor. My gods aren't jealous little Middle Eastern tyrants who demand my worship before all else, if at all most of the time...
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #3
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Thor Odinson 10 months ago

Jesus preached tolerance of evil (i.e., Turn the other cheek, refusing to answer Pilate's charges, telling Peter to not strike his captors with his sword, surrendering without fighting his captors, etc).

Thor, one of the traditional "pagan" gods of Norse mythology--through example, not by mere words(!)--taught that evil should be defeated (i.e., Thor is the champion of slaying wicked trolls, Thor led legions of warriors to battle against the Sons of Musspell at Ragnarok, etc).

Jesus is best represented by his body, which he sacrificed by refusing to fight. Thor is best represented by his hammer, which he uses to slaughter the enemies of his people.

Which ethos is commendable? Which ethos will save the West? The one that accepts perversion and tolerates evil, or the one that preaches that it should be eradicated?

I submit to you that Christianity is going to be the ruin of the West, just as it was for the Roman Empire (i.e., Christians refused to fight and the Germanic peoples--the followers of Donner/Thor--destroyed Rome).

Worship Jesus all you want; all I ask is that you not get in the way of those of us who will actually defend Western civilization.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #4
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Proud Christian 10 months ago in reply to Thor Odinson

Who are you to question Yahweh? If it is His plan that His son be killed, so be it. If it is His plan that the West falls, so be it. Sacrifice and not retaliating are honorable to Christians like me.

We should disregard mere political issues and focus on worshipping Jesus. What happens on earth doesn't matter so long as it doesn't interfere with our going to heaven.

We need to support Israel, because that is the right thing to do. Down with the Muslims!
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #5
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“Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism.” -- Oswald Spengler
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
“Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism.” -- Oswald Spengler
Bolshevism is wholly and totally a Jewish creation with Judaism as its foundation. The above quote is utter nonsense.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #7
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Bolshevism is wholly and totally a Jewish creation with Judaism as its foundation.
So is your christ cult.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #8
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Default ". . .What happens on earth doesn't matter. . ."

There you have it, evil pretending to be good. A rationalized escapism- they can't be bothered with these lower realms.

". . .What happens on earth doesn't matter. . ."

It doesn't get any clearer than this.

If christians should love enemies, and the main enemy is Satan, then it follows that christians should love the devil. . .oh but they do- the kike. . .

". . .What happens on earth doesn't matter. . ."

Six words telling us all we need to know. . .
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #9
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Alex seems to be obsessed with this topic.

The Greeks, Romans (+ Roman Citizens), and Vikings gave up on their pagan religion.

By the time the first Christian evangelists showed up in Greece, the Greek intellectuals already considered their tribal Gods to be myths. The Romans did the same.

By the time the Roman republic fell, the Roman priests were considered a joke, marriage was in decline, divorce was easy, and they stopped having babies (sound familiar). Augustus Caesar tried to fix this but it was too late.

There was massive apathy in spiritual matters in the late Roman Empire and the citizens looked to the Orientals for salvation. The most popular were the Cult of Isis, Cult of Mithra, and Cult of Jesus Christ. All of them Oriental cults. Of course, we know which cult won out and became the official religion of Western Civilization.

The Vikings peacefully converted over time as well. There was no military expedition into Scandinavia from the Christians. The Christians of Europe barely had a standing military in their lands (during the time of Vikings), and of course, this made them easy prey to Viking raids.

The Vikings themselves, considered there to be a supreme unnamed God that would come one day and rule over the world after Asgard fell and the Norse Gods were vanquished. So the ingredients for conversion were already there.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #10
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Thor Odinson 10 months ago

Jesus preached tolerance of evil (i.e., Turn the other cheek, refusing to answer Pilate's charges, telling Peter to not strike his captors with his sword, surrendering without fighting his captors, etc).

Thor, one of the traditional "pagan" gods of Norse mythology--through example, not by mere words(!)--taught that evil should be defeated (i.e., Thor is the champion of slaying wicked trolls, Thor led legions of warriors to battle against the Sons of Musspell at Ragnarok, etc).

Jesus is best represented by his body, which he sacrificed by refusing to fight. Thor is best represented by his hammer, which he uses to slaughter the enemies of his people.

Which ethos is commendable? Which ethos will save the West? The one that accepts perversion and tolerates evil, or the one that preaches that it should be eradicated?

I submit to you that Christianity is going to be the ruin of the West, just as it was for the Roman Empire (i.e., Christians refused to fight and the Germanic peoples--the followers of Donner/Thor--destroyed Rome).

Worship Jesus all you want; all I ask is that you not get in the way of those of us who will actually defend Western civilization.
The Norse people were also taught that their Gods would be eventually defeated by evil (the Giants). The Norse knew that Asgard would fall and Valhalla would be no more. Although the Norse Gods were heroic and would certainly go down fighting (as a Norse warrior should), they were just too weak to defeat their enemies.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #11
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In any civilization, the majority of people are going to be the cows, the herd animals, of the cattle drivers, they will be humbled by their existance and will hate the attitude and nature of their cattle drivers. The Jews are brilliant in always depicting themselves as cattle, so that the cattle with identify with them. They are the wolves in sheeps clothing, internet white racists are the sheep in wolves clothing.

These ancient pagan religions were cruel and merciless to their weak, people with diseases and frailties, they murdered, enslaved, used for games and target practice, these people would naturally clasp to Christianity, out of a yearning for a sense of self worth.

The protocols of zion, mention how the goy leaders lord it over their people, it's the vanity and stupid arrogance of the goyim leadership that always brings their civilizations down, and will bring down the US as well. The US congress is addicted to spending their serf's money, til they are all in debt bondage, and when they can't pay,we can guess they will try to slaughter them all like cattle. How many Jews voted on all these spending bills in Congress? A few. Most of them are just white jerks though.

Not that I believe in honesty. Just saying. The jews are the most deceitful people on the face of the earth, and that is why they are successful. Intelligence in the natural world is used by lifeforms, primarily for the purpose of deceiving one's prey, or their predators, either to attack, or escape. "Lying" is what all lifeforms do, they camoflouge themselves, in order to decieve. It is always legal for governments to lie to their people, but it is always illegal for the people to lie to their government.

Trust is important, but fear and respect for authority is more important. A cowardly nation of People, such as the US, don't necessarily have to trust their government, they just need to fear it. They are told to their stupid faces there were no WMD in Iraq, as if Bush just had to unzip and unload on their face, just to spite them. That is why people love Christianity, and hate their Goyim leaders, because they are dicks, and Jesus seems so nice.
 
Old January 22nd, 2011 #12
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Bolshevism is wholly and totally a Jewish creation with Judaism as its foundation. The above quote is utter nonsense.
From the murder of the Czar and his family, all the way until Stalin's Jewish doctors spiked his vodka with coumadin.
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Old January 22nd, 2011 #13
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We should disregard mere political issues and focus on worshipping Jesus. What happens on earth doesn't matter so long as it doesn't interfere with our going to heaven.
I'd be okay with taxing churches if I was certain the government wouldn't import even more bluegums, than the churches had been.
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Old January 22nd, 2011 #14
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Originally Posted by procopius View Post
The Norse people were also taught that their Gods would be eventually defeated by evil (the Giants). The Norse knew that Asgard would fall and Valhalla would be no more. Although the Norse Gods were heroic and would certainly go down fighting (as a Norse warrior should), they were just too weak to defeat their enemies.
And the gold-grubbing dwarves were metaphors for the Jews, undermining the culture from beneath in secret.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #15
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Many thinking themselves wise and intelligent in their own eyes can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that the modern day Jew is not the same people as the Israelites of the Bible.

The majority of the Bible of was already written before the first Jew appeared on the scene. Additionally, there are at least five (5) definitions for the term 'Jew' in the English Bible although the term isn't found in the original manuscripts.

Cyrus Scofield is responsible for the idea of dispensationalism which is the foundation for this 'Jews are God's chosen' nonsense.

It's too bad some of your parents were defects and did something to your fragile ego as a child that now causes you to hate Christianity and Christians with a vengeance. None of you can find any fault with me because of my Christian faith and I have proven many times over that I am most certainly pro-White.

It was an atheist who raised money for Alex's bail in Knoxville and then took off with that money. It was a Christian (me) who searched long and hard for a lawyer for Alex and did everything in my power to help Alex during the bogus criminal proceedings being waged against him in Knoxville.

I was the only one that was by Alex's side during his first court appearance. I did all I could to help him stay out of jail and navigate the jewdicial system so he didn't wind up in a nigger infested jail like I did based on bogus charges and perjured testimony from nigger cops like I did.

You Christian bashers need to reconsider your position. There are just as many ignorant, go along to get along non-Christians that are just as responsible for anything you blame Christians for.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #16
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Furthermore, when I saw Craig Cobb in those videos in Montana I took three hours off of work that I badly needed in order to go shopping for him. I lost money that I could have made absent my looking all over town for wool socks and thermal underwear.

I could have made roughly $300 in those three hours I spent on Craig but felt sorry for him and went shopping at my earliest convenience. Additionally, I put out roughly $100 on the package I sent to Craig in Montana.

This White Christian man did that.

And I don't have to tell you that I'll defend my Rights either. Most of you know about the incident wherein four kwops broke into my home attempting to beat the hell out of me and the 12g shotgun they got in response.

If you were in a really bad situation I guarantee you that most of you would want me by your side and I doubt you'd care that I were a Christian either.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #17
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Furthermore, when I saw Craig Cobb in those videos in Montana I took three hours off of work that I badly needed in order to go shopping for him. I lost money that I could have made absent my looking all over town for wool socks and thermal underwear.

I could have made roughly $300 in those three hours I spent on Craig but felt sorry for him and went shopping at my earliest convenience. Additionally, I put out roughly $100 on the package I sent to Craig in Montana.

This White Christian man did that.

And I don't have to tell you that I'll defend my Rights either. Most of you know about the incident wherein four kwops broke into my home attempting to beat the hell out of me and the 12g shotgun they got in response.

If you were in a really bad situation I guarantee you that most of you would want me by your side and I doubt you'd care that I were a Christian either.
No problem, OTPTT. I'm just wondering what happened to an earlier post I made on this thread. That it's missing sucks.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #18
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Many thinking themselves wise and intelligent in their own eyes can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that the modern day Jew is not the same people as the Israelites of the Bible.


I don't know how wise and intelligent I am, but that is just laughable.
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Last edited by Donnie in Ohio; January 23rd, 2011 at 05:49 AM.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #19
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Not only is the Christ Cult a problem, the Jesus Movement is a problem as well-- perhaps the bigger problem.

The historical Jesus was an anti-Goyim Jewish ethnonationalist who tried to affect a holy apocalypse that would consume all non-Jews. Internalizing that-- making someone who hated you and longed for your fiery destruction into an inner-dwelling manifestation of God, having swallowed the propaganda line that he was a gentle universalist philosopher-- is a psychological cancer, the problem of the last 2000 years.
 
Old January 23rd, 2011 #20
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all ideologies are bullshit strategies for power. Everything a person pretends to believe in is simply a strategy for gaining power, prestige, status, import, reverence, deferment. Christianity is no different than any other ideology. If it has power, then it is a good thing. Power is the only thing you CAN worship. It doesn't make any sense to NOT worship power, because to worship powerlessness is insane and illogical.

At least Christianity recognizes that nobody likes OTHER people who worship power and so teaches us to use reverse psychology and behave as if we are NOT powerful. Jesus did not come as a powerful figure, but as a meek, humble one, with massive, unbelievable fucking power of spirit.
 
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