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Old August 10th, 2013 #21
Robert Ransdell
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Hugh - Your ideas and philosophy for how to go about things certainly makes much sense, but I am a bit troubled by how in this current age it could be something that produced a successful outcome, how it could be practically applied to MOST people today who took your preferred path, with no other options being explored at the same time.

What I mean is this, what is to guarantee that these people who work and toil trying to "get up" in the world will not at some point find themselves at a point where they say "damn look what I can afford, look at the women swarming around me now that I have this money, look at all these fancy toys, look at this big house I can now afford", etc.

The plague of Jewish materialism is one that seemingly affects anyone who finds themselves with a few more dollars than the day before. It makes people pessimistic as to whether effort and struggle, sacrifice most of all, is worth it, and it makes it much harder to risk losing it once you have it, it makes people lazy in many cases, not all but many.

I am not saying that all of our people need to be street activists and openly pro-White figures and activists, the point is there has to be people who can effectively gain people's attention, inspire them, and move them to stand and act, when this begins to happen it may embolden the intellectuals, the upper class White people to say what has been on their minds, to voice their agreement.

I suppose some could keep their eye on what is important for the race, however it takes a certain amount of desensitivity to take this path you suggest, to just ignore what is taking place in favor of keeping your nose clean enough to advance within the system. For me it would be impossible to stay silent because of a job, a girl, hell my life, the enemy can take a lot from a person, they cannot touch my mind or my heart. I fear that those who could, most of them, hold back their feelings of disgust for the system in order to advance in a given field like one you mentioned would be very likely to forget about WN once their pay check got big enough.

I think there is much to be said about bringing the doers and such to our side through nationalist activism and building a movement. And certainly both avenues can be pursued at the same time, which I think is the best way to go.

Not all of our people are intelligent or talented enough to pursue the path you described and not all of our people are courageous enough by nature and mentally armed to be a public figure and a "face" of our revolution - so each person can find their best path to take - all with the same goal, different path or road, same destination.

Your thoughts???
 
Old August 11th, 2013 #22
Derrick Beukeboom
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I think what Hugh is stating is realistic, pragmatic and big picture/macro oriented. His posts are quite valuable and I hope he continues to put forth his analysis.
Lots of young whites go through the typical stages where they wake up and become agitated, idealistic, righteous, angry, mad, etc.
So being young, intelligent, moral and idealistic they want to 'do something about it'.

And they come barreling down with the all too typical nave piss and vinegar approach (not that their talking points are incorrect as we know). And the jews and socialists bury them easily.
And what do they primarily utilize as bug spray which stops Nationalism cold: financial/economic destruction.

A close 2nd place is social stigma and demonization: they have impressively equated White ethnic civil rights and nationalism as "Racism".
Again, Hugh is correct, the jews are the smartest and most clever and since they have a monopoly on media and large scale economics (thus govt. policy as well), the house always wins.
Itz a rigged game as they say.

This is why VNN's original purpose is so imperative. True, real world News that the jews don't want you to know.

Until Whites are able to have their own paradigm creating places, the jews will continue to win and win easily.
Think tanks and more academic oriented groups are out there, but the jews and socialists have mostly already infiltrated them and because many of these groups have respectable, professional members, it is relatively easy for the jews and socialists to Trojan horse and take over.

So this is basically how any positive momentum has been stopped cold in its tracks.

I believe what Hugh is explaining is that this struggle is not like a Hollywood movie. William Wallace was also stabbed in the back and quartered you know.

Yes, if you don't know what your specific stated GOAL is then you need to step back and re-think.
And with that specific goal in mind, are you prepared to take on the jews and socialists?

At minimum they will get financially ruined and stigmatized.

If you are immune to this and are viewed as a real potential threat to waking up others, they will just set you up and lie and throw you in supermax like they did with Matt Hale.

It is a very serious thing. It's real politics and real struggle. It would be easy and more the typical White natural way to have the Saxon/Celtic mentality of fighting like you see in the movies or what the old British soccer hooligans did. Just manly, teutonic oriented clashing and fighting and the best side wins.

Ah, but we are not fighting other Whites here. Re-read what Hugh wrote. We are dealing with the world's foremost tribe: they invented monotheism after all and gave it to Aryans so we would be pacified and easier to deal with.

Unless you have stated, specific goals and are truly prepared to go through the gauntlet and be unemployable, then it is likely you will want to develop the skills and mindset others have noted.

Become a professional with real skills. And not everyone needs to be an accountant or engineer.
Trades will always be needed and you can work for yourself. Plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc.
All tremendously underrated and yes, you can do these things all over the world.

You need to leave the US for what ever reason? They pay skilled people very well in Saudi Arabia and other ME countries for 1-3 year contracts.
And since you are White, you likely will oversee Phillopinos and Chinese labor and fix things they jerry rig.

Within your country, you can work within the system, get a good job, do some incremental things and have connections but you can never be open or a leader.
So this is basically the deal. Hugh's long term approach is big picture oriented and basically to lay low...I think this is where some of you younger, more idealistic nationalists have an issue with.
(we've all been there btw).

But we have to be honest with ourselves and determine what one can really do.
VNN media is something that is not given enough support and seriousness.
Lots of venting and ranting, but do you realize the potential at establishing a jew free media apparatus?

Marches, bullhorns, flags, etc...all may make you feel good, yet primarily counter productive.

Infrastructure building and networking is more valuable.

I will say that Whites are generally becoming more open to having some sort of organization which fights on behalf of them.
But you will need suits, good looking and thin women, educated attorneys and accountants, spokespeople, and journalists, writers....these people will be a counter weight to the mainstream system.

The challenge is why would these skilled, educated, marketable people work for a Nationalist organization? Why would they go through what the jews will do to them?

Answer: they won't. There is no organization in North America which can pay them and even if there are these people out there who know the score it doesn't make sense for them to use their skills for White civil rights because the jews monopolize the media.

It's a cost/benefit equation problem and always has been.
Why? Because Whites in the US have never felt that they are a specific interest group. There is no 'Nation' of Whites here. It is different in places like Flanders, Greece, Quebec, and Scotland.

So while Hispanic Unity and the National Negro College Fund receive not only Govt. grants and funds, people can donate and even receive a tax benefit write off. And they have a staff and can actually pay people and give them benefits.

GD works because Greece and the Greek people are a viable, definable Nation.

'Kwan Whites are nothing. Nothing but consumer cows and once or twice a year ethnics getting shit faced drunk on St. Patricks day or July 4th.

Amerikwa is the perfect place for rootless socialists, jews and multi-culturalists.
They have already changed the narrative in the last 20-30 years that the USA "has always been a multi-cultural place" and was never a White country.

Utter and complete lie and historical revisionism.

But those that win the wars write the history books.

The only true 2 positive trends which I see is that:

1.) whites are getting outbred by nonwhites and are losing confidence and getting pushed and pushed. I believe many are getting tired of playing the chump and keep moving away from the nonwhites, getting outvoted, seeing that "they are taking over the country" (I hear this statement often) and of course the media and govt. policy double standard.
It is wearing on people.
Normally it wouldn't mean anything, but this brings me to optimistic point #2:

2.) large-scale economic uncertainty. America will NEVER be the same financially or economically because the house of cards of fed-gov is unsustainable.
Forget the stock market bubble. This has nothing to do with the average person or even average 'upper middle class' person.
The bubble is only from banks buying made up money and itz all electronically done.

Although they state things have stabilized a bit from '09-'10, this is mostly cosmetic.

When the next bubble bursts, this is where the change can happen.
Fat, well fed, TV watching wage earners will NOT do anything nationalistic oriented.
They will agree with you quietly and shirk any positive movement.

GD is doing well because Greeks can not be shamed at this point.

Why do you think people love zombie apocalypse stuff now?
It's their subconscious desire that realizes things suck and the nonwhite zombies around them are ruining things and they are desiring something that will wipe the slate clean and they want a fresh start.

Meanwhile, be smart and do the things Hugh mentions. You will learn how things truly work and if you play your cards right, you can be a position of influence when the time is right.

Last edited by Derrick Beukeboom; August 11th, 2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: spelling
 
Old August 11th, 2013 #23
Rick Ronsavelle
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Old August 11th, 2013 #24
Hugh
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Quote:
What I mean is this, what is to guarantee that these people who work and toil trying to "get up" in the world will not at some point find themselves at a point where they say "damn look what I can afford, look at the women swarming around me now that I have this money, look at all these fancy toys, look at this big house I can now afford", etc.
Nothing. Just like a business owner who hires kids fresh out of school, trains them, helps them get a start in life, helps them get qualified, then sees them leave to go work for his competitor.
Tough. Life is hard. You just suck it up, and move on.

The key is not to build an organisation, and then look around for things for it to do.

Find things to do, and build organisations around those various objectives.

Usually you will need several organisations.
It's very, very hard, that's why you need experience, and professional training and qualifications to do so.

Working with volunteers is very difficult, far more difficult than with employees.
That's why you need to be on top of your game at all times.

The issue is not those who leave, but those who stay.
Some will go, some will stay, some will return, some will donate, some will send their friends and family to take their place, some will betray and become your bitterest enemies.

But above all, you must define what you want to achieve.
Once you are clear on that, then you can qualify, gain experience, and build an organisation to achieve it.

Do you want laws changed?
Fine, which ones?

Want state programmes funded/defunded? Fine. Which ones? By how much?

Where can you personally, realistically make a difference, right now?

At state level?
At county level?
At municipal level?
At District or ward level?
At suburb level?
At family level?
Just with yourself?

So now you have defined where you can operate, and what you can do.
This need not always be this way, as you improve, so you can expand your abilities and influence, but the key is to actually act in real life.

The key is to focus on doing real things.
what is being pro-White?
Talking on the internet?
Waving cloths?
Or is it helping Whites?
So what would help Whites in your area?

Take a project that you will gain across the board support for, say expanding or building a school or clinic.
You will meet many different people and groups, meet the state, meet the politicians, and so begin to become a player.

What you learn from a few such projects will enable you to begin to deal with larger issues.

I personally think the Swiss canton system is the best, and as such, my municipality is to me my canton.
That is where I focus on.
To make it as independent, self sufficient as possible.



Quote:
there has to be people who can effectively gain people's attention, inspire them, and move them to stand and act, when this begins to happen it may embolden the intellectuals, the upper class White people to say what has been on their minds, to voice their agreement.
What does act mean?
The only changes that matter are to laws and budgets.

Quote:
it takes a certain amount of desensitivity to take this path you suggest
More like determination. It's also age. I'm at the half century mark. I've been through the marches and protests, the rallies, the raging, the fighting. It made no difference.
Becoming involved in mainstream politics, formal NGO's, corporates etc has accomplished some objectives, not others.
The key though is that I am not powerless where I am, I can move and shape events where I am to an extent.

That is what matters.
A few thousand people at most is what we need, and they are there already. They just need to become focused on today, and not be so obsessed with Germany, or holocausts, or other countries, or pie in the sky dreams and ideas.
what are they doing in their own municipality/town/county/state that benefits whites right now?

Not tomorrow, not one day soon, but right now?

I am focused on the right now, where we are, with what we have.


Quote:
For me it would be impossible to stay silent because of a job, a girl, hell my life, the enemy can take a lot from a person, they cannot touch my mind or my heart.
Until you have a wife, children etc, then having a job matters.

They can touch your heart and mind. They can shred them and rip them apart and send you into a corner gibbering in terror.

The laws are now in place to arrest you without charge, put you on secret trial where you cannot see the evidence or your accusers, torture you, and execute you.

Now they are building the infrastructure. Once that is in place, the laws will begin to be enforced.

Do not think for one moment that the gulags and executions cannot happen in the US.

DHS is a mirror image of the KGB, and DHS had both Primakov, a former head of the KGB, and Wulff, former head of the Stasi, as their structural and policy advisors.

Quote:
I think there is much to be said about bringing the doers and such to our side through nationalist activism and building a movement. And certainly both avenues can be pursued at the same time, which I think is the best way to go.

Focus on objectives, not processes.
Movements, members, support all mean nothing if they have no purpose.

Not even a garden club is as aimless as the US WN movement.

What do you want to achieve, specifically where you are?
When you answer yourself that, then you are ready. Until you know what you want, you will never achieve it.
What does success look like?
At what stage would you consider your objectives met?

When you start thinking along these lines, about concrete, visible, measurable objectives, then people will take the movement seriously.

Quote:
so each person can find their best path to take - all with the same goal, different path or road, same destination.
I agree, but am not interested in those activities that have not worked for the last 70 years.

How many in the movement do you see talking about getting into government, about training, qualifying, about formal organisations, discussing ways to make real changes in real life?

Protests, rallies etc all have their place, but only work when part of a wider, deeper strategy. Till now, they have been isolated events.

Protests mean that you think the people in charge will listen to you.
If you believe that, then fine, protest.

I don't. I believe that we need to become the people in charge.

Our role models should be the unions. The USSR started its fall when the Polish working men, mostly tradesmen, dockworkers etc said enough. Then other unions followed, then the church said enough, and from then, it was game on.

Strikes, boycotts and sanctions brought down the USSR and Eastern Bloc regimes.

They work. So we need to be in a position to in need carry out strikes, sanctions and boycotts.
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Old August 11th, 2013 #25
Hugh
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Thanks Derrick, I agree fully with you.

Nations are born out of suffering, and soon the US will begin to suffer, and so become a nation.

Those who go along to get along will go along to get along whoever is in charge.
This is a struggle between leaderships.
__________________
Secede. Control taxbases/municipalities. Use boycotts, divestment, sanctions, strikes.
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Old August 11th, 2013 #26
Robert Ransdell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick Beukeboom View Post
I think what Hugh is stating is realistic, pragmatic and big picture/macro oriented. His posts are quite valuable and I hope he continues to put forth his analysis.
Lots of young whites go through the typical stages where they wake up and become agitated, idealistic, righteous, angry, mad, etc.
So being young, intelligent, moral and idealistic they want to 'do something about it'.

And they come barreling down with the all too typical nave piss and vinegar approach (not that their talking points are incorrect as we know). And the jews and socialists bury them easily.
And what do they primarily utilize as bug spray which stops Nationalism cold: financial/economic destruction.

A close 2nd place is social stigma and demonization: they have impressively equated White ethnic civil rights and nationalism as "Racism".
Again, Hugh is correct, the jews are the smartest and most clever and since they have a monopoly on media and large scale economics (thus govt. policy as well), the house always wins.
Itz a rigged game as they say.

This is why VNN's original purpose is so imperative. True, real world News that the jews don't want you to know.

Until Whites are able to have their own paradigm creating places, the jews will continue to win and win easily.
Think tanks and more academic oriented groups are out there, but the jews and socialists have mostly already infiltrated them and because many of these groups have respectable, professional members, it is relatively easy for the jews and socialists to Trojan horse and take over.

So this is basically how any positive momentum has been stopped cold in its tracks.

I believe what Hugh is explaining is that this struggle is not like a Hollywood movie. William Wallace was also stabbed in the back and quartered you know.

Yes, if you don't know what your specific stated GOAL is then you need to step back and re-think.
And with that specific goal in mind, are you prepared to take on the jews and socialists?

At minimum they will get financially ruined and stigmatized.

If you are immune to this and are viewed as a real potential threat to waking up others, they will just set you up and lie and throw you in supermax like they did with Matt Hale.

It is a very serious thing. It's real politics and real struggle. It would be easy and more the typical White natural way to have the Saxon/Celtic mentality of fighting like you see in the movies or what the old British soccer hooligans did. Just manly, teutonic oriented clashing and fighting and the best side wins.

Ah, but we are not fighting other Whites here. Re-read what Hugh wrote. We are dealing with the world's foremost tribe: they invented monotheism after all and gave it to Aryans so we would be pacified and easier to deal with.

Unless you have stated, specific goals and are truly prepared to go through the gauntlet and be unemployable, then it is likely you will want to develop the skills and mindset others have noted.

Become a professional with real skills. And not everyone needs to be an accountant or engineer.
Trades will always be needed and you can work for yourself. Plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc.
All tremendously underrated and yes, you can do these things all over the world.

You need to leave the US for what ever reason? They pay skilled people very well in Saudi Arabia and other ME countries for 1-3 year contracts.
And since you are White, you likely will oversee Phillopinos and Chinese labor and fix things they jerry rig.

Within your country, you can work within the system, get a good job, do some incremental things and have connections but you can never be open or a leader.
So this is basically the deal. Hugh's long term approach is big picture oriented and basically to lay low...I think this is where some of you younger, more idealistic nationalists have an issue with.
(we've all been there btw).

But we have to be honest with ourselves and determine what one can really do.
VNN media is something that is not given enough support and seriousness.
Lots of venting and ranting, but do you realize the potential at establishing a jew free media apparatus?

Marches, bullhorns, flags, etc...all may make you feel good, yet primarily counter productive.

Infrastructure building and networking is more valuable.

I will say that Whites are generally becoming more open to having some sort of organization which fights on behalf of them.
But you will need suits, good looking and thin women, educated attorneys and accountants, spokespeople, and journalists, writers....these people will be a counter weight to the mainstream system.

The challenge is why would these skilled, educated, marketable people work for a Nationalist organization? Why would they go through what the jews will do to them?

Answer: they won't. There is no organization in North America which can pay them and even if there are these people out there who know the score it doesn't make sense for them to use their skills for White civil rights because the jews monopolize the media.

It's a cost/benefit equation problem and always has been.
Why? Because Whites in the US have never felt that they are a specific interest group. There is no 'Nation' of Whites here. It is different in places like Flanders, Greece, Quebec, and Scotland.

So while Hispanic Unity and the National Negro College Fund receive not only Govt. grants and funds, people can donate and even receive a tax benefit write off. And they have a staff and can actually pay people and give them benefits.

GD works because Greece and the Greek people are a viable, definable Nation.

'Kwan Whites are nothing. Nothing but consumer cows and once or twice a year ethnics getting shit faced drunk on St. Patricks day or July 4th.

Amerikwa is the perfect place for rootless socialists, jews and multi-culturalists.
They have already changed the narrative in the last 20-30 years that the USA "has always been a multi-cultural place" and was never a White country.
I think both Hugh and yourself are making some very excellent points, both of you are an asset to the board here and WN as a whole in my opinion, but I think you are amiss in thinking, as I think you are (if I am wrong let me know), that no WN, some young people included, should not explore the pros and cons of being a public figure or face of the struggle.

I agree that those who do stand in a public way should not be doing so because they are "going through a stage" as you explained. They should recognize the consequences of what they are doing - note what has happened to WN in the past who have been targeted by the system, they should know that in a sense there is "no going back".

The enemy has been able to label people as they do, they have been able to create the "rules" of the society, they have been able to redefine the "norms" and such due largely because of the fact that our people have had no real alternative, they have not had an option to get behind that has fought effectively, fought on terms not defined by the enemy, they have only had kosher conservative non-racialist options. Yes the KKK and Hollywood Nazis have been there, but those groups have worked in favor of the enemy to enable them to propagate more effective propaganda for the masses - "if you oppose our policies White citizen, well line up with these people, put on your hood and seig heil". When have they ever been given a serious option that is effective in its formula and battle plan - never really, they have never had an option.

The reason the groups have failed is this in my opinion, they have lacked the leader, they have lacked the charismatic courageous figure, the man against time, that really moves a revolutionary struggle forward. All great world changing movements that have been long lasting and significant have largely been the work of one man, his energy has driven the masses to bring his ideal or worldview to victory.

We put the cart before the horse and then wonder why the Trojan Horse tactic by the Jews works for them over and over - with a strong, resolute, unquestioned leader there is no getting that past that figure - you certainly must recognize the Jews negative view of authoritarian leaders in their promotion of Democracy, they have a much easier time steering things in their preferred direction when they don't have a strong leader to deal with.

Those wishing to take a public stand must recognize that they may have to sacrifice their freedom or life, even if they play by the rules and violate no laws. I can understand your not wanting to see our people, especially our young people, go down a path where this could happen, if this is indeed true then you are a decent person for it. However reality is reality - the enemy plays by no rules that should be viewed as concrete by the nationalist, but the enemy wins if everyone is scared into silence, if the masses are not presented an alternative view to their policies and worldview, do they not?

A WN public figure doesn't need to rally our people to battle, to violence, to be effective in making an effective stand against the Jews, they can strike a blow without calling on people to rally at the fortress gates. What we need is to capitalize on the populations exasperation with the current state of things, and provide them with a realistic view of how things can change, we need to urge them to take those extra steps needed, to abandon any loyalty or allegiance to the ruling establishment, to rub it in their face at every opportunity how foolish it is to keep supporting the system, to stop sending their kids over to die for Israel, to stop thinking that simply identifying the leftists hypocrisy and double standards are going to matter, it takes them separating themselves as much as possible from this society and at the same time looking to learn more about how they have been lied to, to start to unite with others who are starting to find the truth, and inspire them to be people who will look to reach out to their friends and family.

I think that too many WN are just too pessimistic, far too pessimistic, about the White public, about the people we need to capture to win. It is a complex thing, for me to lob that criticism, because to a point I agree with those who write off the masses. The problem is I think our people consider all nominally White people as "the White public". People become disillusioned at the most deracinated Whites, the worst of the White wiggers, the most materialistic of the White upper class folks,etc. I don't even consider these people when I envision a coalition revolutionary movement made up of our folk.

The thing that many don't realize, and I think it is something one can only realize IF they actually take a public stand against the Jews, non-Whites and anti-White Whites, is that many Whites ARE sick and tired of the status quo and will support a decent White individual or group who proclaims a WN view. They are not perfect, but they also have a healthy disgust for the current establishment and they see the same stuff we do and they hate it in much the same way. They are not perfect, ideologically they are not aware of everything, they do have some hang-ups whether it be family obligations, job, whatever, but those hang-ups might be something to see eroded if they just saw a viable option emerge.

Look there are times when I can't stand the ignorance, apathy, and gullibility of our people, it is there, we should not become consumed by the reality of that to the point where we just write them all off, because the population as a whole is farther away from the worst example of deracinated Whites that our side always laments over than they are to what we want them to be. As far as the facts go I feel many, many, of them are VERY CLOSE to where the rest of us are as far as information, basic stuff, they recognize the anti-White nature of the system.

Courage is what they need, it is what we need them to acquire to bring us as a race to victory.

We need infrastructure, we need to build the capability to make the nationalist cause attractive to competent people, people with ability and intelligence.

However we must also have a gradual shift in the spirit of the time, a pro-White mindset, a White nationalist mindset, cannot just be created once all the stealth WN executives and intellectuals are ready to go to work, again making the assumption they have not forgotten about the race and focused on themselves as individuals (just an invaluable thing to consider, the individual that can put at risk the big money and fabulous prizes that comes with a position you are advocating that all of our people target is very rare, this evolution from ideological revolutionary to education and hard work to big money and powerful position to actively aiding and becoming a part of a nationalist revolution (and risking losing all that, the risk is still there in the end as it is for the public activist option) sounds good in theory but I see too many people stopping at the 3rd stage.

Now if while they were doing that they were following some charismatic leader who was making waves, perhaps building a professional organization, that while revolutionary did not conform to stereotypes, was smart in their approach, etc, is it more likely that it would keep the ideological fire burning strong enough to keep the newly well to do activist focused on the whole? I think it is a better bet than to have the successful and accomplished White fellow come to a point and say, wait, I am still alone, the population is as unresponsive as ever, as uninspired as ever, they cannot even fathom the idea of a DIFFERENT PATH, so why should I waste my time.

They might have more hope if someone has or had already started planting the seeds and started to cultivate a portion of the masses. And if one or more public activists had in some way been locked up or killed along the way by the system - well that would possibly be an even more powerful factor in their remaining committed to the fight.

Again your Whites are "nothing buts" are just wrong in my opinion, there are many Whites out there who are altogether good people, even if they are not WN. They don't all drink, they don't all fall for the Jews consumer tricks all the time, and they are not as stupid as many of us think. Many just need a few blanks filled in, a growing number at least WANT to know the truth. These people may not be perfect, they may not be the parents we want them to be, strictly governing their kids behavior so no alien influence can reach them. However they hate the fact that their having to go to work and support their family prevents them from being there - they are not happy about their kids listening to alien music and going for alien fads. And they see no hope, no promise of a better tomorrow, so they have become more lax than we prefer.

That does not mean they are hopeless, I may be a fool for believing it, but I truly think that our people are not a lost cause - and again "our people" are not the most deracinated Whites, they are not the open White traitors, you can call them White if you want, I don't consider them White.

Golden Dawn's present success is so very impressive. This does not change the fact that until the last couple years, they were hardly a blip on the radar - did you know about them, honestly did you? The only reason I knew about them was because I was a former member of the NA and Dr. Pierce had created a relationship with them, this carried on after his death, even recently a couple NA members (former members now) while on vacation in Greece actually met with GD officials, it was a very casual non-official thing (one of the former members is of Greek descent). This is the only reason I knew about them, if not for that I would have had no clue who they were.

That group STRUGGLED as OPEN PRO-WHITE NATIONALISTS for YEARS. They have had their offices bombed even before they became known and a threat to the system. The public there, even though they are probably more nationalist minded as a whole (as you mentioned) than the average White American, were not behind them, and would have reacted almost as sheepishly as the people here do when a group is labeled a "neo-Nazi" group. They drink beer, they to some extent also like "stuff" (although you are right in saying the White American is the chief offender when it comes to consumerism) but despite this GD has accomplished what they have.

They can truthfully say to the people they have worked and been established for years, that through their struggle and perserverance they have never been swayed on the issue of Greece being for Greeks. Do you think they could have accomplished what they have with no figures having made the choice years ago to commit to the nationalist fight before anything else? You know that a new party created from scratch could not have caught on, it is the fighting spirit of those people that is what has driven their success, they are experienced and seasoned revolutionaries.

You don't learn what they have in any school, you can't buy heart and dedication. They have experienced trials and tribulations and are stronger for it, their leaders have refined their programs and have been quick to apply them - THEY WERE READY FOR THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY to strike the system when it had a hiccup. This could have not been done without an established organizations and established leaders who are capable of executing a program of revolution there - and they have the years of struggle that will fuel their heart and will, nothing will hold them back, their moment is NOW, and the system has every reason to sweat because these people are cut from a different cloth, motivated by things that they have no real idea how to deal with, but through terror.

Could you imagine if one of their leaders was targeted for assassination right now? What effect would that have on the energy of their supporters? Their enemies know what the potential is, how they could lose the whole apple cart if something like that happened, kill someone from a group who are trying to feed hungry people and protect old women and children, they would see the enraged spirit of our race in Greece turned loose, don't think they don't know it - if they were so untouchable then why don't they just jail the GD people, or assassinate them all - because they are not untouchable, they also have to be careful - BUT ONLY IF AND WHEN WE AS WHITE MEN GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO CONTEND WITH -OPENLY AND IN THEIR FACE.

The main flaw in your very well thought out and reasoned argument, yet one I believe is too pessimistic on the idea of one being a public figure for the cause, is that your thinking seems to go along the lines of the scenario that we can take back our destiny as a people WITHOUT THE JEWS KNOWING ABOUT IT and that is something that I just think is outside of reality.

We will not take our nations, our world, our destiny back from the Jews in secret. They will observe our actions and moves and they will react, they will strike at us and achieve victories, they will only be final if we accept this notion that there can be no setbacks. Reality is there will be setbacks, good people may indeed be jailed without cause or worse, more outrageous and unjust measures will be implemented by them as the need arises.

The best thing we can do is remain flexible and fight on multiple fronts, have a number of things cooking.

I am not saying we can win if all of us are open and public with our views. In fact we need more people to go your way, and Hugh's, than the public way. After all if we can find "the one" we really only need one world moving figure to emerge, but since one person can always be snuffed out by the Jews we need more than just one to take a public and open WN path. But we must have some who aspire to be leaders and revolutionaries, open and proud, from the start as well.

That is the way I see it anyway, don't see my disagreement as disrespectful, you obviously care about winning as much as I do to detail your thoughts as well as you have.

Just one last point, really the only way I think I could agree that "stealth' was the one and only option that could bring down the Jews ruling establishment, the only way that I could be convinced that pursuing multiple formulas was not most beneficial for us, was if all WN aimed to become active within our military, that would be the one way I could see a resolute result and one that could be effective. If I could be convinced that encouraging open and public activism could be harmful to that effort, then and only then would I say people should stop trying to promote WN ideas publically. I have always believed that a military revolt would be the only short term option that could lead to success - of course it is, unless you have an established program of WN becoming an active part of that apparatus , a total crapshoot at this stage as far as what you would get as a result, it would be hard to convince me it would be any worse than what we have now however.
 
Old August 11th, 2013 #27
Hugh
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It's not so much stealth, as simply discretion.
In the corporate world, one learns to keep secrets, to be discreet.

There is no need to say you are pro White.
The need is for you to get into power and change laws and budgets so that they are pro-White.

Jews are few and far between at local level, and well over three quarters of all the laws that affect your life are made at municipal level.

Just as in companies your sub-ordinates do not know what you are thinking, you do not know what your boss is thinking, or the directors or the shareholders, so we must learn to be more careful about what we say.

Look to Eastern Europe and the USSR for how these things are done.

Look at European nationalist parties.

What we are doing is not new, or unique.

Unlike most in the WN movement, I am not a socialist. That's why I do not look for ideological purity, do not look for The One Leader, do not look towards centralised, hierarchical structures.

I don't care about rehabilitating dead socialists from Germany, don't care about how many Jews can fit into an oven, don't care about robes and wizards in pointed hats.

I do care about the resurgence of communism and socialism, about laws that enable the state to arrest us, torture us and execute us, about prison camps, about a militarised police, about the destruction of what was once the freest and most advanced country on earth, about the rise of China, about the EU becoming a mirror image of the USSR, about the destruction of states independence.

That's why you'll find my posts and focus quite different from many in the movement.
However, I am politically active and they are not, and since a movement must by definition move, those who are not active and moving about in real life, aren't part of any movement.

Those who can't get out onto the streets, can get involved with building our own media and communication systems, probably the most crucial step we need to make.

We need many more blogs, even if just mirror sites etc located around the world, so that if some go down, others can pick up and carry on.

I do think VNN needs to begin producing a series of essays that in time can be put into book form, like Dr Pierce used to produce each week, which could then be put out into podcasts, so that it's message can be spread easily.

Even if just monthly at first, we do need to begin formalising and summarising.
VNN is so massive, even the summaries are needing to be summarised.

The NA has ceased to exist for all practical purposes. VNN should take up the baton and run with it now.

But that's for another day.
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Old August 11th, 2013 #28
Robert Ransdell
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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Nothing. Just like a business owner who hires kids fresh out of school, trains them, helps them get a start in life, helps them get qualified, then sees them leave to go work for his competitor.
Tough. Life is hard. You just suck it up, and move on.

The key is not to build an organisation, and then look around for things for it to do.

Find things to do, and build organisations around those various objectives.

Usually you will need several organisations.
It's very, very hard, that's why you need experience, and professional training and qualifications to do so.

Working with volunteers is very difficult, far more difficult than with employees.
That's why you need to be on top of your game at all times.

The issue is not those who leave, but those who stay.
Some will go, some will stay, some will return, some will donate, some will send their friends and family to take their place, some will betray and become your bitterest enemies.

But above all, you must define what you want to achieve.
Once you are clear on that, then you can qualify, gain experience, and build an organisation to achieve it.

Do you want laws changed?
Fine, which ones?

Want state programmes funded/defunded? Fine. Which ones? By how much?

Where can you personally, realistically make a difference, right now?

At state level?
At county level?
At municipal level?
At District or ward level?
At suburb level?
At family level?
Just with yourself?

So now you have defined where you can operate, and what you can do.
This need not always be this way, as you improve, so you can expand your abilities and influence, but the key is to actually act in real life.

The key is to focus on doing real things.
what is being pro-White?
Talking on the internet?
Waving cloths?
Or is it helping Whites?
So what would help Whites in your area?

Take a project that you will gain across the board support for, say expanding or building a school or clinic.
You will meet many different people and groups, meet the state, meet the politicians, and so begin to become a player.

What you learn from a few such projects will enable you to begin to deal with larger issues.

I personally think the Swiss canton system is the best, and as such, my municipality is to me my canton.
That is where I focus on.
To make it as independent, self sufficient as possible.





What does act mean?
The only changes that matter are to laws and budgets.



More like determination. It's also age. I'm at the half century mark. I've been through the marches and protests, the rallies, the raging, the fighting. It made no difference.
Becoming involved in mainstream politics, formal NGO's, corporates etc has accomplished some objectives, not others.
The key though is that I am not powerless where I am, I can move and shape events where I am to an extent.

That is what matters.
A few thousand people at most is what we need, and they are there already. They just need to become focused on today, and not be so obsessed with Germany, or holocausts, or other countries, or pie in the sky dreams and ideas.
what are they doing in their own municipality/town/county/state that benefits whites right now?

Not tomorrow, not one day soon, but right now?

I am focused on the right now, where we are, with what we have.




Until you have a wife, children etc, then having a job matters.

They can touch your heart and mind. They can shred them and rip them apart and send you into a corner gibbering in terror.

The laws are now in place to arrest you without charge, put you on secret trial where you cannot see the evidence or your accusers, torture you, and execute you.

Now they are building the infrastructure. Once that is in place, the laws will begin to be enforced.

Do not think for one moment that the gulags and executions cannot happen in the US.

DHS is a mirror image of the KGB, and DHS had both Primakov, a former head of the KGB, and Wulff, former head of the Stasi, as their structural and policy advisors.




Focus on objectives, not processes.
Movements, members, support all mean nothing if they have no purpose.

Not even a garden club is as aimless as the US WN movement.

What do you want to achieve, specifically where you are?
When you answer yourself that, then you are ready. Until you know what you want, you will never achieve it.
What does success look like?
At what stage would you consider your objectives met?

When you start thinking along these lines, about concrete, visible, measurable objectives, then people will take the movement seriously.



I agree, but am not interested in those activities that have not worked for the last 70 years.

How many in the movement do you see talking about getting into government, about training, qualifying, about formal organisations, discussing ways to make real changes in real life?

Protests, rallies etc all have their place, but only work when part of a wider, deeper strategy. Till now, they have been isolated events.

Protests mean that you think the people in charge will listen to you.
If you believe that, then fine, protest.

I don't. I believe that we need to become the people in charge.

Our role models should be the unions. The USSR started its fall when the Polish working men, mostly tradesmen, dockworkers etc said enough. Then other unions followed, then the church said enough, and from then, it was game on.

Strikes, boycotts and sanctions brought down the USSR and Eastern Bloc regimes.

They work. So we need to be in a position to in need carry out strikes, sanctions and boycotts.
I really liked your responses to what I said that you highlighted, it is clear you have done a lot of thinking on the subject, the OP cannot say he has not had at least one well thought out and reasoned view, hopefully I am providing another one.

I agree with the concept of what you described concerning the folly of creating an organization and then "finding something to do". Your idea of having organizations and responses to specific things is the logical thing.

I am only using this example to show you I, even as someone who believes in the value of public WN stands and figures/groups, understand and agree with your mindset. I am one who has always thought that groups that stage rallies for no particular reason (like many of the pro-White rallies that take place are carried out) are not going about things in an effective way as the White public has no idea what it is about, they will not at this stage, perhaps at no stage, just gather to celebrate "White pride" in large numbers.

I think rallies are at least something that can stand a chance in gaining the support of Whites when they respond to an event (a Black on White murder, a non-White sexual assault on a White woman) that is within our ideological concerns. While they may not turn out large numbers they will indeed get the attention of Whites and many will support it, evidence can be found on comment pages, YT as well as news page sites. The rally like Mr. Linder held for Channon Christian and Chris Newsome turned out a decent number and also received a lot of support from Whites all over the country. I did not get the numbers but I know that many here were also encouraged by the rally that I held here last year as well after a White man was beaten by a gang of Blacks.

So we need people to act in response to specific issues, incidents, or assaults by the enemy on our interests. Could we also though have a organization that had as a major component an established program of sending people out to various directions in an effort to respond when needed, would that make the response that much more immediate and effective than if it didn't exist?

If I had a family or had aspirations for having one for myself then I would probably have the same view as you. I decided a few years ago however that essentially this cause is my mistress, lol, I don't think I would put the necessary attention toward the important job of parenting and being a good husband, not even talking about earning a living, etc, because I just have no other choice, I live this cause, our ideals, every day of my life, I am consumed by it, it is who I am, and I would have it no other way either.

Raising children in this current age is something I know would actually lead me to trouble quicker than taking the path I have chosen. Some school system tried to teach my child about the "virtues" of homosexuality, yeah I wouldn't be around to parent the child anyway after that. I am eternally grateful to all who find the way, they are in no way any less committed than I, but I cannot see how I would keep my sanity if, more like when, my child was in some way, even small, taken in by all the enemy's evil, I mean it is a minefield out there, in no way do the ruling establishment even foster a neutral field in which to raise healthy White kids, they are out to get their minds from the cradle almost.

It is just not for me, I know the anger I have when it is other people's children who are exposed to it, that is enough to tolerate. Again I am thankful that all do not see things as I do, we need White fathers and mothers, it is not for me though, and I can take heart in the idea that I am in some small way, at least in spirit if nothing else, am fighting for all White children's future, they are all my kids even though none are biologically.

Again we don't want too many going down this path, but in my opinion we need a few who are able and willing to accept that their purpose in service to the race might be a bit different than others.

Things that have not worked in the past 70 years may stand a chance of working in the future, if executed and presented properly, because conditions are much more grave now, people like Rockwell saw what was coming but it was very difficult for most of the people he was trying to reach to see it, and even if they did they just didn't have it impressed upon them that it was going to affect them.

Today our people, ESPECIALLY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE who have any sense, can see what is happening and they can recognize that it will indeed affect them, that they are in store for more discrimination and more demonization by the anti-White establishment, and as time passes it only becomes more evident and certain.

I know full well the enemy doesn't give a damn about what we think, protest about, etc. Fact is we need to get the White conservatives to realize this, how much time do they waste pointing out hypocrisy from the left, pointing out the double standards. We need to insist that they not stop there "yeah White conservative, they do ignore crimes against Whites, now what are you going to do about it, are you going to continue playing the "racism" con-game or are you going to recognize that the only way you win is to unite as White people, they unite Whites as the enemy, it is about time we fight as a unit and group".

Protests can help to show White people that the paradigm is shifting, the time for sitting at home is over, time to go to work, time to do as the non-Whites have done and you better get ready for a tough job because we won't have any help as they have had from the Jew media to promote our aims.

I agree that all action needs to be more prolonged and not just be one event, since the time of Rockwell we have never had a real leader or group who has been a real force in the public eye for an extended period of time. He had a plan I think, not sure if it would have lead to success, probably not, but he had his steps planned out, he was planning a run for President if I am not mistaken, always had new ideas and was not afraid to fail.

Overall I am with you on having purpose on everything we set out to do, if you don't then you cannot be viewed as serious. I myself have refused to create some out of the blue organization here even though I have had people here wanting me to do this and even had a few suggestions to do the same on this board. Just getting a mention in the news under some new name (was with the NA for 8 years up until last Oct) is not what I want and I prefer to bide my time and see what happens, there are too many organizations that have been created that have amounted to little, I am out to win and want to put a "winning vibe" forward to all I can come into contact with. If an activist needs to be asked what group they are with that week, well yeah they are not focused and without a plan to say the least.

I just don't think that there has been the option there, a quality one, during those past 70 years, one that was everything our people needed and nothing that they didn't. I think the National Alliance under Dr. Pierce had the potential, was headed in that direction until his death, but beyond that I just see a bunch of kosher conservative groups like the John Birch Society and Ron Paul and the Hollywood Nazi types - our people just haven't had the proper presentation and execution during this time to make an accurate assessment in my view.

I will leave it at that for now, have enjoyed the discussion immensely, in my view this is what these boards should be for, respectful discussion about how to win.
 
Old August 11th, 2013 #29
Robert Ransdell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
It's not so much stealth, as simply discretion.
In the corporate world, one learns to keep secrets, to be discreet.

There is no need to say you are pro White.
The need is for you to get into power and change laws and budgets so that they are pro-White.

Jews are few and far between at local level, and well over three quarters of all the laws that affect your life are made at municipal level.

Just as in companies your sub-ordinates do not know what you are thinking, you do not know what your boss is thinking, or the directors or the shareholders, so we must learn to be more careful about what we say.

Look to Eastern Europe and the USSR for how these things are done.

Look at European nationalist parties.

What we are doing is not new, or unique.

Unlike most in the WN movement, I am not a socialist. That's why I do not look for ideological purity, do not look for The One Leader, do not look towards centralised, hierarchical structures.

I don't care about rehabilitating dead socialists from Germany, don't care about how many Jews can fit into an oven, don't care about robes and wizards in pointed hats.

I do care about the resurgence of communism and socialism, about laws that enable the state to arrest us, torture us and execute us, about prison camps, about a militarised police, about the destruction of what was once the freest and most advanced country on earth, about the rise of China, about the EU becoming a mirror image of the USSR, about the destruction of states independence.

That's why you'll find my posts and focus quite different from many in the movement.
However, I am politically active and they are not, and since a movement must by definition move, those who are not active and moving about in real life, aren't part of any movement.

Those who can't get out onto the streets, can get involved with building our own media and communication systems, probably the most crucial step we need to make.

We need many more blogs, even if just mirror sites etc located around the world, so that if some go down, others can pick up and carry on.

I do think VNN needs to begin producing a series of essays that in time can be put into book form, like Dr Pierce used to produce each week, which could then be put out into podcasts, so that it's message can be spread easily.

Even if just monthly at first, we do need to begin formalising and summarising.
VNN is so massive, even the summaries are needing to be summarised.

The NA has ceased to exist for all practical purposes. VNN should take up the baton and run with it now.

But that's for another day.
This is not because I do not feel like responding to this in detail, I would if I felt it necessary, but I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything here, very well put on every point.

Just like with Whites who decry government attempts to force "fair housing" on them, no law makes an INTELLIGENT White person rent to non-Whites or anyone not of his choosing for that matter. Sure you are bound for trouble if you publically say "well I am not renting to Black people" or if you say that to a Black person who says they are interested in the apartment,etc. The government cannot read you mind and neither can the non-White and the intelligent White person gives them an application, kindly accepts it back, and thanks them for their interests and tells them they will hear back if necessary. What is there for White people to complain about it they go about it in that way? I mean Whites who are not even racially conscious do this as a matter of good financial sense.

So being discreet as you said, the way to go many times, keep it subtle and you can still accomplish many things.

While I am a national socialist just by nature really, I do not reject the idea that another path may be necessary in this country, perhaps in many other White countries. As long as a WN does not compromise on two main issues, racial separation and the Jewish problem then I see no reason to start any rival battles over one ideology over another. I hate Democracy personally, but will also say that it is only as harmful as it is today because of the Jewish control of the media and banking, in a White country it probably would not be harmful at all, I think it could limit the ceiling on the potential of that nation, but the fact is many strong and altogether healthy White nations in the past have been Democratic, wasn't it the Greeks who coined the term?

I am also not religious but at the same don't think we should divide the race, certainly not at this stage if ever, on the basis of religion. Trying to argue that religion has killed millions of our people over time only alienates many who are concerned about today, where are people are today, who may at the same time be religious people. Many Whites who today are religious and who say and do things that are not good for the race are again that way because of the Jewish control of the society overall.

So we agree there as well. Yes another time, don't feel as if you need to respond to this, enjoyed reading and replying back very much today.
 
Old October 7th, 2013 #30
Hellenic Pagan
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Not sure what the sites policy is on advertising, if the Admin. could contact me via PM, I may have some useful activist links to pass on.
 
Old April 14th, 2014 #31
Dane Black
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Default Great ideas!

I think you have to figure that with the goal and need of building a Nationalist Party here in the US you will have to build the foundation of leadership on the downlow. You can't attract too much attention right away.

I think the organization would like Golden Dawn have to have a security apparatus, a political arm like Sinn Fein with the IRA and you will have to like golden dawn and BNP offer social solidarity which will get people sitting on the fence to support it.

You can easily swarm party precinct caucuses and force your own candidates onto the ballots. On the local level it is fairly easy if you can stay under the radar to force your way onto the ballot. You need to get people into local offices to start influencing and pressing your agenda.
 
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