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Old March 6th, 2010 #121
Moose
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
My point is that Christianity is not inherently pro-White, it's doctrinally and dogmatically universalist. But its advocates claim every good thing for it, even though no good thing is logically connected to it. You say it saved Europe. it wasn't the church that saved Europe. White men may have rallied under its banner, but not to save their race. The church always, from day one, allowed jews, greeks, slaves, bums, alcoholics, persians - whatever - to join its ranks. So the church isn't now and never was about race. I don't see what's hard to grasp about that.
Dogmatically, doctrinally. How did some of the negative aspects of Christianity play out in the real world? The Church never went after jews? jews were kicked out of every country in Europe at least once. jews were rooted among us far before Christianity was ever born. Was feudalism the product of the "we're all equal" humanist Christian concept?

Where in the real world, before the Industrial Age or perhaps even up to the 20th century, did these negative concepts so greatly affect the West?

The Church's missionaries converted non-Whites across the globe, but when did non-Whites ever get imported into Europe before the 20th Century? When did the Church allow homosexuality, feminism, usury?

I just don't see it. You're looking at modern problems, modern Christianity's relation to it, and casting out the whole history of our civilization.

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Christianity and the 'Englishtenment' are both wrong. They're competitive and cooperative perversions of imagination and will. It should be obvious that people can kill in the name of Jeboo or Reason, and that just become someone exalts reason or rationality doesn't mean he acts reasonably, any more than Jones is right because he says he acts in the name of right reason. I judge these things against the best world that I believe is possible given the constraints of reality. The false dogmas of the church don't interest, nor does the false universalism pushed by ethnically-interested kikes.
So we just don't acknowledge the significance of anything, regardless of the fact that that thing is the very reason you believe the way you believe. The Enlightenment is probably more so responsible for a direct lineage to the modern concept of liberalism than Christianity. But I respect it's significance in advancing Western Civilization and what I see as positive ideas, such as the idea that every man is a sovereign man, in charge of his own destiny. Your White-Man-ism, your society of adults.



Quote:
Yep.

Japan did, and Whites are certainly not less capable than Japanese.
Japan is an island. Was Japan ever invaded? Did it have dozens of different tribes worshiping different gods, speaking different languages?

The whole island was more or less homogeneous. It was inevitable that it would form an empire/nation-state.



Quote:
This is exactly the lack of imagination characteristic of most whites. You can't imagine things being different than they are - but they could be. The church's false dogmas pushed our race in one direction among many. Well, now we reap the results. I don't like them. I don't think you do either. We didn't have to go this way, and, as history shows, the Christian way was the wrong way.

The whole trend of things is toward individual-specific, customized solutions, and the church is just a crappy one-size-fits-all solution. I don't want to be politically yoked to niggers through taxation for reasons of political equality any more than I want to be yoked to every squatty duskling through spiritual equality.

I deny the church dogma of human spiritual equality.
I think it's over-emphasizing ideas that outside of the priesthood, were almost entirely irrelevant to the social product. For the masses in the community, the Church served as the center of the folkish way. You listened to jibberish in Latin, hung a crucifix on your wall, and observed all the same pagan traditions re-packaged. Gutenberg and Luther would change this, but by then the Church's geo-political influence had formed the basis of a broader civilization encompassing all of Europe's White people.
 
Old March 6th, 2010 #122
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
And you can spare me all that stuff about how Christianity was a jewish plot to destroy the Roman Empire from within. I've read all of it and am quite familiar with it. It's an interesting theory, but that's all it is -- a theory. One theory among many.
That notion has always struck me as absurd. Revilo Oliver seemed to buy-in to this more and more the older he got. Used and manipulated, sure. But the idea presented here posits some sort of jewish super-villain too ridiculous for a comic book.

While there are whackjob rabbis who claim this sort of thing, they're no different than the 20 different terrorist groups who claim credit every time a plane crashes from a mechanical failure.

Oliver comprehended the flaws within Christianity that have contributed to the debacle, and grew to hate it because of its complicity. Of course he was aware of jews' subversion. But he then added 1 + 1 and came up with 3.

I consider this belief the weak point in Oliver's later writings.
 
Old March 6th, 2010 #123
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Old March 6th, 2010 #124
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Christianity certainly didn't make us what we are; It is mainly responsible for dramatically slowing us down in evolution with its INSANE concepts and a nearly 1000 years ban on science...

Technological evolution being exponential, where do you think we'd be now without christianity ? My guess is Star Trek... Or something close to it...
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Old March 6th, 2010 #125
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Originally Posted by Leshrac View Post
Christianity certainly didn't make us what we are; It is mainly responsible for dramatically slowing us down in evolution with its INSANE concepts and a nearly 1000 years ban on science...

Technological evolution being exponential, where do you think we'd be now without christianity ? My guess is Star Trek... Or something close to it...

If we had that kind of genius no religion could have stopped us. Religion per sé is not the problem; it is stupidity.
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Old March 6th, 2010 #126
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Dogmatically, doctrinally. How did some of the negative aspects of Christianity play out in the real world? The Church never went after jews? jews were kicked out of every country in Europe at least once. jews were rooted among us far before Christianity was ever born. Was feudalism the product of the "we're all equal" humanist Christian concept?

Where in the real world, before the Industrial Age or perhaps even up to the 20th century, did these negative concepts so greatly affect the West?

The Church's missionaries converted non-Whites across the globe, but when did non-Whites ever get imported into Europe before the 20th Century? When did the Church allow homosexuality, feminism, usury?

I just don't see it. You're looking at modern problems, modern Christianity's relation to it, and casting out the whole history of our civilization.
This has always been an absurd part of Linder's theories that he simply ignores and I have a lot of respect for most of what Linder has to say and his ideas. I've pointed it out before. He just ignores it, suffering from the same problem Kwans do-they only think of history as being the past sixty to one hundred years.

Modern-day Christianity is unhealthy for Whites. No doubt about that. The idea that it has always been what it is today is nutty. I'm not a Catholic fan, but they were digging out the jews with the Inquisition. Most Americans paid at least lip service to Christianity by showing up for church on Sunday. Those were in the days when niggers didn't live in our areas and were strung up on a rope if they got out of line.
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Old March 6th, 2010 #127
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Originally Posted by Heather Blue View Post
If we had that kind of genius no religion could have stopped us. Religion per sé is not the problem; it is stupidity.
Stupidity and religion work together. Religion NEEDS imbeciles to get authority.

Why do you think the church actively hunted down doctors, scientists, researchers and burned them alive if they wrote what the loons declared "heresy" ?

Intelligent people automatically move from religion to philosophies, from doctrines to ideology. It is particularly demonstrable in children, which are ALL (more or less) afraid of "the devil" when they're little and realize how stupid and irrational it was when their intelligence grows.

Some however continue to fear "the devil" when they grow up, but it's not a matter of intelligence (well to some extent it is), it's a matter of indoctrination.
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Old March 6th, 2010 #128
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Originally Posted by Leshrac View Post
Christianity certainly didn't make us what we are; It is mainly responsible for dramatically slowing us down in evolution with its INSANE concepts and a nearly 1000 years ban on science...
What do you think of this claim?

Quote:
As the driving psychological force of Christianity is guilt and that of Judaism is paranoia, so the motor of Islam is the urge to a dominance-submission hierarchy (found among all social animals). For its first eight centuries Islam was driven purely by conquest, and slaughtered more people than any other ideology before the rise of Communism. However Islam, too, fulfilled an important historical function by bringing the Sankrit numbering system to the West, so that we now call these numerals "Arabic" numbers. (The Graeco-Roman system of using letters to signify numbers made it very difficult for calculating.) This, and Arabic mathematical achievements (cf. our loanwords "algebra" and "algorithm") allowed mathematics to develop in the Christian West among the Schoolmen of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. The latter, who for religious reasons viewed the world as the "Logic" (or "word," Greek logos) of God, began to use the new mathematical tools to investigate what they saw as the divinely logical structure of nature.(42) And therewith the basis of science was laid.
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theed...ve/Jud_Xty.htm
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Old March 6th, 2010 #129
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Leonard Rouse View Post
I consider this belief the weak point in Oliver's later writings.
I was introduced to this theory through an article by Savitri Devi and another one by jew Marcus Eli Ravage, but I'm told it was also hinted at by Nietzsche and by the historian Gibbon, so it had its share of eminent proponents.

Over the years, I've also heard the fall of Rome attributed to:
  • poisoning due to lead plumbing
  • soil depleted of nutrients, killing farming (this one's being pushed by kike Jared Diamond in his latest book, I believe)
  • forcing a progressively worthless fiat currency on the population
  • race-mixing
  • Spengler's theory that civilizations, like organisms, have a finite lifespan
  • barbarian tribes
  • government corruption, poor leadership
  • probably a bunch more that I'm forgetting

The reason for picking one over the other seems ideological more than anything. If I had to choose one as the primary cause, I'd say it was race-mixing. Multiracialism and miscegenation with lower races are the death blow to any civilization.
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Old March 6th, 2010 #130
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http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/j...anapostate.htm

Quote:
When the Roman Emperor Julian came to power, Christianity was less popular than paganism, but when the pagan Julian, known as The Apostate, was killed in battle, it was the end of Roman official acceptance of polytheism.
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Old March 6th, 2010 #131
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Leshrac View Post
It is particularly demonstrable in children, which are ALL (more or less) afraid of "the devil" when they're little and realize how stupid and irrational it was when their intelligence grows.
The Devil is no bogeyman, my friend. He's as real as you or I. Here's proof:

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Old March 6th, 2010 #132
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Race mixing and inflation both involve adulteration. These involve egalitarianism- the new money "equals" the older, high-value money, and the newly darkened gene pool "equals" the older White gene pool. The equals part comes from deliberate lying, or not paying attention.

>>The guy above had a nose job to make himself look even more like a kyke.

Last edited by Rick Ronsavelle; March 6th, 2010 at 07:57 PM. Reason: devil made me do it
 
Old March 7th, 2010 #133
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Originally Posted by Heather Blue View Post
If we had that kind of genius no religion could have stopped us.
A man by the name of Galileo Galilei might disagree with you.

Your beloved Catholic church has a grisly history, Heather. They employed torture devices that would make any modern-day Muslim jihadist recoil in terror. You're delusional if you don't think such implements had a widespread chilling effect on scientific progress.
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Old March 23rd, 2010 #134
Igor Alexander
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
I was introduced to this theory through an article by Savitri Devi and another one by jew Marcus Eli Ravage, but I'm told it was also hinted at by Nietzsche and by the historian Gibbon, so it had its share of eminent proponents.
http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/skeptic.htm

Quote:
[D]id Christianity weaken Rome in a military sense? Did it cause the Empire's downfall and bring about the Dark Ages? Although Gibbon thought so, more recent research has widely discredited this idea. In a recent book, Greg S. Nyquist observes, "Those who ... regard Christianity as responsible for the collapse of Roman Civilization fail to realize that only the Western half of the empire fell. The Eastern half, which was every bit, if not more, Christian than the West, remained a viable political force during the entire period of the Middle Ages. While Western Europe suffered through centuries of abject poverty and feudal anarchy, Byzantium persevered amid a veritable sea of enemies (Nyquist, 2001)."

As with any large-scale historical event, the actual reasons for Rome's fall are complex and numerous.
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Old March 23rd, 2010 #135
Igor Alexander
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Your beloved Catholic church has a grisly history, Heather. They employed torture devices that would make any modern-day Muslim jihadist recoil in terror.
It's true that the guillotine was a less painful way to die than being burned at the stake (though in some cases I hear they were nice enough to strangle you before burning you).

Really, WTF does using torture have to do with religion? You think the atheists of the NKVD didn't torture people, including scientists who didn't accord their findings with party mandates?

The "enlightened" 20th century makes the Middle Ages look like a Caribbean cruise in terms of bloodshed.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; March 23rd, 2010 at 07:20 AM.
 
Old March 23rd, 2010 #136
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
scientific progress
http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/skeptic.htm

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If you want to see the spirit of the Enlightenment, and therefore of scientific rationalism, in its pure, unadulterated form, look at Paris in 1793.

In that year the Jacobin party, in control of the Revolution, outlawed the Bible, closed all churches, and decreed the death penalty for anyone found guilty of practicing Christianity. The cathedral of Notre Dame was stripped of Christian symbols and transformed into a Temple of Reason, in which an actress made up as the Goddess of Reason received obeisance from the assembled mob. The local bishop was forced to declare that he worshipped no God, but only Liberty and Equality. An ass dressed in priestly garments, with the Hebrew Bible and New Testament tied to its tail, was paraded through the streets to its destination - a huge pile of religious books, which were ceremonially burned.

The new "Revolutionary Calendar" removed all references to Christianity, renaming Christmas as "Dog Day," and All-Saints Day as "Goat's-beard Herb Day." Other holidays included Virtue Day, Genius Day, and, of course, Reason Day. The months of the year were renamed for the seasons and harvests – the month of Mist, the month of Frost, the month of Heat; the months of Seed, of Blossom, of Fruit. Even clocks were remanufactured to count out ten hours to each day, with one hundred minutes to each hour – apparently a more logical approach.

Finally a truly rational society was at hand, or so the reformers thought. But at the very time when the Jacobins were outlawing religion, and perhaps not by coincidence, they were also instituting the Terror – the indiscriminate murder of thousands by means of that shiny, new, technologically efficient killing machine, the guillotine.
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Old March 23rd, 2010 #137
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I hope no one would disagree with this:

http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/skeptic.htm

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History is complicated. It is not a simple matter of good and evil, with the forces of good exemplified by reason, and the forces of evil exemplified by mysticism. It is more like a balancing act, in which both the rational and the nonrational aspects of human nature must find some degree of fulfillment in a stable social order. When the balance tilts too far to one side or the other, instability results. An excess of nonrational impulses can engender stagnant tribalism or despotic theocracy. An excessive commitment to reason as the be-all and end-all of life can usher in the chaos and madness of 1793.
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Old March 23rd, 2010 #138
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
I hope no one would disagree with this:

http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/skeptic.htm
you cannot have an excessive commitment to reason. 1793 wasn't about reason, it was about radicalism and distrust of tradition, especially the church. reason and skepticism should form the basis for any sane person's life.
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Old March 23rd, 2010 #139
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
A man by the name of Galileo Galilei might disagree with you.

Your beloved Catholic church has a grisly history, Heather. They employed torture devices that would make any modern-day Muslim jihadist recoil in terror. You're delusional if you don't think such implements had a widespread chilling effect on scientific progress.
 
Old March 23rd, 2010 #140
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Victory usually goes to the best organised.

Just like the networks of castles formed the foundation of the power of the nobles under feudalism, so the network of churches, monasteries and abbeys has formed the foundation of the power of the church.

The nobles gave up their castles and went to live in town, and pretty much disappeared.

The church network was retained, and as long as the church network remains, the churches power will remain.

Seeing is believing, and the power close at hand is always preferable as leader to the unseen power far away.

People always flock to and obey the closest most powerful person or institution when crisis occurs.


The Kevin Carter who photographed the child in the photo at the start of the thread did well to kill himself if he left the child to die.

children are not targets in a struggle.
What did hero Kevin do with the child?

Take it one kilometre to the camp, or take the photo, drive off and leave the kid to die?
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