|January 26th, 2008||#1|
#1 OKC Bombing Thread
March 24, 2007
Convicted Oklahoma City (OKC) bombing conspirator Terry Nichols has alleged that former high level FBI official Larry Potts gave instructions to Timothy McVeigh to orchestrate the bombing. Nichols claims McVeigh said this before the bombing in a "slip of the tongue" when McVeigh said he was angry with Potts for "changing the target".
The seriousness of Nichols' allegation against Larry Potts lies partly in the fact that at the time of the OKC bombing Potts was an Assistant Deputy Director of the FBI who was put directly in charge of the OKC bombing investigation on April 19, 1995. In early May 1995 Potts was next promoted to the Deputy Director of the FBI, the "number two man" in the FBI under Director Louis Freeh.
Many are skeptical of Nichols allegations since he is a convicted mass murderer. However, people should also be skeptical of Larry Potts because of Potts' questionable role at the Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho sieges by the FBI. Potts was censored by the FBI and removed from being Deputy Director for changing FBI rules of engagement that led to the shooting of Vickie Weaver by Lon Horiuchi at the Ruby Ridge siege.
Weldon Kennedy replaced Potts to conduct the OKC bombing investigation and then was made Deputy Director of the FBI after Potts was removed as Deputy Director in July 1995. Danny Defenbaugh was next named to head the OKC bombing investigation. Defenbaugh himself left the FBI in 2001 after it was discovered that thousands of FBI documents Defenbaugh was responsible for relating to the OKC bombing had been withheld at the federal trials of McVeigh and Nichols. Weldon Kennedy also later resigned from the FBI after being accused of lying to Congress about corrupt practices at the FBI crime lab. Every one of the senior FBI officials Louis Freeh had named to head the OKC bombing investigation left their high-level positions in disgrace and joined the FBI's hall of shame. None of these high level FBI officials were ever prosecuted.
But even if it should later be shown that McVeigh did not directly take instructions from Larry Potts, it can still be conclusively shown that high-level FBI officials including Potts and Louis Freeh were behind the FBI instructing provocateurs to encourage and help McVeigh do the OKC bombing. FBI teletypes, memos and 302 reports already obtained by Jesse Trentadue clearly reveal high-level FBI officials used and protected provocateurs to encourage and help McVeigh including Shawn Kenny, German national Andreas Strassmeir, Dave Hollaway, and a member of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) who worked in and out of the FBI infiltrated white supremacist compound, Elohim City, in far Eastern Oklahoma. The spiritual leader for Elohim City, Reverand Milar was an FBI informant. An FBI 302 report obtained by Jesse Trentadue shows that McVeigh attended a meeting with FBI informants and provocateurs at Elohim City in 1994.
Shawn Kenny was an Army private that was involved in Midwest bank robberies with McVeigh. Andreas Strassmeir was in the US with an expired visa, knew McVeigh, encouraged him to blow up federal buildings and gave him advice on explosives. Dave Hollaway was a CIA pilot that introduced Strassmeir to Elohim City and then helped Strassmeir escape the INS to Germany via Mexico after the OKC bombing. Hollaway gave McVeigh advice on where to park his truck bomb for optimal damage and how to rent the truck without being easily detected. Public statements by McVeigh defense attorney Stephen Jones and an article by Ron Ostrow of the LA Times indicate that Louis Freeh knew Strassmeir was at Elohim City in 1993. FBI teletypes show that Freeh knowingly allowed Dave Hollaway to help Strassmeir escape. The FBI later used Hollaway as a negotiator in the 1997 Montana Freeman standoff with the FBI.
Larry Potts was a chief investigator for Louis Freeh during the prosecution of a Georgia mail bombing case called VANPAC that involved interaction with informant members of SPLC before the OKC bombing. Interestingly enough, a formal DOJ report later confirmed FBI crime lab chemist Frederick Whitehurst's allegations that FBI crime lab officials gave misleading if not false testimony in the courts not only about the VANPAC case but also about forensic analysis of the truck bomb used in the OKC bombing. Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa publicly accused Kennedy of lying to Congress about the FBI crime lab and Kennedy was forced to resign.
Larry Potts came under DOJ and Congressional investigation in part because of use of the US military in the Waco operation, a violation of the Posse Comitatus statute. The FBI's use of provocateur Shawn Kenny in the OKC bombing plot was also a violation of the Posse Comitatus statue because Kenny was a private in the US Army. The penchant of Larry Potts of illegally using SPLC members in VANPAC and military personnel in WACO was repeated in the OKC bombing. The forensic evidence was "misrepresented" by the FBI under Potts and Freeh in the VANPAC and OKC bombing cases.
Assistant Deputy Director of the FBI, Danny Coulson was also assigned to the OKC bombing investigation. Coulson had worked with Larry Potts at Ruby Ridge and Waco. There have been persistent allegations that Larry Potts and Coulson were in OKC early, very near to the time of the OKC bombing.
WorldNetDaily reported that Danny Coulson checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before the OKC bombing. Coulson referred in a report he filed with the FBI on May 16, 1995 to a clandestine operation targeting religious extremists (like at Elohim City) as his initial reason for going to OKC. Travel records and vouchers for Coulson and Larry Potts were listed as "missing," according to documents provided to WorldNetDaily.
Coulson traveled to Kingman Arizona to present a proffer, a plea bargain agreement to McVeigh's neighbor, Michael Fortier between April 28 and 29, 1995. The proffer was prepared by Freeh's and Clinton's legal counsel for the FBI and White House, Howard Shapiro. Coulson wrote in his book No Heroes that he encountered James Rosencrans brandishing a rifle at FBI agents when Coulson arrived to present the proffer.
Rosencrans was a drug dealer who testified at the OKC bombing federal grand jury in June and July 1995. Rosencrans claimed he gave McVeigh methamphetamine in exchange for guns stolen from gun dealer Roger Moore. Four employees at the Travelers Aid in OKC down the street from the Murrah Building saw Rosencrans and FBI provocateurs Shawn Kenny and Muslim Mujahid[in] Menepta with McVeigh's car at the Travelers Aid the day before the OKC bombing .
While Potts and later Weldon Kennedy ran the OKC bombing investigation, Coulson told FBI sketch artist Jean Boylan not to make sketches of a John Doe seen with McVeigh in OKC because he "did not want to help the defense." Boylan did not make sketches of numerous John Does seen with McVeigh in OKC by reliable Travelers Aid witnesses and Army recruiters inside the Murrah Building. Coulson likely was concerned Boylan might have sketched some of the FBI provocateurs seen with McVeigh.
Weldon Kennedy also did his part to cover-up his and the FBI's provocateur role in the OKC bombing, not only while he headed the OKC bombing investigation after Potts, but also when he later assumed Potts' position as Freeh's top Deputy Director.
According to Kevin Flynn of the Rocky Mountain News, Kennedy personally shutdown the FBI investigation into Robert Jacques. Jacques was a military man who had been with McVeigh and Nichols at the Cassville, Missouri real estate office of William Maloney and Joe Davidson in November 1994. Kennedy shutdown the investigation when FBI agents learned that Jacques was "one of ours."
While head of the Phoenix, Arizona FBI office, Kennedy had been in a position to monitor the OKC bombing plot activities via Rosencrans and informants in the Arizona militia that knew McVeigh including the head of the militia, Jack Oliphant and members Robert Jacks and Gary Alan Land. FBI documents obtained by Jesse Trentadue show the FBI had informants in the Arizona militia. Jacks and Land were neighbors of McVeigh in Arizona and followed McVeigh to OKC the day of the OKC bombing and afterwards to Perry, OK where McVeigh had been taken when arrested by the OK Highway Patrol.
While in Arizona, Kennedy specialized in using armored cars in FBI sting operations. In the OKC bombing a man named Robert Jacks was in an armored car observing the OKC bombing according to AP reports. There are persistent allegations that Weldon Kennedy, like Potts and Coulson were in OKC early, very near to the time of the OKC bombing.
An informant at Elohim City named Carol Howe identified men plotting to blow up federal buildings to her BATF agent handler Angela Findley Graham. Graham and Howe did not know the men were FBI provocateurs. As a result of Howe's and Graham's undercover work, the BATF planned a raid on Elohim City for March 1995 that, if successful, would have likely averted the OKC bombing in April 1995. However, the head of the OKC FBI office, Bob Ricks met with the head of the BATF in OK and persuaded the BATF to call off the raid on Elohim City. Ricks no doubt knew of the FBI provocateurs at Elohim City from high-level FBI officials like Potts and Freeh.
Bob Ricks knew Larry Potts and Danny Coulson because all three men were deeply involved in the WACO siege in 1993. Ricks worked with Potts, Coulson, and Kennedy on the OKC bombing investigation until October 1995 when Ricks resigned and was made head of the OKC Department of Safety under OK governor Frank Keating.
But Bob Ricks had more forewarning of the OKC bombing than just Elohim City.
The entire federal family of Ricks' FBI agents, US Marshals and federal judges in OKC was given a serious and official warning of an Islamic terrorist assisted attack on the OKC federal building complex in late March 1995 according to testimony by US prosecutor Beth Wilkinson in a November 1996 federal hearing for the OKC bombing.
Three days before the OKC bombing, the OKC FBI office was warned by William Northrup of an attack on the OKC federal building complex that included the Murrah Building. Northrup was a dual U.S. and Israeli intelligence asset who traveled from Florida to OKC to deliver the warning.
Reliable witnesses place Bob Ricks in front of the Murrah Building no more than 20 minutes after the bombing. If these witnesses' stories are true, then Rick's alibi for the time of the bombing is false and there would be further indication of Rick's prior warning. Ricks said his pager alerted him, as he was getting ready to tee off at the Fire Lake Country Club golf course in Shawnee, OK, 40 minutes away from downtown OKC.
There is a possibility that Robert Hanssen, a senior FBI counter terrorism official close to Louis Freeh, compromised the FBI's Elohim City operation to the KGB. Hanssen was later sentenced to life in prison for spying for the KGB. One of the men at Elohim City known to the BATF and FBI was Dennis Mahon, a member of the Klu Klux Klan who gave speeches in Tulsa, OK on behalf of Saddam Hussein and received a monthly stipend from Iraq of $200 per month. Mahon visited Russia and had ties to the KGB. Was Robert Hanssen aware of Mahon's activities at Elohim City for the KGB and Iraqis? When arrested, McVeigh had phone numbers of Iraqi intelligence agents.
The "old boy" FBI high-level leadership crony network involved in the OKC bombing provocations showed only contempt when they scammed the public with Larry Potts even at his retirement. The August 2001 Congressional Record has this entry:
"The Washington Times reported that a group of FBI managers staged a conference entitled 'Integrity in Law Enforcement'' that was merely a sham and a cover, so that senior FBI managers could obtain improper reimbursements for traveling to a retirement party for veteran agent Larry Potts [in 1997]… No one was disciplined other than to receive letters of censure."
For more details please see my new book The Oklahoma City Bombing Case Revelations
© 2007 Patrick Briley - All Rights Reserved
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Patrick Briley is a Navy Viet Nam era veteran who served on a Polaris ballistic missile nuclear submarine patrol in the Pacific. His Polaris submarine patrol in far East Asia near China was historically significant and exceptionally dangerous.
His Naval service was from 1968 to 1976 during the Viet Nam era. He was a battalion commander of his Naval ROTC unit and a Midshipman on board the ballistic missile submarine, SSBN 624, the Woodrow Wilson. He was chosen to serve under Admiral Rickover as a project engineer at Naval Reactors near Washington DC. Patrick Briley started research and investigation into terrorist attacks after the Oklahoma City bombing.
Patrick submitted his findings concerning the OKC bombing and the 9-11 attacks in briefings to high-level staff for the Senate Judiciary and Senate and House Intelligence committees, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, and the 9-11 Commission.
E-Mail: [email protected]
|January 26th, 2008||#2|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: With my awesome parents
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
I read McVeigh's biography, "American Terrorist". Did you know that he was executed on 6/11/2001? Just turn the six upside down and look at what date you get.
It's also rumored that McVeigh is still alive. Witnesses to his execution say that he was still breathing long after the purportedly lethal injection was given and they were simply asked to leave the execution viewing room.
Last edited by Alex Linder; February 2nd, 2008 at 10:21 PM.
|January 26th, 2008||#3|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
LMAO, this whole thing was a setup..... Alex we discussed this last night, and found a decent video of the reporters saying on "LIVE" Televitz, they've found more bombs in the building... I'd like to know what was in that building that they needed to get rid of? But my opinion that they were doing a practice run for when they need to gear up the American people for another Pearl Harbor type event so they could get the war drums beating....
|January 26th, 2008||#4|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
|January 26th, 2008||#5|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?
Hotel receipt shows top terror man showed up 9 hours before blast
Posted: January 19, 2002
By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com
The FBI's top counterterrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alfred P. Murrah Building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNetDaily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.
The Embassy Suites Hotel receipt of Danny Coulson, then-director of the FBI's Terrorist Task Force and founding commander of the bureau's Hostage Rescue Team was dated April 19, 1995, with a check-in time of "00:20" – military time for 12:20 a.m. (Editor's note: His last name is spelled "Coulsen" on the receipt, but it indicates he is with the "FBI," located at "50 Penn Place, Suite 1600; OKC, OK.")
The truck bomb exploded at 9:03 a.m., devastating half the building and killing 168 men, women and children.
According to the receipt, Coulson checked out of his hotel – room 406 – April 27 at 11:16 a.m.
The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the FBI's official denial of prior knowledge of the OKC bombing was first reported by J.D. Cash of the McCurtain (Oklahoma) Daily Gazette – a small-town paper that has been out in front of scores of OKC-related stories.
"Since the bombing, officials at the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the FBI had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah federal building," the paper said Wednesday. However, "evidence of Coulson's clandestine trip fits squarely with a substantial body of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained [via Freedom of Information Act requests] by" the paper – "evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counterterrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups they considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of the nation."
WorldNetDaily reported June 1 that Ricardo "Rick" J. W. Ojeda, a former FBI special agent involved in the original Oklahoma City bombing investigation, was given details of a relationship between convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh and members of a white supremacist group that may have helped McVeigh carry out the attack.
McVeigh was put to death 10 days later. His accomplice, Terry Nichols, is facing state charges in Oklahoma for his role in the bombing after having been convicted in 1997 on federal charges.
In his 1999 book, "No Heroes: Inside the FBI's Secret Counter-Terror Force," authored with Time magazine's Elaine Shannon, Coulson said he was in Dallas the morning of the Murrah attack. He said he and his wife were house-hunting and staying with friends:
We were finishing up breakfast with some old friends in Fort Worth when we heard the first news bulletin, something about a big explosion up in Oklahoma. ... My pager went off, displaying a number I knew by heart. "It's the SIOC," I said. The Strategic Information and Operations Center at the Hoover Building in Washington. John O'Neil, the headquarters official in charge of domestic terrorism investigations, answered. His voice was flat. "I guess you heard a bomb went off in Oklahoma City. 9:02 a.m." "Yes, it's all over the news." "A lot of people have been killed and injured. We don't know what we have. Ricks needs help. Can you catch the next flight?" "We're right in the middle of thunderstorms," I said. "Nobody in Texas is getting on a plane. I'll drive. ..."
But according to the Gazette's investigation – aided by the discovery of the hotel receipt – Coulson was apparently already in OKC, "tied to an FBI investigation that ... was part of a highly sensitive operation that few outside the criminal division of the FBI knew existed until long after it was disbanded."
That operation, allegedly begun by then-Attorney General Janet Reno in August 1994, was dubbed VAAPCON, assigned the number MC-111 (Major Case 111) and was aimed at investigating "the so-called religious right in America and possible ties to violent acts," the paper said.
Cash said he was unclear what VAAPCON meant, but he believes it has something to do with a Reno initiative to investigate violence against abortion providers.
The paper also noted that Coulson referred to MC-111 as his initial reason for going to Oklahoma City, using the case number in a May 16, 1995, report filed he filed with the bureau.
Others have also tied McVeigh and Nichols to white supremacist groups. WND reported June 27 that Indiana State University criminologist Mark Hamm, in a book published last fall, named former Aryan Republican Army member Mark Thomas, originally of Pennsylvania, and other members of his group as alleged coconspirators.
Based on court records and other evidence, WND also reported similar connections May 30.
Others, however, have said they believe McVeigh and Nichols were tied to Middle Eastern terrorists.
Jayna Davis, a former investigative reporter for the NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City told Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly May 14 that she had gathered massive evidence pointing to a conspiracy between McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization.
Davis said last year that she took her evidence – including hundreds of court records, 24 sworn witness affidavits and reports from law enforcement, intelligence and terror experts – to the FBI, which refused to accept the material or the leads.
Some details may never be revealed. For example, travel records and vouchers for Coulson and fellow FBI agent Larry Potts, also assigned to investigate the OKC bombing, were listed as "missing," according to documents examined by WND. One for Coulson, in the amount of $1,313.80, was dated the day of the explosion – "4-19-95."
"After this many years, the National Archives regularly disposes of these kind of records," FBI spokeswoman Barbara Miller told the Gazette.
Coulson could not be contacted for comment.
|January 26th, 2008||#7|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
|January 27th, 2008||#8|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
Yeah - you gotta remember how it was then, and not look back on it from today. Back then, angry white men and militias were the big deal.
But really, how brazen or just plain stupid is the FBI? Weeks of training by these "elite" third-string linebackers and their top guy leaves a paper trail at a hotel?
Last edited by Alex Linder; January 31st, 2008 at 07:54 PM.
|January 27th, 2008||#9|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
Clinton after OKC acted exactly like Bush after 9/11 - he used a government production to crack down on Constitutional liberties.
|January 31st, 2008||#10|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
What's interesting is that this ex-fbi agent also discusses David Koresh, and the OKC bombing. And apparently a TON of white water stuff that pertained to Bill and Hilary was there. Alex you gotta listen to this, this man seems to know everyone, and the whole deal. It's worth a listen...
The audio is in this thread.....
|January 31st, 2008||#11|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
If this were in SAT form:
SPLC: Dept. of Justice
Nature Conservancy: Dept. of the Interior
The Nature Conservancy works with the Department of Interior, by means illegal and, occasionally, legal, to take desireable parcels of land out of private hands.
The SPLC works with the Department of Justice to take down, by means illegal and, occasionally, legal Whites who threaten the System., which can only work if Whites are denied voice and legal and physical means of defending themselves.
|February 2nd, 2008||#12|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
Horton's original interview with Cash (July 2005)
Second interview (November 2005)
On Michael Fortier (January 2006)
Scott Horton's fourth and final interview with (the late) J.D. Cash (March 2007)
J.D. Cash died two months after the last interview:
Reporter J. D. Cash Dead At 55
From NewsRadio 1000 KTOK ~ Journalist J. D. "John" Cash, best known for his 12-year investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing, died today at a hospital in Tulsa. He was 55.
Cash had been diagnosed recently with liver disease and developed pneumonia after being released last month from St. Francis hospital in Tulsa. He had been living with his mother for nearly the past month, but developed pneumonia and was rushed to the hospital Saturday night. He died at 1:30 Sunday morning.
Cash once was a mortgage banker and held a law degree from the University of Tulsa. He went to live in a cabin that he had constructed in the hills in northern McCurtain County, then began writing stories for the McCurtain Daily Gazette. His writings about the Oklahoma City bombing first gained attention because they included interviews with an undercover IRS operative who maintained that she had warned the government of the plans of right-wing extremists to attack federal buildings in 1995. Cash went on to delve deeper and deeper into Tim McVeigh and others who had lived or visited Elohim City, the religious compound in eastern Oklahoma. Using the Freedom of Information Act, he was able to make a case that the FBI had McVeigh and other members of a gang of Midwest Bank robbers under investigation prior to the 1995 bombing of the Murrah building.
In recent years, Cash and fellow journalist and investigator Roger Charles were preparing a book about their findings. Cash was recently interviewed by the BBC about his documentation of his written stories. Cash lived alone in his mountain cabin and was a co-host of a morning radio talk-show on KKBI in Broken Bow. Until he turned seriously ill in April, he would make the 45-minute morning drive from his home to the radio station to hold interviews and do commentary. Cash is survived by his mother. A private service is planned in Tulsa.
Last edited by Alex Linder; February 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 PM.
|February 2nd, 2008||#13|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
I'm not sure if Cash's book ever came out, or what it was to be called. If anyone knows please post here.
BTW, this is an archive file, so I'm going to edit it as I see fit (like Speech Martyrs subforum). Looking for news articles, not lots of commentary in here.
|February 3rd, 2008||#14|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
What Really Happened in the Oklahoma City Bombing? Many Victims' Families Believe FBI Knew Bombing Was Being Planned;
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
As printed in Human Events, October 31, 1997, pp. 12,13,18.
In his new book The Secret Life of Bill Clinton: The Unreported Stories, just published by Regnery, renowned investigative reported Ambrose Evans-Pritchard alleges massive corruption and cover-ups in the Clinton Administration in connection with many incidents, including the death of Vincent Foster, drug dealing in Arkansas, and the Paula Jones case.
He also raises, as the Terry Nichols trial begins, some very serious questions about the tragic 1995 bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City. There is no doubt that Timothy McVeigh was guilty, says Evans-Pritchard, but he believes that nothing like the full story has ever come out. Why? Because the government, although it interviewed over 20,000 people, failed to call many knowledgeable witnesses during the trial, witnesses who could discuss collaborators with McVeigh and Nichols. He makes a strong case that the reason the government covered up--and continues to cover up--is that bumbling FBI agents knew in advance that the bombing plot was afoot but failed to stop it.
He discloses what he calls "the smoking gun of the Oklahoma bombing," a memo written only two days after the bombing. The memo discusses the FBI's debriefing of a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms undercover agent who infiltrated a neo-Nazi paramilitary group where men close to McVeigh talked about using violence against the U.S. government.
The charges in this book are sure to stir emotional reactions, but, writing about the book last week, national syndicated columnist Robert Novak said that Evans-Pritchard "is no conspiracy theory lunatic [and] is known for accuracy, industry, and courage." Evans-Pritchard has reported from the United States for both the Spectator and the Sunday Telegraph, for which he was Washington bureau chief.. He has recently returned to England and is now serving as the Daily Telegraph's roving European correspondent. In the following excerpts from the first two chapters of The Secret Life of Bill Clinton, Evans-Pritchard explains why so many families of bombing victims are suspicious of the official story of what happened that day and why hundreds have now filed suit against the government.
The searing destruction of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995, was the most traumatic event in the United States since the assassination of President Kennedy. . .
Clinton seized the moment. He castigated talk radio for broadcasting "a relentless clamor of hatred and division." The Right, he said, was sowing distrust of government institutions and creating a climate that fostered recourse to violence.
He did not name the Republicans as co-conspirators; he did not have to. The media clerisy made the connection for him. They all but said that Tim McVeigh was the military expression of the Gingrich agenda. Republicans had failed to understand that rhetoric has consequences, opined the commentators, and now look what had happened.
The Republicans were dumbstruck. A few dared to reply that it was the deployment of tanks by a militarized FBI against women and children in Waco that had set off the deadly spiral. But most were too intimidated, or horrified, to articulate a defense.
President Clinton traveled to Oklahoma and handled the ceremony of grief with consummate skill. . .
The polls noted that four-fifths of Americans admired his human touch. Overall, Clinton's job rating jumped from 42% to 51 %. Clinton had come back to life, and the Justice Department was riding high.
Valuable Witnesses Never Called to Trial
But what if the Clinton Administration has not told the full truth about the Oklahoma bombing, as many of the families now suspect? What if some of the perpetrators are still at large, freely walking the streets and giving remarkably candid interviews to this author, because it is not in the political interests of the White House or the FBI to bring them to justice? I think that would give a different complexion to the matter. I hope that the following chapter will make it clear that these are not idle questions.
I do not wish to revisit the Denver trial of Tim McVeigh. I am convinced that McVeigh was guilty, and his own lawyer admitted as much during the sentencing hearings. But the trial did not bring out the full story. Indeed, it was skillfully managed to ensure that collateral revelations were kept to a minimum.
This was a terrible mistake. The Oklahoma bombing was the most deadly act of terrorism ever committed on U.S. soil. It was no time for a sloppy investigation or a trial that could be considered expedited, abridged, or rigged in any way.
Jurists concurred that it was imperative that the Justice Department conduct itself beyond reproach if this tragedy was to attain closure. Retribution was important, of course, but it was even more important to sustain confidence in the American democratic system for decades to come. The President professed agreement. The attorney general promised to make this an exhibit of American excellence.
It did not happen. In violation of its "Brady" responsibilities, the prosecution withheld material from the defense that was exculpatory or impeached the credibility of government witnesses.
It delayed a year in handing over FD-302 witness statements that were critical to the defense. It stonewalled, obstructed, and dragged its feet at every turn. It also told a series of demonstrable lies that will be enumerated in this book.
As for the FBI, the proven malfeasance of the crime labs in the handling of scientific evidence from the crime scene makes it clear that the "OKBOMB" investigation was rotten from the foundations up. The report of the Justice Department's Inspector General lists the Oklahoma bombing case as one of the worst examples of de facto evidence tampering by the crime labs.
It is worth dwelling on this point because the FBI has been patting itself on the back for "solving" the Oklahoma bombing, as if it had cause for self-congratulation. In the first place, the FBI had no scientific basis for concluding that the Murrah Building was blown up by an ammonium nitrate fertilizer bomb. The FBI did not know in 1995, and does not know to this day, what actually caused the explosion. The Justice Department report concluded that the explosives unit simply guessed that the bomb was made of 4,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate after "the recovery of receipts showing that defendant Nichols purchased 4,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate."
The labs guessed that the explosive charge was placed in 50-gallon white plastic barrels, without conducting the requisite tests, after the discovery of 50-gallon plastic containers at the house of Terry Nichols. They said that the detonator appeared to be a Primadet Delay system, but no trace of this was found at the crime scene. Primadet was, however, found at the house of Terry Nichols.... You get the picture.
The FBI crime labs sculpted a theory of the bombing that would help the prosecution secure convictions against Tim Mcveigh and Terry Nichols--and science be damned. Once it is understood that the FBI behaved this way in handling empirical evidence-- where malfeasance is susceptible to exposure--it becomes easier to discern the attitudes that informed the rest of the OKBOMB investigation.
It is my contention that the crime labs were no worse than other divisions of the FBI. The only difference is that the technicians were caught red-handed, while certain corrupt field agents and their superiors have yet to be exposed.
In summing up, the inspector General's report found that the FBI crime labs had "repeatedly reached conclusions that incriminated the defendants without a scientific basis" in the Oklahoma bombing case.
Was Crime Shaped To Fit the Suspect?
I find this quite staggering. In Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, shared by Britain and America, it is not acceptable to shape the crime to fit the suspect. It is a practice we condemn as "framing." I do not understand why the current director of the FBI is still drawing a paycheck from the U.S. taxpayer after a scandal of this magnitude, especially since he permitted the retaliatory harassment of Dr. Frederick Whitehurst, the chief whistle-blower.
It was the duty of Judge Richard Matsch to prevent the executive branch from conducting a politicized trial that obscured the facts. Instead he went with the flow, acceding to the prosecution's request that the Inspector General's report be barred as evidence. It was never made clear to the jury that the FBI did not know what kind of bomb initially caused the blast, nor that the FBI had forfeited its magisterial authority.
But most serious of all the judge refused to allow the testimony of an ATF informant with very relevant information indicating that the Oklahoma bombing was a broad conspiracy involving several members of the neo-Nazi movement in Oklahoma, an assertion that the U.S. government had gone to great lengths to suppress.
Whether or not Judge Richard Matsch was acting in tacit concert with the Justice Department is a matter that will demand hard scrutiny by historians. Doubtless Judge Matsch is sure that he can justify his decision on technical grounds. No judge likes to commit reversible error.
But even if he can do so, I still believe that he betrayed his mission as a U.S. federal judge. There was more riding on the trial than the guilt or innocence of Tim McVeigh. The greater cause of justice was obstructed.
Needless to say. the Mcveigh trial was described in this way by the American media. The outcome was seen as a triumph. Judge Matsch was lionized, praised for restoring confidence in the criminal justice system. The reaction of the press disturbed me deeply. I never imagined that the machinery of cover-up could be so oppressively efficient.
McVeigh's mercurial counsel, Stephen Jones, allowed himself a moment of angry passion when he returned home to Oklahoma. If anybody thinks that the full story came out in the trial, he said, he could guarantee them that it most assuredly did not. Jones was bound to silence by the rules of attorney-client confidentiality, while McVeigh was "hanging tough" out of loyalty to his sworn brothers in the Aryan order.
Indebted to the Oklahoma families who have refused to accept the half-truths of the U.S. Justice Department, I offer a fragment of the story that these two men cannot or will not reveal.
Federal Law Agents Shunned Murrah Day Care
The boys were the heart and soul of the house. They lived with their mother and grandparents three generations together in the suburbs of Oklahoma City. Chase was three; Colton was two.
On weekdays they would be dropped off at "America's Kids" on the second floor of the Alfred P Murrah Building. Their mother, Edye Smith, worked as a secretary for the IRS, four blocks away. So did their grandmother, Kathy Wilburn, a training instructor.
The day-care center was an extra perk the two women enjoyed as federal employees. They did not know at the time that none of the law enforcement agents put their own children in the creche as a matter of policy. Nor did they know that the ATF, the Secret Service, and U.S. Customs had offices in the building.
Glenn Wilburn doubled as father and grandfather. A courteous, gentle, well-fed fellow, aged 44, he had a successful practice as a certified public accountant. In the evenings after work he would take his grandsons down to the park. On weekends he would take them to a movie. They watched The Lion King three times....
On Tuesday, April 18, 1995, Edye was sick with strep throat and stayed at home with the boys. The next day, Patriot's Day, she was still feeling ill, but her colleagues had made her a birthday cake, so she made the extra effort and struggled in to work.
It was the usual morning ritual. The boys were in Edye's bed, one snuggled up on each side. Glenn and Kathy burst in singing "good morning to you;" and the scramble began.
"Glenn was helping with Colton. He had him sitting up on the bar in the kitchen, putting on his little blue sandals," said Kathy. "When he finished, Glenn kissed him on the forehead and said, 'You're a good boy. Papa loves you.'"
No ATF Field Agents Were Hurt
The bomb went off at 9:02 a.m.
Edye was about to blow out the candles on her birthday cake when the shock waves rocked the IRS building.
I grabbed her and we rushed out into the street;" recounted Kathy. "I could see smoke over towards the Murrah Building, and I screamed, 'Edye, the babies, the babies,' and we took off running."
Then we saw it--the total devastation-- and Edye crumbled to her knees. I put my arms around her and told her, 'It'll be all right.' But I knew it wasn't true. I knew already that our babies were gone.
Both boys were killed. A rescue worker had found Colton still breathing in the ruins, but he would not live long. His stomach had been ripped out. Kathy's grownup son Daniel had spotted the tiny two-year-old body laid out on a bench.
Glenn had already heard the news. When the women found him in the mayhem outside the Murrah Building, he was leaning over the hood of a pickup truck crying his heart out.
That was when it all fell apart for Glenn," said Kathy. "It wasn't pancreatic cancer that killed him in the end. He really died of a broken heart."
That night they huddled together at home, silently watching the TV news. The camera picked out a solitary shoe on the edges of the smoking rubble. It was the blue sandal that Glenn had slipped onto Chase's tiny foot that morning.
Within days of the bombing the rumors began to circulate. People talked of seeing bomb squads in downtown Oklahoma in the early hours of the morning before the blast. It was said that the ATF did not come to work that morning at the Murrah Building. The families noticed that none of the ATF agents were on the casualty list.
One hundred and sixty-eight people had been killed. It was the most deadly act of terrorism in the history of the United States. If there was a bomb squad on alert that morning, the full story would come out soon enough.
But Edye Smith began to sense that the Justice Department was dissembling. There was a hint of arrogance in the responses of U.S. Attorney Pat Ryan. The man was pleasant enough, but he did not make a serious effort to answer the questions of the families. When Edye asked where the ATF agents were on April 19, he brushed her off with a glib comment that they were playing in a golf tournament at Shawnee. He was mistaken. Some of the DEA were playing golf, but not the ATF.
She contacted the ATF directly, only to hear a babel of improvised spin. There were two ATF agents in their offices on the ninth floor that day, said one message on her answering machine. No, there were four, said another message, left by another official the same day.
Edye was being trifled with. Her grief turned to anger. On May 23, 1995, the day the ruined Murrah Building was brought down with demolition charges, she erupted in a live interview on CNN.
Where the hell was the ATF, I want to know?" she thundered, red hair flying in the breeze. 'All 15 or 17 of their employees survived, and they were on the ninth floor. They were the target of this explosion, and where were they? Did they have a warning sign? Did they think it might be a bad day to go into the office?
They bad an option not to go to work that day, and my kids didn't. They didn't get that option. Nobody else in the building got that option. And we're just asking questions We're not making accusations. We just want to know. And they're telling us: 'Keep your mouth shut, don't talk about it.'"
Deluged with calls from the media, the ATF issued a press release. "I strongly suspect that these malicious rumors are fueled by the same sources as the negative rhetoric that has been recently circulating about law enforcement officers," said Lester D. Martz, the Special agent in charge of the Dallas regional office. "The facts are that the ATF's employees in Oklahoma City were carrying out their assigned duties as they would any workday, and several of them were injured in the explosion."
ATF Peddled Phony Elevator Story
In fact, the only people in the office to suffer injuries were two clerical workers. None of the ATF's field agents were hurt.
If Lester Martz had stopped there the matter might have subsided. But he over-reached, the instinctive reflex of an agency accustomed to operating without accountability. "We were there, and we were heros," he said.
The ATF claimed that Alex McCauley, the resident agent in charge, was in an elevator when the bomb went off. He survived a free fall from the eighth to the third floor. McCauley escaped by breaking through the thick metal doors, and went on to rescue survivors in the stairwell.
If the ATF thought they could get away with this farrago, they had underestimated the 23-year-old redhead and her affable stepfather. Curiosity piqued, the Wilburns tried their hand as amateur sleuths. With the help of a freelance reporter, John (J.D.) Cash, Glenn contacted the Midwestern Elevator Co., the firm that had actually searched the elevators for survivors.
The first thing we did was split up and check, then double check, each elevator for occupants," explained Duane James, one of the engineers. "We found that five of the six elevators were frozen between floors, and a sixth had stopped near floor level.... We had to go in through the ceilings of the elevators to check for people.... All were empty."
Agent Alex McCauley could not possibly have broken out before the team arrived, said James, "not unless he had a blowtorch with him.... The doors were all frozen shut.... It took several of our men over 12 hours just to get the one elevator [opened]."
None of the elevators had been in a free fall. 'That's pure fantasy. Modern elevators have counterbalances and can't free fall unless you cut the cables, and none were. There are a series of backup safety switches that will lock an elevator in place if it increases in speed more than 10%."
The Midwestern Elevator Co. took extensive photographs to document the inspection. These records were later reviewed by ABC's "20-20" program. The pictures confirmed that all the safety cables were intact.
As the details emerged, the ATF began to back away from its claims, suggesting that the blast created the sensation of a falling elevator. "Well, maybe Agent McCauley just imagined he free fell," said Lester Martz in a taped telephone interview with J.D. Cash.
Agent McCauley was transferred to Kansas City and quietly demoted. The Justice Department, however, clung resolutely to the story of his accomplishments. Joseph Hartzler, the chief prosecutor in the case against McVeigh, repeated the tale in a court filing on Nov. 7, 1996, dismissing any doubts about the mailer as "outrageous.
At the time, Hartzler already had the FD-302 witness statements given to the FBI by the elevator engineers, all concurring that the story was fabricated. But Hartzler has never been held to account for deliberately misinforming the court.
The Wilburns had walked through the looking glass. They now knew for a fact that the head of the ATF's office in Oklahoma City was a shameless liar. And they were learning that some of the others were just as bad. On May 24, 1995, the day after Edye's outburst on CNN, Glenn was visited by two ATF agents. It was a contentious meeting. Glenn pressed them hard. "Didn't April 19 have any significance to your people? You know, Patriot's Day, the Waco raid?"
"No, there was no alert, or any concern on our part about the significance of that day," replied Luke Franey, an undercover agent who sported long hair and a ring in one ear.
Two hours later Glenn was watching the news. It was a live interview with John Magaw, the director of the ATF, explaining that the agency had taken special precautions on April 19. "I was very concerned about that day and issued memos to all our field offices. They were put on alert," said Magaw.
It was the lies that offended Glenn more than anything else. One lie, after another, after another....
The kidney-shaped table in the kitchen of Glenn and Kathy had become the nerve center of the Oklahoma dissident movement. Their closest friend and ally was J.D. Cash from the McCurtain Daily Gazette.... [He had proved] himself to be a reporter of extraordinary skill--a loose cannon, perhaps, a wild man, a transgressor of every rule in the Columbia School codex--but still one of the best investigative journalists of modern times.
Among his friends was Richard Reyna, the court-appointed investigator for Timothy McVeigh. It was a relationship that would lead to an unholy alliance between the Wilburns and the defense lawyers of the man who murdered their grandchildren.
Documents have a habit of leaking when friendships are formed across a broad front, and it was not long before the Wilburns acquired the raw material of the OKBOMB investigation--FBI 302 witness statements, Tim McVeigh's phone logs, surveillance reports, the unfiltered facts. They were no longer competing at a total disadvantage against the U.S. Justice Department.
The alliance made sense. The Wilburns and the McVeigh defense team both wanted to know whether the U.S. government was telling the truth.
It caused consternation in Oklahoma City. Glenn and Kathy were denounced by the state media as "conspiracy theorists" and tools of the far right. For a year they endured bitter recriminations from many of the families.
But that would change.
When the Wilburns filed a federal tort claim against the U.S. government in April 1997, just in time for the two-year statutory deadline, they were joined by 170 of the Oklahoma family members.
The claim alleges that the U.S. federal government "knew or should have known" that the Murrah Building was a likely target of attack. Their chief counsel Connecticut lawyer Richard Bieder, brought in three other law firms with specialist expertise in a legal alliance that had very deep pockets and a track record of confronting the government.
Another group of five families signed up shortly afterward with the Los Angeles firm Baum, Hedland, Aristie, Guilford, and Downey. Finally, more than 300 family members joined a third suit with John Merritt in Oklahoma State jurisdiction against the FBI, the ATF and other agencies of the U.S. government. The Merritt lawsuit alleged outright that the disaster was a failed "sting operation."
The claim stated that the U.S. authorities had "detailed prior knowledge of the planned bombing of the Murrah Building yet failed to prevent the bombing from taking place." It alleged that ATF agents were "alerted not go to work on April 19, 1995."
Civil lawsuits are the great purgative instrument of the American system. They are the safeguard against abuse. The rules of civil litigation are very different from criminal trials. The power to subpoena documents and witnesses under legal discovery is much broader, while the power of tame judges to exclude evidence is much narrower. The truth has a way of forcing itself to the surface.
The Secret Life of Bill Clinton: The Unreported Stories by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
|February 4th, 2008||#15|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
ISO Dave Holloway & Kirk Lyons Anybody know either of these guys, what they're up to nowadays?
Listen to this Scott Horton interview with the late J.D. Cash re OKC bombing:
Cash says Dees owns Lyons and his boy Holloway.
|February 4th, 2008||#16|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
You know another angle that always made me suspicious about this whole Tim McVeigh deal was about his supposed " connection " to the movement.
1. He supposedly loved the Turner Diaries so much yet he never made any known attempt to contact Dr Pierce, even though the good doctor was pretty easy to get in touch with. He traveled all around the USA to gun shows, went to see the Waco standoff and even called in the NA hotline a few times hours before the bombing but he NEVER made the trip to talk to the man who wrote his " blueprint"? How curious.
2. He had no license plate on his vehicle. It was like he wanted to get pulled over, And when he was pulled over by one lone cop he chose to tell the cop he had a gun and submitted to being arrested quietly. He was a sharpshooter, had just killed a bunch of people and wouldnt shoot a cop.....gimme a break.
3. He had the Turner Diaries and various other "patriot" materials in his car when he was arrested. Pretty convenient, was he planning on doing some reading???
These are just a few of the holes that I personally found in the story that just dont make a hell of a lot of sense. Also, lets face it boys, the Turner diaries are more about a race war than anything else and McVeigh was not pro white, he was a race traitor who was messing with Nichols wife. I cannot imagine that ANYONE could like that book if they were not a serious racialist.
Come Home to the Pacific Northwest
|February 4th, 2008||#17|
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
These are interesting points, April. Cash, who knew as much about all this as anybody, expressed mixed, even contradictory views, in the Horton interviews. On one hand he says McVeigh loved Turner Diaries, but he also refers to evidence, including photos and letters to his sister, that McVeigh was on some kind of undercover military project, and his washing out of special forces and becoming a vagrant was a cover story - as was apparently the case with Guthrie, one of the ARA bankrobbers.
It's very hard to find anyone in ARA/Elohim City crowd who was not a military guy or federal informer. It seems to me that either Cash's background or his disdain for "nazis" is blinding him to the reality of OKC. He sees it as some sort of sting gone wrong, explained by hyper-incompetence. I don't think that's the case. It is proved beyond doubt that the feds knew that a bomb was going to go off. Their claim that they screwed up and didn't stop it in time - that is not credible to me.
I really encourage people to listen to all the interviews above.
|February 8th, 2008||#18|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Blog Entries: 2
Re: FBI Behind OKC Bombings
|February 16th, 2008||#19|
Hillary Ordered The Final Massacre At Waco
Hillary, not Bill, not Janet Reno, not Webb Hubbell, not Vince Foster was the one who ordered the final assault. Final death count: 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 children and two pregnant women.
"A Woman in Charge"
From Robert Morrow
Austin, TX 512-306-1510
Hillary was the one who ordered the FUBAR final assault on the holed-up Branch Davidians in Waco on April 19th, 1993. The final death count from this disastrous fiasco was 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 childrene and two pregnant women. The appalling disaster at Waco was what motivated Timothy McVeigh to participate in the terroristic bombings in Oklahoma City, two years later on April 19, 1995.
Hillary was putting pressure on Vince Foster (her longtime boyfriend, sexual partner and emotional husband) and Webb Hubbell who was the #3 guy at Justice Department, to have a forceful resolution to the Waco standoff. Webb Hubbell is also probably the father of Chelsea, not Bill Clinton: Check out post #207 on this FreeRepublic web link to see a photo of the strikingly similar Webb Hubbell and Chelsea:
One big reason Hillary place Hubbell in the #3 spot at the Justice Department was so that he would not have to go through a Senate confirmation hearing where the ugly and probably true details about Hubbell being the biological father of Chelsea might be revealed in this process. Carl Bernstein in his book on Hillary gets close to this, "Foster vaguely repeated his fear that the confirmation process would hurt Hillary. He seemed to know something that Nussbaum didn't." [Bernstein, A Woman in Charge, p. 253] Likewise Hillary placed Vince Foster, her longtime lover and emotional husband, at the #2 spot in the office of White House counsel, although Vince (Hillary's best friend) was really superior in power over White House counsel Bernie Nussbaum. Vince basically was the one who "vetted" Nussbaum for the spot.
"Give me a reason not to do this," Janet Reno is said to have begged aides shortly before orders were issued in the final assault. After the complete disaster of the final assault on the Branch Davidians, Bill Clinton was refusing to face the media, and Janet Reno stepped out to take full responsibility in front of the cameras. But the real "Woman in Charge" responsible for the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 21 children and two pregnant women was was Hillary, not Janet Reno, not ev
During an interview in early February 2001 the former White House aide alleged that Hillary Clinton pressured the late Vincent Foster to resolve the Waco standoff. As a resulen and children were killed. Appearing on CNN's "Larry King Live" Tripp suggested that Foster, at Mrs Clinton's direction, transmitted the order to move on the Branch Davidian's Waco compound, which culminated in a military style attack on the wooden buildin
Her accusations lend weight to charges made previously by Special Forces expert and Waco investigator, Steve Barry. According to the former Special Forces member, Hillary set up a special "crises centre" in the White House to deal with Waco. Serving with her in the centre was Vincent Foster who, according to his widow was subsequently: "fuelled by horror at the carnage at Waco for which the White House had ultimately been responsible."
Foster himself was found dead, from a gun-shot wound to the head, in a Virginia park three months later. Could he have known too much about Waco?
Journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard maintains that Foster had been "drafting a letter involving Waco" on the very day of his death. Moreover Evans-Pritchard says that Foster kept a Waco file in a locked cabinet that was off limits to everyone, including his secretary.
Prior to Waco, Foster was "dignified, decent, caring, smart" says Linda Tripp; in its aftermath though, she said: "Vince was falling apart."
She was with the former White House deputy counsel when the news about Waco broke on television. "A special bulletin came on showing the atrocity atWaco and the children. And his face, his whole body slumped, and his face turned white, and he was absolutely crushed * knowing the part he had played."
"And he had played the part at Mrs Clinton direction," said Tripp.
Moreover, there was a marked contrast between Foster's heartfelt emotion at the Waco tragedy and Hillary Clinton's, Tripp insists: "Her reaction was heartless".
Her accusations give further weight to allegations first levelled in the 1999 documentary on the deadly confrontation, "Waco: A New Revelation." The film featured the account of former House Waco investigator T. March Bell. "One of the interesting things that happens in an investigation is that you get anonymous phone calls," Bell explained in the film. "And we in fact received anonymous phone calls from Justice Department managers and attorneys who believe that pressure was placed on Janet Reno by Webb Hubbell, pressure that came from the first lady of the United States."
Mrs Clinton grew more and more impatient as the Waco stand-off came to dominate the headlines [Hillary want to get so-called "heath care reform" done, and Waco was taking all the headlines in spring, 1993, so Hillary forced the Waco resolution with disastrous results and a lot of death - Robert Morrow ] during the early months of the Clinton administration, said Bell. It was she, according to Bell's sources, who pressured a reluctant Janet Reno to act.
"Give me a reason not to do this," Reno is said to have begged aides shortly before orders were issued for the final assault.
Sources include: The SPOTLIGHT Oct 30 1999 and NewsMax.com, Tripp: Hillary Directed Waco. Saturday, Feb. 10, 2001
|February 16th, 2008||#20|
Join Date: Aug 2005
I always thought that Vince Foster "suicide" didn't smell right. The easy capture of McVeigh, a so-called desperado, didn't smell right either. It had overtones of Lee Harvey Oswald "conveniently" hiding in a movie house awaiting capture. McVeigh gets caught in some BS traffic stop? When's the last time anyone was executed as quickly as McVeigh(besides Lee Harvey Oswald)?