Michael Kühnen: builder of the post-ww2 german neonazi movement

[Cthulhu]

Then the fact that he converted to Islam after expousing "NSism" should have you thinking about things, hippy.

Like I said, Myatt is anti-NS and so are his followers. As for his Numinous Way, write it on something soft so it won't scratch when I wipe my arse with it.

Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt and National Socialism

It was also during this time that his Islamic writings - written under the names Abdul Aziz or Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt - became militant, and he was praising such people as Osama bin Laden, and the Taliban, long before the events of September 11. After those events, his Islamic writings became quite prolific, and he was a regular contributor to various Usenet newsgroups, and other Internet forums, where he staunchly and eloquently defended bin Laden, the Taliban, and their fundamental version of Islam, earning the admiration of many Muslims. He was regularly invited to meet with Muslim groups, and speak at various meetings. He was also approached by several journalists who desired to interview him, but he declined on each and every occasion. In addition, he became the subject of attacks from those - mostly non-Muslim - who were angered by the militant Islamic views he was supporting. This, not unnaturally, led some of his non-Muslim opponents to question his commitment to Islam, since by then both his past and his continuing involvement with National Socialist groups had become widely known.

In public, Myatt himself seemed to shrug such attacks off - quoting Koranic verses, sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, and also the words of various Sheikhs about the irrelevance of someone's past before their conversion to Islam - while at the same time circulating by less public means various articles and essays about the need for Muslims and National Socialists to join forces to fight their "common enemy". (1)

Then, in 2002 AD, following the break-up of his third marriage, Myatt abruptly changed his own life to live once again as a homeless wanderer, or vagabond. During this time, he continued to develop his philosophy - or Way of Life as he called it - of the Numinous Way of Folk Culture, wrote several paganistic poems, and many private letters (2) which seemed to indicate that he had abandoned Islam in favor of a love for Nature and what he termed the "reason, empathy, compassion and honor" of his Folk Culture with its belief in separate ethnic homelands.

However, he occasionally - even during and after this time - traveled, for whatever reason, to Muslim countries, as he still published a few Islamic articles, such as his The Knowledge of Islam and an updated version of his notorious Are Martyrdom Operations Lawful According to the Quran and Sunnah? It may or may not be significant that this particular article, justifying suicide attacks, was for a long time given a prominent position on the official web-site of Hamas.

http://www.geocities.com/davidmyatt/...onversion.html

The guy is a flake. You are one of his hippy followers, grooving to the "Numinous way".

Well I'm not picking up any good vibrations bub. I'll stick to Hitler, Gobbels, Eckhart, Hess, et al, and you can stick to Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt.

Fuck you, I'm no bourgeois with his empty rhetoric of "personal honour". Where is the honour in a man who flips religions like hamburgers, and seeks to undermine the foundations of the NS worldview by turning it into some sort of occultic mish-mash?

I read your words, and realised they were the sure and certain words of a person spouting nonsense that only makes any kind of sense to kindred cult followers. NATIONAL SOCIALISM IS NOT A CULT. IT IS NOT A RELIGION. IT REQUIRES NO THEOLOGY. Is this getting through to you?

Anyone who trys to turn it into a cult or religion is an enemy of National Socialism.

[Cthulhu]

"For over thirty-five years I have been on a quest to answer such questions as "What is the meaning of life?" In the course of this quest I have studied, and acquired practical experience of, many religions and ways of life, including Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, paganism, Hinduism and Christianity. I have learnt a great deal from this quest and have concluded that only the natural, honourable, folkish, reasoned, Numinous Way which underlies what I have called Folk Culture fully answered all the questions about the meaning and purpose of our lives. Thus, The Numinous Way, of Folk Culture, with its Cosmic Ethics, represents my own world-view, and I believe this Way is the means to create a civilized, free, society, of honourable men and women, which will enable us to begin the next stage of our human evolution: the exploration and settlement of Outer Space." -- David Myatt

Flake. But at least he admits that it is his OWN world-view (what ever the crap the "Numinous way" is) here, and not the National Socialist world-view. So off you go, non-NS person. NS talking here and we don't require interlopers pretending to be one of us to tell us our business.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Then the fact that he converted to Islam after expousing "NSism" should have you thinking about things, hippy.

The fact that you pick and choose facts to suit your Party line does not surprise me.

BTW, thanks for the cool, civilized response. Not!

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

The guy is a flake.

Would that be a Cadbury one, by any chance?

[Joke for our English cousins BTW!]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Where is the honour in a man who flips religions like hamburgers,

See, picking and choosing your facts.

You missed the point about him seeking answers; Faustian quest - expressing by such seeking part of the essence of our own Aryan soul.

This, also -

I saw myself as carrying on this National-Socialist and SS tradition of seeking knowledge, understanding and co-operation while always bearing in mind that my foremost duty was to my own people - to their freedom and their culture.

But, there seems little point in continuing this particular thread, as you seem to have your opinions, which external information, even if viewed, does not touch.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Flake.

Are you on commission fron Cadbury, BTW?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

But at least he admits that it is his OWN world-view (what ever the crap the "Numinous way" is) here, and not the National Socialist world-view. So off you go, non-NS person. NS talking here and we don't require interlopers pretending to be one of us to tell us our business.

Again, you pick and choose.

Here's an important part you "missed":

During these years... I learnt about myself; about other people, and slowly moved toward a new, a deeper, understanding of myself and this world of ours. In essence, what I have called The Numinous Way expresses my own world-view, and I regard this Way as the esoteric essence of National-Socialism. I now - as I have always done since I was sixteen years of age - regard Adolf Hitler as a good and honourable man, as I know that National-Socialism, as expressed in my National-Socialist writings, is a manifestation of what is good, evolutionary and honourable.

[Cthulhu]

Seems alot to pick and choose from doesn't there? That should tell you something about his flake status. And forget all this dribble about his aboriginal "dream time", or indian "vision quest", I'm not buying that.

The Numinous Way of Folk Culture differs not only from Islam, but also from National-Socialism. For The Numinous Way does not depend on National-Socialism in any way. Rather, it is National-Socialism which depends - or should depend - on the ethics and the essence of The Numinous Way.....
-- Myatt

But of course NS requires his "Numinous way" but his "way" does not require NS. Well go tell it on the mountains brother! Another flake who uses the legacy of a historic movement to weave his own spiritual musing and beguile the unsuspecting. Perhaps your cult leader, hippy, ought to start examining external information instead of his own inner feelings.

I have even rejected the concept of a large Nation, in favour of small folkish homelands; and certainly rejected the notion of racial superiority - which is dishonourable - and the concept of modern warfare, which is also dishonourable.

Dick.

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch04.html

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Seems alot to pick and choose from doesn't there? That should tell you something about his flake status.

May I suggest you read the following thread here on VNN?

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=26656

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Perhaps your cult leader, hippy, ought to start examining external information instead of his own inner feelings.

May I also suggest that you consider Myatt's thirty-five or more years of practical activism in NS politics; and his forty or so years of practical experience and travels. For him, its practical experience which goes before "inner feelings" - which you might have known had you read and understood what he has written.

[Cthulhu]

Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt's 35 years of activism amount to nothing but an attempt to destroy National Socialism. Go fuck yourself, dirtbag. I'm not some moron that falls for every crook trying to sell his own personal recipe for snake oil. I'm a National Socialist and that does not require his "Nebulous way" or his "theology". His "Nebulous way" contridicts not only National Socialism but reality itself.

Anything that claims to be National Socialism while seeking to undermine its foundations and usurp the authority of the natural laws of existence is an enemy - ALIEN AND HOSTILE. It is you who should read that link, as your purpose in this thread from the start was to try and foist your non-NS views upon a discussion us NS people were having, by jumping on an agreed point, that homosexuality was ultimately bad for the volk and then inserting your cultish religious visions. Don't stick your nose in our business and it won't get bitten.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt's 35 years of activism amount to nothing but an attempt to destroy National Socialism.

On the contrary - he has helped revive National Socialism. His NS writings have been translated into French, Polish, Serbo-Croat, Spanish, Russian, Italian, Swedish, Finnish etc. etc - and they have inspired hundreds, thousands, of people, world-wide, especially young people

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Go fuck yourself, dirtbag. I'm not some moron

First part of that sentence is very rational, is it not?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

that falls for every crook trying to sell his own personal recipe for snake oil.

Myatt has put forward a rational, well-thought out, ethical folkish world-view, built upon the foundations of National Socialism.

You might, disagree with this view, but instead of rationally trying to debate this view, you resort to personal abuse, and making personal allegations. Not very honorable, is it?

Where does honor fit in with your version of NS?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I'm a National Socialist

Indeed? Then define this NS of yours.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

His "Nebulous way" contridicts not only National Socialism but reality itself.

What is reality? What is a world-view? We could debate such things, but you seem to just bring forth personal abuse.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Don't stick your nose in our business and it won't get bitten.

Obviously, you did not read the VNN thread I posted a link to. Well done.

Our business is aiding our people to survive and evolve. To create a homeland or homelands. Have you forgotten that in your pursuit of some personal vendetta?

[Cthulhu]

I have provided quote after quote after quote. You, nada, but more contradictions from your guru.

Myatt has put forward a rational, well-thought out, ethical folkish world-view, built upon the foundations of National Socialism.

I have already provided a quote from Myatt where he says his "nebulous way" is not built upon the foundations of National Socialism and doesn't even need National Socialism. Don't try and lie you dishonourable piece of crap.

What is there to debate? Nothing.

Then define this NS of yours.

See that is the point. The original NSists have done that already. I don't need to define it. They have. Go read them. I gave you a link where Hitler in Mein Kampf completely destroyed Myatt's "nebulous way", using logic and an understanding of natural laws and human nature.

Hitler is my witness. I take him over Abdul-Aziz any day. Now get lost liar.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I have provided quote after quote after quote.

Indeed - selected quotes, as I have pointed out.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

You, nada, but more contradictions from your guru.

If you want to rationally debate what you see as "contradictions" - then please do. I'm up for such a debate.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I have already provided a quote from Myatt where he says his "nebulous way" is not built upon the foundations of National Socialism and doesn't even need National Socialism.

You provided one quote - which I placed in context.

Here it is again, and I shall place the important part in bold, just in case you miss it (again):

In essence, what I have called The Numinous Way expresses my own world-view, and I regard this Way as the esoteric essence of National-Socialism. I now - as I have always done since I was sixteen years of age - regard Adolf Hitler as a good and honourable man, as I know that National-Socialism, as expressed in my National-Socialist writings, is a manifestation of what is good, evolutionary and honourable.

Also:

I am a National-Socialist - I uphold the folkish world-view manifest in The Numinous Way of Folk Culture, of which National-Socialism is one modern expression, or emanation

The Numinous Way, as I have said and written several times in the past few years, is the esoteric essence of my evolutionary National-Socialism: the foundation upon which all honourable folkish ways, including National-Socialism, are built.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

you dishonourable piece of crap.

So much for rational debate then. I see you do not answer my questions, but just reply with more personal abuse.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

What is there to debate?

Your assertions, such as the one about "reality". And how you define NS, since you call yourself one. And so on.

Here is another quote you missed:

In respect of National-Socialism, or rather the National-Socialism evident in National-Socialist Germany. I regard that as a beginning, and my own National-Socialist writings as built upon that beginning - as an evolution of National-Socialism itself. National-Socialist Germany was what is was - such a beginning, based upon such insights, such understanding, as existed then. I hope I have provided more insights, more understanding. National-Socialist Germany was not perfect, just as honour, then, was not as conscious as it is now.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

The original NSists have done that already. I don't need to define it. They have.

So NS is in stasis is it? Like what Hitler wrote is some kind of "holy book" which must be blindly followed?

Now who is contradicting themselves?

If you recall, I have stated, following Myatt, that NS is in evolution, not in stasis. Living, numinous, things change - dead, impotent, ideas do not change.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Now get lost liar.

You wish! So much for honor, then - another question of mine you failed to answer.

I might ask what have you done, on the practical level, for NS? How many organizations have you been the leader of? How many people have you inspired to become National Socialists? How many enemies have you faced on the streets? How many articles of yours have been circulated world-wide among an audiance of tens of thousands?

BTW I must get some sleep soon - and have my weekend away doing stuff in the real world. But I shall be back - Monday, if not before, so don't gloat or count your chickens before they're hatched.

[Cthulhu]

And was I suppose to not "select" the quotes?

Hey, you might think mindlessly quoting contradictions from the congenital liar Myatt might be enough. It isn't.

Myatt says it isn't found on NS, Myatt says it is. How convenient.

I regard this Way as the esoteric essence of National-Socialism.

SYNONYMS mysterious, esoteric, arcane, occult, inscrutable

We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists but something else - in any case something which has nothing to do with us. . .
-- Adolf Hitler, Nuremberg, 6th September 1938

Myatt says the house is red, Myatt says the house is blue, Myatt says the house is yellow, and if the house is another colour, Myatt claims it's that too.

Hitler warned us of people like Myatt.

Is NS in stasis? The world-view is. The answers, that the NS world-view provides, change as the times challenge us with new situations that raise questions that require answers. Such as how to deal with snakes who try to turn NSism into something it is not, for example into a religion with a "cosmic being".

You are on ignore. First person I have done that do. Try counting those chickens arsehole. Like I said there is nothing to debate. Hitler condemns Myatt. So do I.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Hey, you might think mindlessly quoting contradictions from the congenital liar Myatt might be enough.

Good to see you took up my challenge of having a rational debate and stopping your personal abuse of someone you do not know!

Good to see that you have yet again evaded answering any of the questions, such as defining what you believe NS is, and what role honor plays in your version of NS.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Is NS in stasis? The world-view is.

Since you have not defined what you mean by this "world-view" - or even answered my question as to the difference between a world-view and a "code of living" (aka a religion) this is not really an answer, is it?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

You are on ignore. First person I have done that do. Try counting those chickens arsehole.

Ah, the power of civilized debate!

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Like I said there is nothing to debate.

Yes there is.

1) How do you define NS
2) What place does personal honor have in your version of NS and how do you define honor?
3) Who or what gives a particular version of NS validity?
4) What is "reality"?
5) Define a world-view and how it differs from a code of living (aka a rleigion)
6) What is religion?

And so on.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Hitler condemns Myatt. So do I.

Ah - it is clear now! You have a direct line to The Chief! From the Shrine of Cthulhu, no doubt.

He has spoken to you and told you he condemns Myatt...

Now that does answer one of my questions as to how you validate your version of NS!


Hice a nice day!

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Myatt says the house is red, Myatt says the house is blue, Myatt says the house is yellow, and if the house is another colour, Myatt claims it's that too.

Some more quotes for you (and maybe others who are ready this thread) to consider.

If I have achieved anything in over thirty-five years of a diverse, world-wide, seeking, questing, learning and struggle, it is a certain understanding. This is about Nature, and ourselves, as human beings - about our relation to Nature and the cosmos beyond. It is about honour, reason, Destiny, and identity. It is about the living beings of the Cosmos, manifest in The Cosmic Being, in Nature, in the diversity of folk and culture: in our own folk - in the small homelands where our folk can dwell and evolve in an honourable way. It is about the need for us to have, or create, a new ethical alternative to the present corrupt, materialistic, dishonourable, tyrannical, System: a new way of living based upon nobility and freedom where Nature is respected and revered, and where the ethic of honour is the fundamental guiding principle.

It is that we as a people, as a folk, must know where we have come from and where we are going - and most importantly know what honour and freedom are and that they are worth honourably fighting for. There simply has to be a better understanding of our goals - our aims, our Way of Life: an understanding of Nature and the Cosmos beyond our own finite causal lives. There simply has to be a higher perspective which places us, as individuals, in the context of Nature, of the Cosmos. There simply has to be a great vision to inspire us, but in an honourable and reasoned way. There has to be an understanding of the importance of reason and personal honour

(From: Autobiographical Notes 3)



---


In the matter of honour, aren't you defining it in a restricted sense, incompatible with National Socialism? For wasn't there, in National Socialist Germany, loyalty to the German nation, and the killing of both combatants and civilians?


To be precise, I have made the very concept of honour conscious - refining it, and making it the basis of the morality of The Numinous way. I have expressed it - defined it - quite precisely so that it can no longer be misunderstood and misused.

In respect of National-Socialism, or rather the National-Socialism evident in National-Socialist Germany. I regard that as a beginning, and my own National-Socialist writings as built upon that beginning - as an evolution of National-Socialism itself. National-Socialist Germany was what is was - such a beginning, based upon such insights, such understanding, as existed then. I hope I have provided more insights, more understanding. National-Socialist Germany was not perfect, just as honour, then, was not as conscious as it is now.

From: Honour, Empathy and Revolution



----


Don't many people regard you as "weird", outlandish, and say you've had so many change of beliefs they cannot take anything you now write seriously?


I am as I am - someone who has saught answers to certain fundamental questions about life, and who, never satisfied with the answers of others, has often plunged, often without much forethought, into experiences in the hope of learning something.

But anyone who studies my works seriously can see the common threads running through them - the folk; honour; duty; idealism; an understanding of the numinous presencing that was National-Socialist Germany; a reverence for Nature; an empathy; often a compassion for all life. Indeed, my diversity of experiences I regard as a strength - something which should be celebrated, for no one can say I am ignorant; or a bigot; or consumed by hatred; or driven by what the abstract-brigade call "unconscious feelings" or whatever. For, given all these many and diverse experiences, I am an advocate of folkish beliefs - of separate homelands wherein we can celebrate our diversity and difference in an honourable way and so move on toward the next stage of our evolution. Indeed, I believe I have answered, in my recent writings about National-Socialism, and in my writings about The Numinous Way of Folk Culture, all the criticisms and objections of our opponents, and have provided a coherent, folkish, rational, and above all an ethical, Way of Life: something we sorely need.

From: Honour, Empathy and Revolution



----

Don't you think people find all your changes of views rather confusing?

Possibly - but I have been, and still am, upon a Promethean quest; upon a search for understanding, for wisdom. Over the decades - often as result of my experiences, and my own mistakes - I have come to understand many things, and my own understanding has grown, slowly over this period. In a way, this has been an organic, a natural, process. Thus, in the last seven or so years I have created, and been slowly refining, The Numinous Way. In truth, I have been following where my insights lead me - where honour, empathy, reason, and compassion lead me.

From: David Myatt and The Numinous Way


----

I am just one individual who, having experienced live in diverse ways, and who, having pondered deeply on certain fundamental questions, has come to some conclusions. Other people are free to agree with or reject some or all of my conclusions.

My conclusions, such as they are now, may be of some interest to, or some use to, some individuals. It is their choice. I have no interest whatsoever in proselytizing, or even, now, in defending my conclusions. They are as they are.

From: Honour, Empathy and Revolution

[diabloblanco92]

Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes

alex,

thanks for the educational thread. I read about Kuhnen years ago in Ingo Hasselbach's book. Perhaps you might introduce VNN readers to Ingo Hasselbach as well.

Yes,I read all about him in Hasslebachs book as well. My stand is simple, you cannot be a gay male and be a WN for the same reason a practcing racemixer cannot be a WN. WN and the White race live and are created and nurtured through the White female. She is quite justifiably a jealous godesss, and should not tolerate any false gods, whether other dudes or NW females, before her.
That said. Khunens ideas must be judged on their own merits even if we cannot accept the bearer of them as a WN
Every WN ought to read Chairman Mao on Guerilla Warfare, but that does not mean that we think Mao was White or a WN, LOL

[Cthulhu]

A world-view concerns itself with this world and this life, the world of phenomena, alone. It has no esoteric content. It has no mysteries and provides no mechanism for comunicating with god(s) or godhead.

A religion concerns itself with the unseen, and/or world(s) and the inhabitants thereof beyond this one. It has mysteries (transubstantiation, the nature of nivarna) and often provides a mechanism for communicating with beings beyond the natural world.

I regard this Way as the esoteric essence of National-Socialism

Since National Socialism being a world-view has no esoteric content, the quote given above speaks for itself.

It is suggested that Myatt is a satanist with connections to the Order of the Nine Angels. Having come across satanists myself I would say that in all likelyhood this is so. His use of the crowleyian term "Aeon", his talk of the promethian or luciferian quest are all hallmarks of these kind of people. The name chosen, Abdul-Aziz, for his "conversion" to Islam also reminds one of the A::A of Crowley's cult. Dissimulation and lies, false seeming and deception is what these people are about and they should be avoided where ever possible.

Myatt speaks of honour. There is a very interesting essay by Schopenhauer which includes a section on Honour:

Position, or A Man’s Place in the Estimation of Others.

Honour is covered in section four on the web-page the above link points to. In it Schopenhauer correctly points out that to defend one's "honour" by method of a duel is an appeal to the concept of "Might is right". Myatt maintains that to appeal to such a concept is dishonourable and yet he does not refrain from calling for duels to satisfy his "honour". Another contradiction? Perhaps, but in his defence, a contradiction more likely sprung from his ignorance of the true nature of honour than an exercising of a "satanic dialectic".

[alex]

Kühnen's "work plan east"

Translated from http://www.akweb.de/ak_s/ak446/25.htm A anti-fascist article by Helmut Schroeder, Simon Yehudi in the year 2001:

"Legal arm" of the brown violence

The NPD and the concept of the "national liberated zones"

At the beginning of 2001 the NPD was sued ate the constitutional court.Thus the months-long discussions for a prohibition request against the NPD found its end.The proof-material of the Federal Goverment for the unconstitutionality of the NPD misses a large blank point: the role of the NPD in the right terror.

With its anti-antifa structures which stand for the persecution and destruction of the political enemy,its glorification of national socialism ( slogans like "fame and honour to the Waffen SS"),its aggressive and uniformed appearance in the public,its stand for a völkisch-authoritarian state and the concept of the socalled "national liberated zones",which drives out every political enemy and immigrant,prove that the NPD is a dangerous neonazi force.

Its organizational potential clearly extends over the officially specified 6000 party members,their connections and their co-operation with violent skinheads and the "Kameradschaften",which it covers with its party structures,for which she organizes marches and demos and which it does promote in other ways too,makes it a danger which is to be taken seriously.

This realization was played down for a long time by this and past Federal Goverments for a long time.Only recently did the "Verfassungschutz" take the particulary aggressive and unconstitutional acting of the NPD into consideration,as one in vain tries to find them in the annual reports.

Germs of a neofascist order

According to the estimation of the "Verfassungsschutz" the terror readiness in the neo-nazi scene grows."Verfassungschutz"-chief Heinz Fromm explained "that the developing structures for terrorism were visible".The "Verfassungschutz" knows about "neo-nazis who prepare for an armed revolt".He in particular stressed that the NPD and its youth organization JN have become a "fertile soil for the violent spectrum".(dpa,09.06.2000)

From the time Udo Voigt took the leaderhip of the NPD in 1996,he maneged to change the "old-gentlemen" image of the party.Today the party understands itself as "the frontline of the national resistance".Ever since 1997 the "three-column-concept" existed,namely the "struggle for the streets","the struggle for the parliaments" and the "struggle for the minds".Under the guidence of Voigt the NPD developed to an action-oriented party.In 1999 alone about 60 demonstrations were announced by the NPD/JN. (focus,33/2000) These demonstrations are at the same time the organizational framework,for the skinhead-marches and the socalled Free Nationalists,who belonged to former forbidden neonazi-groups.Free Nationalists,who are organized in the country widely in approx. 150 "Kameradschaften" and skins form the substantial recruiting and mobilizing-potential of the NPD/JN.From these groupings a latent violence occurs.

The NPD sees in the concept of the "national liberated zones" the possibility to work out with the "Kameradschaften" the germ-cells of a new neofascist order.In east Germany they can show-together with other groupings- considerable successes.For some time now there have been data available in the media and from sciece-circles about these "fear-zones",of whom in 1998 already approx. 30 existed.

Already back in 1991 a certain Thomas Hetzer wrote in the "forefront of the Nationaldemocratic university-bund (HNB)" wrote about the concept of the "national liberated zones" that its objective is to "establish a counter-force to the system".The establishment of a "counter-force in the underground" is demanded,which would arise from the autonomous resistance cells and should displace the state power for the neo-nazi scene:"We look at the liberated zones from a militant point of view,namely the view of the political activist.Its not about building independet states ,or any similar nonsense.No,the zones mean two different things for us.Firts of all its the stablishment of a counterweight.We must create free spaces,in which we exercise actual power,in which we are santionable,i.e. we punish political enemies,we support fellow combat activists,we help the suppressed fellow citizens."

Further it is stated :"from a militant point of view we are a liberated zone,not only if we can demonstrate and act without any fear from the political enemy,but also when the political enemy cant do that things."
In the article a neofascist programmatic project as opposed to the existing social order was developed:"national liberated"must be understood as follows: foreigner-free,jew-free,free from any form of democracy.the trade unions etc.It is above all a concept of the political force and intimidation,which are directed at the political enemy and unpopular persons;and it is a concept which wants to help an aryan-völkisch subculture to dominate.

In consequence the NPD promoted these ideas again and again.The Austrian neo-nazi Christian Rogler wrote in the NPD-paper "German voice"(DS) under the title "Courageous counter-force.The conquest of cultural free spaces is the task and goal for a nationalist policy",in the October edition of 1999,that "the creation and development of "liberated zones" is and remains the first step for the creation of a liberated country.From the history of the workers'movement over those of the IRA,the basques counter-culture and the everyday life-work of Italian and French nonconformists up to the structural experiemces of the 68's generation and the 'Notstandsgesetze' (...) there is a linking of similar and interesting thoughts which can help the creation of "liberated zones".In the today's social order these concepts will do more to advance the nationalist movement in the long term than any of the short-term populist system-conforming protest election would do."

The Verfassungsschutz watches out for the right-wing

The existence of "national liberated zones" was a known fact to the public at least as back in 1997.In the annual reports,the minister for the foreigner-affairs of the Federal Goverment,Schmalz Jacobsen mentions at least 25 known "no-go-areas".In the press the statement follows: " there are today areas,mainly in east Germany,which are called by the right-wing extremists "national liberated zones".We recommend that foreigners and tourists never leave the house after the break down of darkness without company."(press release,10.12.1997)

The Federal Ministry of Interrior had overslept this development completely.In its annual reports the theoretical debates and more important it practical effects were not represented for years.For the first time in 1999 the theory of the "national liberated zones" found its mention in the annual VS report.The VS worte that the "national liberated zones" were brought by the media in connection to the student-organization of the NPD.So far the VS could not determine a "systematic conversion of this trategy paper"."A reason for this might be the fact that there are no guidance personalities whithin the violent scene".(VS-report 1999)

In view of this it does not suprise us in the least that the Federal Goverment -for example in coordination with the conference of the Secreteries of Interiors(IMK)-took no measures against this neofascist strategy.And it does not suprise us that no materials about the violent extreme-right terrorism were handed to the Federal Goverment to use it for the NPD-prohibition.

EDIT The "national liberated zones" are something like a "no-go-area" dominated by neonazis.Similar to the "no-go-areas" of the black ghettos.Back in 1998 30 such no-go-areas were documented.Today 2005 more than 100 exist in Saxony alone.

[Cthulhu]

Excellent stuff. The "national liberated zones" remind me of the PLE certain American WN are trying to form. They, however, don't have a unifying political ideal, which I always thought a mistake.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

A world-view concerns itself with this world and this life, the world of phenomena, alone. It has no esoteric content. It has no mysteries and provides no mechanism for comunicating with god(s) or godhead.

A religion concerns itself with the unseen, and/or world(s) and the inhabitants thereof beyond this one. It has mysteries (transubstantiation, the nature of nivarna) and often provides a mechanism for communicating with beings beyond the natural world.

Thanks for the definitions. Now we may get somewhere, sans personal abuse...

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Since National Socialism being a world-view has no esoteric content, the quote given above speaks for itself.

If we accept your premise that NS is a world-view, as defined by you above, then what you say above is logical.

But if we say that NS concerns itself with more than politics and the affairs of this world, then that does not follow.

Your definition of NS as a world-view (defined by you above) makes it quite materialistic, does it not? Rather along the lines of Marxism. As Myatt might wrote - all this is quite un-numinous.

What, then, of ethics?

Now, if Myatt defines NS as a code of living which concerns itself with fundamental questions about life and being, then it follows that there is such a thing as a NS world-view (as defined by Myatt) which is numinous.

But please note that this new world-view which Myatt puts forward is a rational one which does not involve "mysteries" or "secrets" or "prayer" or some kind of "god".

See http://david.myatt.tripod.com/theology_numen.html

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

It is suggested that Myatt is a satanist with connections to the Order of the Nine Angels.

Oh dear, and we were doing so well..

Now you repeat ZOG allegations about Myatt. Where is the evidence? No one - I repeat no one - has provided any evidence whatsoever in support of this allegation. Myatt has always denied such involvement.

Now, please provide some evidence. Or is it - as it seems - that you have some irrational dislike of Myatt for some reason, and are prepared to repeat the lies, the baseless accusations of ZOG and its lackeys in order to justify yourself?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Myatt speaks of honour. There is a very interesting essay by Schopenhauer which includes a section on Honour

Yet again we have the question of definition, and appealing to the so-called "authority" of some previous writer.

You seem to accept one definition, and seem to refer to the "authority" of some past writer.

We are free to accept what someone writes, or not. I personally do not accept what Schopenhauer writes in this matter. Neither does Myatt.

Myatt defines honour and makes it the basis for this ethics and the basis for law, with the duel as a natural extension of honour. His system is quite self-contained, rational, and logical.

You obviously do not accept it.

So, we have the question of "reputation" here. You refer to people like Schopenhauer; I and some others refer to Myatt. Many here would also refer to people like Nietzsche - and quote what he writes about a particular topic.

Unlike the "established writers", Myatt's reputation has yet to be fully established, and I for one find it very interesting that there is a concerted attempt by ZOG to discredit Myatt in the hope of preventing him acquiring a good reputation among White Nationalists. Why is that? Are his ideas so dangerous for ZOG?

So, you follow "established" writers, Myatt breaks new ground, and provides a complete and Aryan code of living, a whole new world-view, which is religious in the rational and ethical sense of that term.

You follow the NS of the past. Myatt has evolved NS.

By all means challenge his ideas; but please refrain from personal abuse and repeating unproven allegations about the man. In the end, I am sure this ZOG campaign against Myatt will fail and that in fifty or more years time Myatt's reputation will be well-established.

[Cthulhu]

A kike, a satanist? I don't care, you are just a shit stirrer trying to derail NS.

But please note that this new world-view which Myatt puts forward is a rational one which does not involve "mysteries" or "secrets" or "prayer" or some kind of "god".

from the link you provided:

It is my view, which I have expounded in various writings, that what I have called The Numinous Way (of Folk Culture) is a complete and unique Way of Life - or Weltanschauung - with its own ethics, based upon the ideal of personal honour, and with its own Theology, based upon what I have called "The Cosmic Being". This Being is not the same as the God of Christianity, nor the Allah of Islam.

There can be no such thing as prayer, in The Numinous Way, because of the matrix, The Unity, the acausal: because the Cosmic Being is us, and Nature, in evolution, and not separate from us when we are honourable, fair, rational. We only have to follow the ethics of honour - to be reasonable, just, fair, honourable - to access the Cosmic Being, to presence thhis Being in our lives. This presencing is thus natural, and does not depend on prayer, or rituals, of any kind. In this sense, The Numinous Way is, in my view, far in advance of - far more evolved than - other Ways of Life.

This is similar to the Hare Krishnas, where prayer is in action to allow access to the 'Cosmic Being'. Hare Kristna, hare, hare... So you say it it is not what it is, like a kike or a satanist. You will not confound me. Also the evolution aspect points to the Omega Point of certain Christians, and even earlier ideas propounded by various sects.

the·ol·o·gy (thē-ŏl'ə-jē)
n., pl. -gies.
The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions: Protestant theology; Jewish theology.
A course of specialized religious study usually at a college or seminary.

These types of being derive their life from the acausal - or rather, from acausal energy. That is, they are manifestations of the acausal in the causal world. In a sense, these beings are acausal life, as distinct from the causal life-forms we know, through experience and Science, and which dwell with us on this planet.

Living things distinct from that which we know through experience and Science, and yet are revealed. Here lies Mystery.

Stop lying you GD yid! Or lunatic satanist!

Instead of focusing on social issues confronting our people today and securing our nations and our peoples you want to prosthletize a new religion, setting white man against white man to struggle for their fundamental spiritual beliefs instead of addressing their problems in the real world today. Mystify us with your galactic imperium while mud oozes down our streets! Tell us of the superman to come while race-mixed mongrels increase.

Wake up! Get your head out of the clouds and start fighting the fight today, here, in this world. Not for something no one can experience or Science can discover, but for your people. If "your" people are White that is.

But no. You show your true face, throwing down obstacles in our way. Poisoning our children's minds with fantasies. Fuck you kike, fuck you and your luciferian quest.

Come on lie some more. Make up some more untruths. Point to another contradiction. Hair split some more, you talmudic cretin, take up more of our time with religious crap, you seek to muddle NS with. Stop disturbing this thread with your fantasies. alex has information to share. STOP TRYING TO INTERUPT HIM.

[Cthulhu]

As for ethics and materialism, you didn't read my link arse=wipe:

"The feelings of honor and shame exist in every man who is not utterly depraved, and honor is everywhere recognized as something particularly valuable. The reason of this is as follows. By and in himself a man can accomplish very little; he is like Robinson Crusoe on a desert island. It is only in society that a man’s powers can be called into full activity. He very soon finds this out when his consciousness begins to develop, and there arises in him the desire to be looked upon as a useful member of society, as one, that is, who is capable of playing his part as a man—pro parte virili—thereby acquiring a right to the benefits of social life. Now, to be a useful member of society, one must do two things: firstly, what everyone is expected to do everywhere; and, secondly, what one’s own particular position in the world demands and requires.

"But a man soon discovers that everything depends upon his being useful, not in his own opinion, but in the opinion of others; and so he tries his best to make that favorable impression upon the world, to which he attaches such a high value. Hence, this primitive and innate characteristic of human nature, which is called the feeling of honor, or, under another aspect, the feeling of shame—verecundia. It is this which brings a blush to his cheeks at the thought of having suddenly to fall in the estimation of others, even when he knows that he is innocent, nay, even if his remissness extends to no absolute obligation, but only to one which he has taken upon himself of his own free will. Conversely, nothing in life gives a man so much courage as the attainment or renewal of the conviction that other people regard him with favor; because it means that everyone joins to give him help and protection, which is an infinitely stronger bulwark against the ills of life than anything he can do himself."

and from "Those damn nazis"

The return of German honor. Without honor, one has no right to life. A nation that has pawned its honor has pawned its bread. Honor is the foundation of any people's community. Losing our honor is the true cause of the loss of our freedom.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm

This does not require any "cosmic being", any numinousness.

What does anti-Semitism have to do with socialism? I would put the question this way: What does the Jew have to do with socialism? Socialism has to do with labor. When did one ever see him working instead of plundering, stealing and living from the sweat of others? As socialists we are opponents of the Jews because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation's goods.

What does anti-Semitism have to do with nationalism? I would put the question this way: What does the Jew have to do with nationalism? Nationalism has to do with blood and race. The Jew is the enemy and destroyer of the purity of blood, the conscious destroyer of our race. As nationalists we oppose the Jews because we see the Hebrews as the eternal enemy of our national honor and of our national freedom.

to repeat

It is only in society that a man’s powers can be called into full activity. He very soon finds this out when his consciousness begins to develop, and there arises in him the desire to be looked upon as a useful member of society, as one, that is, who is capable of playing his part as a man—pro parte virili—thereby acquiring a right to the benefits of social life. Now, to be a useful member of society, one must do two things: firstly, what everyone is expected to do everywhere; and, secondly, what one’s own particular position in the world demands and requires.

But a man soon discovers that everything depends upon his being useful, not in his own opinion, but in the opinion of others; and so he tries his best to make that favorable impression upon the world, to which he attaches such a high value. Hence, this primitive and innate characteristic of human nature, which is called the feeling of honor, or, under another aspect, the feeling of shame—verecundia.

Point 24 of the original 25 point NSDAP program:

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.

"But a man soon discovers that everything depends upon his being useful, not in his own opinion, but in the opinion of others"

"common utility precedes individual utility."

No "cosmic being", no "presencing" of this invisible hob-goblin, this Brahman coming to consciousness required.

"No National Socialist shall be allowed to suffer beccause he does not subscribe to a certain religion or because he subscribes to no religion at all. Belief is a matter for each one to resolve in the light of his own conscience.” – Rudolf Hess

"We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race."