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Old September 15th, 2005 #1
ericthered
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Default Looking for fighting discipline

I'd like to start taking some lessons in some form of fighting. I see a lot of ma and pa type karate schools and I suspect they are as AE says, "shite" ( does he mean shit? )

Anyway, I want to seriously get into something with some depth. I searched the area for aikido dojos but none around.

Any suggestions for a particular form would be appreciated.
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Old September 15th, 2005 #2
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Aikido is a lifetime study.
There are many forms of self defense although the street is different from whatever you learn in a gym or dojo.
I would say Muy Thai will get you ready for anything that comes your way.
 
Old September 15th, 2005 #3
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Personally,if I were to seek training, I would start with boxing.Just the footwork alone is superior to many forms.
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Old September 16th, 2005 #4
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I'd go with Brazilian Jui Jitsu. It will still take 95% of people by surprise even though it's main stream in MMA (mixed martial arts).

They have a strong emphasis on ground fighting. The proponents of BJJ state that ~85% of fights end up on the ground where most people are like fish out of water. They claim to teach you to be a "shark" in the water.

In my opinion, its one of the better forms for a smaller man beating a larger man. However, if the larger man is schooled in BJJ, I think the smaller man might have a problem.

I think your average street fighter fancies himself to be a boxer. A BJJ'er should be able to defeat a striker, unless the first punch knocks him out.

At least give it a look.

Go to Sherdog.com. I recall an area there that compares schools of training and the basic win/loss ratio. BJJ faired very high. That takes into account fighters that are going to try to defend against BJJ. The average street fighter isn't going to expect you to break his ankle with an ankle bar or worse.

I'd suggest getting a concealed carry permit if your state allows, the best self defense form of all, IMO
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #5
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Been a while back but somebody posted links to russian "systema". That looked neat to me. I might even spend a few dollars on it if they get it going in my area.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #6
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I see often people asking what is the proper discipline, however there is no style that wil fit everyone. If you are short go for grappling, if you are tall go for striking as tall people with long arms lose leverage up close. If you are super powerful just maul your opponent.

Hang out in a rough place where there is a lot of fighting and watch how others fight and then you will know what works and what doesn’t also what to prepare for. But above all keep it simple, while you are trying to decide which joint lock to use your opponent will be kicking you in the teeth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goy_Wonder
They have a strong emphasis on ground fighting. The proponents of BJJ state that ~85% of fights end up on the ground where most people are like fish out of water. They claim to teach you to be a "shark" in the water.
What about the 15% that don’t? Also what if you are facing more than one opponent? Grappling is a last ditch effort when everything else has failed. A competent teacher or fighter will tell you the last place you want to be is on the ground in a fight. While you are fighting one his buddy will stomp you, I know this from experience. Also the closer you are to your opponent the better chance he has of pulling a knife, fighting rings or whatever and injuring you seriously. BJJ is a style that relies on time and opportunity, in an actual street fight you have about 5 seconds average where a grappling match can take up to 30 minutes or even longer.

Also in my experience I have never see an actual fight go to the ground, the fight was over before it got to that point.

Quote:
I think your average street fighter fancies himself to be a boxer. A BJJ'er should be able to defeat a striker, unless the first punch knocks him out.
Your average street fighter will hit you with what ever is handy and then gouge your eyes right before he hits you in the groin. There are no immediate rules on the street, and your only goal is to live not to win and do a victory dance. All street fighters fight dirty, meaning they will nail you before you get a chance to react, fair play is left on Gunsmoke so more than likely they will knock you out with the first punch.

Quote:
Go to Sherdog.com. I recall an area there that compares schools of training and the basic win/loss ratio.
Also remember this is in a tournament with rules, things change where there are no rules.


Quote:
The average street fighter isn't going to expect you to break his ankle with an ankle bar or worse.
But while you are at hands distance from his ankle your face will be in prime kicking distance from his other foot.
Quote:
I'd suggest getting a concealed carry permit if your state allows, the best self defense form of all, IMO
If you do remember that the court will go against the white person, also if you pull a weapon you will go to jail just the same as if you used it if your opponent doesn’t take it away first. Weapons are not for flashing, because if you pull one and hesitate you will either get it used on your or go to jail.

I wouldn’t advocate carrying a weapon even with a CCW if for no other reason than a white man won’t get a fair shake in court even if he is simply caught with a weapon. Or for no other reason that it must be handy and accessible in less than a second. You have to practice getting to it, because the time you could be unbuckling a knife or whatever you could be smashing your attacker with a nearby piece of driftwood or whatever else is handy.

Actual fighting is an instinct, while martial arts unless a lifetime devotion is only exercise to get you in shape. The best advice is to be ready. Stretch for 15 minutes every morning, then you will be prepared physically more so than your attacker. A person that is a thug usually doesn’t prepare his body as such. And if he does you have evened out the playing field a little bit more.
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Old September 16th, 2005 #7
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The lil slope Bruce Lee credited boxing for 50% of his "JKD",its all in the footwork man.
Weren't the Gracies BJJ?
Definite showmen in manys opinions, Muay Thai is good alternative to boxing IMO.I just do not like kicking higher than the knee in a fight even though I am able.
See if you cant find one this guys outfits.They are baddasses of the highest orderhttp://www.realfighting.com/0102/jonblumi.htm
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Old September 16th, 2005 #8
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May I suggest Combat Conditioning by Matt Furey?No fighting styles in it,but I guarentee you mastery of his workout will have you halfway to beating the crap out of a lot of blackbelts,lol. :cheers:
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Old September 16th, 2005 #9
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EricTheRed, what are you looking for in a fighting style? If you're just looking for a reliable form of self-defense, than I would strongly recommend traditional Jujutsu. BJJ reigns supreme in the ring, but on the street you need to keep on your feet and be prepared for multiple assailants. It's true that Aikido is a lifetime study, meaning it takes much more time and practice just to become decent at it. Jujutsu can be learned much quicker, and shares SOME techniques with Aikido, since they both spring from the same route.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #10
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Just dont try that BJJ on any Shamrocks,lol.
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Old September 16th, 2005 #11
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Have you actually tried it? I was reading his website a couple weeks ago and was curious about the results. If you have done Matt’s system let us know the details and results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
May I suggest Combat Conditioning by Matt Furey?No fighting styles in it,but I guarentee you mastery of his workout will have you halfway to beating the crap out of a lot of blackbelts,lol. :cheers:
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Old September 16th, 2005 #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Just dont try that BJJ on any Shamrocks,lol.
Or the guy on the left


Pictured again on the right




Any fighting style that teaches you to go to the ground on your back will surely get you killed. BJJ only works in a ring with rules and even then they get beaten a lot.
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Old September 16th, 2005 #13
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Shit, if someone wants to loan or copy Matt Furey's books and vids for me, I'd be more than happy to give it a try and report back. Until I see the effectiveness proven, Matt's prices are out of my budget.
I don't think we should recommend any self-training to a MA newbie, anyway.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #14
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EricTheRed, do you have any fighting experience? I mean, do you at least know how to throw a good right cross?
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #15
ericthered
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I wrestled in high school, some good experience there that I have found to be useful. I have done some streetfighting. I'm on the lean side myself and, contrary to popular belief, I find myself better at grappling ('cept for with that 7' - 280lb. bouncer )

I can and do throw a decent punch, I have a good reach, but I'm looking for something along the lines of grappling - manipulation. I feel that it is the most effective form provided the person has the intelligence to study and understand it and the self discipline to train in it. This rules out most of these sub-human life forms shoved into our domain.

I've peeked into some judo, jiu jitsu. I think that is more the direction I'd like to pursue. There is an aikido (club?) in the area where I am going to. They have no instructor but they train regularly and travel to a dojo periodically for instruction and testing.
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Old September 16th, 2005 #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Order
Aikido is a lifetime study.
....
Why am I thinking you are in Illinois? Dont know just guessing. If you were, you know, I studied with Akira Tohei in Chicago, MAC on the north side, and that school has a spin-off in Champaign.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered

I've peeked into some judo, jiu jitsu. I think that is more the direction I'd like to pursue. There is an aikido (club?) in the area where I am going to. They have no instructor but they train regularly and travel to a dojo periodically for instruction and testing.
Right that's what the Champaign group does.

Lots of small but good judo clubs out there. Often they're at the YMCA. My judo instructors were both black. Great teachers, decent guys, Bill Cosby types. I dont regret training with them for a second.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrh8r
Shit, if someone wants to loan or copy Matt Furey's books and vids for me, I'd be more than happy to give it a try and report back. Until I see the effectiveness proven, Matt's prices are out of my budget.
I don't think we should recommend any self-training to a MA newbie, anyway.
absolutely right.

hey, one other piece of advice. dont sign up at a really slick commercial operation. like some of these TKD schools. where they hook you up with a long assed contract. that is total bullshit. monthly basis for payment and dont ever sign up for more than a year. I never agreed to more than three month committment and I did this for over ten years before I stopped due to a serious injury (judo).
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes
absolutely right.

hey, one other piece of advice. dont sign up at a really slick commercial operation. like some of these TKD schools. where they hook you up with a long assed contract. that is total bullshit. monthly basis for payment and dont ever sign up for more than a year. I never agreed to more than three month committment and I did this for over ten years before I stopped due to a serious injury (judo).

I'd say to stay away from TKD, period. Even though it contains a few useful techniques, the proper APPLICATION of these moves are never taught. Also, a lot of instructors are willing to compromise a little on the fees. It never hurts to ask.
 
Old September 16th, 2005 #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrh8r
I'd say to stay away from TKD, period. Even though it contains a few useful techniques, the proper APPLICATION of these moves are never taught. Also, a lot of instructors are willing to compromise a little on the fees. It never hurts to ask.

Yep, when we found out about Dillman, went to some seminars, we were amazed all the grappling in our forms that we had no clue about. You know the old set of TKD forms were mostly the same as the Okinawan karate ones. They never tell you that, but having studied Shorin Ryu as well I can say there's a huge overlap.
 
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