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Old October 26th, 2013 #1
Joe_Smith
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This is the new generation of social-nationalists, these are some very dedicated and ballsy activists who openly name the Jew without theatrics and idiocy. This is the Golden Dawn of the United States if they continue forward. I highly recommend everyone here donate, attend their protests, and support their efforts every way possible.


http://www.tradyouth.org/

Traditional Youth Network take on Jewish hate-mongerer Tim Wise


In the thick of it against the Judeo-Left in Pennsylvania


Against Jew Tim Wise at the University Of Cincinnati

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Old October 31st, 2013 #2
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Trad Youth Activists take on Tim Wise in conference: "You're not white, you're a jew!"

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"The favorite slogan of the reds is: 'No Pasarán!: Yes we have passed! And we tell them...and we tell them, we will pass again!'"
― Benito Mussolini after the Communist capitulation in Barcelona
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #3
AJG
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Trad Youth Activists take on Tim Wise in conference: "You're not white, you're a jew!"
That's our own Robert Ransdell. Kudos to him for all his hard work and having the balls to do it.
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Old October 31st, 2013 #4
Alex Linder
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[Heimbach's own words]

Traditionalist Catholics, Christ’s Radicals Under Siege

October 22, 2013 in Commentary

Traditionalist Catholicism is the largest organized force in the United States against organized Jewry, and most folks in the White Right do not even realize it. Estimates put the number of radical Traditionalist Catholics in the United States alone at between 100,000 and 150,000 members, a truly staggering number when one compares it to membership rolls in both Left and Right wing organizations. Traditionalist Catholics refuse to accept the Jewish perversion of Christendom and stand against the combined forces of modernity. “Trad Cats” are a force to be reckoned with and could become reliable allies of White advocates.

The Catholic Church prior to the corruption of Vatican II was a powerful force for Christendom and European civilization. While my soul belongs to the Orthodox Church, my Catholic upbringing will always ensure my personal love of true Catholicism. The Church helped organize and fund Franco and the nationalists in the fight against the communists in Spain, led the voice of nationalism in America with Father Charles Coughlin, and lent the largest amount of support to the National Socialists as the Party was being elected to office. Even after World War II the Church under the leadership of bishops and cardinals helped evacuate fascists and National Socialists out of the Allied controlled zones to freedom. Catholicism showed the world that it was a power for nationalism and was the beating heart of much of Western Europe’s spirituality, and that is why the modernists had to destroy it.

Catholicism prior to the infiltration by Jews, Soviet Union undercover agents, and the push of modernity in the post-WWII period was a powerful force for Tradition. Anything that was nationalist, interested in racial preservation, or grounded in Tradition was in the cross hairs. A concentrated effort to dismantle Traditionalist priests was undertaken from the Jewish controlled orders such as the Jesuits and the growing power of communist subversion.

The Second Vatican Council was the Church’s attempt to “modernize” the liturgy and the Church as a whole. Through destroying Tradition and abandoning almost two thousand years of experience, the Church attempted to meet the world half way, and that was the biggest mistake of the Church since the schism of 1054. Priests by the hundreds took off their collars and retired as parishes and congregations fled the Church that was radically different from the spiritual home of their upbringing. Overnight the Establishment Catholic Church transformed itself into another sick reflection of the modern world, a carnival mirror look at what Christendom used to represent.

All was not lost however for Tradition in the halls of the Catholic Church, a large number of priests and laity refused to bow to the orders from the compromised bishop of Rome. The writings of Father Denis Fahey and Father Leonard Feeney alongside the centuries of Church Tradition built the framework for Traditionalists to arise and resist the decrees of the Establishment Church.

It should not surprise anyone who understands the role of organized Jewry in their two millennia struggle to destroy the Church that the ultimate prize of the Jews is to dismantle Christendom. Secular White nationalists can recognize that the only group that organized Jewry wants to destroy more than the White race is the most Holy and blessed Church, in all of its forms. From tearing down the ten commandments from the public sphere when a Baptist puts them up, to subverting and corrupting the Catholic Church, and attempting to attack and mislead the Orthodox Church, all of Christendom is under attack from the Devil and his puppets.

Both Catholic and Orthodox prophecy declares that as we near the End Times, corruption will take root as the spirits of men become more easily corrupted. The Devil and his legions of minions, both willing and the deceived, will work to dismantle the Church to advance his agenda. While the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion may not be exact transcriptions of the enemy, they clearly outline exactly how the Judeo-Masonic forces will work to steer global politics, finance, culture, and the Church towards the agenda of Satan and his war against all that is Holy. I recommend to all Traditionalists the book The Plot Against The Church to help explain this situation further.

The Devil is attacking the Church for the same reason he is attacking the White race, both have been standard bearers for the Holy Gospel and defenders of Truth for nearly 2,000 years, and that is opposition that the Devil and all of his forces cannot let stand.

The changes pushed by the liberal Catholic Establishment that included the removal of the prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel, the banning of using nearly 2,000 years of Tradition in regards to the Jews, and changing the liturgy away from Latin and dozens of other serious scramblings of doctrine left many Traditionalists with only two choices: bunker down in a parish with a Traditionalist priest and ignore the transformation of the Church or to join together and keep the flame of Tradition burning.

The Society of Saint Pius X is perhaps the most well known, and one of my favorite, Traditionalist Catholic groups. SSPX was for me personally the biggest way I began to open my eyes to the Jewish Question and the advance of the enemies agenda. The homosexual movement, abortion, liberalism, and all of the other points of the enemy are built to spit upon God and his standards, and through the reading of SSPX priests and other Traditionalist Catholics my understanding of this battle for the survival of our civilization as being a Holy Crusade was ignited. SSPX helps lead the way forward for Traditionalists who wish to remain loyal to the Catholic Church of their ancestors, and with that I see a great potential for Traditionalist Catholics to come to Orthodoxy as allies against a common foe.

The Society of Saint Pius X has refused to compromise with modernity, even when it seemed like the easiest path. Many of the priests have stood strong on supporting Francisco Franco and the fascist movements of the 20th century. Father Tam is just one of these such priests who stated that fascist values are “the real values” of the Church. Refusing to speak to Satanic “faiths” such as Islam would be common sense in mainstream Christianity a century ago, but now only a select few stand against the lies of the modernists.

Due to the recent push by Pope Francis to liberalize the Church even further, hardline Traditionalist Catholics are taking a stand now more than ever to rise up and resist the influences of modernity. The Vatican recently announced that SS Veteran Erich Priebke was not to be given a Catholic funeral due to his sins in life. As a Christian I find the idea that the Church would bow to political correctness when we are all sinners and “filthy rags” in comparison to the glory of Christ and his sinless life. SSPX came and asserted itself as being true heirs to the spirit of Christ by offering to hold his funeral and brave the international condemnation of the Jews and political correctness. A SSPX church held a commemorative mass for Mr. Priebke last Saturday in Treviso, northern Italy and is deeply involved in giving Mr. Priebke the Christian burial that he deserves.

The leadership of SSPX has declared that they are “glad” that they did not rejoin Rome because that would mean they would have to answer to Pope Francis, a man seemingly dedicated to uprooting Tradition. The purpose of the Church is to save souls, to fight the Devil, and to advance the Kingdom of God, not do outreach to the forces of Satan and pander to secularists. As mega churches and priests and preachers who try to pander to greed, lust, and shallowness drive away the faithful, more and more Catholics are flooding the pews of Traditionalist Churches, both Catholic and Orthodox in the seeking for Tradition and a stalwart defense of true Christian beliefs.

All of us in our lives must remember the calling of Christians, Tribe, Tradition, and Trinity. Groups like SSPX and the Orthodox Church will continue to stick to their guns and stand against modernity, as we all should. We must serve the honorable memories of our ancestors, the blood that runs in our veins, and the Almighty and ever loving God who created us and leads us in this time of darkness. While Satan may appear to be winning, just like the communists who take to the streets, their victory of short lived. The forces of Truth are rallying, our Cause is just, and Our Day Will Come.

http://www.tradyouth.org/2013/10/tra...s-under-siege/
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #5
Alex Linder
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Secular White nationalists can recognize that the only group that organized Jewry wants to destroy more than the White race is the most Holy and blessed Church, in all of its forms.

This guy is not who I thought he was at all.

I didn't realize Golden Dawn was primarily a religious organization, Joe. Are you sure about that?

Last edited by Alex Linder; October 31st, 2013 at 01:20 PM.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #6
M.N. Dalvez
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Consider the fact that Griffin was, until pretty recently, using his association with Heimbach (who for the god-bothering tone, which is undesirable, seems to be doing some good activism, and who is attacking the right targets) to build himself up as a serious activist for the first time in his life.

That is, until Heimbach was thrown under the bus for 'associating with the NSM'. At that point, Griffin's association and activism with Heimbach became a thing of the past pretty rapidly, didn't it?

From a pariah associate of anti jews, to a 'serious activist' - in a year or less. Bill White all over again.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #7
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.N. Dalvez View Post
Consider the fact that Griffin was, until pretty recently, using his association with Heimbach (who for the god-bothering tone, which is undesirable, seems to be doing some good activism, and who is attacking the right targets) to build himself up as a serious activist for the first time in his life.

That is, until Heimbach was thrown under the bus for 'associating with the NSM'. At that point, Griffin's association and activism with Heimbach became a thing of the past pretty rapidly, didn't it?

From a pariah associate of anti jews, to a 'serious activist' - in a year or less. Bill White all over again.
No, he's not anything like Bill White. Believe me. Two different men with very different strengths and weaknesses.

Griffin is going with Hill and LOS. The problem here is that LOS is founded on the wrong principles. Hill is basically running a DAR for Southerners. Griffin is trying to shift that some, make LOS more ideological and activist, which is good. The problem is that the LOS is set wrong. There's nothing you can do but reset it on the right principles, and, given it's been around a long time, that's probably not possible. Also, given Griffin's intellectual shape-shifting in the past, it is doubtful he places the premium on ideas and consistency that I do, so that he will not think that consistency really matters. People who sort of think the same way, who get to know one another, will somehow stumble through to success.

Heimbach makes it clear religion is above race for him. That's his decision. But claiming that the church is somehow pro-white or its prospects are tied up with white success, which he's implicitly claiming, is factually wrong. The church is institutionally and dogmatically universalist. Heimbach may make a distinction between a white man and a colored, but his church does not. He doesn't see any problem there. But there is a problem there! What isn't overtly pro-white is anti-white, and the church's entire history demonstrates that. All the church ever cares about is converting non-whites - since all men are spiritually equal and equally in need of Our Lord Jebus and His One True Path to Salvation. Clearly, Heimbach believes this himself.

The background for his views is the traditional hatred Catholics have for the US due to its being founded by non-Catholics and becoming a great success. Get the people back under the peodophiles, and outlaw free markets. That's what they want. Their way doesn't work anywhere except maybe jerkwater Italy, but least of all is it fitting for Whites in the US. Joe likes it because as a communist he's appreciates the idea of people being bossed around, whether by commissars or priests. He simply can't stomach the idea of white men not being micromanaged by some command center.

Both Griffin and Heimbach are doing good when they confront jew Wise and his ilk and hold rallies, there's no doubt about that. What I'm arguing is that basis from which they proceed is untenable, if your mission is to regain white independence. One puts region over race, the other puts religion over race. It should be the reverse. Race trumps everything else.

Last edited by Alex Linder; October 31st, 2013 at 01:39 PM.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #8
Joe_Smith
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Secular White nationalists can recognize that the only group that organized Jewry wants to destroy more than the White race is the most Holy and blessed Church, in all of its forms.

This guy is not who I thought he was at all.

I didn't realize Golden Dawn was primarily a religious organization, Joe. Are you sure about that?
Regardless of Matt Heimbach's personal religious convictions, he does not exclude anyone over religion and has made it clear that we have to work together as a race regardless of faith. He makes that very clear in his KSS speech, I've spoken to him personally on many occasions where he has said the same to me. Matt Heimbach and his group come from an Evolian background, which arguably is pan-theist, even Agnostic (but this is up for debate) .

Another thing to note is that while Orthodox Christianity is not ideal, it ain't Francis' Vatican or one of the Protestant churches. Orthodox Christianity still has good positions on fags, Jews, and many clergy people are nationalists (you see a lot of them coming out to support Golden Dawn in Greece and nationalists in other Eastern European countries). Historically Orthodox churches have been safe-guarders of ethnic culture in times of occupation such as under the Ottoman Turks.


Quote:
Heimbach makes it clear religion is above race for him. That's his decision. But claiming that the church is somehow pro-white or its prospects are tied up with white success, which he's implicitly claiming, is factually wrong. The church is institutionally and dogmatically universalist. That right there is enough to prove that it's anti-white. The background for his views is the traditional hatred Catholics have for the US due to its being founded by non-Catholics and becoming a great success. Get the people back under the peodophiles, and outlaw free markets. That's what they want. It doesn't work anywhere, but least of all does it work in America. Joe likes it because as a communist he's appreciates the idea of people being bossed around, whether by commissars or priests.
Personally I am an agnostic. I can say without a doubt that the Libertarian streak in American white nationalism is its biggest flaw, thanks to the strong Conservative roots of many English-speaking WN's. It's true that Christianity is Universalist, but not in the same way Judaic and materialistic way 18th-19th century economic theories like free markets are. Christianity does not satisfy anything in my soul, it's an incomplete religion that childishly writes off gaping logical inconsistencies by saying they're mysteries of Christ, but if it works for someone else then that is their business.

You can call me a Communist if you'd like, but your wild blanket accusations against Christians are something that happens more often in Trotskyite circles rather than racialist ones. Your spot on in analysis on a variety of issues, but incredibly flawed with your Randian economic theories and in-your-face Atheism.

There are way more problems with the fact that the formulators of your economic worldview are a bunch of humanistic Jews trying (and succeeding) to overthrow the Aryan warrior class and replace them with Jewish junk peddlers, than there is with Heimbach's faith.
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― Benito Mussolini after the Communist capitulation in Barcelona

Last edited by Joe_Smith; October 31st, 2013 at 02:21 PM.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #9
Alex Linder
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Regardless of Matt Heimbach's personal religious convictions, he does not exclude anyone over religion and has made it clear that we have to work together as a race regardless of faith.
The problem with that is: "Mit Brennender Sorge." The traditionalist church he supports put that out, not the Vatican II liberals.

The church is threatened by racial collectivism far more than anti-racial jewish communism. The church will work WITH the communists, with the jews, before it will ever work with racialists, and that's what history shows - again, before any of this modernism Heimbach rightly hates.

Heimbach is trying, like so many before him, to pretend there's no inherent contradiction between his religion and his racial beliefs. If whites need a religion, it can't be a general one like catholicism, and must be a specific one like judaism. Judaism is for jews. Only. Catholicism is for everybody.

There's no way to get around that. Heimbach's type only tries because they have an emotional connection to the church, and they let that override the logic of the situation.

Quote:
Another thing to note is that while Orthodox Christianity is not ideal, it ain't Francis' Vatican or one of the Protestant churches. Orthodox Christianity still has good positions on fags, Jews, and many clergy people are nationalists (you see a lot of them coming out to support Golden Dawn in Greece and nationalists in other Eastern European countries). Historically Orthodox churches have been safe-guarders of ethnic culture in times of occupation such as under the Ottoman Turks.
The hierachy of GOC attacks and denounces Golden Dawn. A few priests here and there support. Fine, work with them. But don't kid yourself that the organization is friendly or neutral when it's hostile. By its own dogma! Christianity isn't just FOR everybody, it's NEEDED by everybody. It's not optional, by their dogma. Every hominid must have it.

Quote:
Personally I am an agnostic. I can say without a doubt that the Libertarian streak in American white nationalism is its biggest flaw, thanks to the strong Conservative roots of many English-speaking WN's.
I'm heartened to hear about this streak, I certainly haven't observed it, although I've championed it. It wasn't the market that opened US borders, it was the jews. That always gets overlooked. The market will accept racial constraints without a problem, just as it will be delighted with sound money - apart from a few banker counterfeiters, who will be executed or jailed. No need for building giant bureaucracies to micromanage a competent white population, either. When the shitscum of society isn't subsidized, why, there will suddenly be a lot less of it. That's a law. And it's just as valid for whites as for niggers. If you want to call that liberatarianism, feel free, but it's the smart way to go. We aren't Greeks here, divided 50-50 between tax cheats and government employees. At least not yet. Markets work. No ideology can get around that truth.

Quote:
It's true that Christianity is Universalist, but not in the same way Judaic and materialistic way 18th-19th century economic theories like free markets are.
Markets are hardly a theory, they're a reality. The brotherhood of man is a theory. The need for Jebus' salvation is a theory. Markets are absolutely real and all history shows that. The problem is not the market, it's government intervention in the market through regulation and money dilution.

Quote:
Christianity does not satisfy anything in my soul, it's an incomplete religion that childishly writes off gaping logical inconsistencies by saying they're mysteries of Christ, but if it works for someone else then that is their business.
It's not just a matter of private belief when it has social effects. At the very least, in a white state, no church should have any kind of tax privilege. And of course, no church should be allowed to advocate undermining the racial basis of the state. But this points up the problem: the church is inherently anti-white. That can't be evaded, though many WN try.

Quote:
You can call me a Communist if you'd like, but your wild blanket accusations against Christians are something that happens more often in Trotskyite circles rather than racialist ones.
Exactly - they reflect an ideological, or principled approach. As opposed to the well-whatever school that is conservatism. The conservatives love to repeat, or did in the old days, that ideas have consequences, and that is correct, but they don't live by that. When the christian says race isn't important, all men are spiritually equal, I take that seriously. This guy is a threat to me and mine because of his beliefs and the institution that promulgates them. There's no way around that. The Nazis underestimated the danger of the church, and Golden Dawn must be careful not to do the same thing.

Quote:
Your spot on in analysis on a variety of issues, but incredibly flawed with your Randian economic theories and in-your-face Atheism.
Your way has been tried and failed. My way can work. Racial dictatorship without micromanaging the details - ie, leaving them to markets. Not just WHITE man, but white MAN. That's the way to go. It fits American experience and capacities. Notice I don't prescribe anything for Greece, because I don't know it that well yet, but it sure looks to me that running the entire economy through the state has worked out there the way socialism always does: totalitarian control by a white-hostile minority. Same in Canada. Same in Sweden. Becoming same in US.

Quote:
There are way more problems with the fact that the formulators of your economic worldview are a bunch of humanistic Jews trying (and succeeding) to overthrow the Aryan warrior class and replace them with Jewish junk peddlers, than there is with Heimbach's faith.
See, you can't refute my views, you simply and falsely attribute them to jews, when they have nothing to do with jews, they are simply laws of the market, availabe to anyone to observe or to ignore.

Heimbach's faith isn't even attractive to people in his own religion, let alone anyone who doesn't believe in their jewish science fiction hero.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #10
Craig Dillard
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Alex,

Quote:
But claiming that the church is somehow pro-white or its prospects are tied up with white success, which he's implicitly claiming, is factually wrong. The church is institutionally and dogmatically universalist. Heimbach may make a distinction between a white man and a colored, but his church does not. He doesn't see any problem there. But there is a problem there! What isn't overtly pro-white is anti-white, and the church's entire history demonstrates that.
The Orthodox Christian approach to identity and ethnicity is 180 degrees from the Catholic and Protestant positions. Orthodoxy is designed from the ground up to operate tribally, bolstering rather than undermining identity.

This is not merely theory or wishful thinking. As Joe noted, the Orthodox Church's record on this account is very impressive. For centuries, Orthodox "ethnarchs" maintained ethnic identity groups through the darkest hours of foreign imperial control during the Ottoman Empire, and are peaches and cream with (if not drivers of) the Jew-wise Traditionalism and nationalism on display in Eastern Europe.

Not to get ecclesiastical with skeptics, but the papal supremacy issue at the root of the schism trickles down to two incompatible approaches to ordering humanity. Under the Catholic model, the power structure is necessary pyramidal and universal. Under the Orthodox model, the power structure is universally particularist (pluriversal, as the European New Right say).

Strong tribal identities threaten Catholic and Protestant churches. They create power bases which threaten the pinnacle, and serve as barriers to expanding their dominion. It's no surprise that Christianity's seen in the West as diametrically opposed to tribal solidarity. It is.

In contrast, strong tribal identities strengthen the Orthodox churches. A good share of Orthodox adherents are skeptics, but to be Greek is to be Greek Orthodox, to be Romanian is to be Romanian Orthodox, and so on.

Quote:
Heimbach makes it clear religion is above race for him.
Since Orthodoxy dovetails with and strengthens identity, it's a false dilemma. It's like demanding that one be more loyal to affordable cheeseburgers than to McDonald's. Since McDonald's is the uncontested ne plus ultra of affordable cheeseburgers, it's a mute point.

Just as McDonald's business model is all about affordable cheeseburgers, the Orthodox Church defines itself relative to the rest of Christianity by its opposition to papal supremacy and its concomitant ecclesiastical tradition: a tradition that's compatible with our temporal racial interests.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #11
Chad Wentworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Dillard View Post
Alex,



The Orthodox Christian approach to identity and ethnicity is 180 degrees from the Catholic and Protestant positions. Orthodoxy is designed from the ground up to operate tribally, bolstering rather than undermining identity.

This is not merely theory or wishful thinking. As Joe noted, the Orthodox Church's record on this account is very impressive. For centuries, Orthodox "ethnarchs" maintained ethnic identity groups through the darkest hours of foreign imperial control during the Ottoman Empire, and are peaches and cream with (if not drivers of) the Jew-wise Traditionalism and nationalism on display in Eastern Europe.

Not to get ecclesiastical with skeptics, but the papal supremacy issue at the root of the schism trickles down to two incompatible approaches to ordering humanity. Under the Catholic model, the power structure is necessary pyramidal and universal. Under the Orthodox model, the power structure is universally particularist (pluriversal, as the European New Right say).

Strong tribal identities threaten Catholic and Protestant churches. They create power bases which threaten the pinnacle, and serve as barriers to expanding their dominion. It's no surprise that Christianity's seen in the West as diametrically opposed to tribal solidarity. It is.

In contrast, strong tribal identities strengthen the Orthodox churches. A good share of Orthodox adherents are skeptics, but to be Greek is to be Greek Orthodox, to be Romanian is to be Romanian Orthodox, and so on.



Since Orthodoxy dovetails with and strengthens identity, it's a false dilemma. It's like demanding that one be more loyal to affordable cheeseburgers than to McDonald's. Since McDonald's is the uncontested ne plus ultra of affordable cheeseburgers, it's a mute point.

Just as McDonald's business model is all about affordable cheeseburgers, the Orthodox Church defines itself relative to the rest of Christianity by its opposition to papal supremacy and its concomitant ecclesiastical tradition: a tradition that's compatible with our temporal racial interests.
Nope, the Orthodox Church as an institution is as Christian as it can get (black saints and all). It's close to protestantism in many ways. It always does what it's told by temporal strongmen. Any disobedience is always individual, not institutional. The institution will keep quiet and dissociate itself from any type of opinion that goes against modern degeneracy. Nationalism for the Christian Orthodox Church is a heresy, it's called phyletism.

Last edited by Chad Wentworth; October 31st, 2013 at 05:44 PM.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #12
Alex Linder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Dillard View Post
Alex,

The Orthodox Christian approach to identity and ethnicity is 180 degrees from the Catholic and Protestant positions. Orthodoxy is designed from the ground up to operate tribally, bolstering rather than undermining identity.

This is not merely theory or wishful thinking. As Joe noted, the Orthodox Church's record on this account is very impressive. For centuries, Orthodox "ethnarchs" maintained ethnic identity groups through the darkest hours of foreign imperial control during the Ottoman Empire, and are peaches and cream with (if not drivers of) the Jew-wise Traditionalism and nationalism on display in Eastern Europe.

Not to get ecclesiastical with skeptics, but the papal supremacy issue at the root of the schism trickles down to two incompatible approaches to ordering humanity. Under the Catholic model, the power structure is necessary pyramidal and universal. Under the Orthodox model, the power structure is universally particularist (pluriversal, as the European New Right say).

Strong tribal identities threaten Catholic and Protestant churches. They create power bases which threaten the pinnacle, and serve as barriers to expanding their dominion. It's no surprise that Christianity's seen in the West as diametrically opposed to tribal solidarity. It is.

In contrast, strong tribal identities strengthen the Orthodox churches. A good share of Orthodox adherents are skeptics, but to be Greek is to be Greek Orthodox, to be Romanian is to be Romanian Orthodox, and so on.


Since Orthodoxy dovetails with and strengthens identity, it's a false dilemma. It's like demanding that one be more loyal to affordable cheeseburgers than to McDonald's. Since McDonald's is the uncontested ne plus ultra of affordable cheeseburgers, it's a mute point.

Just as McDonald's business model is all about affordable cheeseburgers, the Orthodox Church defines itself relative to the rest of Christianity by its opposition to papal supremacy and its concomitant ecclesiastical tradition: a tradition that's compatible with our temporal racial interests.
That's a bunch of theory, Craig. In reality, the Orthodox don't do anything for us, and do lots against us. Christian theory could support any position, but in practice, it serves whoever is strongest. It's only real principle is it wants as many customers as it can get, and it doesn't care in the least where they come from. Like McDonalds.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #13
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The best you can get from Greek Orthodox church is:

- a priest blesses some new office
- a priest tells a reporter, maybe admitting millions of third worlders isn't the best thing for Greece.

These are at most neutral services or common-sense observations. But the denunciations of Golden Dawn are sharp and specific and repeated, and they come not from some random individual preacher, but from the very top of the institution.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #14
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Originally Posted by Chad Wentworth View Post
Nope, the Orthodox Church as an institution is as Christian as it can get (black saints and all). It's close to protestantism in many ways. It always does what it's told by temporal strongmen. Any disobedience is always individual, not institutional. The institution will keep quiet and dissociate itself from any type of opinion that goes against modern degeneracy. Nationalism for the Orthodox Christian Church is a heresy, it's called phyletism.
Very well said.

If whiteness is important to the church, to any subdivision thereof, why isn't the white race mentioned anywhere in its teachings?

Because it's NOT important. To the church.

One man is as good as another to the jebus cult.

The only way to make it seem as though race is important to the church to talk about what the church did in the centuries when most of its members were white. That way you can confuse people that a particular and fleeting circumstance - most christians being white (no longer the case) -- is proof of a transcendent principle. It was NEVER the church defending whites, it was ALWAYS whites defending the church.

So it is today. Greece is under attack. The Greek Orthodox Church sides with...the attackers. The GRO doesn't care what a Greek is. Anyone who comes in its doors is welcome. Just as with any other christian sect.

Orthodoxy, in days of old, used white men to defend itself; that they may have been defending themselves as the same time was accidental - as events today prove. Otherwise the GRO would be out there on the barriers alongside Golden Dawn, screaming "Greece for Greeks." But they aren't.

The real rhetorical question is: Is there anything the christian church can do that you apologists will hold it accountable for? The answer is, no. There is not. Not a thing. You will continue to defend the church, no matter what it does, all because you like the church. You even know what you're saying is irrational and politically counterindicated, but you'll keep spouting nonsense because you want to believe the church is what you think it should be rather than what all history shows it is. There is literally no other reason. Your reasons are nothing but camouflage for your emotional disturbances.

The church is built on proto-Enlightenment crankery, and it will go down precisely the way Raspail indicated.

Defending our race from christianity is what we should be doing. Not helping it attack us by whitewashing its historical record and covering up its anti-white dogmas.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #15
Alex Linder
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Joe says my approach is similar to trotskyites. Didn't the Trotskyites make the christians their bitches? They sure did. Today the crizzlers run off to fight the jews' wars. To make the world safe for jewish racism.

We should take a tip from the commies. Treat the christians with the disrespect they deserve. That's the way to win their hearts. Obviously.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #16
Alex Linder
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A subtler point is that just because the SSPX and other tinier groups oppose Vatican II doesn't mean they support racialism. In fact, they don't.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #17
Robert Ransdell
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Not as well known, but just as willing to confront the enemy anywhere at anytime, is a fellow by the name of Thomas Buhls. He is a member of Trad Youth, was at the Indiana St. and UC Tim Wise protest, and has been a virtual one man WN army on the IU campus for a couple years.

He is the fellow in the tan coat with sunglasses, this kind of thing takes balls of steel.

 
Old October 31st, 2013 #18
Robert Ransdell
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I met Matt Heimbach for the first time after my little crashing of the Tim Wise event here in Cincinnati about a week ago. Even though I am not a member of Trad Youth I was thrilled they made it down here to follow up their action against Tim Wise at Indiana State. I was disappointed in myself that I was not able to join them earlier in the afternoon due to work obligations but it ended up working out well, the campus police forbid them from entering the venue, I believe I was able to get in because I was not seen there with them earlier in the day/evening.

The Trad Youth folks who came down gathered with myself and a few other local WN at a restaurant afterward and I came away with a very positive view of the man. Matt will openly admit that his political beliefs have evolved rather quickly over the past few years, he saw the kosher conservative path for what it is and was attracted to a more radical and direct approach with our enemies. One thing that must be remembered is this man is in his early 20's, I think it is impressive that he recognized the dead end that conservatism represents relative to dealing with the reality of the state of affairs today, many don't understand this until they are in their 40's, if ever.

While he did talk about theology a bit during the discussion, he never pressed his beliefs on anyone, and almost the entire discussion of religion had to deal with the Jews and their negative effect on the church. Again he is still relatively young and was raised in a conservative religious family, not sure you can expect someone from this background to just abandon it completely, as it is he has a lot of things going for him that most religious conservatives don't, guts, he is racially aware, and he recognizes the Jewish problem.

I am neutral on religion myself (also not as well versed on the topic as a number of posters on the thread here), I am not religious but also think it is unwise to use it at this stage as something that is divisive, I respect the beliefs of those who have a negative view as they can cite historical failings of the Christian faith and its negative effect on the race but feel that debate needs to be rectified after we deal with the problems we face at the moment. We need numbers eventually to win and alienating people that would otherwise be with you on the basis of attacking religion is just not something I think leads to ultimate victory. I think we can recruit and make progress, win even, without even bringing religion up, one way or the other.

I did not come away from my contact with him feeling as if he would dismiss anyone who did not profess a Christian mindset. To be fair no one challenged him on theology, not sure if he would put religion over race if he was challenged by an anti-religious WN, but I don't think he himself would challenge an anti-religious or non-religious WN to adopt his particular religious beliefs. If this is true I have no concern with his religious beliefs.

There was also a good deal of discussion about National Socialism and AH. He is not afraid of the subject and does not treat the philosophy or man as untouchable like many of religious conservatives, he had many positive things to say and was not critical of NS or AH at any time whatsoever.

He is not someone with a inflated ego, very down to earth person. He admits he is still learning everyday, I thought this was an impressive thing about him. He has made a big splash with his activity in his short time in the movement but he has the humility to admit that he still is open to learning, he doesn't come off as someone who believes that he alone holds the answers to victory.

He did not come off as negative or pessimistic, did not have a negative thing to say about any WN group, individual or board. He and his group seems hell bent on confronting the enemy and is not afraid to coordinate with any and all individuals and groups that champion WN ideals and beliefs who are willing to get out there on the streets and champion our message.

I have always been one that has believed that we can straighten out ideological differences as far as religion, economic policy, etc, after we deal with our eternal and sworn enemies, the Jews. Aside from the fact that I was never made to believe that Heimbach was trying to convert anyone at the table to his religion and that he did not condemn anyone who spoke positively about Adolf Hitler and National Socialism (he led the conversation on this topic at times in fact) I believe that he has it right to see our enemies as the main focus of attention for our people. I have run into a lot of conservative Christians that really have turned me off with their squimishness concerning Adolf Hitler and their non-stop religious banter, he was not one of these types, at least he did not come off that way to me in the time I spent with him and the others.

I am not sure if it is his intent, but his willingness to work with a broad spectrum of different groups and individuals within our movement could really be a positive in my mind. While I can admit that some groups might have some adjustments to make with their presentation, what hope do we have for them to make that happen if we have this sort of class warfare within the movement? Matt comes from the intellectual "suit and tie" crowd but is not hostile toward the guys who are a bit rough around the edges, I think he believes they have a meaningful role in our movement, as do I.

One thing I think we can all agree on, these guys in Trad Youth sure as hell infuriate the leftists, not saying all should necessarily support them, but I think all WN should respect what they are doing. They have certainly distinguished themselves from most modern Christians, who think the world's ills will all be taken care of by a deity yet to come, these are men of action.
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #19
Robert Ransdell
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Wanted to split up the post I made to make one criticism of the group, my criticism does not have to do with religion, but with tactics.

One criticism that I have of the Trad Youth group is that they really need to start showing some caution and savvy with their public activity, specifically having confrontations with these rag-tag leftist scum. Might be fun at times and it gives our side something to get fired up about, but they have to watch so that they don't come out of one of these confrontations seriously injured or worse. One can throw caution to the wind now and then and probably emerge unscathed and ahead, but I think it is foolish to engage in this kind of mindset all the time.

I myself am a man of action, think I have showed that and encouraged others to emulate my activity and the activity of many others, but you have to be smart about it, especially when your numbers are small. It is one thing to confront the system, to take a radical and public stand against the establishment, against their particularly anti-White figures. We need to have people who will be out there always and often when our race has a grievance with which to advocate for or against.

This may be an action to respond to an a Black on White crime or just educational outreach about Jewish control and power.

However when you are advertising events like they have, with plenty of notice, you also give these leftists, the so called anti-racists, the ability to bring violence and disruption to the equation.

When a force is outnumbered in war, you don't win by conventional means, you win, or at least make progress while staying in the fight, with guerilla tactics, you take the enemy by surprise.

If we could stand to get large numbers to respond to calls to action, calls to join rallies and demonstrations by groups like Trad Youth then it is worth the risk of confrontations with the leftist scum. But when you put out those calls they are often not answered, often only the unwashed opposition (they often don't look like those who look on bathing as a good thing) show up, often willing to use illegal means in trying to silence our message.

I think these Trad Youth guys actually like confronting the leftists, and you know it is a credit to them to a large extent, they have guts, not only Matt but also guys like Thomas Buhls who has been the target of the leftists on the IU campus for a good while. But all it takes is one incident where someone brings a knife or other lethal weapon and you end up seriously hurt or worse. And for what, the masses are not paying any attention to these battles, we need to be taking on the system, we need to be making inroads with our own people, we really stand little chance in making any progress toward those things that matter when we engage in shouting matches or fights with those who are consciously against us, the anti-racists are a fringe element that is looked at with disgust by any and all Whites who we have a chance to capture, most Whites in fact have more in common with us than them.

We can't at this time fight on a equal playing field as these scumbags so why risk coming out on the short end of the stick. The system will always let these scumbags off with a slap on the wrist, if they even arrest them at all for brining violence into the equation, while they will slap our people with long prison sentences if we defend ourselves with force against these types. That is just the way it is these days.

I am not saying we should avoid confrontation with the scum, with the so called anti-racists. We should show no cowardice if they choose to confront us. My point is we should not invite confrontation with them, we don't need to advertise in advance every action we are taking, we can carry out activity without giving them notice and still make progress, progress they can read about and be angry about not knowing about. Trad Youth should coordinate activity with other groups and individuals, still keep holding public activity and demonstrations, just don't advertise it to the world weeks in advance.

Since you don't stand getting many in ways of numbers at this stage anyway (which is not their fault, it is the fault of people who won't get off their butts and answer the call) why try? They should keep momentum building, hold these rallies and events, document them, get the WN online community enthused, and then after 6 months to a year then maybe you can hold a timely and appropriate action and hope they will finally show in large numbers.

Our enemy is the system and the Jews, these anti-racists, to me anyway, are of no consequence. Confrontations with them, even if we come away ahead, really garner little to nothing, just something that the online community can applaud for a few days. We stand to risk losing good people to injury or worse when these confrontations take place and the more it happens the odds are something really bad will result for us.

When the WN community online, or even the White public, see these violent confrontations, I am not sure it helps them shed their timid nature, many of these folks will take "baby steps" as far as coming out in public with their views, they are probably not going to want any part of violent confrontations with a bunch of rag-tag vile dirtbags that throw ballons full of urine and feces.

There are certain events and rallies that can be held where small numbers will not work against us, rising to stand against a brutal non-White on White crime, the White public on the average will be glad to see "at least those guys" stood up for us. But when we are having rallies for "our heritage", rallies not held in response to a specific incident within our ideological purview, we need to have numbers or we look like no one agree with us or are with us, we also are often outnumbered by the scumbags with bandanas over their faces.

I think confronting people like Tim Wise is good, but it is something that probably should be done in stealth. Let the so called anti-racists steam about our side crashing and event he is speaking at and their not knowing it was taking place. As much as I think it is worthwhile to publically condemn people like Wise, it is not something the masses will jump on board with, they see Wise as a freak and are not really personally affected by his rants, ones as they themselves see as "off". They are affected by Black on White crime, not some scumbag talking at colleges. The anti-racist scum on the other hand WILL be inspired to show up to defend a fellow anti-White freak like Wise, do we come out ahead if we are outnumbered by these scumbags?

Do we come out ahead if one of our people are injured or worse? Do we come out ahead if one of our people are arrested for defending themselves and meeting violence with violence? We should be able to take it to these bastards when they start something but we know how crooked and biased this system is. The WN will come away at very least angry about the scumbags being treated with kid gloves by the authorities, this could lead to a righteous feeling of "well I/we will take care of this myself/ourselves next time". That is the right thing, the Aryan thing, to feel, but if you carry out on those feelings then you end up risking taking yourself out of the fight, out of the equation, as the system will use one's anger and frustration with unequal treatment to throw good people in jail for years.

If we can make progress without confrontations with the anti-racists then why not choose the path of least resistance. We need people who will not fear confrontation, but we also need people smart enough and level headed enough to "pick their spots" so to speak.

I take pride in the fact that I have carried out public action after public action, for years, received media coverage time and again, and have had pretty much no contact or conflict with "anti-racists". A small group showed up near the end of the NCH rally back in 2012 but they were thwarted by the barricades that were set up. Of course often confrontations with these scumbags often depend solely on what area of the country the WN is in, not many antifa in my area, if any, of course those WN in large urban areas or near them may have to deal with their nonsense more often.

I think we stand to gain a lot of admiration and support if we can leave the enemy dumbfounded at how we are able to accomplish our goals and leave them clueless at where we will strike next. Being smart about things does not make one a coward.

Of course as conditions change, and as more are willing to stand with people like Heimbach and Buhls, then we can adjust this thinking, when our numbers outrank the anti-racists there still won't be conflict as they will more than likely turn tail and run, but we will go into it with the odds in our favor.

Until that time comes I think the best thing to do is to highlight the positives and hide the negatives. It is a positive that we have a few stalwart people like Heimbach and Buhls (just to name a couple) who are willing to be out there in the public eye, their guts can accomplish a lot and get a lot of attention, and this can be done without giving the anti-racists a heads-up on where they will be and when they will be there. Let those stoners and freaks sleep until 3pm in the afternoon while WN doers are getting things done that they had no idea were even going on.

Many times we don't have numbers - so why highlight the negatives by seeking out confrontations where you are outnumbered?
 
Old October 31st, 2013 #20
Craig Dillard
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Alex,

Quote:
The real rhetorical question is: Is there anything the christian church can do that you apologists will hold it accountable for? The answer is, no.
The Orthodox Church's record on nationalism exceeds any other existing institution you can name. It's not spotless, and its craven position on GD is disappointing; but when you stop holding Orthodoxy accountable for the problems inherent in Catholic and Protestant denominations, you'll see that it's an ideal dancing partner for a racial nationalist vanguard.

It's ideal metapolitically, geopolitically, and socioculturally.

Rather than bother with a Herculean attempt to build up some sort of secular libertarian racialist institution which is also a martial vanguard, why not plug a martial vanguard into a pre-existing institution that already works and is already philosophically compatible with rock solid historical precedent for an identitarian position?

To throw the question back at you, is there anything short of a "My race is my religion!" institution that you would tolerate as a proposed dancing partner?

Quote:
Nationalism for the Orthodox Christian Church is a heresy, it's called phyletism.
Ethnophyletism is neither here nor there. Let the foreigner take communion then deport him when he steps off church property. Problem solved. The distinctly national flavor of contemporary Orthodoxy confirms that the condemnation of ethnophyletism doesn't demand what you're implying that it demands.
 
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