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Old August 16th, 2008 #1
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Default Hey You Johnny Rebs, Top This !!

All 7 of my male ancestors from one family fought for Dixie during the Civil War. And of the 7, 4 were killed, including my great-great-grandfather, Mathew Addison Council, who died on 14 Dec 1862 in a POW camp at Finns Point, Delaware of wounds he'd received at the Battle of Sharpsburg in July 1862.

All 7 are listed below as posted on the internet at: www.bjhughes.org/warcivil.html


COUNCIL, Albert Carberry 3/22/1833-12/6/1894 s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, Calvin b. c1839 died at war; s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, Dorsey 12/15/1827-4/18/1909 s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, George b. c1841 died at war; s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, Matthew Addison c1835-12/14/1862 Killed in war; s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, Pashal B b. 4/18/1831 died at war; s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

COUNCIL, Robert J 2/23/1846-1922, wounded in war; s/o Kimbrel Willford Council & Ada Yates

My grandmother (Myra Mae Council Allen), her parents, and her 7 brothers and sisters are recorded, by name, at: www.bjhughes.org/council2.html. And by simply backtracking thru the generations recorded there, it was easy to confirm my forefathers going back to John Council who was born in Wedford, England in 1597 and who settled at Isle of Wight, Virginia in the mid 1600's, as well as confirm my 7 Council ancestors, by name, who fought in the civil war.

I therefore and herewith declare myself VNN's King Johnny Reb. Any challengers ??

(A distant female Council cousin living in California (her grandfather and my grandmother are brother and sister) has spent years researching the Council family lineage, though I only became aware of it coupla weeks ago. Previously, I knew virtually nothing about my Council lineage beyond my own grandmother.)
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Last edited by Rounder; August 16th, 2008 at 12:51 PM.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #2
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Default Council Civil War Record

At least 5 of my 7 Council ancestors, including my great-great-grandfather, served with the 5th North Carolina Infantry Regiment. Their names are listed on the rolls of the 5th Regiment at this link:

www.civilwar.nps.gov/cwss/Soldier_Results.cfm

A 6th Council ancestor, Calvin H. Council served with the 35th NC Infantry Regiment and was killed in the civil war. His name is listed on the rolls of the 35th Regiment here:

www.civilwar.nps.gov/cwss/Soldier_Results.cfm

The 5th Regiment fought at the Battle of Bull Run I under Longstreet; In the campaigns of the Army of Northern Virginia from Williamsburg to Cold Harbor; In General Early's Shenandoah Valley Campaign; At Seven Pines during the Seven Days' Battles, At Chancellorsville where they fought with Stonewall Jackson during his famous flanking movement of 21,500 rebels; And at Gettysburg where the 5th Regiment lost more than half their men in casualties. Click the link below for proof:

www.civilwar.nps.gov/cwss/template.cfm

The 5th NC Regiment began the war with more than 1,000 men. They surrendered at the end of the war with "7 officers and 76 men of which 48 were armed."
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Old August 16th, 2008 #3
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One of my ancestors got captured by the South. Do I win?
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #4
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My links in the previous post don't come up, for some reason. But you can google "5th North Carolina Infantry Regiment", and obtain the same information.
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Old August 16th, 2008 #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
One of my ancestors got captured by the South. Do I win?
But mine died in captivity. Did your's ??

Besides, this is a Johnny Reb thread. You can start a "God Damn Yankee Thread", though if you like.
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Old August 16th, 2008 #6
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[Damn it, I got it wrong.]

When Democratic attorney Usher Linder's son Daniel enlisted in the Confederate Army and was captured by Union troops, President Lincoln sought his release. Attorney General Edwin Bates wrote that "the Prest: is anxious to gratify, the father, who is his old friend..."5 In his April 1865 eulogy of Mr. Lincoln, Linder remembered: "Mr. Lincoln did so, without any hesitation, and he took the pains - it was the day before Christmas a year ago, and it made my home happy - to telegraph me of the fact....He said to me: "Your son has just left me with my order to the Secretary of War to administer the oath of allegiance. I send him home to you and his mother."6

In the 1850s, young Dan Linder had been arrested in a shooting. One version of the story held that his father confronted Mr. Lincoln with a rumor that he was to join in the "prosecution of my boy." Mr. Lincoln reported "looked at him with that far-away gaze in his eyes that at times was so marked a feature in his expression, and simply replied, 'Linder do you believe me capable of accepting a retainer to prosecute your son for murder?' and immediately walked away."7

http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/i...26&subjectID=1
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
[Damn it, I got it wrong.]

When Democratic attorney Usher Linder's son Daniel enlisted in the Confederate Army and was captured by Union troops, President Lincoln sought his release. Attorney General Edwin Bates wrote that "the Prest: is anxious to gratify, the father, who is his old friend..."5 In his April 1865 eulogy of Mr. Lincoln, Linder remembered: "Mr. Lincoln did so, without any hesitation, and he took the pains - it was the day before Christmas a year ago, and it made my home happy - to telegraph me of the fact....He said to me: "Your son has just left me with my order to the Secretary of War to administer the oath of allegiance. I send him home to you and his mother."6

In the 1850s, young Dan Linder had been arrested in a shooting. One version of the story held that his father confronted Mr. Lincoln with a rumor that he was to join in the "prosecution of my boy." Mr. Lincoln reported "looked at him with that far-away gaze in his eyes that at times was so marked a feature in his expression, and simply replied, 'Linder do you believe me capable of accepting a retainer to prosecute your son for murder?' and immediately walked away."7

http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/i...26&subjectID=1
Well now Alex, I'm relieved to hear you did have at least one ancestor who fought on the right side. If you can find out which regiment, and the dates of his service, you can learn which battles he fought in. During which, was he captured ??

(Interesting website link. Was your Usher ancestor who opposed Lincoln's 1858 Senate bid, a state legislator or federal ??)
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Old August 16th, 2008 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
Well now Alex, I'm relieved to hear you did have at least one ancestor who fought on the right side. If you can find out which regiment, and the dates of his service, you can learn which battles he fought in. During which, was he captured ??

(Interesting website link. Was your Usher ancestor who opposed Lincoln's 1858 Senate bid, a state legislator or federal ??)
he was state at that time; earlier he was Illinois attorney general - famous case was his battle with Elijah Lovejoy, abolitionist. Lovejoy was inciting niggers and wound up getting lynched - this inflamed the abolitionists back east and perhaps moved the war up a few years. i discussed all this on the last two Radio Istinas. i've got the info on Daniel Linder somewhere, my uncle has written it all up. i dont have it at hand, however.

the irony is, today there is a statue of lovejoy in alton, illinois, and he's the big free-speech martyr. meanwhile, niggers usher warned about are coming up here and shooting up macdonalds at 3:00 am. and colleges back east, like colby in maine, the state lovejoy came from, give free-speech awards in lovejoy's honor while maintaing speech codes that would prevent anyone from pointing out what the niggers liberated by the lovejoys are using their freedom to do.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #9
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two strains of white men:

1) sanctimonious madmen - demand immediate gratification of their whims, such as loosing niggers, styled as higher morality

2) reasonable men - considering the likely consequences of actions, using history to predict that the liberation of the negro will destroy white areas

history shows who's right. but the sanctimonious madmen have the power - now chicago is mostly brown and black, and violent. alton and east st. louis are cancer spots.

Take note that the UNREASONABLE white men won. And that the reasonable white men were willing to use violence to defend their community.

Last edited by Alex Linder; August 16th, 2008 at 04:07 PM.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
I therefore and herewith declare myself VNN's King Johnny Reb. Any challengers ??
Nope. I'm a halfbreed myself, my mother was from the South, my father was from Illinois.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #11
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From my uncle's book, The Linders of Adair County:

"As far as I can tell, 11 Linders fought in the Civil War, all with the Union Army. Two Adair County Linders seem to have had Southern sympathies,[1] but I know of no evidence that they ever actually took up arms for the South.

[...]

[1] William Parcells Linder (I) fled from Kirksville to St. Louis in 1861, apparently for his pro-South views and perhaps actions of some kind (e.g., recruiting). ... John Ferguson Linder, brother of WPL (II), apparently had pro-South leanings but went to Colorado during the Civil War to avoid problems. One non-Adair Co. Linder (among many) who fought for the South was Daniel Linder, son of Usher Ferguson Linder and AHL's first cousin, once removed.

[page 57, Linders of Adair County Missouri, 1838-1981]
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #12
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[p. 58]

The 7th Mo. Vol. Cav. is the unit of most interest, of course, because it had so many Adair Co. Linders in it (seven at one time or another), because AHL [Andrew Hines Linder] was a major in the unit, and because it saw real action during the great effort to drive the Confederate armies out of southwestern Missouri and Arkansas. Unfortunately, no history of the 7th as such has ever been written. This is according to Professor Leslie Anders of Central Missouri St. University, Warrensburg, who is considered a leading expert on Missouri military units during the Civil War. He has, however, kindly recommended certain works that shed light on the 7th's activities. I have not had a chance to look at them all and I list them here in a footnote for future reference.5

[...]

[5] John McElroy's The Fight for Missouri (1909); for Prarie Grove mateiral: Battles and Leaders, vol. III, and Howard Monnett's article in the "Arkansas Historical Quarterly" (1962 volume); for 7th Mo. roles in the Red River Expedition: Ludwell Johnson's The Red River Campaign (1958); for more details on operations in Arkansas: D.Y. Thomas' Arkansas in War and Reconstruction (1926) and T.A. Belser's "Military Operations in Missouri and Arkansas, 1861-1865", a Ph.D. dissertation finished at Vanderbilt in 1958. (See also Britton's The Civil War on the Border, and Prof. March's The Civil War in Missouri; at NMSU [Northeast Missouri State University - now Truman State University] -- good bibliography.)
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #13
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Ha, one of my ancestors BARELY escaped being butchered by Bloody Bill Anderson, who cut a big chunk out of the Adair boys in one particular engagement.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #14
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"WPL (III) [half the males are named either William Parcells Linder or Andrew Hines Linder, for some reason] enlisted in the 39th at Kirksville on Aug. 1, 1864 for one year or the duration of the war. He mustered in on Aug. 24, 1864 at Hannibal, Mo. and served as a private in Co. A under 1st Lieut. Edwin Darrow (and Capt. Smith). His company was composed mainly of raw recruits from Adair Co. badly mounted and badly armed. In Sept., 1864 Co. A and other companies of the 39th "were put on the trail of bushwhackers that were operating in northeast Missouri". (Violette History, page 89.) On Sept. 27, at the "Centralia Massacre", Co. A was practically annihilated by "Bloody Bill" Anderson and his men. WPL (III) escaped (1888 History, page 309). (In one of Dr. P.O. Selby's writings he makes the point that Adair Co. in that one day at Centralia lost half of the number of men killed from Adair Co. during the entire four years of World War II.) WPL (III) was promoted to corporal on Nov. 20, 1864 and mustered out on July 19, 1865, at Benton Barracks, Mo. Descriptive roll information supplised by Mrs. Lorena Tucker, WPL (III)'s granddaughter, shows he was 25 years old (at what point I'm not sure), 5 ft. 7 in. tall, fair complexion, blue eyes, sandy hair, and a farmer.

[p. 70]
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #15
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Bill Howes of Horton, Kan., WPL (II)'s grandson, told me on May 1, 1981, that WPL (II) had once told him about being at the battle of Lone Jack (Aug. 16, 1862) and that he'd gotten an arm wound there. He'd also talked about his uneasiness when the Union troops, the night before, decided to bed down in houses at Lone Jack that were closely surrounded by cornfields. As it turned out the Confederates, who were not thought to be close by, crept up at dawn under cover of the cornfields, and surprised the Union troops. WPL (II) supposedly got his arm wound from a rebel firing from a cornfield.

WPL (II)'s account is consistent with official reports of the battle.[10] The Union forces at Lone Jack consisted of about 800 men and a battery of two cannon, under the command of Maj. Emory S. Foster of the Seventh Mo. Militia Cavalry (not to be confused with the 7th Mo. Vol. Cav.). Among the 800 were detachments from five companies of the 7th Mo. Vol. Cav., presumably including WPL(II). Major Linder was apparently not part of this contingent since Maj. Foster says that no field officers were sent with him, by Gen. Totten's order, "in consequence of a jealousy in regard to rank". Maj. Foster was ordered to march from Lexington, Mo. to join forces at Lone Jack with Col. Warren, and then to attack a large Confederate force somewhere in Jackson County under Hughes and Quantrill. Col. Warren failed to join Foster as planned and at daylight on Aug. 16, 1862 Foster was surprised by a Confederate force about four times the size of ihs own, under Colonels Coffee, Hindman, and Quantrill. "They came upon us under cover of corn fields and ridge fences", according to Capt. Brawner, commanding Company A of the 7th Mo. Vol. Cav. The Union troops fought off this overwhelming force for several hours but finally had to retreat to Lexington, leaving their cannon behind. Maj. Foster was seriously wounded in one of the attempts to retrieve the cannon. About 50 men were killed on each side in the battle and the wounded on each side numbered from 75 to 100. Capt. Brawner's company, assigned to guard the battery, lost two-thirds of its men, killed and wounded.

[p. 69]
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #16
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[Serious d'oh! moment]

In Nov., 1862 at Kirksville, WPL(II) accidentally shot himself through the elbow. My father told me that WPL(II) told him that his pistol dropped from his holster as he was washing his hands. Dad remembers seeing the scars. WPL(II) spent a short time in the 50th Reg't Enrolled Mo. Militia and was relieved from duty Nov. 8, 1862. He was in hospital (presumably at Kirksville) during the winter of 1862-63. On Feb. 7, 1863, by order of Gen. Curtis, he was discharged from the army, returning to farming and stock raising.

[p. 69]
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #17
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"In 1838, he [Usher Linder] resigned as Attorney General, in the wake of a scandal in which he was apparently blameless, and returned to Coles Co. There, in 1844, he was defeated for Congress, but was elected, beginning in 1846, to several terms in the Ill. legislature. In 1858, he was a supporter and close associate of Stephen Douglas in his famous campaign against Abraham Lincoln. (Lincoln tried unsuccessfully to get Douglas' Senate seat.) Usher often spoke at Douglas rallies and was considered quite an orator. In the Fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate, at Charleston, Ill. (Usher's home town), Usher and a cousin, Elisha Linder, were on the platform among the Douglas men. (There is a famous painting, and, I believe, photograph of this debate.) In 1860, he was a delegate to the Democratic Nat. Convention at Charleston, S.C., which nominated Douglas for president. (Usher was a "War Democrat", supporting the Union despite his pro-slavery views.)

[p. 72]
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #18
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4th Lincoln Douglas debate (Charleston) text section:

NEGRO EQUALITY

While I was at hotel to-day an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause] -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people, and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along with out making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this I have never seen to my knowledge a man, woman or child that was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I have heard so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness and that is the case of Judge Douglas' old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter and cheers.] I will also add to the few remarks I have made, (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this, that I do not understand there is any place where an alteration of social and political relations of the negro and white man can be changed except in the State Legislature -- not in the Congress of United States -- and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching , I propose as the best means to prevent it, that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject.

Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get from me an answer to the question whether I am in favor of negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. [Applause.] He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of negro citizenship. [Renewed applause.] This furnishes me an occasion for saying a few words upon the subject. I mentioned in a certain speech of mine which has been printed, that the Supreme Court had decided that a negro could not possibly be made a citizen, and without saying what was my ground of complaint in regard to that, or whether I had any ground of complaint, Judge Douglas has from that thing manufactured nearly everything that he ever says about my disposition to produce an equality between the negroes and white people. [Laughter and applause.] If any one will read my speech, he will find I mentioned that as one of the points decided in the course of the Supreme Court opinions, but I did not state what objection I had to it. But Judge Douglas tells the people what my objection was when I did not tell them myself. [Loud applause and laughter.] Now my own opinion is that the different States have the power to make a negro a citizen under the Constitution of United States if they choose. The Dred Scott decision decides that they have not that power. It the State of Illinois had that power I should be opposed to the exercise of it -- [cries of "good," "good," and applause,] That is all I have to say about it.

Judge Douglas has told you that he heard my speeches north and my speeches south -- that he had heard me at Ottawa and at Freeport in the north, and recently at Jonesboro in the south, and there was a very different cast of sentiment in the speeches made at the different points. I will not charge upon Judge Douglas that he wilfully misrepresents me, but I call upon every fair-minded man to take these speeches and read them, and I dare him to point out any difference between my printed speeches north and south. [Great cheering.] While I am here perhaps I ought to say a word, if I have the time, in regard to the latter portion of the Judge's speech, which was a sort of declamation in reference to my having said I entertained the belief that this government would not endure, half slave and half free. I have said so and I did not say it without what seemed to me to be good reasons. It perhaps would require more time than I have now to set forth these reasons in detail; but let me ask you a few questions. Have we ever had any peace on this slavery question? [No, no.] When are we to have peace upon it if it is kept in the position it now occupies? [Never.] How are we ever to have peace on it? That is an important question. To be sure if we will all stop and allow Judge Douglas and his friends to march on in their present career until they plant the institution all over the nation, here and wherever else our flag waves, and we acquiesce in it, there will be peace. But let me ask Judge Douglas how he is going to get the people to do that? [Applause.] They have been wrangling over this question for at least forty years. This was the cause of the agitation resulting in the Missouri Compromise -- this produced the trouble at the annexation of Texas, in the acquisition of the territory acquired in the Mexican war. Again, this was the trouble which was quieted by the Compromise of 1850, when it was settled "forever," as both the great political parties declared in their National Conventions. That "forever" turned out to be just four years, [laughter] when Judge Douglas himself reopened it. [Immense applause, cries of "hit him again," &c.] When is it likely to come to an end? He introduced the Nebraska bill in 1854 to put another end to the slavery agitation. He promised that it would finish it all up immediately, and he has never made a speech since until he got into a quarrel with the President about the Lecompton Constitution, in which he has not declared that we are just at the end of slavery agitation. But in one speech, I think last winter, he did say that he didn't quite see when the end of the slavery agitation would come. [Laughter and cheers.] Now he tells us again that it is all over, and the people of Kansas have voted down the Lecompton Constitution. How is it over? That was only one of the attempts at putting an end to the slavery agitation -- one of these "final settlements." [Renewed laughter.] Is Kansas in the Union? Has she formed a Constitution that she is likely to come in under? Is not the slavery agitation still an open question in that Territory? Has the voting down of that Constitution put an end to all trouble? Is that more likely to settle it than every one of these previous attempts to settle the slavery agitation? [Cries of "No," "No."] Now at this day in the history of the world we can no more tell where the end of this slavery agitation will be than we can see the end of the world itself. The Nebraska Kansas bill was introduced four years and a half ago, and if the agitation ever comes to an end, we may say we are four years and a half nearer the end. So, too, we can say we are four and a half years nearer the end of the world; and we can just as clearly see the end of the world as we can the end of this agitation. [Applause.] The Kansas settlement did not conclude it. If Kansas should sink to-day and leave a great vacant space in the earth's surface, this vexed question would still be among us. I say then there is no way of putting an end to the slavery agitatio n amongst us but to put it back upon the basis where our fathers placed it, [applause] no way but to keep it out of our new Territories, [renewed applause] to restrict it forever, to the old States where it exists. [Tremendous and prolonged cheering , cries of "That's the doctrine," "Good," "Good," &c.] Then the public mind will rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction. That is one way of putting end to the slavery agitation. [Applause.]

The other way is for us to surrender and let Judge Douglas and his friends have their way and plant slavery all over the States -- cease speaking of it as in any way a wrong -- regard slavery as one of the common matters of property, and speak of negroes as we do of our horses and cattle But while it drives on in its state of progress as it is now driving, and as it has driven for the last five years, I have ventured the opinion, and I say to-day, that we will have no end to slavery agitation until it takes one turn or the other. [Applause.] I do not mean that when it takes a turn towards ultimate extinction it will be in a day, nor in a year, nor in two years. I do not suppose that in the most peaceful way ultimate extinction would occur in less than a hundred years at the least; but that will occur in the best way for both races in God's own good time, I have no doubt. [Applause.] But, my friends, I have used up more of my time than I intend on this point.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #19
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Good they left the crowd response in, gives you a good sense of how different it was when white men ruled their country.
 
Old August 16th, 2008 #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Streed View Post
Nope. I'm a halfbreed myself, my mother was from the South, my father was from Illinois.
Next to the Germans under Hitler, I view Southerners under Lee and Jackson the most noble, courageous, and moral white men in history, for the simple reason true history proves it, not because I'm a southerner. And for the same moral and manly reasons we WNs idolize Hitler's soldiers, we should idolize Lee's rebels.

If white men ever become jew-free, this worldview will be deeply ingrained in the minds of all white youth, north and south. Aryan honesty and honor will demand it.

Northern white men cannot, in honesty, take Germany's side in WWII, and not take the South's side in the Civil War without confessing their own contradiction and counter-productive vanity.
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