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Old November 18th, 2006 #41
Kievsky
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You guys shouldn't be offended by Sutter. This is just a message board. He is absolutely harmless. The only power Sutter has is what you give him.

I give him credit for this -- he is an effective idea-vortex for those who let themselves be drawn into this idea-vortex. But he is powerless in the face of those who don't take it personally what he says, like me.

Shame on him, too, he spilled the beans about the "secret forum." Bad bad Sutter. Loose lips sink ships. And he's pretending that I've got a dark secret about the fact that I mentioned on this "secret forum" that in the summer of 2001 I mentioned to my violin teacher that I thought there would be a huge terrorist attack on NYC, and when she asked when, I answered "within three months." I'm not ashamed of this. It happened, and it's kind of interesting. I felt something big was coming, and I vocalized it to another person.

Sutter wants attention. His daddy was mean to him (as he admitted) and he is unable to maintain a relationship with a woman (all too common). So he comes on this board and looks for any possible vulnerability, and looks to exploit that.

This is actually useful for any of us. If and when the SPLC slings mud at you, it's going to be similar to what Morris Dees or One Peoples Project says about you. Daryl Jenkins great criticism of me is that I advocate opening a business instead of wage labor, which is nothing more than what millions of Pakistanis and Chinese here are doing. I am prejudiced against being a wage slave, and in favor of being an entrepreneur. Sutter writes as though this is a terrible moral failing, "Oy vey, look at him, he's an advocate of laziness!"

It's reminiscent of the SPLC calling Prussian Blue "playing on out of tune instruments." The SPLC looks for any possible mud to sling at White nationalists who stick their neck out. Sutter does quite the same.

Not to compare Sutter with Morris Dees, of course. Dees gets paid for what he does. Sutter does it because he's extremely lonely and terribly conflicted.

At any given time in the Movement there will be a few people on your radar screen who are clearly afflicted with psychological/emotional type problems, and they will do things to get your attention such as attacking you or threatening you (Sutter never threatened me, but others did).

You just have to understand, "This person is emotionally disturbed" and not get mad at him. He's here because the White nationalist movement is unfortunately one of those places that emotionally disturbed people go looking for some human contact. Look at Patler, who killed Rockwell. It's very common.

Anyway, I hope you find some way to lessen your pain, Sutter. I hope your children grow up OK, I hope your restraining order expires, I hope you get visitation with your kids, I hope you have mutually rewarding visitation with your children, I hope you find a job where your boss doesn't torture you. I basically see you as a wanderer who stopped in here, and will eventually move on. I've been in the Movement for 6 years. I've seen a lot of guys like you come and go. I think you should get counseling and try to have rewarding face to face human relationships. I don't think you are of any value to what we are trying to accomplish here. You are here to get some emotional satisfaction, to "get off" so to speak, to verbally spooge on us.

But you know, it's a big world. I don't imagine that you are the worst person in the world. You may yet find a place in this life. But you should focus on fixing yourself. We're just fine. We don't need your tikkun olam. It's misdirected. Sutter, heal thyself.

No hard feelings. Mental illness is not something any of us should take personally. It is what it is.
 
Old November 18th, 2006 #42
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No one should be posting on a public forum personal info, or other info gleaned from outside sources, about any other WN, for any reason, period.
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Old November 18th, 2006 #43
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RE: AS

Quote:
If you've bought into Jewish psychology be happy with it.
Psychology can be looked at from a number of different angles. I surmise that you are looking from the position that psychology is a bunch of hogwash used by clever jews to twist the thinking of White people and bilk us out of money at the same time.......And you’d be right.

Another way to look at the jew’s use of psychology is as the ultimate weapon employed by the jew against us. The jew is fascinated and obsessed with psychology as many WNs are with sniper rifles, much for the same reasons. The jew has learned what makes us tick and they know how to press our buttons. And they also know how to drive the herd over the cliff willingly to their deaths. Witness much of the discussion regarding resentment for the lemmings and for ZOG’s soldiers on this board.

It is the jew who wants to keep us ignorant of the psychological processes and manipulations thereof. After all, why would they want us to know how to pull the trigger on a such an awesome stealth weapon that has no criminal penalties associated with it for using it against an enemy?

I would encourage any thinking WN to educate themselves to the weapon of psychology that is being used against us by the jew. Keeping in mind that nearly all of the study material is written by jews for jews. Nevertheless, the astute WN can read between the lines and gain empowerment that will surely enhance his ability to be more productive in this, our struggle.

.
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Old November 18th, 2006 #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky
You guys shouldn't be offended by Sutter. This is just a message board. He is absolutely harmless. The only power Sutter has is what you give him.

I give him credit for this -- he is an effective idea-vortex for those who let themselves be drawn into this idea-vortex. But he is powerless in the face of those who don't take it personally what he says, like me.

Shame on him, too, he spilled the beans about the "secret forum." Bad bad Sutter. Loose lips sink ships. And he's pretending that I've got a dark secret about the fact that I mentioned on this "secret forum" that in the summer of 2001 I mentioned to my violin teacher that I thought there would be a huge terrorist attack on NYC, and when she asked when, I answered "within three months." I'm not ashamed of this. It happened, and it's kind of interesting. I felt something big was coming, and I vocalized it to another person.

Sutter wants attention. His daddy was mean to him (as he admitted) and he is unable to maintain a relationship with a woman (all too common). So he comes on this board and looks for any possible vulnerability, and looks to exploit that.

This is actually useful for any of us. If and when the SPLC slings mud at you, it's going to be similar to what Morris Dees or One Peoples Project says about you. Daryl Jenkins great criticism of me is that I advocate opening a business instead of wage labor, which is nothing more than what millions of Pakistanis and Chinese here are doing. I am prejudiced against being a wage slave, and in favor of being an entrepreneur. Sutter writes as though this is a terrible moral failing, "Oy vey, look at him, he's an advocate of laziness!"

It's reminiscent of the SPLC calling Prussian Blue "playing on out of tune instruments." The SPLC looks for any possible mud to sling at White nationalists who stick their neck out. Sutter does quite the same.

Not to compare Sutter with Morris Dees, of course. Dees gets paid for what he does. Sutter does it because he's extremely lonely and terribly conflicted.

At any given time in the Movement there will be a few people on your radar screen who are clearly afflicted with psychological/emotional type problems, and they will do things to get your attention such as attacking you or threatening you (Sutter never threatened me, but others did).

You just have to understand, "This person is emotionally disturbed" and not get mad at him. He's here because the White nationalist movement is unfortunately one of those places that emotionally disturbed people go looking for some human contact. Look at Patler, who killed Rockwell. It's very common.

Anyway, I hope you find some way to lessen your pain, Sutter. I hope your children grow up OK, I hope your restraining order expires, I hope you get visitation with your kids, I hope you have mutually rewarding visitation with your children, I hope you find a job where your boss doesn't torture you. I basically see you as a wanderer who stopped in here, and will eventually move on. I've been in the Movement for 6 years. I've seen a lot of guys like you come and go. I think you should get counseling and try to have rewarding face to face human relationships. I don't think you are of any value to what we are trying to accomplish here. You are here to get some emotional satisfaction, to "get off" so to speak, to verbally spooge on us.

But you know, it's a big world. I don't imagine that you are the worst person in the world. You may yet find a place in this life. But you should focus on fixing yourself. We're just fine. We don't need your tikkun olam. It's misdirected. Sutter, heal thyself.

No hard feelings. Mental illness is not something any of us should take personally. It is what it is.

As to the secret forum, there was nothing secret about it. It's originator had talked it about for months here before its formation. As for being someone who is moving on you are right - I'm not sticking around this insane asylum, this bizarre sub-culture. This sub-culture is on par with those who believe they are werewolves and vampires.

I'm not debating this with you. It's like going into the crazy house and being mistaken for one of the nuts and not being allowed to leave.
 
Old November 18th, 2006 #45
Kievsky
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Default Permission to leave granted, Mr. Sutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustus Sutter
As to the secret forum, there was nothing secret about it. It's originator had talked it about for months here before its formation. As for being someone who is moving on you are right - I'm not sticking around this insane asylum, this bizarre sub-culture. This sub-culture is on par with those who believe they are werewolves and vampires.

I'm not debating this with you. It's like going into the crazy house and being mistaken for one of the nuts and not being allowed to leave.
Go in peace Sutter. May you find people compatible with what you seek.
 
Old November 18th, 2006 #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
No one should be posting on a public forum personal info, or other info gleaned from outside sources, about any other WN, for any reason, period.
Yep, and Freeman calls Sutter a nut. Who writes a 12 paragraph hatchet job on a guys personal life? Fuckin pathetic.
 
Old November 18th, 2006 #47
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Originally Posted by Kievsky
Go in peace Sutter. May you find people compatible with what you seek.
I don't need your permission you candy-assed lunatic.
 
Old November 18th, 2006 #48
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Impartial observance:

I don't have a horse in this one, but the Psych 101 skits being played by the lunatics on Sutter is way fuckin' Jewy. Actually, it epitomizes the word.
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Old November 18th, 2006 #49
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RE: Intrepid
Quote:
Impartial observance:

I don't have a horse in this one, but the Psych 101 skits being played by the lunatics on Sutter is way fuckin' Jewy. Actually, it epitomizes the word.
Put your horse back in the barn. My kidding around with August Sutter was obviously tongue in cheek and not to be taken seriously. Actually I don’t mind his caustic humor. If he's trying to stir things up, that's OK, too. I'm sure he's smart enough to know where to draw the line or when to put the cork back in the bottle.

Having said that, how do you feel about psychological warfare? Is it real or are we all just lunatics imagining things?
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Old November 19th, 2006 #50
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Default Psychology has a time and a place

When someone picks a fight with you out of nowhere, which happens not frequently, but regularly, then it's time to ask "what is making this person tick?"

Generally it's attention-seeking. People are lonely. That's why they are on a message board, instead of finding real life experiences in the three dimensional world.

If you do ever find yourself organizing in the three dimensional world, you will run across people who pick fights with you, similar to the above with Sutter and Steve B.

When this happens, you have a choice -- escalate the fight, or use psychology. There isn't really a third choice that I know of.

What then generally happens is this person picks fights with other people too. I don't know if Sutter picks fights with others or not, but I think it likely.

At that point (in the real life world) you gather the others who were attacked and then you make a consensus decision to expel the troublemaker.

This happened more than once with the Boston Unit of the National Alliance. We streamlined the process for identifying such people and expelling them.

If and when any of you does real world organizing, keep this in mind. Infighting can destroy a social network/collective endeavour real quick, especially in the WN movement. We attract a lot of people who don't know how to meet their emotional needs in society. We have to be ready to deal with this in the real world.

But this is a message board, so it doesn't matter as much. However, I hope Sutter finds better things to do with his life.
 
Old November 19th, 2006 #51
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Arrow Lord Kievsky, lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky
My little organic farm turns out to be a good meeting place for New England White nationalists. Yes, I do occasionally slaughter and butcher a bunny for the grill when my friends come over. So what? It's kind of a survival class thing. Skinning and gutting and cooking a bunny isn't much different from a squirrel or a rat or a cat or a dog. And it's also sort of a fraternity party when I have people over. Why not? It's fun!

I don't think Augustus Sutter has fun. I think his father was very strict and harsh on him, and now he has a job where some asshole boss rides him hard, and Augustus Sutter thinks that this is his lot in life. And if it's his lot in life, then other people having fun and enjoying life and pursuing silly dreams like learning a foreign language or preparing for global apocalypse -- well, that's just sinful and silly and no one should take such a person seriously.
Do you honestly think a normal White man or woman would consider "preparing for global apocalypse" enjoying life, or a silly dream?

I don't want to get into a debate about the prospects for global apocalyspe, but to discuss it as though preparing for catastrophe is some kind of hobby just doesn't sound right...I have no personal objections to the Survivalist lifestyle, or with people who prepare for natural disaster or social anarchy, in some sense it's like an insurance policy, you might take one out but you hope you never need it! But that's entirely different from obsessing over cataclysm, in fact looking forward to it in the same way the xtian rapture bunnies do the end times.

Quote:
Any of us so inclined should strive to be aristocratic, which means to be well read and play a musical instrument and speak some foreign languages, and to pursue eccentric activities such as organic farming and a primitivist critique of modern civilization. Who would you rather be part of the elite, Manhattan jews or people like me?
Well, the elite Manhattan jews will probably monopolize nanorobots capable of disassembling you and your primitive enclave on the molecular level...whereas you will monopolize fresh produce and bags of potatoes...

What you advocate is a lifestyle choice, which is fine, to each his own, but don't confuse that with forging and running a nation in the 21st century, where even the dirtiest shitskins like Pakistanis for example understand the importance of mastering the White Man's Magic, otherwise known as science and technology.

Ironically you advocate Whites return to some kind of primitive agricultural state, whereas the ENTIRE colored world is engaged in developing their industrial, technical and scientific bases. I wonder who the future will belong to...
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Old November 19th, 2006 #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kievsky
When someone picks a fight with you out of nowhere, which happens not frequently, but regularly, then it's time to ask "what is making this person tick?"

Generally it's attention-seeking. People are lonely. That's why they are on a message board, instead of finding real life experiences in the three dimensional world.

If you do ever find yourself organizing in the three dimensional world, you will run across people who pick fights with you, similar to the above with Sutter and Steve B.
I'm not picking a fight with you, your Lordship. I just think you're a goofball.

"Brave..brave, Sir Rob-in". Slayer of the vicious Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.

 
Old November 19th, 2006 #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B
I'm not picking a fight with you, your Lordship. I just think you're a goofball.

"Brave..brave, Sir Rob-in". Slayer of the vicious Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.

That's fine. You're not the only one.

Hey, it's a message board and a web page. I throw my ideas out there. You don't like my ideas, that's fine. I'm not a leader of anyone, I don't collect dues, etc.

I don't care if someone "buys into my ideas" or not. Some of the objections raised here to my ideas have been useful. The vitriol with which some of them are delivered is curious but nothing more. I don't have anything to prove to you guys, and I find the flaming kind of humorous.

It's kind of sad to spend so much time on message boards though, eh? So many thousands of posts . . . life going by outside. Wouldn't it be more fun to trade barbs at the local bar, all in person and shit?
 
Old November 19th, 2006 #54
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Wow, I can't believe how many idiots can be conjured up in just one thread!
How many alleged White thinking people here have actually met Kievsky in person? This guy is top notch and has EXCELLENT ideas about survival in a rapidly deteriorating world.

I hope to God that total destruction doesn't befall us in our lifetimes, but I feel a lot better knowing that there are people like him that are preparing for it.

And I'm able to vouch for his character because I've been with him in the REAL world, and not just from behind the computer screen were most of the net warriors like to dwell.

Oh, and we did have a little White bunny on the menu the last time we met....And we all had a blast! :cheers:
 
Old November 19th, 2006 #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Pride
Wow, I can't believe how many idiots can be conjured up in just one thread!
How many alleged White thinking people here have actually met Kievsky in person? This guy is top notch and has EXCELLENT ideas about survival in a rapidly deteriorating world.
Exactly what is "excellent" about Lord Kievsky's ideas? Let's see, he advocates Whites should emulate their racial inferiors and underlive them by taking on boarders and carpooling, things he doesn't do himself because as he said, "the wife won't let me..." a little do as I say not as I do, he has suggested Whites go on welfare to drain the system, he advocates a primitive agrarian social network with a little tradecraft like primitive metalworking or cheesemaking on the side, he denigrates working class White people fancying himself some kind of future aristocrat in a post peak oil/apocalypse world simply because he knows a foreign language and has read fine literature and can play the violin! Does that about sum it up?

All of which I don't have a problem with, he advocates a LIFESTYLE, which btw he doesn't embrace himself other than his gardening. So be it, but let's not confuse these ideas as serious political thinking. He's said himself, this is fun and games to him, like a big frat party, and in that I think he got it 100 percent correct. The responses to him on this thread from Steve B. and Augustus Sutter reflect the seriousness with which these ideas should be taken, the only real lunacy being those who consider this some kind of radical out of the box thinking that is somehow going to save the White race.

As his Eminence has said this is a message board, and it allows these "ideas" to be vetted. If they are with merit they will stand on their own, and others will begin posting the great success they've enjoyed following his Lordships advice more so than his example.

To his credit he does recommend that Whites embrace a spirit of entrepreneurship, and that is a good suggestion. But all of what he writes could be more seriously taken if it wasn't merely idle speculation on his part, other than for the bunnyslaying. His "ideas" will carry more weight when he in fact lives as Randy Weaver did, off the grid, with boarders and no car as he recommends we do, and has become a successful WNist entrepreneur.

Quote:
Oh, and we did have a little White bunny on the menu the last time we met....And we all had a blast! :cheers:
From the above comment are we to infer you are a member of the vaunted Boston Unit...as you put it, it's all about having a "blast" so enjoy the bunny slaying frat party get togethers... Serious political activity they are not, fun and games I guess if that's what floats your boat.

Btw, from what Lord Kievsky wrote are we to infer that dogs and cats are on the menu next?
 
Old November 19th, 2006 #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Pride

And I'm able to vouch for his character because I've been with him in the REAL world, and not just from behind the computer screen were most of the net warriors like to dwell.

I'm able to vouch for Kievsky's character as well. I've stood with Kievsky at quite a few demonstrations...a few of which got a little violent. I've stood with Kievsky as jew bodies went flying through the air while getting mowed down by a pickup truck. ("Battle Of York") :box:

I've sat around with Kievsky in a less than serious mode while we played our very own rendition of "Dixie." (up in the north!) I'll stand with Kievsky any day of the week! (as long as his wife lets him! )

Kievsky's da man!


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Old November 19th, 2006 #57
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Kievsky is an idealistic and upright guy. He's done more than one good thing that got some local MSM coverage and/or was reported on VNN main over the years. As far as some of his ideas go, I don't agree with everything he says or the way he often takes things to the extreme, but most of the stuff has some kernal of truth - the importance of self-reliance, the need to be prepared for future possible economic crisis, etc. I believe in vetting new ideas and letting them cross-fertilize freely on a public forum. God knows the old ideas haven't worked yet.

I can vouch without exaggeration that Kievsky is one the few leader-like figures in this "movement" that I have met personally who has never bilked, badmouthed or backstabbed anyone. He limits himself to his projects and publishing his ideas. IMO that is commendable and ought to count for something. You'll notice he has more or less tried to take the high road in this flamefest.

That said, critics such as Steve B and Sutter are good for the reality check they provide and I don't think it hurts if criticism is sarcastic sometimes. Kievsky can certainly handle himself in debate. What I disagree with is the recent tampering with Sutter's rep points, which is complete chickenshittery. With two thirds of the decent poster driven off by the porn crap or irritating kike-alike accusations, this forum is truly turning into a petty, stifling and silly sort of clubhouse. At least some interesting audio is being produced.
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Old November 20th, 2006 #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Kievsky is an idealistic and upright guy. He's done more than one good thing that got some local MSM coverage and/or was reported on VNN main over the years. As far as some of his ideas go, I don't agree with everything he says or the way he often takes things to the extreme, but most of the stuff has some kernal of truth - the importance of self-reliance, the need to be prepared for future possible economic crisis, etc. I believe in vetting new ideas and letting them cross-fertilize freely on a public forum. God knows the old ideas haven't worked yet.

I can vouch without exaggeration that Kievsky is one the few leader-like figures in this "movement" that I have met personally who has never bilked, badmouthed or backstabbed anyone. He limits himself to his projects and publishing his ideas. IMO that is commendable and ought to count for something. You'll notice he has more or less tried to take the high road in this flamefest.

That said, critics such as Steve B and Sutter are good for the reality check they provide and I don't think it hurts if criticism is sarcastic sometimes. Kievsky can certainly handle himself in debate. What I disagree with is the recent tampering with Sutter's rep points, which is complete chickenshittery. With two thirds of the decent poster driven off by the porn crap or irritating kike-alike accusations, this forum is truly turning into a petty, stifling and silly sort of clubhouse. At least some interesting audio is being produced.
Forget about what me and Sutter said. Look at what Whitefist posted. If that isn't the best refutation of "bugs" bunny Kievsky then I'm heir to the British Throne.

Sutters rep, which was given to him by the members of the forum, is gonzo. Another chickenshit move by VNN moderators, as you said. And so is Sutter, apparently. Banned by the VNN politburo.
 
Old November 20th, 2006 #59
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Sutter dug his own hole. I was willing to give him room as Kievsky was open to the debate even though AS was acting like a jackass in an activism thread. That was enough for me to take action on him. But dragging the man's family into it is another thing.

Steve and Whitefist, you have personal problems with Kievsky, find another way to vent it off the forum or at least keep it out of activism threads.

And if you hate the way I do business or VNN handles things, why bother coming here? The internet is a big place. Plenty of room for reindeer games.
 
Old November 20th, 2006 #60
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RE: Steve B

Quote:
Forget about what me and Sutter said. Look at what Whitefist posted. If that isn't the best refutation of "bugs" bunny Kievsky then I'm heir to the British Throne.
I could take-on Whitefist point by point, but I’ll just say that his post rings hollow because he offers nothing else in lieu of Kievsky’s ideas. After all, what are the alternatives? Exactly how does a young racially aware White man justify working either directly or indirectly for the system? That very system constructed by the jew that has our genocide as one of it’s principal goals. Must it boil down to how far one will compromise his values in order to feed his family? This is a false dichotomy and part of the jew’s construct to keep us in subjugation. Kievsky’s suggestions offer an alternative. Maybe it’s not alternative agreeable to Whitefist, and that’s fine, but unless he has something else to offer, he should remember that he’s talking to a White man. His subtle distortions of Kievsky’s ideas as well as his contemptuous attitude, have placed him high on my watch list.
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